Geoff Kilpatrick Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Presumably if the uk is bound to get the Brexit the eu deigns to give it , Scotland would get the form of independence the UK deigned to give it. Ummm, no. If the UK was fully absorbed into a Federal Europe the analogy would hold. Thankfully, it isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Lol at this when the Tories win 400+ seats May didn't spend very long in Scotland did she? And gives her address in a hut 17 miles outside Aberdeen. Strong and stable right enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mars plastic Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 May didn't spend very long in Scotland did she? And gives her address in a hut 17 miles outside Aberdeen. Strong and stable right enough. :lol: You're barry likes. But not in a good way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 May didn't spend very long in Scotland did she? And gives her address in a hut 17 miles outside Aberdeen. Strong and stable right enough. And yet it seems the Tories will win seats in Scotland from the SNP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mars plastic Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 And yet it seems the Tories will win seats in Scotland from the SNP. I think Wee Nippy and her rag tag bunch of MP's are in for a surprise come June. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Ummm, no. If the UK was fully absorbed into a Federal Europe the analogy would hold. Thankfully, it isn't. analogies are rarely perfect but i agree the uk is in a stronger position against the eu than scotland would be against an intransigent rUK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 May didn't spend very long in Scotland did she? And gives her address in a hut 17 miles outside Aberdeen. Strong and stable right enough. Aye but the rhetoric in that piece - something about a Brexit shaped bullet shooting her in the face - hardly figures if she wins a bigger majority. Might sound good but ultimately a pointless article if the writer's projections turn out to be horseshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Aye but the rhetoric in that piece - something about a Brexit shaped bullet shooting her in the face - hardly figures if she wins a bigger majority. Might sound good but ultimately a pointless article if the writer's projections turn out to be horseshit. Same old lying Torys eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 And yet it seems the Tories will win seats in Scotland from the SNP. It will still be a SNP landslide no matter how the MSM dress it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Didn't hear about this on the BBC [emoji849] https://twitter.com/jamieszymko/status/858375296915058689 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Didn't hear about this on the BBC [emoji849] https://twitter.com/jamieszymko/status/858375296915058689 You seem wierdly obsessed with the baby-eating evil Tories. Is it because of their increasing vote share? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 You seem wierdly obsessed with the baby-eating evil Tories. Is it because of their increasing vote share? Now is not the time...[emoji849] https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/scots-to-back-independence-referendum-if-snp-leads-poll-gz8tl5t2f You're going to have a wee victory in a small skirmish but the big all out battle will be a crushing loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Now is not the time...[emoji849] https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/scots-to-back-independence-referendum-if-snp-leads-poll-gz8tl5t2f You're going to have a wee victory in a small skirmish but the big all out battle will be a crushing loss. Indeed I am one of those calling for IndyRef2 asap. You repeatedly mix up those calling for Indy2 with those who will vote No on it. For the voting intention, here it is. Interestingly, the link to the poll you posted also asks the "how would you vote" question to exactly the same people. Surprise surprise its 55/45 for No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBJambo Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Now is not the time...[emoji849] https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/scots-to-back-independence-referendum-if-snp-leads-poll-gz8tl5t2f You're going to have a wee victory in a small skirmish but the big all out battle will be a crushing loss. Yes but that's doesn't mean independence! Lol ?A good proportion of No voters want another referendum so we can reject it again but this time for a generation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Yes but that's doesn't mean independence! Lol ?A good proportion of No voters want another referendum so we can reject it again but this time for a generation. Im pretty sure he doesn't understand this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Indeed I am one of those calling for IndyRef2 asap. You repeatedly mix up those calling for Indy2 with those who will vote No on it. For the voting intention, here it is. Interestingly, the link to the poll you posted also asks the "how would you vote" question to exactly the same people. Surprise surprise its 55/45 for No. Yes but that's doesn't mean independence! Lol ?A good proportion of No voters want another referendum so we can reject it again but this time for a generation. You must be the only 2 daft enough Yoons to call for a second referendum with the figures being so close though. Remember, the old yins are shifting their mortal coil on and the youngsters are coming through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBJambo Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Im pretty sure he doesn't understand this. I don't think he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBJambo Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 You must be the only 2 daft enough Yoons to call for a second referendum with the figures being so close though. Remember, the old yins are shifting their mortal coil on and the youngsters are coming through. And people don't age ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 May didn't spend very long in Scotland did she? And gives her address in a hut 17 miles outside Aberdeen. Strong and stable right enough. Parliament hasn't been dissolved yet and campaigning not officially underway yet. Odd point to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 And people don't age ? Scotland has a history of being a Tory country from the 50's, sadly that was a serious long time ago and haven't featured much since. Telegraph poll putting them on 27% by the way in Scotland. If that's the best they can muster with their one trick slogan/propaganda then it's not looking too good is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 You must be the only 2 daft enough Yoons to call for a second referendum with the figures being so close though. Remember, the old yins are shifting their mortal coil on and the youngsters are coming through. No there are plenty, as the same polls you quote show the call for IndyRef2 is split between Yes and No voters. Anyway good luck hoping people die, that sums you up. But again you fail to understand - as young people enter into he system, more people become old, and as people become old, they change their perspectives and adopt a less positive outlook to change, i.e. in this case change from Yes to No. But Nicola is screwed - she has no choice but to go for Indy2 now. She enacted Section 30 and she has to do it within the current term of the Scottish Parliament, otherwise the next Scottish Parliament vote will be a proxy Indyref anyway. 55/45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Question. For both SNP & Others supporters. Let's assume for argument's sake, it's probably a fair assumption, that the SNP will lose some seats at the GE. For SNP supporters, what loss in terms of seats, would you consider a bad result? What's the threshold of acceptability? 5-10 seats? For Others, same question but flipped. What's a good result, in terms of possible gains of SNP seats? Just curious, so again please, genuine answers. Cheers. For me it takes on a local spin. Aberdeen South is forecast as a very close call between Tories and SNP. I will be happy for SNP to lose it and may vote Tory tactically. The downside is the current MP is Callum McCaig who is doing a decent job imo. But he has a problem - the election as Salmond has confirmed is all about independence, not local or UK-wide issues, so McCaig may get booted out thanks to Eck posturing about Indy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Parliament hasn't been dissolved yet and campaigning not officially underway yet. Odd point to make. Eh? It's a snap election, of course it's started. The news is full of it. She's banged on about 4 doors in Deeside and buggered off back down South. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Scotland has a history of being a Tory country from the 50's, sadly that was a serious long time ago and haven't featured much since. Telegraph poll putting them on 27% by the way in Scotland. If that's the best they can muster with their one trick slogan/propaganda then it's not looking too good is it? What the Tories get is irrelevant but it shows again you are worried. What matters is what percentage the SNP get as that translates directly into a measure of Indy support. What are they at? 40%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 No there are plenty, as the same polls you quote show the call for IndyRef2 is split between Yes and No voters. Anyway good luck hoping people die, that sums you up. But again you fail to understand - as young people enter into he system, more people become old, and as people become old, they change their perspectives and adopt a less positive outlook to change, i.e. in this case change from Yes to No. But Nicola is screwed - she has no choice but to go for Indy2 now. She enacted Section 30 and she has to do it within the current term of the Scottish Parliament, otherwise the next Scottish Parliament vote will be a proxy Indyref anyway. 55/45 You'll need to show me the last Tory landslide in Scotland. Oh, and winning say 8 seats is still a political humping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Eh? It's a snap election, of course it's started. The news is full of it. She's banged on about 4 doors in Deeside and buggered off back down South. I agree that she needs to go to higher profile areas and put the case forward. The Tories will certainly take on board the criticism and I bet next visit will be to Weeg or one of the cities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 You'll need to show me the last Tory landslide in Scotland. Oh, and winning say 8 seats is still a political humping. Tories Tories Tories. Your fear is showing. 40% for SNP will get seats thanks to fptp as the No-vote is split across the the parties but it translates to Indy support and 40% is nowhere near what they need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 I agree that she needs to go to higher profile areas and put the case forward. The Tories will certainly take on board the criticism and I bet next visit will be to Weeg or one of the cities. She came all the way to Scotland to have a party gathering in a remote hut filled with invited local supporters only? She won't even meet workers down South either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 She came all the way to Scotland to have a party gathering in a remote hut filled with invited local supporters only? She won't even meet workers down South either. Who cares? You seem to be bricking it over whatever May does. Tories can lose votes to SLab or LibDems for all I care. What you should be worried about is if the SNP share drops below 40%. Then Nicola needs to worry about Section 30. She will have to proceed and get pummelled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Media doing a decent job so far Asking questions, challenging Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 You must be the only 2 daft enough Yoons to call for a second referendum with the figures being so close though. Remember, the old yins are shifting their mortal coil on and the youngsters are coming through. Even ignoring the point that the youngsters inexorably grow older, the SNP will have to introduce compulsory euthanasia for this to work in the likely timescale before IndyRef2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Who cares? You seem to be bricking it over whatever May does. Tories can lose votes to SLab or LibDems for all I care. What you should be worried about is if the SNP share drops below 40%. Then Nicola needs to worry about Section 30. She will have to proceed and get pummelled. I'm not worried about May, I think she is a terrible PM who will do the Indy cause massive favours over the next couple of years, just in time for the next indy2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Eh? It's a snap election, of course it's started. The news is full of it. She's banged on about 4 doors in Deeside and buggered off back down South. Campaigning has begun. But the official election period has not. The Commons will sit next week on a couple days then it's done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Even ignoring the point that the youngsters inexorably grow older, the SNP will have to introduce compulsory euthanasia for this to work in the likely timescale before IndyRef2. If your point is valid, why hasn't Scotland remained a Tory heartland from the 50's and 60's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Campaigning has begun. But the official election period has not. The Commons will sit next week on a couple days then it's done. Crucially as well we don't have the manifestos yet Key statements of plans and proposals Then debate and questions can properly start Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 SNP have enough voters to win every election by a landslide but not enough to win an indpendence referendum. Interesting times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 SNP have enough voters to win every election by a landslide but not enough to win an indpendence referendum. Interesting times. SNP losing 8/10 seats would still be a good result overall. Just previous results were outstanding. Think they have made a mistake (part of a bigger strategic error) in saying election is vote for Indy ref as opponents can say it's a vote against. Even while SNP are still dominant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Thanks for answering above. This 40% you mention, is that a serious possibility? Seems like it'd take a lot of silent tactical voters doing a "last minute" in the voting booth, for that to happen, no? Spacey, what's your take. Is this feasible? Just realized I'm probably mixing two things up here, so apologies if that's the case. I was assuming it was a GE analogy, not an Indy2 one? I reckon the polls are fudged up here, I would guess the SNP are on about the same as the last Scottish Parliament ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstruck Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Now is not the time...[emoji849] https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/scots-to-back-independence-referendum-if-snp-leads-poll-gz8tl5t2f You're going to have a wee victory in a small skirmish but the big all out battle will be a crushing loss. Isn't that the epitome of your "MSM" - the media you studiously ignore? Are polls suddenly reliable again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 SNP losing 8/10 seats would still be a good result overall. Just previous results were outstanding. Think they have made a mistake (part of a bigger strategic error) in saying election is vote for Indy ref as opponents can say it's a vote against. Even while SNP are still dominant. I've yet to see any literature from the SNP saying the GE vote is about indy2 whereas the Torys have constantly used it to attract voters. It's all they have been saying up here. Meanwhile, down South, their slogan is "strong and stable" They offer nothing to the electorate except sound bites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Thanks for answering above. This 40% you mention, is that a serious possibility? Seems like it'd take a lot of silent tactical voters doing a "last minute" in the voting booth, for that to happen, no? Spacey, what's your take. Is this feasible? Just realized I'm probably mixing two things up here, so apologies if that's the case. I was assuming it was a GE analogy, not an Indy2 one? SNP are currently polling at 40%. Because Westminster is fptp and the non-Indy votes are split between Tory SLab LibDem then SNP will win a large number of seats. But when it comes to a Ref then the No votes all add together and will come to about 60% or a bit less depending on where the Green supporters choose. Spacey is obsessed with what percentage the Tories get but that means nothing. He should worry if SNP percentage drops below 40% though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Ok, ta. And for you, say SNP lose, let's say 15 seats(top of my head, as I don't know what that'd equate to in percentage swing) at the GE, would you or those you know consider that a bad night for SNP? Or, like Mikey's said, as there was huge majority anyway, put it down to swings & roundabouts? Would it not concern SNP supporters in some way, how that could maybe translate when, not if, Indyref2 comes around again? Only asking, as given politics these days, things we don't like or expect, seem to have a nasty habit of happening. The Tories are due to gain between 7-9 seats that's IF the polls are correct. It's still a massive SNP landslide even if that happens. Tories are dropping points down South which is not a surprise given the nonsense that's spouting out their gobs, the electorate aren't daft and will see through them in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 SNP are currently polling at 40%. Because Westminster is fptp and the non-Indy votes are split between Tory SLab LibDem then SNP will win a large number of seats. But when it comes to a Ref then the No votes all add together and will come to about 60% or a bit less depending on where the Green supporters choose. Spacey is obsessed with what percentage the Tories get but that means nothing. He should worry if SNP percentage drops below 40% though. 40% my hoop! You're just making stuff up now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 40% my hoop! You're just making stuff up now So what are they polling at? Try explaining this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 So what are they polling at? Try explaining this. Seems to be a lot of "Tory" type investors linked to this YouGov lot. Weird likes. https://yougov.co.uk/about/investors/shareholders/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 So what are they polling at? Try explaining this. Or try this. Puts SNP at 44% but Tories at 33%. So Spacey you can believe the SNP share and disagree with the Tory one form the same poll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Seems to be a lot of "Tory" type investors linked to this YouGov lot. Weird likes. https://yougov.co.uk/about/investors/shareholders/ lol so YouGov is biased! I should have guessed. What pollsters to SNP and WoS use again? Let me know and I'll pull their tables for all to see also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 lol so YouGov is biased! I should have guessed. What pollsters to SNP and WoS use again? Let me know and I'll pull their tables for all to see also. You must be half daft not to wonder and question why all these financial institutions are shareholders of YouGov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 You must be half daft not to wonder and question why all these financial institutions are shareholders of YouGov And remind everyone what pollsters SNP an WoS use? Do you know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 And remind everyone what pollsters SNP an WoS use? Do you know? They use a varied set, as do most. Anyway, here's the first Tory policies. No triple pension lock and VAT to rise. Happy with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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