Ann Budge update

[McCrae]

If the club starts being successful on the pitch again,  almost no one will care what financial deal AB struck.  

[Ski Nae]

.

[FarmerTweedy]

I was critical of the deal that FOH entered into with Ann from the outset, and I think I'm on record as saying that I would have preferred to have had Ann take ownership of the club privately, rather than this contrived and expensive path to fan ownership.

 

I was also against pushing ahead with the new stand development as we have. There is of course a counter argument that it was an one-off opportunity that we couldn't afford not to take. I see it more as a risky option to take, particularly when we didn't have full control over the final price. I would have preferred to delay the build until we had more reserves and to take more time over the construction.

 

The new stand will eventually pay its own way, but until it does I think the football side of the club will be compromised until that point is reached. I believe that could easily be another five years before any residual stand debt and Ann's loan is repaid in full.

 

I think that some of the risks associated with Ann's plans have manifested themselves over the last few months, such as the on-field performance affecting income, and escalating costs for the stand. We don't know the bottom line at the moment but I suspect that it will look a lot less rosy than it did a year ago.

You have to remember though that she didn't actually want to buy the club, just like numerous other wealthy Hearts fans didn't (and you can be sure there are a significant number of fans who could have afforded to either buy it on their own or as part of a consortium). She stepped up to the plate to provide the FoH with the funds and expertise to get the deal done to save the club. There was nobody else that looked like doing so if she hadn't. You're as well saying you'd rather she hadn't bothered and the club had died, because the money to save it wasn't going to be there if she hadn't got involved.

 

As for the stand, AB herself has said she'd have preferred to wait and not rush into the project, but the council was preparing plans to knock down the old nursery and build a new one in its place, and if they'd done that, it would have been impossible for us to then build something of anything like the size, and with anything like the facilities, of the one we are building. Taking our time and building a new main stand a bit further down the line would only have been an option in a fantasy world that none of us actually inhabit. You even say as much yourself, but seem to struggle to grasp what a 'one-off opportunity' actually means! You might as well complain that when the pitch was relaid a few months ago, we didn't use grass that naturally grows in a maroon colour.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

hi geoff motherwell game on alba are you still using hola as i am having trouble installing it on new computer or are you using a diferent free vpn thanks dave

It isn't live on Alba. Haven't checked if Hearts World is showing it yet or not.

[The Treasurer]

Well on the first the fact is "yes she is". She is getting the same interest which does indeed amount to about ?700k but now over 7 years not 5. In return for FoH gifting another ?3m she made her "personal contribution" of waiving two years interest. Of course the resulting new stand will substantially increase the value of her retained 17.4% interest by more than the ?300,000 deferred interest.

 

Its good to have a financialy acute Chirman/CEO.

FA you keep referring to the "gift" from FoH as if it was something that none of us expected.

I make my monthly DD (or "gift" if you prefer) to ensure that fan ownership takes place. By "gifting" extra monies toward the new stand it means that, when fan ownership is finally achieved, it comes with a fully complete, revenue generating, modern stadium.

That to me is a huge bonus on our initial goal as it removes the burden of what to do above a run-down, money draining facility that would have to be replaced at some stage.

If, as a result of this, it means that AB's investment is going to be worth more than previously, then who cares ?

No-one comes out of this as a loser.

[Don Dan]

Somebody posted a similar post to this earlier.

After having worked hard all your life, made a fortune, owe nobody anything, what would you rather be doing in your retirement?

 

Sailing the Caribbean sipping Prosciutto (other wine types are available) watching beautiful blue sky's and crystal clear seas.

Or

Trying to turn round the fortunes of a failed football club, rebuild the club and complete the construction of a state of the art and much welcomed Stand.

 

Answers on a post card to

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Des Lynam]

I would say Ann minimised her risk by ensuring there was a critical mass of FoH pledgers before committing to the deal.

Not true. Are you aware when Ann was approached to help?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Not true. Are you aware when Ann was approached to help?

Yes.

 

I'm also aware that FoH made a joke shop offer prior to admin occurring.

[Francis Albert]

Complex thoughts haha. All of the information you state is all available in the accounts. Understanding the accounting world might even be some of our jobs Francis

 

Personally I think you have problems with misogyny.....

I am also racist, homophobic, and a Nazi and white supremacist sympathiser. Oh and worst of all old. I kind of envy Ann the "vile abuse" she gets on here.

[Boab]

Nah, the majority on here understand how important she is and support her... other Hearts forums? I hope she never reads them. Some of the downright disgusting things posted about her are horrendous. Truly grim stuff, and by people who have pretty sizeable post counts on here too.

 

She doesn't do social media....that's from the horse's mouth.

 

Probably a wise choice from an, obviously, wise person.

[Francis Albert]

FA you keep referring to the "gift" from FoH as if it was something that none of us expected.

I make my monthly DD (or "gift" if you prefer) to ensure that fan ownership takes place. By "gifting" extra monies toward the new stand it means that, when fan ownership is finally achieved, it comes with a fully complete, revenue generating, modern stadium.

That to me is a huge bonus on our initial goal as it removes the burden of what to do above a run-down, money draining facility that would have to be replaced at some stage.

If, as a result of this, it means that AB's investment is going to be worth more than previously, then who cares ?

No-one comes out of this as a loser.

I use gift (or donation if you prefer) simply to distinguish FoH's money (including Ann's FoH DD) from a loan such as the Ann/Bidco money.

[Thomaso]

Well on the first the fact is "yes she is". She is getting the same interest which does indeed amount to about ?700k but now over 7 years not 5. In return for FoH gifting another ?3m she made her "personal contribution" of waiving two years interest. Of course the resulting new stand will substantially increase the value of her retained 17.4% interest by more than the ?300,000 deferred interest.

 

Its good to have a financialy acute Chirman/CEO.

 

 

Astute?  She is quite cute mind....

[downunderjambo]

It isn't live on Alba. Haven't checked if Hearts World is showing it yet or not.

it is on from 3 am sunday

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

it is on from 3 am sunday

Game kicks off at midnight. If there's no pictures I'll listen to it and head to my scratcher.

[Des Lynam]

I am also racist, homophobic, and a Nazi and white supremacist sympathiser. Oh and worst of all old. I kind of envy Ann the "vile abuse" she gets on here.

 

I understand the need to be critical of those running the club after all we've been through as a support. I just think you're barking horribly up the wrong tree.

[Beast Boy]

She doesn't do social media....that's from the horse's mouth.

 

Probably a wise choice from an, obviously, wise person.

Then she certainly is wise. We have some total scumbags in our support.

[Sarah O]

.

[Jambo1956]

Is Ann Budge not doing for our club what Fergus McCann did for Celtic without the return he made?

And he was praised for saving them and "Scottish Football".

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Is Ann Budge not doing for our club what Fergus McCann did for Celtic without the return he made?

And he was praised for saving them and "Scottish Football".

Yep. It's a good analogy.

[Wilson]

Somebody posted a similar post to this earlier.

After having worked hard all your life, made a fortune, owe nobody anything, what would you rather be doing in your retirement?

 

Sailing the Caribbean sipping Prosciutto (other wine types are available) watching beautiful blue sky's and crystal clear seas.

Or

Trying to turn round the fortunes of a failed football club, rebuild the club and complete the construction of a state of the art and much welcomed Stand.

 

Answers on a post card to

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Sipping prosciutto (ham) ? prosecco maybe

 

pedante.

[Don Dan]

Sipping prosciutto (ham) ? prosecco maybe

 

pedante.

Stuff predictive texting[emoji7]

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Wilson]

Stuff predictive texting[emoji7]

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I thought you far to araldite for that error.

[The People's Chimp]

Somebody posted a similar post to this earlier.

After having worked hard all your life, made a fortune, owe nobody anything, what would you rather be doing in your retirement?

 

Sailing the Caribbean sipping Prosciutto (other wine types are available) watching beautiful blue sky's and crystal clear seas.

Or

Trying to turn round the fortunes of a failed football club, rebuild the club and complete the construction of a state of the art and much welcomed Stand.

 

Answers on a post card to

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

I think she still goes on holiday mate. 

[Beast Boy]

You are obsessed man. You joined and were quickly told to **** off. Let it go.

I particularly liked the post where you called Ann an old ***** and that Levein is probably ****ing her. Pretty immature and pathetic thing to post about the person who saved our club imo. There you go though.

[FarmerTweedy]

I'm not sure why Footballfirst has been attacked in any way, shape or form for his post listing Ann Budge's investment and returns, its actually very interesting for those of us who are less aware of those figures and how that has been structured. Its laid out in such a way that its easy to read and understand. I'm appreciative of him taking the time to do it. He gives a different perspective on the financial matters which is always interesting.

 

Personally I have no issue whatsoever with Ann being well rewarded for her financial investment and indeed, as others have said, the hugely significant time she has put and is putting into Heart of Midlothian Football Club. There is little doubt in my mind that we would not be the club we are without her intervention (along with several others) and her business acumen is serving us well in many many ways. She has worked tirelessly to replace infrastructure that was totally destroyed by the last regime. From what I understand that is an ongoing scenario but I think when she does step back that will be strong and I hope she will ensure the right people are in the correct administrative roles. Given the likely sum of money we would be paying for someone to fulfill the role that she is currently occupying it would seem ridiculous to me if she was not very well compensated in due course given she is doing it pro bono just now.

 

I have absolutely no issue with Ann Budge's compensation and think she has done a fantastic job in rebuilding and reshaping Hearts off the field. The Main Stand development will be a fantastic legacy in terms of a visible testimony to her work. Fingers crossed those she has entrusted to get success on the field step their game up in a similar manner.

His post was certainly easy to read and understand, unfortunately it was also incomplete and highly misleadingly. Whether deliberately so or accidentally, I guess we'll all just have to draw our own conclusions.

[Don Dan]

I think she still goes on holiday mate.

Last week apparently [emoji483]

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[The People's Chimp]

Last week apparently [emoji483]

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

 Well deserved, but a bit of an unfortunate time to go. Will probably have been a less than relaxing break as she'll have been on the phone/email the entire time. 

[Gene Parmesan]

"Sipping prosciutto"

 

[Francis Albert]

I understand the need to be critical of those running the club after all we've been through as a support. I just think you're barking horribly up the wrong tree.

What tree am I barking up? Where on this thread (the seats and her first statement on the delay and head coach threads are a different matter) have I been critical of Ann? A red mist seems to descend over some when Ann's name is not linked with adulation, which certainly seems to impair people's ability to read and/or think.

[Don Dan]

"Sipping prosciutto"

 

Glad you're amused.

[Boab]

"Sipping prosciutto"

 

 

No!

 

Surely not !

 

Deary, deary.....deary me !

[Boab]

Glad you're amused.

Were you yanking our chains there, Dannie ?

[Don Dan]

Were you yanking our chains there, Dannie ?

Not at all.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[downunderjambo]

Game kicks off at midnight. If there's no pictures I'll listen to it and head to my scratcher.

meant to say replayed from 3 AM aus time

[Mike Tyson]

Abuse, if she is really getting any, isn't really called for, but she isn't exempt from criticism, and she has made some dreadful decisions in her tenure.

[Paolo]

What tree am I barking up? Where on this thread (the seats and her first statement on the delay and head coach threads are a different matter) have I been critical of Ann? A red mist seems to descend over some when Ann's name is not linked with adulation, which certainly seems to impair people's ability to read and/or think.

You haven't. Neither has FF.

 

People seem to think that point out Ann had got a pretty good deal out of it, but making it clear they do not object to it because we survived, as giving her vile abuse.

 

They seem to think we should all hail her and pretend she is making no money from the deal at all.

 

The fact is she is, but she deserves it. I don't see why acknowledging this is so upsetting to people.

[FarmerTweedy]

The interest rate is at an historic low and has been since 2008.

Even people with huge amounts of savings are struggling to make any decent money.

5 year bonds where you can't touch it for the entire period are only paying 2.5%

Anyone with huge amounts of savings that doesn't have a very substantial amount of that money in higher risk investments than bonds is an idiot!

[Thomaso]

Anyone with huge amounts of savings that doesn't have a very substantial amount of that money in higher risk investments than bonds is an idiot!

 

 

I do not think her investment in Hearts can ever be termed "high risk"

[Unknown user]

I do not think her investment in Hearts can ever be termed "high risk"

He wasn't talking about that though, he's just saying that rich people aren't having to get by on a mere 2.5% Apr

[ford donald]

Yep. It's a good analogy.

And he still got critisised.

[Mars plastic]

Sipping prosciutto (ham) ? prosecco maybe

 

pedante.

Prosecco - Champers for scaffs

[DH1986]

And he still got critisised.

By idiots who now look a bit silly in hindsight.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Beast Boy]

By idiots who now look a bit silly in hindsight.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They looked glaringly stupid at the time too.

[wavydavy]

Correct. I've no idea why FF is so keen to paint a false picture of her making a huge profit from her involvement with the club.

 

Where do you see that about. I have read his posts on the subject and only see him reporting facts unlike some others.

[redjambo]

You have to remember though that she didn't actually want to buy the club, just like numerous other wealthy Hearts fans didn't (and you can be sure there are a significant number of fans who could have afforded to either buy it on their own or as part of a consortium). She stepped up to the plate to provide the FoH with the funds and expertise to get the deal done to save the club. There was nobody else that looked like doing so if she hadn't. You're as well saying you'd rather she hadn't bothered and the club had died, because the money to save it wasn't going to be there if she hadn't got involved.

 

As for the stand, AB herself has said she'd have preferred to wait and not rush into the project, but the council was preparing plans to knock down the old nursery and build a new one in its place, and if they'd done that, it would have been impossible for us to then build something of anything like the size, and with anything like the facilities, of the one we are building. Taking our time and building a new main stand a bit further down the line would only have been an option in a fantasy world that none of us actually inhabit. You even say as much yourself, but seem to struggle to grasp what a 'one-off opportunity' actually means! You might as well complain that when the pitch was relaid a few months ago, we didn't use grass that naturally grows in a maroon colour.

 

Indeed.

[redjambo]

Abuse, if she is really getting any, isn't really called for, but she isn't exempt from criticism, and she has made some dreadful decisions in her tenure.

 

Ok, let's try a game of put up or shut up. Rather than coming out with a generic criticism, please list those decisions (and make sure you are fairly certain that the decisions in question were hers).

[redjambo]

"Sipping prosciutto"

 

 

Entirely possible with a very good liquidiser and a lot of water.

[Footballfirst]

If you're putting the professional and audit fees in the money she's taken back, you've got to include them in the money she's invested too. She only paid out that money in the first place because it was necessary for the setting up and ongoing running of the whole purchase of the club/FoH arrangement. If she hadn't got involved, she'd never have had to pay that money out in the first place.

 

You're painting a completely false picture of her benefiting financially to the tune of almost half a million quid!

Apologies for not responding earlier, but I've been out all morning.

 

You make a fair point and there is a case for including the professional fees in Ann's investment column.  I did consider it, but chose not to as the transactions (?472k) were at zero cost to Ann.  She in effect engaged lawyers and accountants etc., to carry out due diligence and prepare legal and financial agreements on her behalf, then presented the bill to the club to pay.

 

There was no direct financial benefit to Ann, but their was certainly a cost to the club to help facilitate Ann taking ownership. However I see that financial assistance to gain ownership an indirect benefit to her, hence I included it the column of costs to the club at Ann's behest.

 

Taking the emotional attachment that fans have for their club to one side, Ann effectively bought a distressed business out of administration. She did so with the promise of turning round the business, then selling 75% of it onto FOH five years down the road, subject to FOH putting ?3.8m directly into the business, repaying the ?2.4m loan, paying ?100k for the shares (?6.3m in total), and the club paying her c. ?750k interest on the loan over the period.

 

Two years down the road and Ann's business recovery plan had exceeded all expectations, largely down to higher than expected ST sales and Match Day revenues off the back of on field success and of course FOH cash.  Ann embarked on an an ambitious project to build a new stand. She agreed with FOH that they provide a further ?3m towards funding the stand, but delays the transfer of ownership by 2 years.

 

Three years down the road, on field performance has gone backwards, we have an interim head coach, revenues are perhaps below forecasts for the first time, the stand costs have escalated, the opening date is delayed. This is Ann's first real test as owner.  I'd guess that it is relatively easy to run a business when revenues are buoyant and costs are predictable, but it's a much bigger challenge when there are obstacles to be overcome.

 

Let's say Ann succeeds in resolving the on field issues, revenue streams grow and funding issues are resolved. We get to the transfer of ownership. 

FOH will own 75.1% of a debt free club, with a shiny new stand, for a total investment of ?9.55m  (the initial ?3.8m ended up as ?4.05m, before the stand funding commenced). Ann will have 17.4% of the club for an outlay of ?19k, plus ?300k waived interest, plus her services as CEO/Chairman.

 

If we get to that position, then will I say that it was worth it?  Will I praise Ann's contribution? Will I praise FOH's contribution? ......  Yes, Yes and Yes.

 

On the other hand if on field performance doesn't meet expectations, revenue is sluggish and ongoing funding issues leaves the club in debt, and in need of further support from FOH

 

If we get to that position, then will I say that it was worth it?  Will I praise Ann's contribution? Will I praise FOH's contribution? ......  Yes (as the club has survived) , Only for her first two years, and Yes without a doubt.

[Jammy T]

I do not think her investment in Hearts can ever be termed "high risk"

Are you actually serious?

 

The continual amount of payments being made to FOH by fans at high levels is pretty much unheard of in football

 

Hearts fans could have seen her pony up the money then immediately quit FOH payments.

 

Any money put into a football club is a very high risk and usually lost

 

Which is why when anyone makes anything out of such an investment they are viewed more as a pariah than good or great person.

 

Reference Fergus for proof.

[Boab]

Are you actually serious?

 

The continual amount of payments being made to FOH by fans at high levels is pretty much unheard of in football

 

Hearts fans could have seen her pony up the money then immediately quit FOH payments.

 

Any money put into a football club is a very high risk and usually lost

 

Which is why when anyone makes anything out of such an investment they are viewed more as a pariah than good or great person.

 

Reference Fergus for proof.

 

 

McCann is a perfect example. Look at the demons now. He transformed that club. Any monies he received were fully deserved.