More Tory lies

[SwindonJambo]

2 hours ago, Arnold Rothstein said:

 

So they should just get away with paying less tax than me on PAYE? No one is suggesting doing this INSTEAD of closing tax loopholes btw before you throw that back at anyone.

 

The former is tax evasion which is specifically illegal as tax due under the rules is not being paid.

 

The latter is tax avoidance which, currently perfectly legal will hopefully soon be made illegal by closure of loopholes.

 

clear distinction. 

[Arnold Rothstein]

9 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said:

 

The former is tax evasion which is specifically illegal as tax due under the rules is not being paid.

 

The latter is tax avoidance which, currently perfectly legal will hopefully soon be made illegal by closure of loopholes.

 

clear distinction. 

 

Emm yeah, i know that.

[SwindonJambo]

5 minutes ago, Arnold Rothstein said:

 

Emm yeah, i know that.

 

Yes, I know you know that. I was just kind of underlining your point. I’m not holding my breath about much being done about the legal loopholes for big tax I.e. offshoring and such the like. It’s largely only the super-rich who are in any position to take advantage of them, most of whom vote Tory and some of whom even contribute to Party coffers. They’ll tinker around the edges to try to convince the public they’re tackling it when in reality they’re not really.

 

We must be amongst the World’s worst for facilitating aggressive large scale tax avoidance with overseas territories and crown dependencies all over the shop and tens of billions in potential tax receipts leaking out of the system while public services creak at the seams.

[jack D and coke]

3 hours ago, Irufushi said:

 

 

Rightly so, people who do homers are tax frauds. 

 

[Irufushi]

22 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

 

 

Rumbled? ?

[deesidejambo]

5 hours ago, Sraman said:

 

Calculating Standard Deviation is simple O Grade Mathematics. That is all I claimed but just for you the (best guess) data required is held by HMRC i.e. How many people and how much each person earns. That's it. That is all the data you need. How to get it, stand for election or study o grade maths and join the Civil Service.

 

Using standard deviation points to determine the bands is OK (to a reasonable degree) for the centre ground but there must be cut offs at either end of the scale which should be treated differently i.e. no tax and super hefty, mega, shitload tax. This is the name of the highest of the three tax bands in the top end cut off in this "perfect" scenario, the other two being super hefty and super hefty, mega. The three bands in the lower end are no, very light and light tax. There could be as many bands in the middle ground as you see fit but I would imagine 4 or 5 should do it. 

 

Should I elaborate further or does the above quench your thirst for my knowledge?

 

 

And you just demonstrate my point.

 

in ordet to calculate the standard deviation points, you need to know the full distribution in the first place.  And that can only be found by asking everyone to submit their income, including dividend income, rental income, other incomes, and subtract expenses.   

 

Only then can you calculate the mean and standard deviation, after which you can determine the cutoff points.

 

so in practice you can only find out how much tax everyone owes after every single person has submitted their income and expense return, meaning tax bills would have to be requested a year later than currently.  You seem to think that would be acceptable.  I can’t see that as being sensible.

 

imo this is impractical and would not be understood by many in the public, hence my point that you disagree with.

 

but crack on.  Just type some numbers into a calculator and the tax is magically paid.

 

 

[Space Mackerel]

14 hours ago, Arnold Rothstein said:

 

So they should just get away with paying less tax than me on PAYE? No one is suggesting doing this INSTEAD of closing tax loopholes btw before you throw that back at anyone.

 

How could the BBC get something so fundamentally wrong? This is either gross incompetence (which doesn’t stick) or manufacturing completely false news at the bequest of the Establishment and the Tory Party. 

 

https://skwawkbox.org/2017/11/23/bbc-forced-to-publicly-correct-after-skwawkbox-exposes-fake-news/

[jambo lodge]

18 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

How could the BBC get something so fundamentally wrong? This is either gross incompetence (which doesn’t stick) or manufacturing completely false news at the bequest of the Establishment and the Tory Party. 

 

https://skwawkbox.org/2017/11/23/bbc-forced-to-publicly-correct-after-skwawkbox-exposes-fake-news/

 

Its very easy for the BBC or other news outlets to get Corbyn wrong, he uses the same clichés every time he speaks. One speech fits all.........bit like the whinging Nicola. 

[Space Mackerel]

9 minutes ago, jambo lodge said:

 

Its very easy for the BBC or other news outlets to get Corbyn wrong, he uses the same clichés every time he speaks. One speech fits all.........bit like the whinging Nicola. 

 

Lol. Your deflecting is something else auld yin. Slowly your realising that your beloved BBC is nothing more than an arm of the ruling elite/establishment. 

 

May (no pun intended) I remind you of Treeza’s “Sure and stable” that absolutely shattered her GE result. 

[jambo lodge]

19 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Lol. Your deflecting is something else auld yin. Slowly your realising that your beloved BBC is nothing more than an arm of the ruling elite/establishment. 

 

May (no pun intended) I remind you of Treeza’s “Sure and stable” that absolutely shattered her GE result. 

 

Don't love the BBC at all, they are fighting hard to try and  keep the UK in Europe despite the clear referendum result. Whether you believe it or not they also bring up the topic of Independence at every opportunity.   

[Sraman]

9 hours ago, deesidejambo said:

And you just demonstrate my point.

 

in ordet to calculate the standard deviation points, you need to know the full distribution in the first place.  And that can only be found by asking everyone to submit their income, including dividend income, rental income, other incomes, and subtract expenses.   

 

Only then can you calculate the mean and standard deviation, after which you can determine the cutoff points.

 

so in practice you can only find out how much tax everyone owes after every single person has submitted their income and expense return, meaning tax bills would have to be requested a year later than currently.  You seem to think that would be acceptable.  I can’t see that as being sensible.

 

imo this is impractical and would not be understood by many in the public, hence my point that you disagree with.

 

but crack on.  Just type some numbers into a calculator and the tax is magically paid.

 

 

 

 

You seem to have difficulty with O grade English as well as O grade Mathematics. 

 

 

 

[Space Mackerel]

12 minutes ago, jambo lodge said:

 

Don't love the BBC at all, they are fighting hard to try and  keep the UK in Europe despite the clear referendum result. Whether you believe it or not they also bring up the topic of Independence at every opportunity.   

 

It brings it up to knock it at every opportunity you mean.

 

And as for Brexit, moaning about not getting a free trade deal when there’s one already in place, you cannae make stuff like that up! ? Utter lunacy!  

[jambo lodge]

2 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

It brings it up to knock it at every opportunity you mean.

 

And as for Brexit, moaning about not getting a free trade deal when there’s one already in place, you cannae make stuff like that up! ? Utter lunacy!  

 

Wow that's some definition of "free trade deal" when the UK is going to save £8.6b per annum on leaving the EU.

[Space Mackerel]

58 minutes ago, jambo lodge said:

 

Wow that's some definition of "free trade deal" when the UK is going to save £8.6b per annum on leaving the EU.

 

 

Youre not going to get a free free trade deal without paying into the EU like Norway etc do, why does that not enter your tiny uneducated mind I’ll never know. 

[Arnold Rothstein]

6 hours ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

How could the BBC get something so fundamentally wrong? This is either gross incompetence (which doesn’t stick) or manufacturing completely false news at the bequest of the Establishment and the Tory Party. 

 

https://skwawkbox.org/2017/11/23/bbc-forced-to-publicly-correct-after-skwawkbox-exposes-fake-news/

 

What’s that got to do with someone not declaring all their income for tax purposes?

[Hasselhoff]

On 21/11/2017 at 12:06, deesidejambo said:

 

Very disappointing.   Not sure if there are some underlying reasons for this but to me its not acceptable.   Them Tories eh?

 

Animal feeling story shared far and wide yet not true

 

https://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/independent-animal-sentience?utm_term=.hfoLvPN2E#.npJ7qGyoX

 

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

19 minutes ago, Hunky Dory said:

"We're not paying anything towards a divorce bill upon leaving the EU"

 

"The most we will pay is 30billion"

 

"Fine, we'll pay 100billion"

 

Shambles.

 

Being reported on Sky News that it's between £45bn - £55bn which is less than the £60bn Brussels had demanded.

[deesidejambo]

On 25/11/2017 at 10:54, Sraman said:

 

 

You seem to have difficulty with O grade English as well as O grade Mathematics. 

 

 

 

Given that you are not able to answer the simple question as to what data needs to be input in order to calculate the SD for tax purposes you just prove my point that some are not versed in it.  You in particular.

 

But bang on professor.

 

looks like my Maths PhD was a waste of time.

 

[deesidejambo]

On the Council Shortfalls.   Don’t they have the ability to fund their Budgets via the Council Tax?

 

The SNP blaming it on Westminster is the same old grievance politics by a diddy Govt.  

[deesidejambo]

Thé diddies will bang on about the nasty evil baby-eating Tories as a means to stoke grievance.    Fine by me as it won’t work.

 

but the real downfall of the SNP will be Labour who will continue to make progress and potentially win the next UK GE.    Thereby pulling the rug out from under the diddies who will no longer have the nasty Tories card to play.

 

go Jeremy.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 minute ago, Hunky Dory said:

 

They've assumed liabilities totaling 100billion.  That means that total outlay could be as much as 100billion.  Quite a difference from their original perceived bill of 0.

 

The perceived bill of 0 was advocated by a very few, Boris Johnston being one of them, whilst in the real world everyone else knew that the UK would have to honour it's commitments, and if that final bill is £100bn then it's £100bn, it's that or walk away and have a so called 'Hard Brexit', what would you rather have.

[jambo lodge]

32 minutes ago, Hunky Dory said:

 

They've assumed liabilities totaling 100billion.  That means that total outlay could be as much as 100billion.  Quite a difference from their original perceived bill of 0.

 

Nonsense, the EU always talk in terms of euros and the final bill for pensions may be decades away. The pound to euro has increased significantly tonight so both the EU and the UK government playing with numbers. The saving to the UK from exiting will be circa £8.6b per annum so not a long payback whichever way you calculate the bill.

[ri Alban]

7 hours ago, deesidejambo said:

Thé diddies will bang on about the nasty evil baby-eating Tories as a means to stoke grievance.    Fine by me as it won’t work.

 

but the real downfall of the SNP will be Labour who will continue to make progress and potentially win the next UK GE.    Thereby pulling the rug out from under the diddies who will no longer have the nasty Tories card to play.

 

go Jeremy.

Go Jeremy? You voted for the Paedos did you not. Better to vote for the diddies than the fecking Paedos. Now you're voting for the commies. Anybody as long as Scotland are English own , I bit like you. Stockholmer/Traitor/Quisling, take your pick, or take them all.

 

Edited November 29, 2017 by ri Alban

[deesidejambo]

Indeed I voted tactically for the Tories to keep the diddies out.   And it worked in my constituency.

 

unlike you I vote on whatever issues are relevant to me at the time of the vote so next time I will be back to Labour or maybe LibDem depending on their position on taxation.

 

you however, and other non-thinking sheep will vote SNP no matter what.

[Geoff the Mince]

3 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Go Jeremy? You voted for the Paedos did you not. Better to vote for the diddies than the fecking Paedos. Now you're voting for the commies. Anybody as long as Scotland are English own , I bit like you. Stockholmer/Traitor/Quisling, take your pick, or take them all.

 

Are you the Scottish version of ISIS  ? 

[Jam Tarts 1874]

11 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Being reported on Sky News that it's between £45bn - £55bn which is less than the £60bn Brussels had demanded.

 

So much for Maybot's tough negotiations.  She has caved in on every point so far.

[SE16 3LN]

4 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Go Jeremy? You voted for the Paedos did you not. Better to vote for the diddies than the fecking Paedos. Now you're voting for the commies. Anybody as long as Scotland are English own , I bit like you. Stockholmer/Traitor/Quisling, take your pick, or take them all.

 

If this is real in your mind seek help before you harm yourself or worse, others.

[Boris]

6 minutes ago, Jam Tarts 1874 said:

 

So much for Maybot's tough negotiations.  She has caved in on every point so far.

 

I thought this piece was relevant to your comment above.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/28/brexit-talks-for-all-britains-bluster-the-eu-has-it-over-a-barrel

[Jam Tarts 1874]

Just now, Boris said:

 

I thought this piece was relevant to your comment above.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/28/brexit-talks-for-all-britains-bluster-the-eu-has-it-over-a-barrel

 

Thanks Boris, hadn't looked at this article yet.  Sums it all up, our European cousins must be having a good laugh at our expense.

[deesidejambo]

2 minutes ago, Jam Tarts 1874 said:

 

Thanks Boris, hadn't looked at this article yet.  Sums it all up, our European cousins must be having a good laugh at our expense.

 

2 minutes ago, Jam Tarts 1874 said:

 

Thanks Boris, hadn't looked at this article yet.  Sums it all up, our European cousins must be having a good laugh at our expense.

And we expected anything different? 

 

 

[SE16 3LN]

4 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

I thought this piece was relevant to your comment above.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/28/brexit-talks-for-all-britains-bluster-the-eu-has-it-over-a-barrel

Very much true, and there has to be a point where walking over the cliff is no worse than paying the bribe.. One thing we have learnt from this is that the EU members states are a bunch of money grabbing, Totalitarian *******s who care nothing about the economic realities of Europe or their own working people. It almost makes you glad that we're leaving.

[Boris]

2 minutes ago, Jam Tarts 1874 said:

 

Thanks Boris, hadn't looked at this article yet.  Sums it all up, our European cousins must be having a good laugh at our expense.

 

The thing that really pees me off about all of this, isn't actually about leaving the EU.  There are many reasonable arguments for doing so.

 

What is concerning is that the negotiations, if you can call them such, are being led by a minority Government, with no clear objective or outcome.  The ideological zealotry of the likes of Gove, Fox et al is, IMO, going to be really damaging to this country.

 

We hear talk of "the will of the people", yet, again IMO, the people are being sold down the river by these free trade snake oil salesmen.  It's bloody scary!  

[Cade]

"Divorce bill" so far:

 

EU: A bare minimum of £50bn

UK: you're getting nothing from us

EU: £50bn

UK: 10

EU: 50

UK: 20

EU: 50

UK: 30

EU: 50

UK: 40

EU: 50

UK: 50

EU: Good, now let's talk about the Irish border

Edited November 29, 2017 by Cade

[Jam Tarts 1874]

1 minute ago, deesidejambo said:

 

And we expected anything different? 

 

 

 

Indeed, the leavers fell for it hook, line and sinker. 

[Cade]

1 minute ago, Cade said:

.

.

Edited November 29, 2017 by Cade

[Boris]

2 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

Very much true, and there has to be a point where walking over the cliff is no worse than paying the bribe.. One thing we have learnt from this is that the EU members states are a bunch of money grabbing, Totalitarian *******s who care nothing about the economic realities of Europe or their own working people. It almost makes you glad that we're leaving.

 

In what sense?

 

Is a cliff edge brexit in the best interests of the British People?  I very much doubt it.  This is going to feck up the UK for a long time to come.

 

 

[Jam Tarts 1874]

1 minute ago, Boris said:

 

The thing that really pees me off about all of this, isn't actually about leaving the EU.  There are many reasonable arguments for doing so.

 

What is concerning is that the negotiations, if you can call them such, are being led by a minority Government, with no clear objective or outcome.  The ideological zealotry of the likes of Gove, Fox et al is, IMO, going to be really damaging to this country.

 

We hear talk of "the will of the people", yet, again IMO, the people are being sold down the river by these free trade snake oil salesmen.  It's bloody scary!  

 

I suspect that there are many on the EU side who would prefer that the Tories be forced into another General Election, so that we can have a proper settlement instead of our current Government's constant incompetence, lies and xenophobia.

[Space Mackerel]

1 hour ago, deesidejambo said:

Indeed I voted tactically for the Tories to keep the diddies out.   And it worked in my constituency.

 

unlike you I vote on whatever issues are relevant to me at the time of the vote so next time I will be back to Labour or maybe LibDem depending on their position on taxation.

 

you however, and other non-thinking sheep will vote SNP no matter what.

 

“I voted tactically”

 

”Unlike you I voted on whatever issues are relevant to me at the time of the vote”

 

?

[deesidejambo]

1 minute ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

“I voted tactically”

 

”Unlike you I voted on whatever issues are relevant to me at the time of the vote”

 

?

 

Correct.

 

The issue that was relevant to me at the time of the vote was to punt the Nats into the long grass so that we can return to proper governance as opposed to permanent divisive Independence debate.

 

I now see that as secured so now I can concentrate on social equality, hence I will be voting for whatever party is the best option for that.  If it happens to be the SNP at the next Holyrood election then it would be SNP  But the party in the lead in this issue is Labour, with the SNP still trailing along behind and getting dragged into the tax reform issue, years after they were given the power to do something about it themselves.

 

But its probably Thatchers fault.

[Space Mackerel]

18 minutes ago, deesidejambo said:

 

Correct.

 

The issue that was relevant to me at the time of the vote was to punt the Nats into the long grass so that we can return to proper governance as opposed to permanent divisive Independence debate.

 

I now see that as secured so now I can concentrate on social equality, hence I will be voting for whatever party is the best option for that.  If it happens to be the SNP at the next Holyrood election then it would be SNP  But the party in the lead in this issue is Labour, with the SNP still trailing along behind and getting dragged into the tax reform issue, years after they were given the power to do something about it themselves.

 

But its probably Thatchers fault.

 

But you didn’t punt us into the long grass, we absolutely slaughtered you, and, that’s after 10-11 years in Government. 

 

Has it ever crossed your mind that the people in power in Westminster have hundreds if not thousands of more options to tinker around the tax and spend system than the Scottish Government has? You do know that though? 

[SE16 3LN]

27 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

In what sense?

 

Is a cliff edge brexit in the best interests of the British People?  I very much doubt it.  This is going to feck up the UK for a long time to come.

 

 

Firstly lets look at your comment, this is going to feck up the UK for a long time. The UK has been fecked up for more than a decade. Two jobs, 7 days weeks, minimum wage, zero hours contracts, nights shifts etc. etc. are the normal hours for the working class  in this country and we are trillions in debt. If you think we can afford a 100 billion payment on top of that then you're delusional. So that leads us to higher levels of unemployment and poverty and the possible breakdown of social cohesion. 

 

So when faced with that I come to your first point, is a cliff edge brexit in the best interests of the British people, I don't see how it could be much worse. Remember 100 billion is just to take us to the negotiating table. There is to be no discussion of UK money in the European bank, no discussion of UK investment in the bricks and mortar of the EU, and no recognition that the UK workers taxes made a huge contribution in building the EU. It's a one way street and there has to be a point where we say, it's too high a price to pay for what we don't even yet know is on offer.

 

So if the French, Germans, Italians, Spanish, Polish etc. are really prepared to bend the UK workers over and rear end them, then we have to say shove your divorce settlement up your arse, feck off and take your children with you.

 

 

[Boris]

17 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

Firstly lets look at your comment, this is going to feck up the UK for a long time. The UK has been fecked up for more than a decade. Two jobs, 7 days weeks, minimum wage, zero hours contracts, nights shifts etc. etc. are the normal hours for the working class  in this country and we are trillions in debt. If you think we can afford a 100 billion payment on top of that then you're delusional. So that leads us to higher levels of unemployment and poverty and the possible breakdown of social cohesion. 

 

So when faced with that I come to your first point, is a cliff edge brexit in the best interests of the British people, I don't see how it could be much worse. Remember 100 billion is just to take us to the negotiating table. There is to be no discussion of UK money in the European bank, no discussion of UK investment in the bricks and mortar of the EU, and no recognition that the UK workers taxes made a huge contribution in building the EU. It's a one way street and there has to be a point where we say, it's too high a price to pay for what we don't even yet know is on offer.

 

So if the French, Germans, Italians, Spanish, Polish etc. are really prepared to bend the UK workers over and rear end them, then we have to say shove your divorce settlement up your arse, feck off and take your children with you.

 

 

 

So letting the likes of Fox, Davis, Gove etc set the future is in their best interests?

 

If we walk away from our responsibilities, don't you think that may put us at a disadvantage when it comes to negotiating trade deals?  It's a bit like wanting Dave King to buy your football club!

 

As I've said, there may be very good reasons for leaving the EU, it's just that the ones that are being used at the moment are the wrong ones, imo.  You talk of the working class, yet this bunch of charlatans in Downing Street have no care for them whatsoever.  

[Space Mackerel]

I love a good old Brexiteer rant. 

 

They want a free free trade deal with the EU when they already have one and a soft border with the RoI too ?

 

 

[SE16 3LN]

34 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

So letting the likes of Fox, Davis, Gove etc set the future is in their best interests?

 

If we walk away from our responsibilities, don't you think that may put us at a disadvantage when it comes to negotiating trade deals?  It's a bit like wanting Dave King to buy your football club!

 

As I've said, there may be very good reasons for leaving the EU, it's just that the ones that are being used at the moment are the wrong ones, imo.  You talk of the working class, yet this bunch of charlatans in Downing Street have no care for them whatsoever.  

The 100 billion is not our responsibility, that is the price the EU leaders are putting on the UK visiting the negotiating table. It's despicable greed and you're attempt at whatabootery is not going to mask that. It's time to call the EU regime for what it is, we can sort Downing Street out later. 

[Boris]

4 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

The 100 billion is not our responsibility, that is the price the EU leaders are putting on the UK visiting the negotiating table. It's despicable greed and you're attempt at whatabootery is not going to mask that. It's time to call the EU regime for what it is, we can sort Downing Street out later. 

 

100 billion?

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42161346

 

This report says 50 bn Euros.

 

But if we as a nation have made committments, then we are duty bound to honour them.  

 

As I've said before, there are valid reasons for leaving the EU.  Our government aren't using those though.  If you think this is going to benefit the working class as you put it, then I think you are wrong.  You think you can sort Westminster?  Good luck with that!

[jambo lodge]

52 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

I love a good old Brexiteer rant. 

 

They want a free free trade deal with the EU when they already have one and a soft border with the RoI too ?

 

 

 

You really are so predictable. Its in the EU's interest to get a free trade deal with the UK as much as it is for us..........in fact a certain party used that argument in a recent national referendum.   

[deesidejambo]

1 hour ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

But you didn’t punt us into the long grass, we absolutely slaughtered you, and, that’s after 10-11 years in Government. 

 

Has it ever crossed your mind that the people in power in Westminster have hundreds if not thousands of more options to tinker around the tax and spend system than the Scottish Government has? You do know that though? 

 

I meant Independence was punted, which it has been.      Seen the polls recently? Note good for Indy even with all the Brexit chaos.

 

And blaming the SNPs tax inaction on Westminster is a good one.  You should be on stage. 

[Space Mackerel]

2 hours ago, deesidejambo said:

 

I meant Independence was punted, which it has been.      Seen the polls recently? Note good for Indy even with all the Brexit chaos.

 

And blaming the SNPs tax inaction on Westminster is a good one.  You should be on stage. 

 

There was a poll carried out in September, Indy is standing at 1 point up from 2014. 

 

Take your head out the sand please. 

[Space Mackerel]

2 hours ago, jambo lodge said:

 

You really are so predictable. Its in the EU's interest to get a free trade deal with the UK as much as it is for us..........in fact a certain party used that argument in a recent national referendum.   

 

I think the FLA need to march for a free trade deal, that'll show them pesky EU eurocrats. 

[deesidejambo]

42 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

There was a poll carried out in September, Indy is standing at 1 point up from 2014. 

 

Take your head out the sand please. 

 

Well as you instructed I took my head out the sand and found this.

 

After all the current Tory shambles, Indy still gets nowhere.   You can keep banging on about the evil Tories, but once Labour win the next election, you wont be able to play that card anymore.    Aw.

 

But keep CyberNatting.