Stand by (a bit longer yet) for an announcement

[Son Of Anarchy]

I'm having a fish supper. My choice and mine alone. Independent thinking jambo

[maggieb]

As far as I can see Craig Levein has been trying to implement a system widely used on the continent and his focus has been on creating a successful academy and a modern club structure.

 

If you judge on our current standing, Scottish football is failing dramatically and this reflects on the club situation. I'd guess Levein's object is to raise our game up to a point where Hearts can compete internationally. Given that the SPFL and SFA appear to live in the dark ages and probably still think we use jumpers for goal posts this innovative approach is commendable especially as the old ways would never get Hearts anything but third place. We would be left with the status quo. That is, we couldn't even dream of being remotely successful.

 

People who talk about interfering seem to be missing the fact that the DOF role is widely used abroad and Levein is simply remaining in the background because that's what his job is. Interviews with ex managers, statements by managers and interim managers all point to him not interfering with the role of manager. The heavily prejudiced media lays into any apparent weakness at Hearts because if we keep working at it we may actually be a real threat to the duopoly. They don't want that and when we fall for their mantra they love it even more. As an older bloke I get a bit tired of instant demands for apologies, sackings, explanations comments, updates. In better days, the Pink news and the radio were about all you learned. I couldn?t have told you who was directing Hearts as a kid. Never mind office staff, possible mangers, possible signings, who hated the club, who was a secret rangers fan. I was purely interested in the football on the field.

 

Where the whole thing breaks down is that we have been woeful on the field. Immediate results are what everyone wants. Long term strategies are meaningless when you've just watched a trouncing by Dunfermline or the like.

 

Cathro's appointment didn't work out. It was risk most people were happy to take but sadly it failed. Player recruitment has also been a mixed bag. Both these areas are responsibilities of the DOF. However, in his defense we are simply not rich. Because we are not rich we can't get everything we want and Levein has rightly taken chances on players. It's a speculative approach but it's driven by lack of cash.

 

I do feel that there is a flaw in the theory behind being a 'stepping stone' club and it's simply that a stepping stone is not a fixed structure; it's always transitional so when you get a good player or manager they are always in the process of moving elsewhere and the perception is that they are not concentrating on where they actually are. But then again, that has been the unspoken rule of football for a long time so I think it's more about the emphasis on this aspect of our club.

 

When the new stand with all its facilities comes through and if we can fill it and increase revenue we will be able to sign better players and keep them longer. We will be able to take less risks. We will become more of a prospect for talent. With that we will be more successful.

 

For these reasons Levein should remain where is.  Rome wasn't built in a day and the league isn?t won over night.

bravo craig

[Chuck Berry]

As far as I can see Craig Levein has been trying to implement a system widely used on the continent and his focus has been on creating a successful academy and a modern club structure.

 

If you judge on our current standing, Scottish football is failing dramatically and this reflects on the club situation. I'd guess Levein's object is to raise our game up to a point where Hearts can compete internationally. Given that the SPFL and SFA appear to live in the dark ages and probably still think we use jumpers for goal posts this innovative approach is commendable especially as the old ways would never get Hearts anything but third place. We would be left with the status quo. That is, we couldn't even dream of being remotely successful.

 

People who talk about interfering seem to be missing the fact that the DOF role is widely used abroad and Levein is simply remaining in the background because that's what his job is. Interviews with ex managers, statements by managers and interim managers all point to him not interfering with the role of manager. The heavily prejudiced media lays into any apparent weakness at Hearts because if we keep working at it we may actually be a real threat to the duopoly. They don't want that and when we fall for their mantra they love it even more. As an older bloke I get a bit tired of instant demands for apologies, sackings, explanations comments, updates. In better days, the Pink news and the radio were about all you learned. I couldn?t have told you who was directing Hearts as a kid. Never mind office staff, possible mangers, possible signings, who hated the club, who was a secret rangers fan. I was purely interested in the football on the field.

 

Where the whole thing breaks down is that we have been woeful on the field. Immediate results are what everyone wants. Long term strategies are meaningless when you've just watched a trouncing by Dunfermline or the like.

 

Cathro's appointment didn't work out. It was risk most people were happy to take but sadly it failed. Player recruitment has also been a mixed bag. Both these areas are responsibilities of the DOF. However, in his defense we are simply not rich. Because we are not rich we can't get everything we want and Levein has rightly taken chances on players. It's a speculative approach but it's driven by lack of cash.

 

I do feel that there is a flaw in the theory behind being a 'stepping stone' club and it's simply that a stepping stone is not a fixed structure; it's always transitional so when you get a good player or manager they are always in the process of moving elsewhere and the perception is that they are not concentrating on where they actually are. But then again, that has been the unspoken rule of football for a long time so I think it's more about the emphasis on this aspect of our club.

 

When the new stand with all its facilities comes through and if we can fill it and increase revenue we will be able to sign better players and keep them longer. We will be able to take less risks. We will become more of a prospect for talent. With that we will be more successful.

 

For these reasons Levein should remain where is.  Rome wasn't built in a day and the league isn?t won over night.

 

Good post and many fair points.

 

My opinion is that Levein's "continental system" simply wont work in Scottish football.. Developing our own production line of coaches is deeply flawed, talented coaches wont stick around waiting for a chance at the first team job, they will be off elsewhere and when the head guy gets the chop or leaves, we're left in exactly the same position as we are in now.

 

I'd also question his player recruitment policy which has cost the club a lot of money in pay-offs (inc Cathro), if someone carried the can for the new stand seat debacle and it cost them their job, at what point does Levein feel the heat for his decisions which have also cost the club valuable resource which as you rightly point out we cannot afford (and are probably hurting us now in being able to afford a quality replacement for Cathro)

 

His talent is undoubtedly lies on the Academy/Youth side, that is where his focus should be and not on a DoF role which involves first team matters. The evidence is there that he's not making a very good fist of it, and given we're not a very rich club, we do not need a DoF role in the first place, it's a concept Levein has sold Budge and given Budge's understandable ignorance of how a club runs, she bought it.  She now understands a lot more, and hopefully the changes she alludes to in her statement means we get an experienced guy as manager and the DoF role is made redundant.

 

We need to wake up to the fact that we are never going to challenge Celtic (or Rangers if they ever get their act together) for the title, what Aberdeen have achieved over the last couple of seasons is as good as it will get for any diddy Scottish club. We'll win the odd cup, maybe the occasional runners-up spot, but that will be it. That is how it has always ever been and sadly, nothing but ???? will ever change that.

 

Get Levein running the youth side of things, get an experienced management team in place to get the first team performing, and let's just get on with it.

[i wish jj was my dad]

Are suggesting that we are not skint?

 

Are you suggesting that Craig Levein is not a problem?

I don't know how skint we are.  I doubt the sheriff officers are at the front door though. If we were JW would have been on his way a while ago.

 

The problem if there is one with CL is that a noisy contingent of people don't like him and the more stories they make up the more dafties believe it.  I actually think we will get to the stage where he will have to fall on his sword no matter how good a job his boss thinks he has done just to avoid this huge unrest somebody invented affecting FOH subs and ticket sales.  

[i wish jj was my dad]

As far as I can see Craig Levein has been trying to implement a system widely used on the continent and his focus has been on creating a successful academy and a modern club structure.

 

If you judge on our current standing, Scottish football is failing dramatically and this reflects on the club situation. I'd guess Levein's object is to raise our game up to a point where Hearts can compete internationally. Given that the SPFL and SFA appear to live in the dark ages and probably still think we use jumpers for goal posts this innovative approach is commendable especially as the old ways would never get Hearts anything but third place. We would be left with the status quo. That is, we couldn't even dream of being remotely successful.

 

People who talk about interfering seem to be missing the fact that the DOF role is widely used abroad and Levein is simply remaining in the background because that's what his job is. Interviews with ex managers, statements by managers and interim managers all point to him not interfering with the role of manager. The heavily prejudiced media lays into any apparent weakness at Hearts because if we keep working at it we may actually be a real threat to the duopoly. They don't want that and when we fall for their mantra they love it even more. As an older bloke I get a bit tired of instant demands for apologies, sackings, explanations comments, updates. In better days, the Pink news and the radio were about all you learned. I couldn?t have told you who was directing Hearts as a kid. Never mind office staff, possible mangers, possible signings, who hated the club, who was a secret rangers fan. I was purely interested in the football on the field.

 

Where the whole thing breaks down is that we have been woeful on the field. Immediate results are what everyone wants. Long term strategies are meaningless when you've just watched a trouncing by Dunfermline or the like.

 

Cathro's appointment didn't work out. It was risk most people were happy to take but sadly it failed. Player recruitment has also been a mixed bag. Both these areas are responsibilities of the DOF. However, in his defense we are simply not rich. Because we are not rich we can't get everything we want and Levein has rightly taken chances on players. It's a speculative approach but it's driven by lack of cash.

 

I do feel that there is a flaw in the theory behind being a 'stepping stone' club and it's simply that a stepping stone is not a fixed structure; it's always transitional so when you get a good player or manager they are always in the process of moving elsewhere and the perception is that they are not concentrating on where they actually are. But then again, that has been the unspoken rule of football for a long time so I think it's more about the emphasis on this aspect of our club.

 

When the new stand with all its facilities comes through and if we can fill it and increase revenue we will be able to sign better players and keep them longer. We will be able to take less risks. We will become more of a prospect for talent. With that we will be more successful.

 

For these reasons Levein should remain where is.  Rome wasn't built in a day and the league isn?t won over night.

Great post.

[Deevers]

As far as I can see Craig Levein has been trying to implement a system widely used on the continent and his focus has been on creating a successful academy and a modern club structure.

 

If you judge on our current standing, Scottish football is failing dramatically and this reflects on the club situation. I'd guess Levein's object is to raise our game up to a point where Hearts can compete internationally. Given that the SPFL and SFA appear to live in the dark ages and probably still think we use jumpers for goal posts this innovative approach is commendable especially as the old ways would never get Hearts anything but third place. We would be left with the status quo. That is, we couldn't even dream of being remotely successful.

 

People who talk about interfering seem to be missing the fact that the DOF role is widely used abroad and Levein is simply remaining in the background because that's what his job is. Interviews with ex managers, statements by managers and interim managers all point to him not interfering with the role of manager. The heavily prejudiced media lays into any apparent weakness at Hearts because if we keep working at it we may actually be a real threat to the duopoly. They don't want that and when we fall for their mantra they love it even more. As an older bloke I get a bit tired of instant demands for apologies, sackings, explanations comments, updates. In better days, the Pink news and the radio were about all you learned. I couldn?t have told you who was directing Hearts as a kid. Never mind office staff, possible mangers, possible signings, who hated the club, who was a secret rangers fan. I was purely interested in the football on the field.

 

Where the whole thing breaks down is that we have been woeful on the field. Immediate results are what everyone wants. Long term strategies are meaningless when you've just watched a trouncing by Dunfermline or the like.

 

Cathro's appointment didn't work out. It was risk most people were happy to take but sadly it failed. Player recruitment has also been a mixed bag. Both these areas are responsibilities of the DOF. However, in his defense we are simply not rich. Because we are not rich we can't get everything we want and Levein has rightly taken chances on players. It's a speculative approach but it's driven by lack of cash.

 

I do feel that there is a flaw in the theory behind being a 'stepping stone' club and it's simply that a stepping stone is not a fixed structure; it's always transitional so when you get a good player or manager they are always in the process of moving elsewhere and the perception is that they are not concentrating on where they actually are. But then again, that has been the unspoken rule of football for a long time so I think it's more about the emphasis on this aspect of our club.

 

When the new stand with all its facilities comes through and if we can fill it and increase revenue we will be able to sign better players and keep them longer. We will be able to take less risks. We will become more of a prospect for talent. With that we will be more successful.

 

For these reasons Levein should remain where is.  Rome wasn't built in a day and the league isn?t won over night.

 

Far too much like common sense for this place.

[soonbe110]

Most people weren't happy to take.

Interesting point. I recall on here something like 80%+ were happy with Cathro's appointment and the clear risk inherent in it. Funny how we forget the things we got wrong and blame others for them.

I was very much in favour of giving Cathro the benefit of the doubt and am disappointed that he failed. I think Craig Herbertsons post is the best on here on the subject in a long time and agree with virtually all his points. Building Rome in a day is something that's still beyond everyone, even Craig Levein and Ann Budge.

[willie wallace]

Paul Hartley is scheduled to be on Sportsound tonight.The panel spoke very briefly about the managerial position at Hearts on Monday and one of them mentioned that Hartley would be on the Wednesday show.

 

Wonder if he will pitch up?

[kila]

Good post and many fair points.

 

My opinion is that Levein's "continental system" simply wont work in Scottish football.. Developing our own production line of coaches is deeply flawed, talented coaches wont stick around waiting for a chance at the first team job, they will be off elsewhere and when the head guy gets the chop or leaves, we're left in exactly the same position as we are in now.

 

I'd also question his player recruitment policy which has cost the club a lot of money in pay-offs (inc Cathro), if someone carried the can for the new stand seat debacle and it cost them their job, at what point does Levein feel the heat for his decisions which have also cost the club valuable resource which as you rightly point out we cannot afford (and are probably hurting us now in being able to afford a quality replacement for Cathro)

 

His talent is undoubtedly lies on the Academy/Youth side, that is where his focus should be and not on a DoF role which involves first team matters. The evidence is there that he's not making a very good fist of it, and given we're not a very rich club, we do not need a DoF role in the first place, it's a concept Levein has sold Budge and given Budge's understandable ignorance of how a club runs, she bought it.  She now understands a lot more, and hopefully the changes she alludes to in her statement means we get an experienced guy as manager and the DoF role is made redundant.

 

We need to wake up to the fact that we are never going to challenge Celtic (or Rangers if they ever get their act together) for the title, what Aberdeen have achieved over the last couple of seasons is as good as it will get for any diddy Scottish club. We'll win the odd cup, maybe the occasional runners-up spot, but that will be it. That is how it has always ever been and sadly, nothing but ???? will ever change that.

 

Get Levein running the youth side of things, get an experienced management team in place to get the first team performing, and let's just get on with it.

 

I think the DoF role is good and should stay

 

Just because Levein maybe has made a bit of a mess of it in relation to first team affairs doesn't mean the role itself is flawed. E.g. While Levein was sorting contracts out, academy stuff etc etc, the head coach/manager was free to focus on first time affairs.

[Mister Dee]

As far as I can see Craig Levein has been trying to implement a system widely used on the continent and his focus has been on creating a successful academy and a modern club structure.

 

If you judge on our current standing, Scottish football is failing dramatically and this reflects on the club situation. I'd guess Levein's object is to raise our game up to a point where Hearts can compete internationally. Given that the SPFL and SFA appear to live in the dark ages and probably still think we use jumpers for goal posts this innovative approach is commendable especially as the old ways would never get Hearts anything but third place. We would be left with the status quo. That is, we couldn't even dream of being remotely successful.

 

People who talk about interfering seem to be missing the fact that the DOF role is widely used abroad and Levein is simply remaining in the background because that's what his job is. Interviews with ex managers, statements by managers and interim managers all point to him not interfering with the role of manager. The heavily prejudiced media lays into any apparent weakness at Hearts because if we keep working at it we may actually be a real threat to the duopoly. They don't want that and when we fall for their mantra they love it even more. As an older bloke I get a bit tired of instant demands for apologies, sackings, explanations comments, updates. In better days, the Pink news and the radio were about all you learned. I couldn?t have told you who was directing Hearts as a kid. Never mind office staff, possible mangers, possible signings, who hated the club, who was a secret rangers fan. I was purely interested in the football on the field.

 

Where the whole thing breaks down is that we have been woeful on the field. Immediate results are what everyone wants. Long term strategies are meaningless when you've just watched a trouncing by Dunfermline or the like.

 

Cathro's appointment didn't work out. It was risk most people were happy to take but sadly it failed. Player recruitment has also been a mixed bag. Both these areas are responsibilities of the DOF. However, in his defense we are simply not rich. Because we are not rich we can't get everything we want and Levein has rightly taken chances on players. It's a speculative approach but it's driven by lack of cash.

 

I do feel that there is a flaw in the theory behind being a 'stepping stone' club and it's simply that a stepping stone is not a fixed structure; it's always transitional so when you get a good player or manager they are always in the process of moving elsewhere and the perception is that they are not concentrating on where they actually are. But then again, that has been the unspoken rule of football for a long time so I think it's more about the emphasis on this aspect of our club.

 

When the new stand with all its facilities comes through and if we can fill it and increase revenue we will be able to sign better players and keep them longer. We will be able to take less risks. We will become more of a prospect for talent. With that we will be more successful.

 

For these reasons Levein should remain where is.  Rome wasn't built in a day and the league isn?t won over night.

Nicely put.

I would also add that Ann Budge currently owns the Club, & makes the decisions.

If supporters don't like it, they should vote with their feet -not cancelling FOH subscriptions, that would prolong Budges ownership.

 

This current chapter of dissatisfaction does beg the question, how will we cope without Budges leadership?

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

The problem with justifying Cathro.

 

Levein had known him for years. He had to know and if he didn't, then that's a worse indictment still, that Cathro would struggle to convince his players by leading a dressing room.

 

For us looking in, we didn't know the bloke and it was exciting for all of 2 weeks. By Aberdeen at New Year he had destroyed what at least Neilson had left, a team of battlers.

 

At least we have that back. I was quite excited when I posted this topic on Saturday, not really any longer.

 

Through the day I have promoted Daly as uppermost on my wish list. He will be his own man.

 

Our club is not yet ready to take anyone on for serious honours, the last 14 months have negated any progress on the pitch.

[Nookie Bear]

The problem with justifying Cathro.

 

Levein had known him for years. He had to know and if he didn't, then that's a worse indictment still, that Cathro would struggle to convince his players by leading a dressing room.

 

For us looking in, we didn't know the bloke and it was exciting for all of 2 weeks. By Aberdeen at New Year he had destroyed what at least Neilson had left, a team of battlers.

 

At least we have that back. I was quite excited when I posted this topic on Saturday, not really any longer.

 

Through the day I have promoted Daly as uppermost on my wish list. He will be his own man.

 

Our club is not yet ready to take anyone on for serious honours, the last 14 months have negated any progress on the pitch.

 

You mean Daly becomes a 'bridge' manager until we perhaps can get O'Neill next summer?

[Taffin]

Nicely put.

I would also add that Ann Budge currently owns the Club, & makes the decisions.

If supporters don't like it, they should vote with their feet -not cancelling FOH subscriptions, that would prolong Budges ownership.

 

This current chapter of dissatisfaction does beg the question, how will we cope without Budges leadership?

 

 

Just dandy I would imagine. As long as we replace her with someone who knows what they are doing.

[Chuck Berry]

I think the DoF role is good and should stay

 

Just because Levein maybe has made a bit of a mess of it in relation to first team affairs doesn't mean the role itself is flawed. E.g. While Levein was sorting contracts out, academy stuff etc etc, the head coach/manager was free to focus on first time affairs.

 

How many DoF's are there in Scottish football?  Derek Mcinnes doesn't need one, Brendan Rodgers doesn't need one, popcorn teeth doesn't need one.  Exactly why do we need one? I can understand why we needed the role when Budge bought the club, but going forward long term, it's a waste of a large salary IMO.

[soonbe110]

How many DoF's are there in Scottish football?  Derek Mcinnes doesn't need one, Brendan Rodgers doesn't need one, popcorn teeth doesn't need one.  Exactly why do we need one? I can understand why we needed the role when Budge bought the club, but going forward long term, it's a waste of a large salary IMO.

Rodgers, Lennon all have people doing the bulk of the DoF role, as does Caixinho. They just have a different job title. None of those clubs have a chairperson who is actively involved in a day to day basis. We do. It's just semantics, and we allow the media to wind us up with it. Dempster does a chunk of the same things as Levein does at ER just. as Lawell does at Parkhead. Other elements of their roles differ. Dempster does stuff that Budge does at Hearts etc Structures are different at all the big clubs dependent on what they are comfortable with. DoF is nothing but a title. Interesting that Palace just hired one at the request of their new manager.

[Beast Boy]

Rodgers, Lennon all have people doing the bulk of the DoF role, as does Caixinho. They just have a different job title. None of those clubs have a chairperson who is actively involved in a day to day basis. We do. It's just semantics, and we allow the media to wind us up with it. Dempster does a chunk of the same things as Levein does at ER just. as Lawell does at Parkhead. Other elements of their roles differ. Dempster does stuff that Budge does at Hearts etc Structures are different at all the big clubs dependent on what they are comfortable with. DoF is nothing but a title. Interesting that Palace just hired one at the request of their new manager.

It is actually astonishing how people just blindly believe all the shite in the Scottish media. Rangers and Celtic for example sign players every season that were not identified by the manager. It's mental.

[colinmaroon]

As far as I can see Craig Levein has been trying to implement a system widely used on the continent and his focus has been on creating a successful academy and a modern club structure.

 

If you judge on our current standing, Scottish football is failing dramatically and this reflects on the club situation. I'd guess Levein's object is to raise our game up to a point where Hearts can compete internationally. Given that the SPFL and SFA appear to live in the dark ages and probably still think we use jumpers for goal posts this innovative approach is commendable especially as the old ways would never get Hearts anything but third place. We would be left with the status quo. That is, we couldn't even dream of being remotely successful.

 

People who talk about interfering seem to be missing the fact that the DOF role is widely used abroad and Levein is simply remaining in the background because that's what his job is. Interviews with ex managers, statements by managers and interim managers all point to him not interfering with the role of manager. The heavily prejudiced media lays into any apparent weakness at Hearts because if we keep working at it we may actually be a real threat to the duopoly. They don't want that and when we fall for their mantra they love it even more. As an older bloke I get a bit tired of instant demands for apologies, sackings, explanations comments, updates. In better days, the Pink news and the radio were about all you learned. I couldn?t have told you who was directing Hearts as a kid. Never mind office staff, possible mangers, possible signings, who hated the club, who was a secret rangers fan. I was purely interested in the football on the field.

 

Where the whole thing breaks down is that we have been woeful on the field. Immediate results are what everyone wants. Long term strategies are meaningless when you've just watched a trouncing by Dunfermline or the like.

 

Cathro's appointment didn't work out. It was risk most people were happy to take but sadly it failed. Player recruitment has also been a mixed bag. Both these areas are responsibilities of the DOF. However, in his defense we are simply not rich. Because we are not rich we can't get everything we want and Levein has rightly taken chances on players. It's a speculative approach but it's driven by lack of cash.

 

I do feel that there is a flaw in the theory behind being a 'stepping stone' club and it's simply that a stepping stone is not a fixed structure; it's always transitional so when you get a good player or manager they are always in the process of moving elsewhere and the perception is that they are not concentrating on where they actually are. But then again, that has been the unspoken rule of football for a long time so I think it's more about the emphasis on this aspect of our club.

 

When the new stand with all its facilities comes through and if we can fill it and increase revenue we will be able to sign better players and keep them longer. We will be able to take less risks. We will become more of a prospect for talent. With that we will be more successful.

 

For these reasons Levein should remain where is.  Rome wasn't built in a day and the league isn?t won over night.

 

 

Every time I feel that I've had enough of this forum, along comes a saviour!

 

Great post!!!

[Beast Boy]

Every time I feel that I've had enough of this forum, along comes a saviour!

 

Great post!!!

Steady Colin... your boss ain't keen on all this false idols carry on.

[mitch41]

With the criteria being you must be a free agent (unemployed) we will be limited although Jon Daly will be the exception.

I wonder which managers who are employed applyed for the job as Hearts will almost certainly not pay compensation which will rule out many talented quality managers.

[Cruyff Turn]

That's a great post Craig H and I agree. I can see that the academy is the way forward for us.

[Beast Boy]

What if the club does have money to spend, and we are going to appoint a head coach who isn't on the bookie's short list. Some amount of wasted seethe if that were to happen. It'd be delightful.

[Homme]

Developing our coaches may work in the future if we continue with it however the coaches we are developing are products of Scottish fitba' , not continental Europe.

 

We broke the mound with Cathro who had his own ideas and got shot of him after 6 months because we weren't getting results.

[jambo007]

That's a great post Craig H and I agree. I can see that the academy is the way forward for us.

 

Sounds spot on ,other teams on the Continent do it this way ? the only thing for me is after 3 weeks Cathro was not working..and we should have done somthing....we should not take long term manager ,Daly should step back knowing his stock is high and his time will come....

[Watt-Zeefuik]

 

My opinion is that Levein's "continental system" simply wont work in Scottish football.. Developing our own production line of coaches is deeply flawed, talented coaches wont stick around waiting for a chance at the first team job, they will be off elsewhere and when the head guy gets the chop or leaves, we're left in exactly the same position as we are in now.

 

Snipped for brevity.

 

I see this a lot but don't get it -- what the reason why it "simply won't work?"  What is so special about Scottish football that is different than North American and continental sport management, aside from there being a very large old guard with one idea of how it will work who grumble when that changes?

 

I think if there's a problem, it's Levein himself, and not the system he's arranged. No one knows for sure aside from Robbie why he left in the middle of a campaign to go to a League 1 side, but that threw a wrench in the works in a season that we probably otherwise would have challenged for second.  But with Ross having left in a dispute, Daly being green, we had to jump for longtime Levein favorite Cathro, and it was a disaster. Is Levein simply either making bad hires or running off the good ones with his personality? I have no idea but he's made enough enemies in Scotland one has to wonder a bit.

 

I still think Levein gets at least one more head coach appointment to prove his own worth.  But even if he needs to go, I don't think the DoF system is the problem.

[davieholt]

Very good and thoughtful post Craig H. Unfortunately, fans (me included) are not known for their patience and waiting for the academy to yield results is anathema to most. I think we all accept that we can't have the most talented squad but we do expect that all players give 100% for the jersey. Just now it ain't happening. We need a new man (or Daly if it happens) to kick a few arses a get the best out of the players we have. 

[Gambo]

As far as I can see Craig Levein has been trying to implement a system widely used on the continent and his focus has been on creating a successful academy and a modern club structure.

 

If you judge on our current standing, Scottish football is failing dramatically and this reflects on the club situation. I'd guess Levein's object is to raise our game up to a point where Hearts can compete internationally. Given that the SPFL and SFA appear to live in the dark ages and probably still think we use jumpers for goal posts this innovative approach is commendable especially as the old ways would never get Hearts anything but third place. We would be left with the status quo. That is, we couldn't even dream of being remotely successful.

 

 

 

Making us compete internationally.......i'd rather we concentrated on being able to compete domestically before we tried to take on the world.

 

No point in being ready to take on Europe when we can't qualify.

 

Whilst we are ignoring what's happening right now in preparation of taking on the world in a few years, more and more seats will be empty in the lovely new stand.

 

 

Start trying to be competitive now, THEN when that foundation is on place go for international supremacy.

[Beast Boy]

Making us compete internationally.......i'd rather we concentrated on being able to compete domestically before we tried to take on the world.

 

No point in being ready to take on Europe when we can't qualify.

I am guessing the aim is to start qualifying for the EL.

[graygo]

Good post and many fair points.

 

My opinion is that Levein's "continental system" simply wont work in Scottish football.. Developing our own production line of coaches is deeply flawed, talented coaches wont stick around waiting for a chance at the first team job, they will be off elsewhere and when the head guy gets the chop or leaves, we're left in exactly the same position as we are in now.

 

I'd also question his player recruitment policy which has cost the club a lot of money in pay-offs (inc Cathro), if someone carried the can for the new stand seat debacle and it cost them their job, at what point does Levein feel the heat for his decisions which have also cost the club valuable resource which as you rightly point out we cannot afford (and are probably hurting us now in being able to afford a quality replacement for Cathro)

 

His talent is undoubtedly lies on the Academy/Youth side, that is where his focus should be and not on a DoF role which involves first team matters. The evidence is there that he's not making a very good fist of it, and given we're not a very rich club, we do not need a DoF role in the first place, it's a concept Levein has sold Budge and given Budge's understandable ignorance of how a club runs, she bought it.  She now understands a lot more, and hopefully the changes she alludes to in her statement means we get an experienced guy as manager and the DoF role is made redundant.

 

We need to wake up to the fact that we are never going to challenge Celtic (or Rangers if they ever get their act together) for the title, what Aberdeen have achieved over the last couple of seasons is as good as it will get for any diddy Scottish club. We'll win the odd cup, maybe the occasional runners-up spot, but that will be it. That is how it has always ever been and sadly, nothing but ???? will ever change that.

 

Get Levein running the youth side of things, get an experienced management team in place to get the first team performing, and let's just get on with it.

 

How shite would that be eh?

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

I think the problem is twofold

 

1 We are skint.

 

2 Craig Levein

 

I think as a fanbase, we deserve a degree of honesty about this shambles!

The main problem is our signing pattern since summer 2015. If we had a promising,settled group of players that excited the fans then this head coach hunt would be much less of a big deal. The scouting of first team players has been grossly negligent and should result in people being fired and the whole department gutted and rebuilt. Is it still John Murray? After all this time?

[Boof]

/\ This.

? That

[Coco]

One way of measuring innovation is to tally it against the outcry from the status quo. Check out the negative press, the ridicule, the attempts to undermine the club. I'm not talking about conspiracies, just the establishment kicking in when they see something different. The introduction of a DOF was an innovation. The way the Academy was set up was innovative. Changing the entire approach and style of play was innovative, taking a manager (Robbie) who no one knew was innovative and successful, taking an untried manager (Cathro) who was known for being an innovative coach was innovative and unsuccessful. Revamping the whole club, going for a new innovative stand rather than changing club was innovative.

 

Not all innovation is successful but for me it's better to try than just accept the way things are.

Hiring a manager and running a youth system are things that virtually all clubs do. As for untried Archibald, Canning, Lennon and perhaps others in the League all stepped straight from playing to management. See no evidence of changing the style of play to any kind of New Hearts Way.

 

The press stuff is mostly just froth ... But many in the press were better at predicting the failure of Cathro than were either Levein or people on here.

 

I don't think that the DOF has anything to do with the stand either.

[Bazzas right boot]

Are suggesting that we are not skint?

 

Are you suggesting that Craig Levein is not a problem?

Yip

 

Yip

 

I am suggesting Hearts fans with a warped agenda are finding problems.

 

Nb- we were skint 3 years ago. Big difference from being financially prudent while undertaking and financing a large capital project.

[King Of The Cat Cafe]

You mean Daly becomes a 'bridge' manager until we perhaps can get O'Neill next summer?

 

 

That works for me.

 

 

 

 

Oh, and add me to the Craig Herbertson fan club.

[Hendricks]

Whilst I think Craig H's post has a lot of merit, is well written and raises numerous good and indeed fair points especially about infrastructure and the Academy there are things that I would dispute.

 

One of those is this notion that we don't have or at least haven't had any money to spend and that is the reason for our shortcomings on the field. I might add Craig hasn't excused how bad we have been but he did suggest that Levein has had his hands tied when it comes to recruitment. I would categorically say that has not been the case and it has been the very poor recruitment of a long list of mediocre, at best, players that see us currently without a Head Coach and with an extremely average squad. Whoever it is that has signed off on these players has made numerous and continual bad decisions and we have wasted hundreds of thousands of pounds on duds. We have had to pay some off, loan out others and see others sit in the stand doing nothing whilst all the time picking up substantial wages we can ill afford. We still have some of them on the staff now and will be paying the price on them for a while yet unless we can pay off and release them too. It is wrong to suggest that we have not had a chance to be much better than we currently are, it is down to our own mistakes that we find ourselves in this position. There has been a distinct lack of quality over quantity which makes no sense at all for a club like Hearts. Better to have a Berra and a Lafferty than half a dozen nonentities even if the 2 are paid the same amount of money as the 6. We have been unbelievably wasteful with our resources.

 

The signing of poor to bad players and a disastrous coaching appointment has had a huge knock on effect as it has resulted in us not achieving the minimum targets which has of course made the financial situation more precarious. Whilst I wholeheartedly agree that Hearts as a club need to have a strong infrastructure and Academy and indeed look forward to us having increased income streams from the new stand the be all and end all of any club, particularly a big club (in Scottish terms) like Hearts is the 1st team. Everything will be judged on that. If they were making decisions in the best interests of the first team now then fans would be far more patient in waiting for the Academy to bear fruit several years down the line but they haven't been and this latest fiasco at appointing a new Head Coach simply frustrates further.

 

We have been asked to take a number of leaps of faith recently, many (including me) were convinced even though we knew it would never work out, to give Cathro more time. Look how that turned out. So many bad decisions on the football front have been made that trust has been eroded away and it is that which Levein and Budge need to win back from some amongst the support. Appointing another novice like Daly will without question be another slap in the face and should that happen he and even moreso Levein will be on a very short leash. If results don't follow all of them are going to be under immediate pressure as there is no justification whatsoever for such an appointment at this time. 

 

Near the end of Craig's post he says that "If we can fill the new stand" well I think this setup has reached a very pivotal moment in how we progress whilst they remain in place. We all want the stand full, all the stands but there has to be a significant upturn in what we are doing on the pitch for that to become a reality. If they make an appointment that inspires and galvanises the dressing room and the support we can kick on but if its the my way or the highway approach, an underwhelming, unimaginative and cheap option than I only forsee issues throughout another wasted season and an inevitable parting of ways into 2018. Levein won't survive another failed novice. "Rome wasn't built in a day" may be true but it was built by people who knew what they were doing. We will soon find out if the people in charge of HMFC are capable of proving they know what they are doing.

[Son Of Anarchy]

How shite would that be eh?

God forbid eh? 2nd best is still failure. We should be champions league winners or gtf

[deejtee]

Yip

 

Yip

 

I am suggesting Hearts fans with a warped agenda are finding problems.

 

Nb- we were skint 3 years ago. Big difference from being financially prudent while undertaking and financing a large capital project.

Mind you it took you among others a while to accept Cathro was a problem! I don't imagine anyone is comparing our finances with admin but it does appear to  be causing us a wee problem in our recovery, ignore that if you like.

[Bazzas right boot]

As far as I can see Craig Levein has been trying to implement a system widely used on the continent and his focus has been on creating a successful academy and a modern club structure.

 

If you judge on our current standing, Scottish football is failing dramatically and this reflects on the club situation. I'd guess Levein's object is to raise our game up to a point where Hearts can compete internationally. Given that the SPFL and SFA appear to live in the dark ages and probably still think we use jumpers for goal posts this innovative approach is commendable especially as the old ways would never get Hearts anything but third place. We would be left with the status quo. That is, we couldn't even dream of being remotely successful.

 

People who talk about interfering seem to be missing the fact that the DOF role is widely used abroad and Levein is simply remaining in the background because that's what his job is. Interviews with ex managers, statements by managers and interim managers all point to him not interfering with the role of manager. The heavily prejudiced media lays into any apparent weakness at Hearts because if we keep working at it we may actually be a real threat to the duopoly. They don't want that and when we fall for their mantra they love it even more. As an older bloke I get a bit tired of instant demands for apologies, sackings, explanations comments, updates. In better days, the Pink news and the radio were about all you learned. I couldn?t have told you who was directing Hearts as a kid. Never mind office staff, possible mangers, possible signings, who hated the club, who was a secret rangers fan. I was purely interested in the football on the field.

 

Where the whole thing breaks down is that we have been woeful on the field. Immediate results are what everyone wants. Long term strategies are meaningless when you've just watched a trouncing by Dunfermline or the like.

 

Cathro's appointment didn't work out. It was risk most people were happy to take but sadly it failed. Player recruitment has also been a mixed bag. Both these areas are responsibilities of the DOF. However, in his defense we are simply not rich. Because we are not rich we can't get everything we want and Levein has rightly taken chances on players. It's a speculative approach but it's driven by lack of cash.

 

I do feel that there is a flaw in the theory behind being a 'stepping stone' club and it's simply that a stepping stone is not a fixed structure; it's always transitional so when you get a good player or manager they are always in the process of moving elsewhere and the perception is that they are not concentrating on where they actually are. But then again, that has been the unspoken rule of football for a long time so I think it's more about the emphasis on this aspect of our club.

 

When the new stand with all its facilities comes through and if we can fill it and increase revenue we will be able to sign better players and keep them longer. We will be able to take less risks. We will become more of a prospect for talent. With that we will be more successful.

 

For these reasons Levein should remain where is. Rome wasn't built in a day and the league isn?t won over night.

Great post.

 

However, I would say the next appointment is important.

[Bazzas right boot]

Mind you it took you among others a while to accept Cathro was a problem! I don't imagine anyone is comparing our finances with admin but it does appear to be causing us a wee problem in our recovery, ignore that if you like.

As in life, I'd give everyone a chance.

 

Not for changing things every time we lose a few games.

 

We aren't skint and cl isn't a problem. Imo ofc.

[Cruyff Turn]

Great post.

 

However, I would say the next appointment is important.

I agree but I also think the next appointment must understand that the development and introduction of youth players to the first team is essential.

[rudi must stay]

As far as I can see Craig Levein has been trying to implement a system widely used on the continent and his focus has been on creating a successful academy and a modern club structure.

 

If you judge on our current standing, Scottish football is failing dramatically and this reflects on the club situation. I'd guess Levein's object is to raise our game up to a point where Hearts can compete internationally. Given that the SPFL and SFA appear to live in the dark ages and probably still think we use jumpers for goal posts this innovative approach is commendable especially as the old ways would never get Hearts anything but third place. We would be left with the status quo. That is, we couldn't even dream of being remotely successful.

 

People who talk about interfering seem to be missing the fact that the DOF role is widely used abroad and Levein is simply remaining in the background because that's what his job is. Interviews with ex managers, statements by managers and interim managers all point to him not interfering with the role of manager. The heavily prejudiced media lays into any apparent weakness at Hearts because if we keep working at it we may actually be a real threat to the duopoly. They don't want that and when we fall for their mantra they love it even more. As an older bloke I get a bit tired of instant demands for apologies, sackings, explanations comments, updates. In better days, the Pink news and the radio were about all you learned. I couldn?t have told you who was directing Hearts as a kid. Never mind office staff, possible mangers, possible signings, who hated the club, who was a secret rangers fan. I was purely interested in the football on the field.

 

Where the whole thing breaks down is that we have been woeful on the field. Immediate results are what everyone wants. Long term strategies are meaningless when you've just watched a trouncing by Dunfermline or the like.

 

Cathro's appointment didn't work out. It was risk most people were happy to take but sadly it failed. Player recruitment has also been a mixed bag. Both these areas are responsibilities of the DOF. However, in his defense we are simply not rich. Because we are not rich we can't get everything we want and Levein has rightly taken chances on players. It's a speculative approach but it's driven by lack of cash.

 

I do feel that there is a flaw in the theory behind being a 'stepping stone' club and it's simply that a stepping stone is not a fixed structure; it's always transitional so when you get a good player or manager they are always in the process of moving elsewhere and the perception is that they are not concentrating on where they actually are. But then again, that has been the unspoken rule of football for a long time so I think it's more about the emphasis on this aspect of our club.

 

When the new stand with all its facilities comes through and if we can fill it and increase revenue we will be able to sign better players and keep them longer. We will be able to take less risks. We will become more of a prospect for talent. With that we will be more successful.

 

For these reasons Levein should remain where is. Rome wasn't built in a day and the league isn?t won over night.

Levein has been focusing on spending big and hoping for the best. Look at the amount of youngsters we have released over the past few years

[ramrod]

Maybe the interview process hasn't been a complete waste of time .

Ann's statement stated they were looking at the possibility of a restructuring of the footballing side of things

Perhaps speaking with Freedman , Davies and to a lesser extent Pressley has given her a fresh look at how the footballing side could be run differently.

[Hendricks]

Maybe the interview process hasn't been a complete waste of time .

Ann's statement stated they were looking at the possibility of a restructuring of the footballing side of things

Perhaps speaking with Freedman , Davies and to a lesser extent Pressley has given her a fresh look at how the footballing side could be run differently.

Perhaps although there's as much chance of a cost cutting exercise at least in the short term as anything else.

[Beast Boy]

Levein has been focusing on spending big and hoping for the best. Look at the amount of youngsters we have released over the past few years

No he hasn't. We have been trying to pick up good foreign players because we couldn't afford the over-inflated British market in the first two seasons back. The hope was to get better value for money.

[Rudy T]

Good post and many fair points.

 

My opinion is that Levein's "continental system" simply wont work in Scottish football.. Developing our own production line of coaches is deeply flawed, talented coaches wont stick around waiting for a chance at the first team job, they will be off elsewhere and when the head guy gets the chop or leaves, we're left in exactly the same position as we are in now.

 

I'd also question his player recruitment policy which has cost the club a lot of money in pay-offs (inc Cathro), if someone carried the can for the new stand seat debacle and it cost them their job, at what point does Levein feel the heat for his decisions which have also cost the club valuable resource which as you rightly point out we cannot afford (and are probably hurting us now in being able to afford a quality replacement for Cathro)

 

His talent is undoubtedly lies on the Academy/Youth side, that is where his focus should be and not on a DoF role which involves first team matters. The evidence is there that he's not making a very good fist of it, and given we're not a very rich club, we do not need a DoF role in the first place, it's a concept Levein has sold Budge and given Budge's understandable ignorance of how a club runs, she bought it. She now understands a lot more, and hopefully the changes she alludes to in her statement means we get an experienced guy as manager and the DoF role is made redundant.

 

We need to wake up to the fact that we are never going to challenge Celtic (or Rangers if they ever get their act together) for the title, what Aberdeen have achieved over the last couple of seasons is as good as it will get for any diddy Scottish club. We'll win the odd cup, maybe the occasional runners-up spot, but that will be it. That is how it has always ever been and sadly, nothing but ???? will ever change that.

 

Get Levein running the youth side of things, get an experienced management team in place to get the first team performing, and let's just get on with it.

 

I think the approach will work, the issue is we started it too soon. Neither the coaches or the academy players were ready to step up. The issue was Neilson left probably a season too early for the continuity require to promote from within.

 

He took a punt on players he thought they could improve and sell but it didn't really work so we've changed that model.

 

The head coach appointment is a tricky one for the club in terms of the model as a highly experienced coach may get short term success and move on quickly again leaving a potential gap. A less experienced coach brings it's risks.

 

Levein won't be leaving his role you only need to read that horrible little rat Davies statement to know CL is going to remain DoF.

[JJ1984]

As in life, I'd give everyone a chance.

 

Not for changing things every time we lose a few games.

 

We aren't skint and cl isn't a problem. Imo ofc.

You wouldn't hear a bad word against Cathro until the last game answer criticised everyone that did.

[Bazzas right boot]

Buffon.

 

Player/ ma?ager.

 

Big Italian community in Edinburgh, we need a keeper, cl likes in experienced managers, makes sense

[Bazzas right boot]

You wouldn't hear a bad word against Cathro until the last game answer criticised everyone that did.

Nope, I said he needed a good start well in advance of the LC.

 

I also said we had to qualify from the group stages.

 

After that failure I wanted him out.

 

He'd had the summer transfer window and still ****ed it.

 

Clearly a change was needed.

 

I had given him the summer window to build his team and then perform. Perfectly reasonable.

 

Conincidently, cl and Ann cleary had the same thinking.

[Morgan]

Buffon.

Player/ ma?ager.

Big Italian community in Edinburgh, we need a keeper, cl likes in experienced managers, makes sense

Aye, but is he much of a goalie?

 

[Son Of Anarchy]

Buffon.

 

Player/ ma?ager.

 

Big Italian community in Edinburgh, we need a keeper, cl likes in experienced managers, makes sense

Doesn't "get" Hearts or know Scottish fitba. Daft suggestion.

 

 

 

 

As goalie, we could do better

[Bazzas right boot]

Aye, but is he much of a goalie?

 

Too auld as well