Iain Cathro ongoing Poll and discussion Thread

[kingantti1874]

The poll is very close

Not when you take off the hobos voting stay

[Bazzas right boot]

So a poster making loads of posts reiterating his point of view over and over and over asks another poster to stop reiterating his point over and over and over.. That's a bit ironic don't you think..

 

As usual when the facts are pointed out the apologists carefully dodge them.

 

Ps - late December?

Sigh.

 

Enjoy your footballing summer.

[Hearts007]

kingantti1874, on 13 May 2017 - 10:43 PM, said:

Not when you take off the hobos voting stay

mmm. I see

[kingantti1874]

stole this from another clubs forum (not hibs.net)

 

Butchers record at Hibs compared to Cathro at Hearts:

P 29 - W 6 - D8 - L15

P 24 - W6 - D6 - L12

 

That's the reality of what we are dealing with here.. what we are doing is akin to hibs not firing terry butcher.

[Bull's-eye]

stole this from another clubs forum (not hibs.net)

 

Butchers record at Hibs compared to Cathro at Hearts:

P 29 - W 6 - D8 - L15

P 24 - W6 - D6 - L12

 

That's the reality of what we are dealing with here.. what we are doing is akin to hibs not firing terry butcher.

 

What do the stinking vermin have to do with Hearts, are you suggesting we use them as some sort of blueprint.

[Ivan Drago]

What do the stinking vermin have to do with Hearts, are you suggesting we use them as some sort of blueprint.

No he's suggesting we do the opposite. Hibs stuck with Butcher and look what happened.

[Buffalo Bill]

stole this from another clubs forum (not hibs.net)

 

Butchers record at Hibs compared to Cathro at Hearts:

P 29 - W 6 - D8 - L15

P 24 - W6 - D6 - L12

 

That's the reality of what we are dealing with here.. what we are doing is akin to hibs not firing terry butcher.

 

 

No one can argue Cathro's stats so far have made for grim reading. 

 

The difference between these two is that Terry Butcher wasn't seen as a long-term solution to where Hibs wanted to go, and they made the right choice in getting rid of him and investing in a young manager. I have no doubt if Alan Stubbs had stayed on at Hibs he would've gained promotion this season, possibly with a higher points total than Neil Lennon.

 

Ian Cathro IS seen a long-term investment for the club and will be given the chance to build his own team this summer. It is clear that the current squad needs gutting and that we can only properly judge Cathro once he has assembled his own squad.

 

If Terry Butcher had been our manager this season with the same record, I wouldn't be defending him.

 

But I think Cathro is worth more than Terry Butcher.

 

Comparing stats like for like doesn't always give you the true picture.

 

.

[Bull's-eye]

No he's suggesting we do the opposite. Hibs stuck with Butcher and look what happened.

Using the stinking vermin as any sort of guide for anything to do with Hearts is scandalous.

[kingantti1874]

What do the stinking vermin have to do with Hearts, are you suggesting we use them as some sort of blueprint.

Not at all, we all pissed ourselves laughing on here at how butchers record at hibs took them down with the jambos. If you can't see the irony I'm not going to waste my time explaining it.

[deejtee]

No one can argue Cathro's stats so far have made for grim reading. 

 

The difference between these two is that Terry Butcher wasn't seen as a long-term solution to where Hibs wanted to go, and they made the right choice in getting rid of him and investing in a young manager. I have no doubt if Alan Stubbs had stayed on at Hibs he would've gained promotion this season, possibly with a higher points total than Neil Lennon.

 

Ian Cathro IS seen a long-term investment for the club and will be given the chance to build his own team this summer. It is clear that the current squad needs gutting and that we can only properly judge Cathro once he has assembled his own squad.

 

If Terry Butcher had been our manager this season with the same record, I wouldn't be defending him.

 

But I think Cathro is worth more than Terry Butcher.

 

Comparing stats like for like doesn't always give you the true picture.

 

.

I don't agree that Cathro is a long term investment. He is a bit of a gamble that so far isn't working at all. The long term plan being invested in is Craig Levein's model which started well but has taken several big steps backwards. In the event of Cathro being as good as some on here believe he won't be a long term investment as he would head the way of any successful player. I think that is less likely than him recognising this job was too much too soon and taking a lower profile job to develop in. In the meantime I am enjoying watching the new stand taking shape more than watching our team.

[kingantti1874]

No one can argue Cathro's stats so far have made for grim reading.

 

The difference between these two is that Terry Butcher wasn't seen as a long-term solution to where Hibs wanted to go, and they made the right choice in getting rid of him and investing in a young manager. I have no doubt if Alan Stubbs had stayed on at Hibs he would've gained promotion this season, possibly with a higher points total than Neil Lennon.

 

Ian Cathro IS seen a long-term investment for the club and will be given the chance to build his own team this summer. It is clear that the current squad needs gutting and that we can only properly judge Cathro once he has assembled his own squad.

 

If Terry Butcher had been our manager this season with the same record, I wouldn't be defending him.

 

But I think Cathro is worth more than Terry Butcher.

 

Comparing stats like for like doesn't always give you the true picture.

 

.

Bill what are you talking about mate? Long term solution? .. If he does a great job he will leave like Neilston did.. and we will be back where we started. All that matters is now..

 

The most important thing in my opinion is ensuring that momentum off the park is continued and that we continue to achieve the gates we currently do and even increase them. The revenues generated from off the field is what will enable hearts to compete in the way we want in future - not the short term ideas of a manager who regardless of whether he continues his current poor record or turns into the next SAF over the summer won't be here in 2019.. Currently, like it or not, IC being in place is potentially damaging.

 

PS his record is beyond grim.. Absolutely horrendous

[bauld willie]

No one can argue Cathro's stats so far have made for grim reading.

 

The difference between these two is that Terry Butcher wasn't seen as a long-term solution to where Hibs wanted to go, and they made the right choice in getting rid of him and investing in a young manager. I have no doubt if Alan Stubbs had stayed on at Hibs he would've gained promotion this season, possibly with a higher points total than Neil Lennon.

 

Ian Cathro IS seen a long-term investment for the club and will be given the chance to build his own team this summer. It is clear that the current squad needs gutting and that we can only properly judge Cathro once he has assembled his own squad.

 

If Terry Butcher had been our manager this season with the same record, I wouldn't be defending him.

 

But I think Cathro is worth more than Terry Butcher.

 

Comparing stats like for like doesn't always give you the true picture.

 

.

Talk about ignoring reality.

 

Butcher earned a job at Easter Road after first proving himself, especially at Inverness. He was an outstanding captain of the blue filth and England so has forgotten more about football than than Cathro has ever learned. How do you know he wasn't intended as their long term solution. Thankfully his tenure at Hibs was an abject failure but you can't take away his previous history.

 

Cathro has never kicked a ball in his life, has no managerial experience whatsoever, has questionable presence and is the worst manager in our history.

[Hearts007]

bauld willie, on 14 May 2017 - 10:42 AM, said:

Talk about ignoring reality.

 

Butcher earned a job at Easter Road after first proving himself, especially at Inverness. He was an outstanding captain of the blue filth and England so has forgotten more about football than than Cathro has ever learned. His do you know he wasn't intended as their long term solution. Thankfully his tenure at Hibs was an abject failure but you can't take away his previous history.

 

Cathro has never kicked a ball in his life, has no managerial experience whatsoever, has questionable presence and is the worst manager in our history.

Apart from that he's no bad

[Buffalo Bill]

Bill what are you talking about mate? Long term solution? .. If he does a great job he will leave like Neilston did.. All the matters is now..and we will be back where we started.

 

 

I believe that he'll be here for several years.  Perhaps 'long-term' is stretching it a bit.

 

This season is a write-off. The DoF has admitted the last two windows have been poor (I think the last three have been poor) so we need to change our direction and get this next one right.  

 

I am very confident we'll improve next season and from then onwards.

[Bull's-eye]

Not at all, we all pissed ourselves laughing on here at how butchers record at hibs took them down with the jambos. If you can't see the irony I'm not going to waste my time explaining it.

No way on earth will Cathro be taking us down so what's your point.

[Buffalo Bill]

Talk about ignoring reality.

 

Butcher earned a job at Easter Road after first proving himself, especially at Inverness. He was an outstanding captain of the blue filth and England so has forgotten more about football than than Cathro has ever learned. How do you know he wasn't intended as their long term solution. Thankfully his tenure at Hibs was an abject failure but you can't take away his previous history.

 

Cathro has never kicked a ball in his life, has no managerial experience whatsoever, has questionable presence and is the worst manager in our history.

 

 

Some of the greatest managers in history never or hardly kicked a ball professionally so where does that leave your argument?

 

Butcher was a decent, old-school journeyman club manager but no more than that. 

 

You're so far down the Kris Boyd route here I'm beginning to think you're over-weight Kilmarnock striker who writes for The Sun.

 

Let's see what happens next season.

[kingantti1874]

No way on earth will Cathro be taking us down so what's your point.

That he quite possibly could have had he been in place from the start of the season.. That, by his own words "he's had enough time", that the team under his stewardship have failed which will have a negative impact on ST's and future income, that's he's done nothing during his time to suggest he is able to get the best from a team, any suggestions he has a long term plan are either inaccurate or irrelevant..

 

In short.. His times up.. Any way you look at it he's done nothing to suggest it's worthwhile continuing with the gamble.. And if we persist with it tool long we risk next season being as bad as this one..

 

Once we lose fans, it will be very hard to get them back..

[kingantti1874]

Some of the greatest managers in history never or hardly kicked a ball professionally so where does that leave your argument?

 

Butcher was a decent, old-school journeyman club manager but no more than that.

 

You're so far down the Kris Boyd route here I'm beginning to think you're over-weight Kilmarnock striker who writes for The Sun.

 

Let's see what happens next season.

All the greatest managers in history brought something positive in their first role. Cathro?

[Nookie Bear]

No way on earth will Cathro be taking us down so what's your point.

In fairness, we can only go on the form book so far and we are relegation candidates.

 

But he would not be allowed to stay past Christmas on this form and I doubt we will be this bad next season anyway.

[Nookie Bear]

Some of the greatest managers in history never or hardly kicked a ball professionally so where does that leave your argument?

 

Butcher was a decent, old-school journeyman club manager but no more than that. 

 

You're so far down the Kris Boyd route here I'm beginning to think you're over-weight Kilmarnock striker who writes for The Sun.

 

Let's see what happens next season.

So who is winning the argument, based on results, so far: Boyd or Sutton?

[sairyinthat]

Talk about ignoring reality.

 

Butcher earned a job at Easter Road after first proving himself, especially at Inverness. He was an outstanding captain of the blue filth and England so has forgotten more about football than than Cathro has ever learned. How do you know he wasn't intended as their long term solution. Thankfully his tenure at Hibs was an abject failure but you can't take away his previous history.

 

Cathro has never kicked a ball in his life, has no managerial experience whatsoever, has questionable presence and is the worst manager in our history.

History attained over a number of years Not Four months.What leaves you to assume I.C will not surpass Butcher with ease?

[Bull's-eye]

That he quite possibly could have had he been in place from the start of the season.. That, by his own words "he's had enough time", that the team under his stewardship have failed which will have a negative impact on ST's and future income, that's he's done nothing during his time to suggest he is able to get the best from a team, any suggestions he has a long term plan are either inaccurate or irrelevant..

 

In short.. His times up.. Any way you look at it he's done nothing to suggest it's worthwhile continuing with the gamble.. And if we persist with it tool long we risk next season being as bad as this one..

 

Once we lose fans, it will be very hard to get them back..

One win brings the fans back on here....

[mitch41]

On saturday we lost to one of the worst Rangers teams of all time in what must be the worst Scottish Premiership / Top Division's in history. How bad do Hearts have to get before we get a board that wakens up and give it's fans a decent Hearts team with a management that knows what it's doing. The teams in this league except Celtic are terrible which should tell every Hearts minded person we have to change and that should start with a new Manager.

[kingantti1874]

One win brings the fans back on here....

On here? How long have you been following hearts.. It took a series of extraordinary events to "activate" our current following.. If they drift away from games it will be hard to get them back.

[skacel02]

Some of the greatest managers in history never or hardly kicked a ball professionally so where does that leave your argument?

 

Butcher was a decent, old-school journeyman club manager but no more than that. 

 

You're so far down the Kris Boyd route here I'm beginning to think you're over-weight Kilmarnock striker who writes for The Sun.

 

Let's see what happens next season.

 

Like who? I'm assuming you're referring to the likes Wenger and Mourinho? Even if they didn't consistently play at a high level they were still footballers

[VALDOS]

Alan Preston talks some utter tosh, but yesterday after the short lived equalizer he pointed out to the guys in the studio that "this was consistant with form and the fans had become used to it". Thats the concerning thing, if this had be JJ or somebody of similar age protests to have have them out would be in full flow, theres no doubt about it. This guys age and lack of knowledge goes against him all over the playing staff, but the support seem to use it in his defence.

[davemclaren]

On saturday we lost to one of the worst Rangers teams of all time in what must be the worst Scottish Premiership / Top Division's in history. How bad do Hearts have to get before we get a board that wakens up and give it's fans a decent Hearts team with a management that knows what it's doing. The teams in this league except Celtic are terrible which should tell every Hearts minded person we have to change and that should start with a new Manager.

10/10 for consistency. The Rangers team, since yesterday, has gone from the worst to one of the worst. Now we have the worst top division in history. Regardless, if things don't improve a couple of months into the new season you may well get your wish. Hope it doesn't come to that.

[Bull's-eye]

On here? How long have you been following hearts.. It took a series of extraordinary events to "activate" our current following.. If they drift away from games it will be hard to get them back.

Oh well.

 

If those types of supporter chuck their toys out of the pram after a sticky patch then I for one will be more than happy to see the back them.

 

If supporters give up on the club then don't be surprised when the club gives up on the support.

[Bazzas right boot]

On here? How long have you been following hearts.. It took a series of extraordinary events to "activate" our current following.. If they drift away from games it will be hard to get them back.

 

 

Yip and the first bump since these events has certain fans leaving.

 

Powder puff, imo.

 

Either we'll improve under Cathro or he'll be gone by the first round of fixtures.

 

You can either spend the next 3/4 months saying the same thing over and over, don't support us ( by that I mean renew) or get behind the team and players.

 

I myself, will get behind the new signings and Cathro with the expectation of immediate improvement next season. If this doesn't happen Budge will make changes, its what she does.

 

Or you can continue to demand something that isn't going to happen, go in the huff and continue  the crusade against the head coach and players of the team you " support", to what purpose, I do not know.

[mitch41]

10/10 for consistency. The Rangers team, since yesterday, has gone from the worst to one of the worst. Now we have the worst top division in history. Regardless, if things don't improve a couple of months into the new season you may well get your wish. Hope it doesn't come to that.

John Greig's last season as manager of Rangers in the early 80's was bad. But the quality of player now in our league is way below where it should be. Hearts as a club are to blame for our own

inadequancies. We must and should be better than the rest and never accept second best.

[Bazzas right boot]

Alan Preston talks some utter tosh, but yesterday after the short lived equalizer he pointed out to the guys in the studio that "this was consistant with form and the fans had become used to it". Thats the concerning thing, if this had be JJ or somebody of similar age protests to have have them out would be in full flow, theres no doubt about it. This guys age and lack of knowledge goes against him all over the playing staff, but the support seem to use it in his defence.

 

Lack of Knowledge... in what aspect.?

He does lack experience  In being the number one at a club, but not in coaching at a very high level. Arguably the highest bar Rodgers  in the league.

 

Age, don't mix up experience and age.  Christ is the new man in charge of France under 40.

 

The reason the protest are not in full flow is nothing to do with what you say, its about giving the guy a chance in a full window and time to build as he was chucked in during January. My reasons for keeping Cathro having nothing to do with what you say, it is for the practical reasons I mentioned, that would be the same for any manager/ coach.

 

If the transfer window is percieved as poor and we have a poor start in the lc and league , he will lose all support. This is reasonable as he would have had a full window and time to build his team.

[kingantti1874]

Oh well.

 

If those types of supporter chuck their toys out of the pram after a sticky patch then I for one will be more than happy to see the back them.

 

If supporters give up on the club then don't be surprised when the club gives up on the support.

Ridiculous naive view which the club will not share..

[kingantti1874]

Yip and the first bump since these events has certain fans leaving.

 

Powder puff, imo.

 

Either we'll improve under Cathro or he'll be gone by the first round of fixtures.

 

You can either spend the next 3/4 months saying the same thing over and over, don't support us ( by that I mean renew) or get behind the team and players.

 

I myself, will get behind the new signings and Cathro with the expectation of immediate improvement next season. If this doesn't happen Budge will make changes, its what she does.

 

Or you can continue to demand something that isn't going to happen, go in the huff and continue the crusade against the head coach and players of the team you " support", to what purpose, I do not know.

I support the team in the stadium every week - doesn't stop me voicing an opinion on here.... I believe out club will be best served by expediting his departure.

[Lucille's Thirsty]

I guarentee if we stick with Cathro next year it'll be another wasted season as we'll at best be inconsistent or worst keep on losing and it sounds as though some Jambos are OK with that if we show a bit of grit like we did yesterday against a very bad Rangers side but once again we still lost.

[Toxteth O'Grady]

 

Cathro has never kicked a ball in his life, has no managerial experience whatsoever, has questionable presence and is the worst manager in our history.

Also the teams where he has been assistant coach didn't have much success while he was there so it is an absolute mystery how he was chosen to be our head coach. What was the selection criteria? 

[OmiyaHearts]

Also the teams where he has been assistant coach didn't have much success while he was there so it is an absolute mystery how he was chosen to be our head coach. What was the selection criteria?

Like most of our appointments, he's spent a bit of time at Dundee Utd.

That's all you need.

[Bull's-eye]

Ridiculous naive view which the club will not share..

Your view of what the club thinks is about as warped as it can get.

 

Cathro is still in the job for the foreseeable future and the quicker you join the dots and realise it the better.

 

That's the clubs view.

[kingantti1874]

Your view of what the club thinks is about as warped as it can get.

 

Cathro is still in the job for the foreseeable future and the quicker you join the dots and realise it the better.

 

That's the clubs view.

Oh i realise it.. Doesn't mean I'm not right. the club are not happy, and are concerned about cathros complete and utter failure to this point and are worried about the impact on ticket sales. Not enough to get rid I grant you..

[davemclaren]

Oh i realise it.. Doesn't mean I'm not right. the club are not happy, and are concerned about cathros complete and utter failure to this point and are worried about the impact on ticket sales. Not enough to get rid I grant you..

They are bound to be concerned.

[Bazzas right boot]

I support the team in the stadium every week - doesn't stop me voicing an opinion on here.... I believe out club will be best served by expediting his departure.

 

and  you could be right.

 

 

But Budge doesn't believe that, so going this you have a choice , accept this in the short term and get behind him or continue your crusade.

 

 

TBH, you were slagging Cathro off on the match day thread, it suggests you aren't supporting the team every week and have a sole focus above all else.

 

If you must continue your mission through out the summer, this is the thread to do it in tho.  

[Bazzas right boot]

I guarentee if we stick with Cathro next year it'll be another wasted season as we'll at best be inconsistent or worst keep on losing and it sounds as though some Jambos are OK with that if we show a bit of grit like we did yesterday against a very bad Rangers side but once again we still lost.

 

 

Shite, you can't do that.

 

That rangers side has too one side at home all year, thier shiteness is exagerted by the media and thier fans who compare them to the side  with Laudrop etc: in them.

 

As a SPL side they are ok, especially at home.

[VALDOS]

Lack of Knowledge... in what aspect.?

He does lack experience In being the number one at a club, but not in coaching at a very high level. Arguably the highest bar Rodgers in the league.

 

Age, don't mix up experience and age. Christ is the new man in charge of France under 40.

 

The reason the protest are not in full flow is nothing to do with what you say, its about giving the guy a chance in a full window and time to build as he was chucked in during January. My reasons for keeping Cathro having nothing to do with what you say, it is for the practical reasons I mentioned, that would be the same for any manager/ coach.

 

If the transfer window is percieved as poor and we have a poor start in the lc and league , he will lose all support. This is reasonable as he would have had a full window and time to build his team.

knowledge gained from managing is obviously non exsistent, as may people in football will say the same, switching from assistant/no2 to the main hotseat is quite a jump to say the least. He has been at Valencia and was there due to a partnership with the then manager who brought him along from Rio. In terms of time, no he doesnt have experience at all. Its like the scottish players that go abroad, the media seem to then think they must be so much better because of it, when there is nothing to back that up. Ryan Gauld being an example from a playing point of view, what an absolute disaster that has been for the lad.

[siegementality]

On saturday we lost to one of the worst Rangers teams of all time in what must be the worst Scottish Premiership / Top Division's in history. How bad do Hearts have to get before we get a board that wakens up and give it's fans a decent Hearts team with a management that knows what it's doing. The teams in this league except Celtic are terrible which should tell every Hearts minded person we have to change and that should start with a new Manager.

You have battered the shit out of that drum. Give it a rest ffs!

[RobbofordGHC]

It's like the Emperor's new clothes. People so excited about the new brand of football our coaching and tactical genius was going to have us playing that they can't admit there's an imposter in the dugout with his baws hanging out.

[siegementality]

From the BBC website article:

 

Cowie said: "I firmly believe we have a tremendous manager, and we need to stick by him and get through this."

 

Strange just how many football people think highly of Cathro, or maybe Don Cowie doesn't know what he's talking about either eh, after all he only works with Cathro every day.

[siegementality]

From the BBC website article:

Cowie said: "I firmly believe we have a tremendous manager, and we need to stick by him and get through this."

Strange just how many football people think highly of Cathro, or maybe Don Cowie doesn't know what he's talking about either eh, after all he only works with Cathro every day.

Paterson, another clueless one:

 

Paterson said: ?When you lose against your rivals, you go to work the next day and your workmates are taking the mickey out of you. It obviously hurts but stick by the manager, 100 per cent.

 

?He?s one of the best managers I?ve ever worked under and his tactical brain is incredible. He will come good.

 

?Honestly, he is brilliant. His tactical mind and everything is unbelievable.

[siegementality]

And as for Isma, he hasn't got a clue either!!!

 

Goncalves worked under the 30-year-old at Rio Ave, where Cathro was assistant manager, in Portugal.

 

"I know how he works and, if you give him time, you will see amazing things here," he said.

 

"Inside of me, I am sure next season you will see what Ian is really capable of doing.

 

Hearts owner Ann Budge issued a statement on Thursday in which she stressed that Cathro was in charge of picking the team amid speculation about the role of former manager and present director of football Craig Levein.

 

Goncalves, who was signed by Cathro from Anorthosis Famagusta in January, insists that the Hearts players have confidence in the head coach.

 

"You can see there's a lot of pressure on him, but he has a plan he must follow to the end and must not change because we lost two or three games," said the 25-year-old striker.

 

"All the players trust him that his plan is going to work because we see in training what he is saying and what we do is clear and everybody is understanding what is his plan.

 

"I think every players trusts him and has confidence in him."

[The Real Maroonblood]

 A narrow defeat to a crap Rangers boosts his support

That made me smile.

[Buffalo Bill]

All the greatest managers in history brought something positive in their first role. Cathro?

 

Wait an see. We can't fully judge him when he's only at the beginning using another man's squad of players.

 

So who is winning the argument, based on results, so far: Boyd or Sutton?

 

Based on results, Boyd is out on front but doesn't get that it takes time to build one's own squad and implement changes. Sutton will win the war.

 

On saturday we lost to one of the worst Rangers teams of all time in what must be the worst Scottish Premiership / Top Division's in history. How bad do Hearts have to get before we get a board that wakens up and give it's fans a decent Hearts team with a management that knows what it's doing. The teams in this league except Celtic are terrible which should tell every Hearts minded person we have to change and that should start with a new Manager.

 

Spare us the melodrama. As much as I disagree with Kingantti1874, he can at least have a reasonable debate without the tears and snotters you bring to every post.

 

Like who? I'm assuming you're referring to the likes Wenger and Mourinho? Even if they didn't consistently play at a high level they were still footballers

 

Well in that case, Cathro was a footballer too. Forfar was it?

 

 

I was also thinking Carlos Alberto Parreira, Arrigo Sacchi, Gerard Houllier, Bill Struth, Guy Roux.

 

Likewise, I can think of plenty of top footballers who flopped in management and others who were too scared to try it.

 

.

[Lucille's Thirsty]

Shite, you can't do that.

 

That rangers side has too one side at home all year, thier shiteness is exagerted by the media and thier fans who compare them to the side with Laudrop etc: in them.

 

As a SPL side they are ok, especially at home.

They are as average as they come it says a lot about them mate when we IMO deserve something with 10 men against them,when we were struggling against Partick with 11 men.

 

Are you happy too keep Cathro if we keep losing games but show a bit of fight?

 

Cathro will not take us nowhere.