socrates82 Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 Okay. Our team of 2014 - tgrilling. Our team of the last ten months - plodding mercenary keech. Put it to a poll and see how much shite I'm talking.. That pretty much covers the team from January 2017 onwards yes. Until then we were scoring goals, not conceding too many and were competing at the top end of the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 Some of this intensive policing of thoughts and posts is insane. Some of you could really do with a break from all of this. I don't see any policing at all. All I see is people with a wide array of opinions putting forward those opinions and arguing their position. If you can't handle debate like that, then you should opt out and go and do something less demanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 What are the saying then? What's the point of this thread?The original point of this thread was her update on the managerial situation and the departure of Scot Gardiner. No one has claimed on this thread that Budge is on some sort of money making venture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 Correct When will people actually get these facts. I would see people's points if there was ten other credible people in the running to buy the club and save us but there was not. Let's get this straight we should be grateful to Anne Budge not just for us but for our children and future generations. Why are people unable to grasp that you be grateful without idolising someone or not recognising there was something in it for them two? It's not a zero-sum deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldar Hadzimehmedovic Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 I don't see any policing at all. All I see is people with a wide array of opinions putting forward those opinions and arguing their position. If you can't handle debate like that, then you should opt out and go and do something less demanding. I like the cut of your jib. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 Correct. I think redm's attacks on FF here are disgraceful. It's as if she sees FF's info as an attack on Budge when quite clearly it shows she got a good deal by ponying up and we got an even better deal because we still have a club! Wrong, we can't have both got a good deal. Budge is a martyr and we must never ever suggest she may be happy with the deal too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 Why are people unable to grasp that you be grateful without idolising someone or not recognising there was something in it for them two? It's not a zero-sum deal.Correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socrates82 Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 The original point of this thread was her update on the managerial situation and the departure of Scot Gardiner. No one has claimed on this thread that Budge is on some sort of money making venture. What about all the finance figures and subsequent discussion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 I like the cut of your jib. Well you can't have it - I'm very attached to it, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 What about all the finance figures and subsequent discussion?What about them? You can read the thread for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldar Hadzimehmedovic Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 Well you can't have it - I'm very attached to it, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 No one at Hearts whether owner players or fans should be above criticism or questioning. However I am a little disappointed that AB actual buy out is now being looked at in what seems to be an unfavourable light. Simple question is no one else was going to pony up with both cash and business acumen when we needed it. AB and FOH have been fantastic together. Really put the club on a financial and stable level. In my 40 years following this great club it's only been the last 2-3 years that I never had to worry whether the club would be around as we know it or we still be at Tynecastle. I will put up with a couple of indifferent years if it means us pushing on. And we will I have no doubt about this. I agree wholeheartedly with this but someone laying out the financial detail and pointing out Ann didn't take on much risk isn't a negative nor does it detract from her being the only person willing to do it for which I'll be eternally grateful. What she did is more than enough and has ensured our club will flourish, there is no need for the embellishments of it from those giddy about it. She did a great thing, she's since done some daft things. Would I change it or wish for someone else? No, not at all at this moment in time. Analysing something is not tearing it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socrates82 Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 What about them? You can read the thread for yourself. Nevermind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomaso Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 Keep forgetting Levein wanted Cathro before Robbie. Had that happened we would still be in the Championship! A frightening thought!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hueyview Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 So, if we've had Vlad-Sheep to describe his acolytes in the past. What's to be the new term for those who follow Ann Budge blindly? A flock of Budgies? Before we descend further into the slanging match, it'll help those with alternative views towards her, have a nice pet-name for those posters. The No-Budgings? Budgie-rearguard..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 Budgie-rearguard..... An open goal........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i wish jj was my dad Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 A frightening thought!!!!Even although he didn't. Never mind don't let facts get in the way of another pile of bullshit if it helps build up more seethe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 No one at Hearts whether owner players or fans should be above criticism or questioning. However I am a little disappointed that AB actual buy out is now being looked at in what seems to be an unfavourable light. Simple question is no one else was going to pony up with both cash and business acumen when we needed it. AB and FOH have been fantastic together. Really put the club on a financial and stable level. In my 40 years following this great club it's only been the last 2-3 years that I never had to worry whether the club would be around as we know it or we still be at Tynecastle. I will put up with a couple of indifferent years if it means us pushing on. And we will I have no doubt about this. Spot on with everything you have said. Some of the posts have been a disgrace and the fact its now got to the stage where folk are complaining about Ann Budge after everything she has done for us and continuing to do (the new stand), just shows that some people will moan at everything. Yes, things aren't going great on the park but she has hired Levein to do a job, its not her fault that he has made some terrible decisions and mistakes. She has got other people sorting things with the stand, its not her fault that there has been delays. She was the only person out there who was capable of helping us survive, no one else offered the money we needed to dig us out the disgraceful mess that Romanov caused. For all the complaining about Hearts right now, she is the one that shouldn't be criticised and she deserves a lot better than the nonsense and crap thrown her way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwidoug Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 Shite like posting that people are saying Budge is in this for the money? No. That's right. She is in it for the money. She's robbing us blind and we're too stupid to see it. Thank goodness for partyplanners pointing these things put to us. We'll be back to poppy thieving before you can say Petrie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 Doug, socrates82 was stating that, not me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Des Lynam Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 And do people not think that it's likely she may be one or even all of the mysterious 'benefactors' that have appeared recently. And the fact she wants to leave it to mystery is why I love her even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 Not really. We got to semis/finals regularly. Under the Pieman, who rebuilt 3/4s of the stadium, oversaw one of the best Hearts teams in 30 years and is universally detested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 A frightening thought!!!! It was for head of the academy I think But certainly not head coach Not that frightening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 So when and how do we force this thieving bitch out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 So when and how do we force this thieving bitch out? You'd need to contact the boycott organizer section ! Type in Loopy Dan the Potion Man and that should take you right through ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull's-eye Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 So when and how do we force this thieving bitch out? Need to win a few more games 1st, an unbeaten run, that'll learn thum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 Need to win a few more games 1st, an unbeaten run, that'll learn thum. A good win v Motherwell at the weekend should do the trick. Then Daly has a better chance of getting the job. The tidal wave of seethe will wash the entire stadium clean of board, coaches and players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 So when and how do we force this thieving bitch out? Invite her to read KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 Invite her to read KB Nah, the majority on here understand how important she is and support her... other Hearts forums? I hope she never reads them. Some of the downright disgusting things posted about her are horrendous. Truly grim stuff, and by people who have pretty sizeable post counts on here too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 Invite her to read KB She'd be impressed if she uses Facebook as a fans barometer. No one is calling her a thieving bitch though. Not like Jammy T to go out on a limb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 Nah, the majority on here understand how important she is and support her... other Hearts forums? I hope she never reads them. Some of the downright disgusting things posted about her are horrendous. Truly grim stuff, and by people who have pretty sizeable post counts on here too. I have noticed. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 I have noticed. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk For a forum that upsets Mothy so much, he never stops reading it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTweedy Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 When you stand back and look at it in the cold light of day it is quite astonishing. FoH just gifts ?6m and gets a meaningless 20% "voting rights" and after another ?3m or so may if it keeps up the payments gain control. Ann lends ?2.3m, fully refundable, with generous interest, and all secured on the club's assets and gets full control for about 5 years (or indefinitely if FoH doesn't meet its payment obligations). She also grabs an ongoing share of 17.4% at about 1% of the cost FoH is paying per share.It's easy to see where the business brains lay in the FoH/Bidco negotiations. Except Ann's stewardship is beginning to reveal weaknesses not just because of her admitted lack of knowledge of football as a business but her lack of experience in a mass customer-facing business that relies on the goodwill of tens of thousands. Of the three most recent statements one was either a blatant lie or betrayed she didn't know what was going on, and one was an announcement that there will be another announcement next week. The football side and the new stand project are competing for what is the bigger shambles. I feel an AGM question or two coming on. Absolute nonsense. It's been a while since you've rolled out your bitter bullshit over Ann getting paid back (with interest) the loan she put up to save the club! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTweedy Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 interesting stuff to read on here ann is to make 690 grand on a 5 year loan ? does ann take a salary at tynecastle ? whats the value of that No she isn't, and no she doesn't! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTweedy Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 Ann's Investments ?2,400,000 loan to finance the CVA ?100,000 to purchase the UBIG shares ?19,000 to purchase the Quantum shares ?300,000 interest free period on the loan What Ann will take back from the club ?472,000 professional fees - Paid ?110,000 loan arrangement fee - Paid ?24,000 loan interest 2013/2014 - Paid ?172,000 loan interest 2014/15 - Paid ?3,750 Bidco's audit fees 2014/15 - Paid ?159,500 loan interest 2015/16 - Paid ?4,000 Bidco's audit fees 2015/16 - Paid ?300,000 future loan interest during the loan repayment period ?100,000 future share purchase for 75.1% of the club ?2,400,000 future loan repayment Ann's legacy Ownership of 17.4% of the club's shares for a net outlay of ?19,000 Ann has not taken a salary from the club, but her legacy will ensure that she will be well rewarded for her investment. If you're putting the professional and audit fees in the money she's taken back, you've got to include them in the money she's invested too. She only paid out that money in the first place because it was necessary for the setting up and ongoing running of the whole purchase of the club/FoH arrangement. If she hadn't got involved, she'd never have had to pay that money out in the first place. You're painting a completely false picture of her benefiting financially to the tune of almost half a million quid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 If you're putting the professional and audit fees in the money she's taken back, you've got to include them in the money she's invested too. She only paid out that money in the first place because it was necessary for the setting up and ongoing running of the whole purchase of the club/FoH arrangement. If she hadn't got involved, she'd never have had to pay that money out in the first place. You're painting a completely false picture of her benefiting financially to the tune of almost half a million quid! He really isn't. Why does it matter if she does in any case? She deserves it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitch41 Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 Nah, the majority on here understand how important she is and support her... other Hearts forums? I hope she never reads them. Some of the downright disgusting things posted about her are horrendous. Truly grim stuff, and by people who have pretty sizeable post counts on here too. Very true and i hope she doesn't waste her time reading some of the vile things that are said about her. If you disagree with one of her decisions then write to her explaining your point of view and she will get back to you. On forums like this i'd just say keep it civil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 Absolute nonsense. It's been a while since you've rolled out your bitter bullshit over Ann getting paid back (with interest) the loan she put up to save the club!It was an analysis of who got the best out of the Bidco/FoH agreement. You may disagree but it wasn't "bitter bullshit" towards Ann to whom we should all be grateful. And she was perfectly entitled to get the deal she did. People since I posted that have consistently confused facts with "vile things" said about Ann. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTweedy Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 What about the opportunity cost of her ?2.8m investment? Tieing that up in Hearts for six years will have cost her somewhere in the region of ?1m in lost capital gains. So her true investment is at least ?1m, the ?19k and also 6 years full time work for no salary. Correct. For some reason, certain individuals are very keen to portray a scenario where AB will end up having made a very substantial financial gain out of her involvement with Hearts, whereas the reality is that she'll almost certainly be no better off than if she'd left her money in whatever it was invested in, plus she'll have saved the club a huge amount in terms of the salary and other benefits we'd have had to shell out to employ someone else in her position. I can understand some people being concerned about the current position of the club, given the delay to the stand opening, the fact that the last head coach appointment was an utter disaster and the length of time it's taking to replace him, but the criticism of other aspects of her involvement is both ludicrous and baffling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzbomb Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 With Ann Budge = Hearts exist. Without Ann Budge = Hearts dead Tough choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 Sigh. FA and FF. Do you think fans got a "bad deal"? Yes or No. This is for the binary thinkers benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 No she isn't, and no she doesn't!Well on the first the fact is "yes she is". She is getting the same interest which does indeed amount to about ?700k but now over 7 years not 5. In return for FoH gifting another ?3m she made her "personal contribution" of waiving two years interest. Of course the resulting new stand will substantially increase the value of her retained 17.4% interest by more than the ?300,000 deferred interest. Its good to have a financialy acute Chirman/CEO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Des Lynam Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 Very true and i hope she doesn't waste her time reading some of the vile things that are said about her. If you disagree with one of her decisions then write to her explaining your point of view and she will get back to you. On forums like this i'd just say keep it civil. Well said Mitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 Sigh. FA and FF. Do you think fans got a "bad deal"? Yes or No. This is for the binary thinkers benefit.FoH got a good deal. (The fans who are not FoH members got an even better deal.) Ann got a better deal than FoH (in terms of financial reward : FoH roughly minus ?9m, Ann roughly breaking even) but having the ?2.4m or ?2.8m put her in a much stronger negotiation position than FoH and so she deserved to. For those who struggle with more complex thoughts than "Ann is wonderful" the one word answer is NO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 FoH got a good deal. (The fans who are not FoH members got an even better deal.) Ann got a better deal than FoH (in terms of financial reward : FoH roughly minus ?9m, Ann roughly breaking even) but having the ?2.4m or ?2.8m put her in a much stronger negotiation position than FoH and so she deserved to. For those who struggle with more complex thoughts than "Ann is wonderful" the one word answer is NO Thank you. Hopefully someone takes notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTweedy Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 Where was Ann's risk? If FOH failed to meet the obligations her investment was fully secured on Tynecastle and other club assets, and she near enough owned the club outright. Worst case scenario, she shuts down the club and sells the land to a developer. She wouldn't have got the ?21m that Cala was prepared to offer CPR, but I'm sure it would still be worth a lot more than her investment. She'd have then had to live with being the person that shut down the club that she herself, and her daughter, supports. And she, and her entire family, would have had to live with the abuse and vitriol that would no doubt have come along with that. It's ludicrous to suggest that it would have been a simple option for her to just shut the club down and sell the land to get her money back. The financial risk to her was very real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 She'd have then had to live with being the person that shut down the club that she herself, and her daughter, supports. And she, and her entire family, would have had to live with the abuse and vitriol that would no doubt have come along with that. It's ludicrous to suggest that it would have been a simple option for her to just shut the club down and sell the land to get her money back. The financial risk to her was very real. I would say Ann minimised her risk by ensuring there was a critical mass of FoH pledgers before committing to the deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTweedy Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 Not that I'm too fussed about this in any respect but professional fees and loan arrangement fees usually go to those who actually facilitated the legals and the finance i.e. the lawyers (mostly) and whatever banks etc are involved. You can't just move great big chunks of money around, it costs a fortune, as shown above I suppose. These payments aren't some sort of profit or nest egg she just tucked away in a sock under her bed. Isn't it just the case that basically we had an agreement to borrow her money but our/FOH cash is paying for the professional advice required to make it happen? Seems completely fair to me. Correct. I've no idea why FF is so keen to paint a false picture of her making a huge profit from her involvement with the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downunderjambo Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 hi geoff motherwell game on alba are you still using hola as i am having trouble installing it on new computer or are you using a diferent free vpn thanks dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Des Lynam Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 FoH got a good deal. (The fans who are not FoH members got an even better deal.) Ann got a better deal than FoH (in terms of financial reward : FoH roughly minus ?9m, Ann roughly breaking even) but having the ?2.4m or ?2.8m put her in a much stronger negotiation position than FoH and so she deserved to. For those who struggle with more complex thoughts than "Ann is wonderful" the one word answer is NO Complex thoughts haha. All of the information you state is all available in the accounts. Understanding the accounting world might even be some of our jobs Francis Personally I think you have problems with misogyny..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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