Stand by (a bit longer yet) for an announcement

[willie wallace]

Paul Hartley is scheduled to be on Sportsound tonight.The panel spoke very briefly about the managerial position at Hearts on Monday and one of them mentioned that Hartley would be on the Wednesday show.

 

Wonder if he will pitch up?

 

No Show from Hartley.

[Bazzas right boot]

Doesn't "get" Hearts or know Scottish fitba. Daft suggestion.

 

 

 

 

As goalie, we could do better

Fair doos, it was daft. Never thought it all the way through.

[Swanyl]

Levein has been focusing on spending big and hoping for the best. Look at the amount of youngsters we have released over the past few years

 

How many of those release youngsters have gone on to bigger and better things?

[deejtee]

Nope, I said he needed a good start well in advance of the LC.

 

I also said we had to qualify from the group stages.

 

After that failure I wanted him out.

 

He'd had the summer transfer window and still ****ed it.

 

Clearly a change was needed.

 

I had given him the summer window to build his team and then perform. Perfectly reasonable.

 

Conincidently, cl and Ann cleary had the same thinking.

Except CL having made the appointment could be expected to support Cathro / be pig headed* and despite your belief that money is not a bit tight AB may not have rushed to incur more cost so I don't see them as agreeing with you but in any case they had to admit they were wrong.

 

*select as preferred

[stotty]

 

 

Most people weren't happy to take.

 

Simply untrue. Most people were excited about Cathro coming in. Can't be bothered trawling through posts but it's a fact!

[bernardbresslawsarmchair]

Whilst I think Craig H's post has a lot of merit, is well written and raises numerous good and indeed fair points especially about infrastructure and the Academy there are things that I would dispute.

 

One of those is this notion that we don't have or at least haven't had any money to spend and that is the reason for our shortcomings on the field. I might add Craig hasn't excused how bad we have been but he did suggest that Levein has had his hands tied when it comes to recruitment. I would categorically say that has not been the case and it has been the very poor recruitment of a long list of mediocre, at best, players that see us currently without a Head Coach and with an extremely average squad. Whoever it is that has signed off on these players has made numerous and continual bad decisions and we have wasted hundreds of thousands of pounds on duds. We have had to pay some off, loan out others and see others sit in the stand doing nothing whilst all the time picking up substantial wages we can ill afford. We still have some of them on the staff now and will be paying the price on them for a while yet unless we can pay off and release them too. It is wrong to suggest that we have not had a chance to be much better than we currently are, it is down to our own mistakes that we find ourselves in this position. There has been a distinct lack of quality over quantity which makes no sense at all for a club like Hearts. Better to have a Berra and a Lafferty than half a dozen nonentities even if the 2 are paid the same amount of money as the 6. We have been unbelievably wasteful with our resources.

 

The signing of poor to bad players and a disastrous coaching appointment has had a huge knock on effect as it has resulted in us not achieving the minimum targets which has of course made the financial situation more precarious. Whilst I wholeheartedly agree that Hearts as a club need to have a strong infrastructure and Academy and indeed look forward to us having increased income streams from the new stand the be all and end all of any club, particularly a big club (in Scottish terms) like Hearts is the 1st team. Everything will be judged on that. If they were making decisions in the best interests of the first team now then fans would be far more patient in waiting for the Academy to bear fruit several years down the line but they haven't been and this latest fiasco at appointing a new Head Coach simply frustrates further.

 

We have been asked to take a number of leaps of faith recently, many (including me) were convinced even though we knew it would never work out, to give Cathro more time. Look how that turned out. So many bad decisions on the football front have been made that trust has been eroded away and it is that which Levein and Budge need to win back from some amongst the support. Appointing another novice like Daly will without question be another slap in the face and should that happen he and even moreso Levein will be on a very short leash. If results don't follow all of them are going to be under immediate pressure as there is no justification whatsoever for such an appointment at this time. 

 

Near the end of Craig's post he says that "If we can fill the new stand" well I think this setup has reached a very pivotal moment in how we progress whilst they remain in place. We all want the stand full, all the stands but there has to be a significant upturn in what we are doing on the pitch for that to become a reality. If they make an appointment that inspires and galvanises the dressing room and the support we can kick on but if its the my way or the highway approach, an underwhelming, unimaginative and cheap option than I only forsee issues throughout another wasted season and an inevitable parting of ways into 2018. Levein won't survive another failed novice. "Rome wasn't built in a day" may be true but it was built by people who knew what they were doing. We will soon find out if the people in charge of HMFC are capable of proving they know what they are doing.

Great post good to read some sense in amongst the panic

[JamboX2]

As far as I can see Craig Levein has been trying to implement a system widely used on the continent and his focus has been on creating a successful academy and a modern club structure.

 

If you judge on our current standing, Scottish football is failing dramatically and this reflects on the club situation. I'd guess Levein's object is to raise our game up to a point where Hearts can compete internationally. Given that the SPFL and SFA appear to live in the dark ages and probably still think we use jumpers for goal posts this innovative approach is commendable especially as the old ways would never get Hearts anything but third place. We would be left with the status quo. That is, we couldn't even dream of being remotely successful.

 

People who talk about interfering seem to be missing the fact that the DOF role is widely used abroad and Levein is simply remaining in the background because that's what his job is. Interviews with ex managers, statements by managers and interim managers all point to him not interfering with the role of manager. The heavily prejudiced media lays into any apparent weakness at Hearts because if we keep working at it we may actually be a real threat to the duopoly. They don't want that and when we fall for their mantra they love it even more. As an older bloke I get a bit tired of instant demands for apologies, sackings, explanations comments, updates. In better days, the Pink news and the radio were about all you learned. I couldn?t have told you who was directing Hearts as a kid. Never mind office staff, possible mangers, possible signings, who hated the club, who was a secret rangers fan. I was purely interested in the football on the field.

 

Where the whole thing breaks down is that we have been woeful on the field. Immediate results are what everyone wants. Long term strategies are meaningless when you've just watched a trouncing by Dunfermline or the like.

 

Cathro's appointment didn't work out. It was risk most people were happy to take but sadly it failed. Player recruitment has also been a mixed bag. Both these areas are responsibilities of the DOF. However, in his defense we are simply not rich. Because we are not rich we can't get everything we want and Levein has rightly taken chances on players. It's a speculative approach but it's driven by lack of cash.

 

I do feel that there is a flaw in the theory behind being a 'stepping stone' club and it's simply that a stepping stone is not a fixed structure; it's always transitional so when you get a good player or manager they are always in the process of moving elsewhere and the perception is that they are not concentrating on where they actually are. But then again, that has been the unspoken rule of football for a long time so I think it's more about the emphasis on this aspect of our club.

 

When the new stand with all its facilities comes through and if we can fill it and increase revenue we will be able to sign better players and keep them longer. We will be able to take less risks. We will become more of a prospect for talent. With that we will be more successful.

 

For these reasons Levein should remain where is. Rome wasn't built in a day and the league isn?t won over night.

Ultimately, we've had one poor spell under the new model and the regime which was Cathro. Robbie had us flying in the league. Replacing Sow was always going to be impossible in that first window but we still had third wrapped up by the split.

 

Cathro was howfing as a Head Coach. But one bad transfer window and one awful coach can't be said to mean Levein must go or the model be ripped up.

 

Still... sooner we get two wingers and a goalie the better.

[Rudy T]

Whilst I think Craig H's post has a lot of merit, is well written and raises numerous good and indeed fair points especially about infrastructure and the Academy there are things that I would dispute.

 

One of those is this notion that we don't have or at least haven't had any money to spend and that is the reason for our shortcomings on the field. I might add Craig hasn't excused how bad we have been but he did suggest that Levein has had his hands tied when it comes to recruitment. I would categorically say that has not been the case and it has been the very poor recruitment of a long list of mediocre, at best, players that see us currently without a Head Coach and with an extremely average squad. Whoever it is that has signed off on these players has made numerous and continual bad decisions and we have wasted hundreds of thousands of pounds on duds. We have had to pay some off, loan out others and see others sit in the stand doing nothing whilst all the time picking up substantial wages we can ill afford. We still have some of them on the staff now and will be paying the price on them for a while yet unless we can pay off and release them too. It is wrong to suggest that we have not had a chance to be much better than we currently are, it is down to our own mistakes that we find ourselves in this position. There has been a distinct lack of quality over quantity which makes no sense at all for a club like Hearts. Better to have a Berra and a Lafferty than half a dozen nonentities even if the 2 are paid the same amount of money as the 6. We have been unbelievably wasteful with our resources.

 

The signing of poor to bad players and a disastrous coaching appointment has had a huge knock on effect as it has resulted in us not achieving the minimum targets which has of course made the financial situation more precarious. Whilst I wholeheartedly agree that Hearts as a club need to have a strong infrastructure and Academy and indeed look forward to us having increased income streams from the new stand the be all and end all of any club, particularly a big club (in Scottish terms) like Hearts is the 1st team. Everything will be judged on that. If they were making decisions in the best interests of the first team now then fans would be far more patient in waiting for the Academy to bear fruit several years down the line but they haven't been and this latest fiasco at appointing a new Head Coach simply frustrates further.

 

We have been asked to take a number of leaps of faith recently, many (including me) were convinced even though we knew it would never work out, to give Cathro more time. Look how that turned out. So many bad decisions on the football front have been made that trust has been eroded away and it is that which Levein and Budge need to win back from some amongst the support. Appointing another novice like Daly will without question be another slap in the face and should that happen he and even moreso Levein will be on a very short leash. If results don't follow all of them are going to be under immediate pressure as there is no justification whatsoever for such an appointment at this time.

 

Near the end of Craig's post he says that "If we can fill the new stand" well I think this setup has reached a very pivotal moment in how we progress whilst they remain in place. We all want the stand full, all the stands but there has to be a significant upturn in what we are doing on the pitch for that to become a reality. If they make an appointment that inspires and galvanises the dressing room and the support we can kick on but if its the my way or the highway approach, an underwhelming, unimaginative and cheap option than I only forsee issues throughout another wasted season and an inevitable parting of ways into 2018. Levein won't survive another failed novice. "Rome wasn't built in a day" may be true but it was built by people who knew what they were doing. We will soon find out if the people in charge of HMFC are capable of proving they know what they are doing.

I really like today's calmer more rational Hendricks. I think you've nailed it and in a lot of ways answered your own questions.

 

Ann Budge is a commercial animal and business is business no matter the industry. She was Newall & Budge when she started out....Newall wasn't there too long.

 

While CL may think Daly is right (we don't know that for sure) AB will be crunching numbers, she's left the football advice at the door and started talking to CL like a director who has to be accountable for the overall finances not just his department.

 

She'll be weighing this up as too what will generate the best return...as you point out (rightly) Daly probably doesn't fill Tynie. She'll want an immediate cash hit from the grand opening.

[millano77]

Don't know if true or not but got told today from a friend that Budge has told Levein that pressley and Hartley aren't the men to take the club forward and we're never on the shortlist. Freedman was her main choice but now he's gone to Palace she has 1 person in mind from the people that applied and the press haven't mentioned him. All my friend has told me is that he's foreign and that he will be at Tynie in the next few days for further talks.

[kingantti1874]

Now I'm firmly in the don't think daly is the right man for right now camp.. However whatever the outcome I really like the cut of his job.. Hopefully if he doesn't get the job he stays at the club and maybe it can be his next time round..

 

I woukd choose him before either Pressley or Hartley if those are the only options

[Clerry Jambo]

Most people weren't happy to take.

 

Simply untrue. Most people were excited about Cathro coming in. Can't be bothered trawling through posts but it's a fact!

You're right mate most folk were very keen on Cathro.

 

I remember because I was on hols at the time and remember trying to catch up with the news, press conferences etc etc

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Don't know if true or not but got told today from a friend that Budge has told Levein that pressley and Hartley aren't the men to take the club forward and we're never on the shortlist. Freedman was her main choice but now he's gone to Palace she has 1 person in mind from the people that applied and the press haven't mentioned him. All my friend has told me is that he's foreign and that he will be at Tynie in the next few days for further talks.

Csaba has burst into the betting at 9/1.

 

Ivaylo Petev had a very interesting pedigree. He would be my guess since a random journalist cracked on early.

 

Great posts today.

 

If I were Ann Budge I would have made use of the number of people she will have met since she took over.

 

Her statement mentioned a new 3 year plan. Perhaps time is up for Levein. At least for a while.

[Buffalo Bill]

Robbie had us flying in the league.

 

 

Were we though?

 

 

I know we beat Rangers and won our share of games but I've found the football since returning to the Premiership pretty dull.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Youth academy and development.

 

They could make us money but requires a balancing act.

 

The main problem is if you're any good you will be pillaged.

 

In this day and age we are seeing players walk away on Development fees. So will it really be the answer.

 

Probably not. Not without 2 other things.

 

Investment and a first class coach.

 

Another problem for Scottish club's i believe. The work permit.

 

We are denied a market that would allow us to cheaply attract strong players that many European clubs have ready access to. South America. Without access we are handicapped in Europe.

 

Generating funds from that avenue is critical to growth.

 

Plenty other reasons why growth is difficult but we could be here forevermore

[Escobar PHM]

Most people weren't happy to take.

 

Simply untrue. Most people were excited about Cathro coming in. Can't be bothered trawling through posts but it's a fact!

Levein is a shrewd and clever man with massive experience in many facets of the game. I think as fans and laymen we were more than entitled to trust his judgement on Cathro. And so his confidence and surety on that appointment rubbed off on everyone, despite what many pundits were saying, some of them intelligent pundits, some of them not so.

 

Even Hearts fans who were excited (and you are correct, most were highly supportive of it) about the Cathro appointment must have realised it was a punt and it had risk but we overlooked the risk because we trusted and supported Levein.

 

The appointment went horribly wrong and part of the fall out of that, and other mistakes he made, is Levein has lost the trust and support of a large proportion of the fan base and possibly he is damaged in Ms Budge's eyes. He'll certainly be under scrutiny judging by one or two lines in her statement the other day.

[jockmac]

Whilst I think Craig H's post has a lot of merit, is well written and raises numerous good and indeed fair points especially about infrastructure and the Academy there are things that I would dispute.

 

One of those is this notion that we don't have or at least haven't had any money to spend and that is the reason for our shortcomings on the field. I might add Craig hasn't excused how bad we have been but he did suggest that Levein has had his hands tied when it comes to recruitment. I would categorically say that has not been the case and it has been the very poor recruitment of a long list of mediocre, at best, players that see us currently without a Head Coach and with an extremely average squad. Whoever it is that has signed off on these players has made numerous and continual bad decisions and we have wasted hundreds of thousands of pounds on duds. We have had to pay some off, loan out others and see others sit in the stand doing nothing whilst all the time picking up substantial wages we can ill afford. We still have some of them on the staff now and will be paying the price on them for a while yet unless we can pay off and release them too. It is wrong to suggest that we have not had a chance to be much better than we currently are, it is down to our own mistakes that we find ourselves in this position. There has been a distinct lack of quality over quantity which makes no sense at all for a club like Hearts. Better to have a Berra and a Lafferty than half a dozen nonentities even if the 2 are paid the same amount of money as the 6. We have been unbelievably wasteful with our resources.

 

The signing of poor to bad players and a disastrous coaching appointment has had a huge knock on effect as it has resulted in us not achieving the minimum targets which has of course made the financial situation more precarious. Whilst I wholeheartedly agree that Hearts as a club need to have a strong infrastructure and Academy and indeed look forward to us having increased income streams from the new stand the be all and end all of any club, particularly a big club (in Scottish terms) like Hearts is the 1st team. Everything will be judged on that. If they were making decisions in the best interests of the first team now then fans would be far more patient in waiting for the Academy to bear fruit several years down the line but they haven't been and this latest fiasco at appointing a new Head Coach simply frustrates further.

 

We have been asked to take a number of leaps of faith recently, many (including me) were convinced even though we knew it would never work out, to give Cathro more time. Look how that turned out. So many bad decisions on the football front have been made that trust has been eroded away and it is that which Levein and Budge need to win back from some amongst the support. Appointing another novice like Daly will without question be another slap in the face and should that happen he and even moreso Levein will be on a very short leash. If results don't follow all of them are going to be under immediate pressure as there is no justification whatsoever for such an appointment at this time. 

 

Near the end of Craig's post he says that "If we can fill the new stand" well I think this setup has reached a very pivotal moment in how we progress whilst they remain in place. We all want the stand full, all the stands but there has to be a significant upturn in what we are doing on the pitch for that to become a reality. If they make an appointment that inspires and galvanises the dressing room and the support we can kick on but if its the my way or the highway approach, an underwhelming, unimaginative and cheap option than I only forsee issues throughout another wasted season and an inevitable parting of ways into 2018. Levein won't survive another failed novice. "Rome wasn't built in a day" may be true but it was built by people who knew what they were doing. We will soon find out if the people in charge of HMFC are capable of proving they know what they are doing.

Hendricks, you are bang on again, well thought out and sensible.

[Son Of Anarchy]

Levein is a shrewd and clever man with massive experience in many facets of the game. I think as fans and laymen we were more than entitled to trust his judgement on Cathro. And so his confidence and surety on that appointment rubbed off on everyone, despite what many pundits were saying, some of them intelligent pundits, some of them not so.

 

Even Hearts fans who were excited (and you are correct, most were highly supportive of it) about the Cathro appointment must have realised it was a punt and it had risk but we overlooked the risk because we trusted and supported Levein.

 

The appointment went horribly wrong and part of the fall out of that, and other mistakes he made, is Levein has lost the trust and support of a large proportion of the fan base and possibly he is damaged in Ms Budge's eyes. He'll certainly be under scrutiny judging by one or two lines in her statement the other day.

Good post Pablo and hard to argue with. I'd add the sizeable chunk of our support, myself included, will get much larger if he ***** up again.

[Bridge of Djoum]

Whilst I think Craig H's post has a lot of merit, is well written and raises numerous good and indeed fair points especially about infrastructure and the Academy there are things that I would dispute.

 

One of those is this notion that we don't have or at least haven't had any money to spend and that is the reason for our shortcomings on the field. I might add Craig hasn't excused how bad we have been but he did suggest that Levein has had his hands tied when it comes to recruitment. I would categorically say that has not been the case and it has been the very poor recruitment of a long list of mediocre, at best, players that see us currently without a Head Coach and with an extremely average squad. Whoever it is that has signed off on these players has made numerous and continual bad decisions and we have wasted hundreds of thousands of pounds on duds. We have had to pay some off, loan out others and see others sit in the stand doing nothing whilst all the time picking up substantial wages we can ill afford. We still have some of them on the staff now and will be paying the price on them for a while yet unless we can pay off and release them too. It is wrong to suggest that we have not had a chance to be much better than we currently are, it is down to our own mistakes that we find ourselves in this position. There has been a distinct lack of quality over quantity which makes no sense at all for a club like Hearts. Better to have a Berra and a Lafferty than half a dozen nonentities even if the 2 are paid the same amount of money as the 6. We have been unbelievably wasteful with our resources.

 

The signing of poor to bad players and a disastrous coaching appointment has had a huge knock on effect as it has resulted in us not achieving the minimum targets which has of course made the financial situation more precarious. Whilst I wholeheartedly agree that Hearts as a club need to have a strong infrastructure and Academy and indeed look forward to us having increased income streams from the new stand the be all and end all of any club, particularly a big club (in Scottish terms) like Hearts is the 1st team. Everything will be judged on that. If they were making decisions in the best interests of the first team now then fans would be far more patient in waiting for the Academy to bear fruit several years down the line but they haven't been and this latest fiasco at appointing a new Head Coach simply frustrates further.

 

We have been asked to take a number of leaps of faith recently, many (including me) were convinced even though we knew it would never work out, to give Cathro more time. Look how that turned out. So many bad decisions on the football front have been made that trust has been eroded away and it is that which Levein and Budge need to win back from some amongst the support. Appointing another novice like Daly will without question be another slap in the face and should that happen he and even moreso Levein will be on a very short leash. If results don't follow all of them are going to be under immediate pressure as there is no justification whatsoever for such an appointment at this time. 

 

Near the end of Craig's post he says that "If we can fill the new stand" well I think this setup has reached a very pivotal moment in how we progress whilst they remain in place. We all want the stand full, all the stands but there has to be a significant upturn in what we are doing on the pitch for that to become a reality. If they make an appointment that inspires and galvanises the dressing room and the support we can kick on but if its the my way or the highway approach, an underwhelming, unimaginative and cheap option than I only forsee issues throughout another wasted season and an inevitable parting of ways into 2018. Levein won't survive another failed novice. "Rome wasn't built in a day" may be true but it was built by people who knew what they were doing. We will soon find out if the people in charge of HMFC are capable of proving they know what they are doing.

Yawn.

 

Always negative. Every thread, every subject, you dole this pish out.

 

Just copy and paste, mate, It'll save you so much time.

[CJGJ]

One thing that should not be faulted is the revamp of the academy under Craig Levein's guidance

 

It is  like night and day from 3 years ago

[Hendricks]

Yawn.

 

Always negative. Every thread, every subject, you dole this pish out.

 

Just copy and paste, mate, It'll save you so much time.

Hahaha. Unfortunately you are too thick to read my posts without judging them beforehand. You contribute nothing to this board, whether positive or negative. As I've told you before you can simply block me if it's all to much for you to read a perspective that many share. Except you won't because you'd rather troll me! What a shitey existence you lead! Nice name change btw!

[Viper]

Whilst I think Craig H's post has a lot of merit, is well written and raises numerous good and indeed fair points especially about infrastructure and the Academy there are things that I would dispute.

 

One of those is this notion that we don't have or at least haven't had any money to spend and that is the reason for our shortcomings on the field. I might add Craig hasn't excused how bad we have been but he did suggest that Levein has had his hands tied when it comes to recruitment. I would categorically say that has not been the case and it has been the very poor recruitment of a long list of mediocre, at best, players that see us currently without a Head Coach and with an extremely average squad. Whoever it is that has signed off on these players has made numerous and continual bad decisions and we have wasted hundreds of thousands of pounds on duds. We have had to pay some off, loan out others and see others sit in the stand doing nothing whilst all the time picking up substantial wages we can ill afford. We still have some of them on the staff now and will be paying the price on them for a while yet unless we can pay off and release them too. It is wrong to suggest that we have not had a chance to be much better than we currently are, it is down to our own mistakes that we find ourselves in this position. There has been a distinct lack of quality over quantity which makes no sense at all for a club like Hearts. Better to have a Berra and a Lafferty than half a dozen nonentities even if the 2 are paid the same amount of money as the 6. We have been unbelievably wasteful with our resources.

 

The signing of poor to bad players and a disastrous coaching appointment has had a huge knock on effect as it has resulted in us not achieving the minimum targets which has of course made the financial situation more precarious. Whilst I wholeheartedly agree that Hearts as a club need to have a strong infrastructure and Academy and indeed look forward to us having increased income streams from the new stand the be all and end all of any club, particularly a big club (in Scottish terms) like Hearts is the 1st team. Everything will be judged on that. If they were making decisions in the best interests of the first team now then fans would be far more patient in waiting for the Academy to bear fruit several years down the line but they haven't been and this latest fiasco at appointing a new Head Coach simply frustrates further.

 

We have been asked to take a number of leaps of faith recently, many (including me) were convinced even though we knew it would never work out, to give Cathro more time. Look how that turned out. So many bad decisions on the football front have been made that trust has been eroded away and it is that which Levein and Budge need to win back from some amongst the support. Appointing another novice like Daly will without question be another slap in the face and should that happen he and even moreso Levein will be on a very short leash. If results don't follow all of them are going to be under immediate pressure as there is no justification whatsoever for such an appointment at this time. 

 

Near the end of Craig's post he says that "If we can fill the new stand" well I think this setup has reached a very pivotal moment in how we progress whilst they remain in place. We all want the stand full, all the stands but there has to be a significant upturn in what we are doing on the pitch for that to become a reality. If they make an appointment that inspires and galvanises the dressing room and the support we can kick on but if its the my way or the highway approach, an underwhelming, unimaginative and cheap option than I only forsee issues throughout another wasted season and an inevitable parting of ways into 2018. Levein won't survive another failed novice. "Rome wasn't built in a day" may be true but it was built by people who knew what they were doing. We will soon find out if the people in charge of HMFC are capable of proving they know what they are doing.

best post yet

[RobNox]

No he hasn't. We have been trying to pick up good foreign players because we couldn't afford the over-inflated British market in the first two seasons back. The hope was to get better value for money.

Correct.  Unfortunately, too many who looked like good deals on paper didn't work out on the pitch.  That has led to a ridiculous turnover in players over the past two seasons.

 

Had we concentrated our resources on bringing in 2 or 3 quality signings in each window, with experience of Scottish / British football, even if that meant paying some transfer fees, we would be in a far stronger position by now.  

[Mac80]

One thing that should not be faulted is the revamp of the academy under Craig Levein's guidance

 

 

It is like night and day from 3 years ago

 

This

[JamboX2]

Were we though?

 

 

I know we beat Rangers and won our share of games but I've found the football since returning to the Premiership pretty dull.

Dull at times. But we had spells of doing very well. I always felt he got the balance right.

 

We'd have finished third safely with his team had he remained.

[Winston Ingram]

Correct. Unfortunately, too many who looked like good deals on paper didn't work out on the pitch. That has led to a ridiculous turnover in players over the past two seasons.

 

Had we concentrated our resources on bringing in 2 or 3 quality signings in each window, with experience of Scottish / British football, even if that meant paying some transfer fees, we would be in a far stronger position by now.

Yet we wouldn't have got a million quid for Osman Sow. Swings and roundabouts.

 

The idea of British players is fine but comes at a cost if you want to seriously improve. Aberdeen spent 400,000 on McLean, same on May, and have considerably higher costs than we do.

[Beast Boy]

Correct. Unfortunately, too many who looked like good deals on paper didn't work out on the pitch. That has led to a ridiculous turnover in players over the past two seasons.

 

Had we concentrated our resources on bringing in 2 or 3 quality signings in each window, with experience of Scottish / British football, even if that meant paying some transfer fees, we would be in a far stronger position by now.

In hindsight, yes, perhaps. However, other than half of last season we had players on the books who saw us skoosh the Championship, finish third in our first season back up, and sitting in second in the next. The football was apparently too dire though, so we decided we wanted to rip up the infrastructure just two years in to our recovery and rebuilding process.

[PTBCAL]

One thing that should not be faulted is the revamp of the academy under Craig Levein's guidance

 

It is  like night and day from 3 years ago

Yip a respected youth coach said we were a joke 2 years ago at all levels but now he is raving about our Academy. Really feels we have some outstanding youngsters at the 15-16 age group.

[Rudy T]

Yet we wouldn't have got a million quid for Osman Sow. Swings and roundabouts.

 

The idea of British players is fine but comes at a cost if you want to seriously improve. Aberdeen spent 400,000 on McLean, same on May, and have considerably higher costs than we do.

And for what to finish 2nd! They're out of europe so that dreams gone. I'm delighted we're trying something different. Doing what Aberdeen are doing would give us the same as they have, then factor in Rangers and it's like going back to the pie man days of spending cash to achieve very little. Too many people can't see that though and just want money spent on players so we're a bit better than we are and we might beat Hibs.

[JI TEES]

Whilst I think Craig H's post has a lot of merit, is well written and raises numerous good and indeed fair points especially about infrastructure and the Academy there are things that I would dispute.

 

One of those is this notion that we don't have or at least haven't had any money to spend and that is the reason for our shortcomings on the field. I might add Craig hasn't excused how bad we have been but he did suggest that Levein has had his hands tied when it comes to recruitment. I would categorically say that has not been the case and it has been the very poor recruitment of a long list of mediocre, at best, players that see us currently without a Head Coach and with an extremely average squad. Whoever it is that has signed off on these players has made numerous and continual bad decisions and we have wasted hundreds of thousands of pounds on duds. We have had to pay some off, loan out others and see others sit in the stand doing nothing whilst all the time picking up substantial wages we can ill afford. We still have some of them on the staff now and will be paying the price on them for a while yet unless we can pay off and release them too. It is wrong to suggest that we have not had a chance to be much better than we currently are, it is down to our own mistakes that we find ourselves in this position. There has been a distinct lack of quality over quantity which makes no sense at all for a club like Hearts. Better to have a Berra and a Lafferty than half a dozen nonentities even if the 2 are paid the same amount of money as the 6. We have been unbelievably wasteful with our resources.

 

The signing of poor to bad players and a disastrous coaching appointment has had a huge knock on effect as it has resulted in us not achieving the minimum targets which has of course made the financial situation more precarious. Whilst I wholeheartedly agree that Hearts as a club need to have a strong infrastructure and Academy and indeed look forward to us having increased income streams from the new stand the be all and end all of any club, particularly a big club (in Scottish terms) like Hearts is the 1st team. Everything will be judged on that. If they were making decisions in the best interests of the first team now then fans would be far more patient in waiting for the Academy to bear fruit several years down the line but they haven't been and this latest fiasco at appointing a new Head Coach simply frustrates further.

 

We have been asked to take a number of leaps of faith recently, many (including me) were convinced even though we knew it would never work out, to give Cathro more time. Look how that turned out. So many bad decisions on the football front have been made that trust has been eroded away and it is that which Levein and Budge need to win back from some amongst the support. Appointing another novice like Daly will without question be another slap in the face and should that happen he and even moreso Levein will be on a very short leash. If results don't follow all of them are going to be under immediate pressure as there is no justification whatsoever for such an appointment at this time.

 

Near the end of Craig's post he says that "If we can fill the new stand" well I think this setup has reached a very pivotal moment in how we progress whilst they remain in place. We all want the stand full, all the stands but there has to be a significant upturn in what we are doing on the pitch for that to become a reality. If they make an appointment that inspires and galvanises the dressing room and the support we can kick on but if its the my way or the highway approach, an underwhelming, unimaginative and cheap option than I only forsee issues throughout another wasted season and an inevitable parting of ways into 2018. Levein won't survive another failed novice. "Rome wasn't built in a day" may be true but it was built by people who knew what they were doing. We will soon find out if the people in charge of HMFC are capable of proving they know what they are doing.

Nail on the head..spot on. In terms of the academy I think progress has been made but I agree with each and every one of your points.

[Rudy T]

Nail on the head..spot on. In terms of the academy I think progress has been made but I agree with each and every one of your points.

You have to understand though...The academy is fundamental to the plan to stop us overspending on players and potentially make us a lot more. We're bridging the gap until that happens.

[JI TEES]

You have to understand though...The academy is fundamental to the plan to stop us overspending on players and potentially make us a lot more. We're bridging the gap until that happens.

I get that however the signings we have made in the interim, the long term contracts have by and large failed big time. That falls at the feet of head of recruitment Mr Levein.Your st johnstones, Ross countys, partick have in my opinion recruited players that have made much more of an impact and will be on lower salaries.

[Beast Boy]

I get that however the signings we have made in the interim, the long term contracts have by and large failed big time. That falls at the feet of head of recruitment Mr Levein.Your st johnstones, Ross countys, partick have in my opinion recruited players that have made much more of an impact and will be on lower salaries.

Yet right up until Cathro took over, we were above every single one of those clubs whenever we shared a division with them.

[JI TEES]

Yet right up until Cathro took over, we were above every single one of those clubs whenever we shared a division with them.

Rightly so these clubs are paying a fraction of what we are paying. The point is the strategy of buying players and selling them on and making money isn't happening and at the same time the young players contracts are running down and we are getting nothing for them either. Pre cathro there were issues also I'm sure you would agree the difference bring Paterson wasn't there bailing us out.

[Winston Ingram]

Yet right up until Cathro took over, we were above every single one of those clubs whenever we shared a division with them.

Plus Thistle are currently bottom of the league on zero points. They finished below is last year after we entered about the worst case of freefall ever witnessed. Same for County.

 

The only player from clubs named above who we missed a trick on was Boyce. We are hardly alone there.

 

St Johnstone have no youth development record at all. If we were playing the way they do, you'd have people whining and screaming about dire standards within weeks.

[Beast Boy]

Plus Thistle are currently bottom of the league on zero points. They finished below is last year after we entered about the worst case of freefall ever witnessed. Same for County.

 

The only player from clubs named above who we missed a trick on was Boyce. We are hardly alone there.

 

St Johnstone have no youth development record at all. If we were playing the way they do, you'd have people whining and screaming about dire standards within weeks.

If we scrapped our youth system we'd have more money to spend on players too. I just don't get the backwards thinking of some supporters.

[JI TEES]

Plus Thistle are currently bottom of the league on zero points. They finished below is last year after we entered about the worst case of freefall ever witnessed. Same for County.

 

The only player from clubs named above who we missed a trick on was Boyce. We are hardly alone there.

 

St Johnstone have no youth development record at all. If we were playing the way they do, you'd have people whining and screaming about dire standards within weeks.

Liam Lindsay, kris doolan, chris erskine, ohalloran, davies, Boyce, wetherspoon, would all improve our team.

[Beast Boy]

Rightly so these clubs are paying a fraction of what we are paying. The point is the strategy of buying players and selling them on and making money isn't happening and at the same time the young players contracts are running down and we are getting nothing for them either. Pre cathro there were issues also I'm sure you would agree the difference bring Paterson wasn't there bailing us out.

I'd say it was far more down to losing our entire defence and having to try and rebuild it from scratch. In my humble opinion.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

And for what to finish 2nd! They're out of europe so that dreams gone. I'm delighted we're trying something different. Doing what Aberdeen are doing would give us the same as they have, then factor in Rangers and it's like going back to the pie man days of spending cash to achieve very little. Too many people can't see that though and just want money spent on players so we're a bit better than we are and we might beat Hibs.

No problem with trying something different, except the whole "continuity" angle has been proven to be bullshit.

[Winston Ingram]

Liam Lindsay, kris doolan, chris erskine, ohalloran, davies, Boyce, wetherspoon, would all improve our team.

Perfectly happy with our centre backs. The length Doolan and Erskine have been at Thistle for suggests they aren't that good.

 

Wotherspoon is an average player. O'Halloran went to Rangers and fell of a cliff in an average team.. suggests he is soft.

 

Boyce as stated of course. Although let's see how he does down south.

[Mellor]

Plus Thistle are currently bottom of the league on zero points. They finished below is last year after we entered about the worst case of freefall ever witnessed. Same for County.

 

The only player from clubs named above who we missed a trick on was Boyce. We are hardly alone there.

 

St Johnstone have no youth development record at all. If we were playing the way they do, you'd have people whining and screaming about dire standards within weeks.

 

 

The freefall didn't come about until halfway through the season though, so that rationale doesn't really add up. I'd have to check but I'm pretty certain Thistle were bottom of the table and around 15 points back when they got a 1-1 draw in Cathro's first game. The fact they finished only a couple of points behind by the end of the season shows that 1) they rallied well and 2) had Cathro been in charge for a bit longer they'd have finished above Hearts.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Correct.  Unfortunately, too many who looked like good deals on paper didn't work out on the pitch.  That has led to a ridiculous turnover in players over the past two seasons.

 

Had we concentrated our resources on bringing in 2 or 3 quality signings in each window, with experience of Scottish / British football, even if that meant paying some transfer fees, we would be in a far stronger position by now.  

 

This is correct, however I think the "cheap import" plan was intended to backfill until we started getting real quality players out of the academy.  The long term plan has always been to build from within, but there was a bit of a "lost generation" dating to players that would have signed on with the club during Vlad's later years when he lost interest in the youth setup and left it to rot.

[campbell]

.

[Winston Ingram]

The freefall didn't come about until halfway through the season though, so that rationale doesn't really add up. I'd have to check but I'm pretty certain Thistle were bottom of the table and around 15 points back when they got a 1-1 draw in Cathro's first game. The fact they finished only a couple of points behind by the end of the season shows that 1) they rallied well and 2) had Cathro been in charge for a bit longer they'd have finished above Hearts.

The season finished when the season finished. To suggest Thistle have recruited better than us in the time we have been back in the premier league (including factoring in our worst run imaginable) doesn't stack up.

[Deid Heid]

Every time I feel that I've had enough of this forum, along comes a saviour!

 

Great post!!!

Zactley!

[JI TEES]

The season finished when the season finished. To suggest Thistle have recruited better than us in the time we have been back in the premier league (including factoring in our worst run imaginable) doesn't stack up.

With all due respect Partick should be finishing no where near us in final league standings but they have due to recruiting players on a fraction of the wages we are paying/wasting.

[Winston Ingram]

With all due respect Partick should be finishing no where near us in final league standings but they have due to recruiting players on a fraction of the wages we are paying/wasting.

We had a shocking season and finished fifth. Thistle were hailed to the rafters for their best season in years.. sixth.

 

Hardly suitable evidence we should be taking recruitment lessons from Firhill.

[Fxxx the SPFL]

Perfectly happy with our centre backs. The length Doolan and Erskine have been at Thistle for suggests they aren't that good.

Wotherspoon is an average player. O'Halloran went to Rangers and fell of a cliff in an average team.. suggests he is soft.

Boyce as stated of course. Although let's see how he does down south.

won't see Boyce for a good while sure he picked up a bad injury.

[Rudy T]

No problem with trying something different, except the whole "continuity" angle has been proven to be bullshit.

This was getting discussed earlier and IMO it works but we weren't ready for it. It takes 3 to 4 years to build from scratch what we're trying to achieve. Neither the coaches nor the academy were ready. Whatever people think Neilson over achieved, I suspect the club thought 2 seasons in the championship, a mid table finish in year 3 and then this season a push all with Neilson in charge. Such was his success he moved on quicker than expected. I think Jack Ross was the next in line but whatever happened their scuppered that plan. Cathro appeared to be a good replacement albeit from outwith the club...that went tits up and we're left as we are.

 

I do think Ann Budge has firmly put her commercial head back on, disengaged herself from Hearts the football team and is now making the decision on that basis. Whoever steps in now will be replaced by Daly in time and he will have the academy which he knows well at his disposal. And we should see the continuity we were told about.

[Beast Boy]

This is correct, however I think the "cheap import" plan was intended to backfill until we started getting real quality players out of the academy. The long term plan has always been to build from within, but there was a bit of a "lost generation" dating to players that would have signed on with the club during Vlad's later years when he lost interest in the youth setup and left it to rot.

All of which has been stated right from the off.

[JI TEES]

We had a shocking season and finished fifth. Thistle were hailed to the rafters for their best season in years.. sixth.

 

Hardly suitable evidence we should be taking recruitment lessons from Firhill.

Point being made is that our recruitment sucks, slight improvement this window granted but we still have a lot of work to do to rectify the last 3 Windows. For what it's worth couldn't care less about Partick just an example of what's out there compared to the Martins, Oshiniwas of this world.