General Election

[redm]

On one point (ah ok 2) I think no TV debates are superb. They mean 90% of this election won't be on tv debates on the format or on the people with the best 30 second answer to a deep seated issue. Also this a parliamentary election, not a presidential one. Want debates? Go to local hustings. I see no useful part which these tv debates remotely provide to anyone.

 

Even last year in Scotland they did little but add soundbites and one liners to a dull campaign.

 

Secondly, Carmichael should be safe. Frlm folk I know up there he has a huge local popularity. Is a good local MP and a local boy at that. The SNP candidate who pushed him close isnt running either as he's on the council election for Shetland.

 

I agree though Edinburgh West could go Liberal Democrat. Also believe John Nicholson and the MP for Berwick are on shoogly pegs for their seats to (LibDem and Tory) opponents.

 

I think now the FM is banging the indyref2 drum that some tight SNP seats could fall to unionists, especially if there's tactical voting. Afterall, I think Brexit is going to be second fiddle to independence up here.

I get what you mean about the TV debates but they're also some of the only ways for people to engage with manifesto specifics and track records. Many won't go to hustings or write letters or read materials but they will watch a live TV debate. Plus the debates themselves don't have parliamentary protocols to follow so participants (should) find it more difficult to be evasive and ignore questions. Doesn't always work that way, of course

 

For me, they have their place.

 

I wonder how the narrative will build in terms of prioritising and presenting the Brexit and indyref elements...? it's going to be very interesting to watch, especially in terms of how they go about attracting attention of the niche groups they're trying to encourage to switch. It's not my vote they're after anyway.

[Space Mackerel]

How about 10x "Once in a lifetime/generation".

 

See for yourself

 

It's was in their manifesto which they won an election landlslide with.

 

[ToadKiller Dog]

Tank commander Ruth the mooth to stand in Tatton in the GE ???

 

Got her reward

Good riddance to her then likely to get Fluffy Mundells job once he gets beat .

[Boris]

Last one to receice Royal Assent (becoming law) was in March 2016. So in a year since there has been no legislation passed by the Holyrood Parliament.

Put another way, since the Scottish election in May 2016 we have seen no legislation passed.

Not strictly true as there has been one ASP in 2017, the budget.

 

Quite strange that no other legislation has passed though. Perhaps due to being a minority government?

 

Sturgeon maybe knows how May feels?

[Rudy T]

It's was in their manifesto which they won an election landlslide with.

 

And when was that manifesto written? How long after the will of the people declared they didn't want independence?

 

Yet here we have nationalists having a go at May for Brexit because she was a remain supporter but now as PM she must follow the will of the people.

 

I think it's ridiculously arrogant of the SNP to link Brexit to independence. 1.6m voted Yes and coincidently 1.6m voted remain. 1.6m as proven is not enough to gain independence. The fact is Scotland has voted twice to remain part of a Union but the SNP still want indyref2 at any cost.

 

How much money has this country spent on elections is the last 3 years and now we want another one to follow a GE.

 

As has been displayed above no bill of any significance has been passed in a year now with a GE and potential indyref2 it could be another 18 months until anything is done. Even the most hardy of Nats have to step back and ask is independence really the answer right now, what state will be in if it was to happen and is the European Union really the answer, with no UK and others now threatening to leave.

 

The political landscape across the world has changed (and continuing to do so) significantly since indyref1 so does it still remain a viable proposition?? That's one of the many questions I've yet to hear an answer to.

[Boris]

Just saw Redm's post re statutory instruments.

[Thunderstruck]

I don't know why I'm jumping in here because this idea that legislative activity is an accurate barometer of productivity or progress seems a bit iffy to me but it's maybe also worth mentioning statutory instruments if we're getting into it, I suppose. It's not a set of stats I remember anyone ever caring about before, so is it just a case of trying to discredit SNP by discrediting the whole Parliament and writing it off as an expensive talking shop or something? Is that the gist of this legislation counting thing?

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ssi

There is quite a difference between Primary and Secondary legislation. A significant proportion of the SSIs are administrative updates to pre-existing legislation and are subject to little or no debate.

[deesidejambo]

Not strictly true as there has been one ASP in 2017, the budget.

 

Quite strange that no other legislation has passed though. Perhaps due to being a minority government?

 

Sturgeon maybe knows how May feels?

The Named Person seems to have been silently buried.

[JamboX2]

Not strictly true as there has been one ASP in 2017, the budget.

 

Quite strange that no other legislation has passed though. Perhaps due to being a minority government?

 

Sturgeon maybe knows how May feels?

The budget is the bare minimum. It's the one thing that HAS to be passed.

 

Equally, as has been shown of late the Greens are all too happy to offer their votes to assist the government.

[Boris]

The Named Person seems to have been silently buried.

Can you blame them?

[JamboX2]

I don't know why I'm jumping in here because this idea that legislative activity is an accurate barometer of productivity or progress seems a bit iffy to me but it's maybe also worth mentioning statutory instruments if we're getting into it, I suppose. It's not a set of stats I remember anyone ever caring about before, so is it just a case of trying to discredit SNP by discrediting the whole Parliament and writing it off as an expensive talking shop or something? Is that the gist of this legislation counting thing?

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ssi

Thunderstruck has said what I was about to say on SSI's. I'd also add I'm not just attacking thr SNP government. The lack of any substantive work of note beyond independence debates at Holyrood from all parties is staggering. All these new powers on welfare, skills, tax, transport, health policy and zilch from any of them.

 

Scotland is paralyzed by constitutional politics. Which is of zero use to anyone.

[deesidejambo]

Can you blame them?

Def not!  the most stupid legislation I've ever seen.    The intent may be fine but the legislation to deliver on it is amateur.

[deesidejambo]

Thunderstruck has said what I was about to say on SSI's. I'd also add I'm not just attacking thr SNP government. The lack of any substantive work of note beyond independence debates at Holyrood from all parties is staggering. All these new powers on welfare, skills, tax, transport, health policy and zilch from any of them.

 

Scotland is paralyzed by constitutional politics. Which is of zero use to anyone.

And it will stay that way for the coming years.  A country divided.

 

I'm all for SNP going for a UDI campaign.      Stop wanting to be part of the UK Govt and wanting to be Independent at the same time.  The two are not aligned.

 

They wont get an IndyRef so it needs to be UDI or nothing and let the voters decide.

 

But they wont.

[Mikey1874]

Tory vote share in Scotland; UK general elections

1983: 28.4%

1987: 24.0%

1992: 25.6%

1997: 17.5%

2001: 15.6%

2005: 15.8%

2010: 16.7%

2015: 14.9%

 

Moothy Ruthie bounce?

 

 

Zero evidence of that.

Yeah

 

50% in 1955

 

Things can change

[redm]

Thunderstruck has said what I was about to say on SSI's. I'd also add I'm not just attacking thr SNP government. The lack of any substantive work of note beyond independence debates at Holyrood from all parties is staggering. All these new powers on welfare, skills, tax, transport, health policy and zilch from any of them.

 

Scotland is paralyzed by constitutional politics. Which is of zero use to anyone

 

I can't multiquote today for some reason, which is annoying, but reply really aimed at both you and Thunderstruck....

 

I can see why this has arisen as a talking point, a year's absence of primary legislation could be something worth discussing but at the same time, I'm not convinced it's necessarily a suitable yardstick. Or not yet anyway. There's plenty of legislative activity, plenty of explorative and consultative activity and going by the daily schedules the committees are beavering away too. Secondary legislation is just as valid if you want evidence that things are working as they should be imo.

 

That said, there is no doubt that we're caught up in strange times and that's partly down to the Brexit situation as much as independence and it probably is causing all sorts of bottlenecks for administrative reasons. Both are constitutional questions that need to be resolved one way or another and, if we're being fair, there's probably as little point in saying things like "can't you just forget this nonsense and get on with the day job" to Sturgeon as there is to May or anyone else in leadership. It's not a practical sort of criticism, it's just a snark which completely ignores circumstance and I don't think it's helpful. It's kind of empty, and just adds to the noise.

 

Anyway, "now is (probably) not the time" to spend a lot of money or effort on things that are potentially sensitive to or likely to be impacted by constitutional changes. I'd also rather see no major legislation at all than shit emerging like the Rape Clause. I still can't get over that one. I'll probably mention it a lot in coming weeks.

[coconut doug]

On one point (ah ok 2) I think no TV debates are superb. They mean 90% of this election won't be on tv debates on the format or on the people with the best 30 second answer to a deep seated issue. Also this a parliamentary election, not a presidential one. Want debates? Go to local hustings. I see no useful part which these tv debates remotely provide to anyone.

 

Even last year in Scotland they did little but add soundbites and one liners to a dull campaign.

 

Secondly, Carmichael should be safe. Frlm folk I know up there he has a huge local popularity. Is a good local MP and a local boy at that. The SNP candidate who pushed him close isnt running either as he's on the council election for Shetland.

 

I agree though Edinburgh West could go Liberal Democrat. Also believe John Nicholson and the MP for Berwick are on shoogly pegs for their seats to (LibDem and Tory) opponents.

 

I think now the FM is banging the indyref2 drum that some tight SNP seats could fall to unionists, especially if there's tactical voting. Afterall, I think Brexit is going to be second fiddle to independence up here.

Is Islay now classed as local to Orkney and Shetland? Is this because they are all islands? No prospects of Labour winning anything, will you be voting tactically for the Tories or restricting your support to your comments on here?

[coconut doug]

Thunderstruck has said what I was about to say on SSI's. I'd also add I'm not just attacking thr SNP government. The lack of any substantive work of note beyond independence debates at Holyrood from all parties is staggering. All these new powers on welfare, skills, tax, transport, health policy and zilch from any of them.

 

Scotland is paralyzed by constitutional politics. Which is of zero use to anyone.

Welfare  -  mitigation of bedroom tax

 

Skills   -  reorganisation of fe colleges resulting in more full-time work based courses for young people. We have the lowest youth unemployment in the U.K.

 

Tax  - maintaining the higher rate tax threshold

 

Transport  - The borders railway

 

Health policy  - action on A and E waiting times now the lowest by far in the country.

 

There are several more in each category which adds up to a lot more than "zilch"

 

SNP bad though!

[Space Mackerel]

Is Islay now classed as local to Orkney and Shetland? Is this because they are all islands? No prospects of Labour winning anything, will you be voting tactically for the Tories or restricting your support to your comments on here?

Ian Murray last night on Twitter begging for Tory votes to keep his seat.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[The Continental Op]

So extra powers were given https://www.snp.org/pb_what_powers_does_the_scotland_act_2016_devolve ..... it's just that the SNP are too busy to use them ?

 

We were promised "the most powerful devolved parliament in the world" by one G Brown - so how come we are getting more?

 

Anyway more power to carry out a Conservative directed national econonmic and social policy is less than appealing.

[The Continental Op]

You better be worried then. 63%,of Scotland's exports are purchased by rUK.

 

16% of Scotland's exports are purchased by the whole EU put together.

The rest of the UK exports more to Scotland than the whole of the UK exports to the USA - you think Westminster will put that at risk?

[The Continental Op]

Bin this clown on June 8:

 

 

510 of the 7,000 jobs at Faslane+Coulport depend on Trident missiles and subs (MoD official reply).

 

After independence employment will increase due to the 2-4 frigates and 1 command ship that the Scottish Navy will be basing there.

[HaymarketJambo]

Ian Murray last night on Twitter begging for Tory votes to keep his seat.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

He is in for one hell of a fight to hold onto Edinburgh South if Ian Murray can get the Tory vote to back him under a Corbyn ticket good luck to him, if not it's a SNP Gain. 

[JamboX2]

Is Islay now classed as local to Orkney and Shetland? Is this because they are all islands? No prospects of Labour winning anything, will you be voting tactically for the Tories or restricting your support to your comments on here?

Islay? Where have I said that?

 

I am moving back in with my folks ahead of the vote. Likely a tactical vote for the Liberals. Pro-EU and historically from Gorie to Crockart they served the constituency well. Good local MPs. Labour stand 0 chance in Edinburgh West. Had I been still renting in South I'd vote Labour.

 

Wouldn't vote Tory at all sir.

 

You'll be voting SNP no doubt.

[JamboX2]

Welfare - mitigation of bedroom tax

 

Skills - reorganisation of fe colleges resulting in more full-time work based courses for young people. We have the lowest youth unemployment in the U.K.

 

Tax - maintaining the higher rate tax threshold

 

Transport - The borders railway

 

Health policy - action on A and E waiting times now the lowest by far in the country.

 

There are several more in each category which adds up to a lot more than "zilch"

 

SNP bad though!

All accepted as good policies. Albeit Borders Railway was approved by a Lab-Lib policy and with bedroom tax mitigation Labour and the Greens had to force the SNPs hand.

 

Also, all came before last year's election.

 

Not much of note since 2016's vote - on all parties Coco. As I say attacking all here not just the SNP.

[redm]

2017 Election Quiz

Answer the following questions to see how your political beliefs match the political parties and candidates in the June 2017 snap election.

 

http://uk.isidewith.com/political-quiz?from=HkrfdNUs2

[JamboX2]

He was born on Islay

Ah. My Shetlander mate is wrong then! My mistake.

[JamboX2]

I don't think it is a big deal, he lives on Orkney so is a local now and comes from an Island community.

 

It is the lies he told over Frenchgate that will do for him, he only just won last time.

Thing is he won with all that flying around at the time. Will be an interesting race no doubt.

[Alwayssunnyingorgie]

2017 Election Quiz

Answer the following questions to see how your political beliefs match the political parties and candidates in the June 2017 snap election.

 

http://uk.isidewith.com/political-quiz?from=HkrfdNUs2

I'm a labour supporter now :/

[...a bit disco]

2017 Election Quiz

Answer the following questions to see how your political beliefs match the political parties and candidates in the June 2017 snap election.

 

http://uk.isidewith.com/political-quiz?from=HkrfdNUs2

 

 

 

Time to revoke my SNP membership apparently!

 

I side with Plaid Cymru on most political issues of the 2017 Election

[HaymarketJambo]

2017 Election Quiz

Answer the following questions to see how your political beliefs match the political parties and candidates in the June 2017 snap election.

 

http://uk.isidewith.com/political-quiz?from=HkrfdNUs2

 

 

I am now a DUP supporter - No Surrender.        

[redm]

 

A bit of light-hearted fun. 

 

Did you stick to the straight yes/no answers or did you go for the more detailed options in "other stances"? 

[Captain America]

 

A bit of light-hearted fun. 

 

Did you stick to the straight yes/no answers or did you go for the more detailed options in "other stances"? 

I stuck to yes/no on all apart from Brexit question.

 

87% SNP. 

[HaymarketJambo]

 

A bit of light-hearted fun. 

 

Did you stick to the straight yes/no answers or did you go for the more detailed options in "other stances"? 

 

A bit of both.

Labour were a close 2nd behind the DUP for me.    

[Captain Sausage]

Conservative and Lib Dem both at 65%. That didn't help haha.

 

42% SNP! That was a surprise.

[Boof]

 

And eh, Lib Dem.... hmeh. Chance in Edinburgh West perhaps? It'll be interesting to see how O&S feel about Carmichael these days, knowing what they know now.

 

I think he's a lying *****

 

Wikipedia states..."Prior to the 2015 general election, Carmichael approved the leak of a false memo to The Daily Telegraph alleging that the First Minister Nicola Sturgeon preferred the Conservative Party's David Cameron as the next prime minister. At the time of the leak, he denied all knowledge of it but later apologised after his role was identified by a subsequent Cabinet Office enquiry."

 

Secondly, Carmichael should be safe. Frlm folk I know up there he has a huge local popularity. Is a good local MP and a local boy at that. The SNP candidate who pushed him close isnt running either as he's on the council election for Shetland.

 

 

Not that huge local popularity - unless you're thinking of our (Shetland) MSP?

SNP candidate who pushed him close (majority 817 - an absolutely staggering result) isn't running as he died last August.

[Space Mackerel]

 

A bit of light-hearted fun.

 

Did you stick to the straight yes/no answers or did you go for the more detailed options in "other stances"?

It might not be a bit of fun once they get hold of your IP address and start gleaning the info. All forms of social media are involved so be careful when filling out these questionnaires on Facebook or whatever, even if you think they are harmless.

 

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/how-our-likes-helped-trump-win

[Cade]

Top ten smallest majorities in Scotland.

 

3 of the top 5 are the only non-SNP MPs 

 

[Mikey1874]

Unite union have suspended leadership challenger Gerard Coyle.

 

This may be significant in terms of the person he is challenging current Unite leader Len McCluskey a close ally and supporter of Jeremy Corbyn. Result of leadership contest due to be anounuced next week.

 

Of course may be all above board.

[deesidejambo]

Top ten smallest majorities in Scotland.

 

3 of the top 5 are the only non-SNP MPs

 

EdinBorough?

[Bindy Badgy]

2017 Election Quiz

Answer the following questions to see how your political beliefs match the political parties and candidates in the June 2017 snap election.

 

http://uk.isidewith.com/political-quiz?from=HkrfdNUs2

 

 

86% SNP

80% Labour

39% BNP - this is the bottom one but still quite concerning that I apparently share any of their beliefs

[Victorian]

Good to see that the Labour Party has set out it's stall to contest this election on all issues, including the economy, services and social justice. Not being railroaded by the media into a straight Brexit debate. I hope and pray that people throughout the UK will look beyond the myopic views of Brexit and party leader personalities. Every time I see some person say "I'm a Labour voter but... " I despair. It's time for people to vote according to their latent philosophy and not to the apathetic, superficial narrative that they're spoon fed in the media.

[Shanks said no]

Edinburgh West news

 

 

According to BBC Two MPs - Michelle Thompson and Natalie McGarry who have been suspended by the party since 2015 will learn their fate on Saturday when the party's National Executive Committee is meeting to decide.

[Rudy T]

Good to see that the Labour Party has set out it's stall to contest this election on all issues, including the economy, services and social justice. Not being railroaded by the media into a straight Brexit debate. I hope and pray that people throughout the UK will look beyond the myopic views of Brexit and party leader personalities. Every time I see some person say "I'm a Labour voter but... " I despair. It's time for people to vote according to their latent philosophy and not to the apathetic, superficial narrative that they're spoon fed in the media.

Indeed they should but in Scotland it's a simple independence versus union vote. It's how it will be promoted by SNP and Tory. The scaremongering will be off the scale because neither can point to much else and will be running scared they get dragged into a debate on actually running the country!

[JyTees]

It might not be a bit of fun once they get hold of your IP address and start gleaning the info. All forms of social media are involved so be careful when filling out these questionnaires on Facebook or whatever, even if you think they are harmless.

 

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/how-our-likes-helped-trump-win

More cadaver filled missile type conspiracy nonsense from Scotland's face painted answer to Walter Mitty.

 

Keep em coming Walt.

[Mars plastic]

More cadaver filled missile type conspiracy nonsense from Scotland's face painted answer to Walter Mitty.

 

Keep em coming Walt.

:lol:

[Boris]

More cadaver filled missile type conspiracy nonsense from Scotland's face painted answer to Walter Mitty.

 

Keep em coming Walt.

 

It's quite an interesting article and I wouldn't dismiss it as quickly.

 

Whether it makes a difference?  Big if, but data capture and profiling is certainly happening in greater and lesser degrees.

[Don Dan]

Nicked from another site. Obviously could be applied to any politician

 

 

Nicola Sturgeon was being chauffeur driven to a meeting in Perth and as the car was driving along the country side a cow came out field and was struck by the car and was killed. Sturgeon told the driver that as it was his fault he had better go and tell the farmer. So off he went and did not return for five hours. On coming back to the car Sturgeon could see the driver was drunk and asked what took so long. The driver said the Farmer opened his best Malt Whisky and his wife cooked him a slap up meal and then he was allowed to make love to the Farmers daughter, it was all so amazing. Sturgeon said what did you say about the accident? The chauffer said, well I went to the door and knocked on it and when the Farmer came to the door I said " I'm Nicola Sturgeons driver and I've killed the cow!" and then the party started, he took it really well!

[Space Mackerel]

More cadaver filled missile type conspiracy nonsense from Scotland's face painted answer to Walter Mitty.

 

Keep em coming Walt.

:lol:

I can't see Cambridge Analytics being interested in a couple of brain dead Royalist uber Hearts fans to be honest.

 

Marked down as a lost cause. :-/

[Space Mackerel]

It's quite an interesting article and I wouldn't dismiss it as quickly.

 

Whether it makes a difference? Big if, but data capture and profiling is certainly happening in greater and lesser degrees.

Anyone who thinks Facebook exists these days to connect to friends needs a serious head examination.

[JamboX2]

I see recently elected Edinburgh SNP leader Frank Ross is facing an ethics probe over not declaring he owns a hotel... odd thing to forget you own.