More Tory lies

[Psychedelicropcircle]

12 minutes ago, jambo lodge said:

 

Very proud of our positive HR policies.

 

Very much so am I but you’ll find the Tory living wage you promote is high jacked from the original living wage. Which just so happens to pay more?

 

Some Tory filth are starting a podcast called “for the many”

 

 

wonder where they got that slogan?

 

Edited November 22, 2017 by Psychedelicropcircle

[Victorian]

Only a Tory could possible cite the living wage as an example of how the Tories give a flying **** about the poorest in society and how they don't routinely preserve and extend wealth inequality.

 

Tax break for the worst off compared to the better off?     No.

 

Stamp duty break for the worst off compared to the better off?    No.

 

Helping first time buyers on to the ladder?     My arse.

 

Protecting property values for the already wealthy?    Yes.

 

A net budget giveaway of billions to remain in power?    Yes.

 

Utter filth.

[jambo lodge]

4 minutes ago, Victorian said:

Only a Tory could possible cite the living wage as an example of how the Tories give a flying **** about the poorest in society and how they don't routinely preserve and extend wealth inequality.

 

Tax break for the worst off compared to the better off?     No.

 

Stamp duty break for the worst off compared to the better off?    No.

 

Helping first time buyers on to the ladder?     My arse.

 

Protecting property values for the already wealthy?    Yes.

 

A net budget giveaway of billions to remain in power?    Yes.

 

Utter filth.

 

Let's see what our " progressive " government in Scotland does with the extra cash allocated to them. Most of the issues you raise are devolved. The increases last year in land and building tax do not seem to have had the desired effect in Scotland....putting up taxes is not always the answer.

[JamboX2]

59 minutes ago, Psychedelicropcircle said:

 

X2 it’s most likely putting out fires & catching criminals are most likely the same both sides of the border so how you organise it should have nothing to do with vat or is it but but but they Kent the rools 

 

Rools? It's the law. Kent runs fire services locally. As a local service it's VAT exempted. If it was English Fire Service it wouldn't be VAT exempted. VAT and who or what is exempt from it is the very basic issue of VAT. Baby's clothes. VAT exempt. Adults. Not. Local services.  VAT exempt. National bodies. Not. 

 

It's not hard to understand. It was an issue at merger which was ignored.

 

The Scottish Government should've considered it before merger. The UK government should have reacted sooner. Both have failed miserably over this till now. End of the day it's good it's been resolved.

[ri Alban]

The Jimmy Saville party move the deficit wipeout  from 2016 to 2030. 

[Space Mackerel]

1 hour ago, ri Alban said:

The Jimmy Saville party move the deficit wipeout  from 2016 to 2030. 

 

MSM Sky News and Faisal Islam saying the UK is ****ed till mid 30’s now.

 

Ive heard of you wrap yourself in a Yoonyin Jack you’re  immune to economic and financial shocks though. Fred Goodwin sold them on eBay last week at half price. 

 

 

[H2]

On 11/03/2017 at 08:50, aussieh said:

What happened to your manifesto pledge of no more Tax hikes. NI hike for the self employed to align with PAYE employees without the same benefits. Are they gonnae give me holiday pay etc...???

 

LIARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You can apply the same logic to every ruling party, including SNP, none ever fulfil all of their pledges.

[JamboX2]

1 hour ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

MSM Sky News and Faisal Islam saying the UK is ****ed till mid 30’s now.

 

Ive heard of you wrap yourself in a Yoonyin Jack you’re  immune to economic and financial shocks though. Fred Goodwin sold them on eBay last week at half price. 

 

 

 

 

Does your saltire do the same for economic and financial shocks of independence?

 

The extremes of nationalism in Britain are now starting to bite home and should be a big wake up call to us all.

[ri Alban]

5 hours ago, JamboX2 said:

 

 

Does your saltire do the same for economic and financial shocks of independence?

 

The extremes of nationalism in Britain are now starting to bite home and should be a big wake up call to us all.

Nationalism is the only way out for Scots, you can keep your right wing Nazi britnat loyalism if you want. 

And our head of state will be elected and open to everyone, not some inbred cousin pumpers.

[Jam Tarts 1874]

15 hours ago, jambo lodge said:

These horrible Tories just allocated an extra £2b to Scotland in today's budget.....shocking!! 

As predicted, once the details are clear this becomes another lie.

 

This money is over a number of years, less than half of it is available for public services and most of it is capital to be used for private development projects only.  

 

 

[JamboX2]

1 hour ago, Hunky Dory said:

 

There is no extreme aspect to civic nationalism.

 

Except the threat of economic shock to the economy. 

[JamboX2]

2 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Nationalism is the only way out for Scots, you can keep your right wing Nazi britnat loyalism if you want. 

And our head of state will be elected and open to everyone, not some inbred cousin pumpers.

 

Not according to the party that will negotiate independence. Monarchical union to remain... much like Canada, New Zealand and Australia.

 

You do also realise that your argument is the exact same as those Brexiteers who scorned the EU Commission? 

[deesidejambo]

2 hours ago, Hunky Dory said:

 

There is no extreme aspect to civic nationalism.

Nobody told the IRA that then.

[Ron Burgundy]

10 hours ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

MSM Sky News and Faisal Islam saying the UK is ****ed till mid 30’s now.

 

Ive heard of you wrap yourself in a Yoonyin Jack you’re  immune to economic and financial shocks though. Fred Goodwin sold them on eBay last week at half price. 

 

 

Fame at last today in the Metro.

 

[jack D and coke]

17 hours ago, jambo lodge said:

Good that the Scottish Tory MPs managed to sort out the VAT mess Holyrood got itself into with the centralisation of police and fire services.

The ignorance  

Initially a Tory policy and and great to see that not voting for a British party sees our emergency services punished. 

Wonder if that that cost any lives? 

 

 

[Thunderstruck]

On 22/11/2017 at 02:41, Hunky Dory said:

 

To be honest, the news that their policies are responsible for 120k deaths was probably the worst of three stories.  The BBC were told not to report it.

 

I’m sure you will have been equally scathing in respect of the significant rise in the number of deaths in Scotland arising from increased waiting times for treatment and from poor social care service provision leading to more deaths while patients were waiting to be discharged. 

 

I’m sure I don’t need to remind you that Health Services in Scotland are the responsibility of the Scottish Government and its Teflon-coated Health Minister. 

 

 

 

 

[AlphonseCapone]

2 hours ago, JamboX2 said:

 

Except the threat of economic shock to the economy. 

 

[AlphonseCapone]

Are we finally going to drop the Tories are good with the economy shit now?

 

They've been making an absolute pigs ear of the economy while breaking promise after promise. But still the hard right Unionist Scots defend them.

[doctor jambo]

14 hours ago, Victorian said:

Only a Tory could possible cite the living wage as an example of how the Tories give a flying **** about the poorest in society and how they don't routinely preserve and extend wealth inequality.

 

Tax break for the worst off compared to the better off?     No.

 

Stamp duty break for the worst off compared to the better off?    No.

 

Helping first time buyers on to the ladder?     My arse.

 

Protecting property values for the already wealthy?    Yes.

 

A net budget giveaway of billions to remain in power?    Yes.

 

Utter filth.

I'm not a Tory voter, but the above is a whole load of ridiculous flatulence

[doctor jambo]

25 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

Are we finally going to drop the Tories are good with the economy shit now?

 

They've been making an absolute pigs ear of the economy while breaking promise after promise. But still the hard right Unionist Scots defend them.

The price for keeping people in jobs

Whilst increasing real time income for pensioners

Has been slower growth and pay stagnation

 

You can have EITHER mass unemployment ( the Spain model)

or erosion of living standards  (the UK model)

 

They made their choice, and the UK has seen continued falls in jobless ( and really low levels of youth unemployment)

THe cost of that is being borne by those paying tax

 

[Space Mackerel]

18 hours ago, jambo lodge said:

Good that the Scottish Tory MPs managed to sort out the VAT mess Holyrood got itself into with the centralisation of police and fire services.

Lolololol

 

 

[deesidejambo]

1 hour ago, AlphonseCapone said:

Are we finally going to drop the Tories are good with the economy shit now?

 

They've been making an absolute pigs ear of the economy while breaking promise after promise. But still the hard right Unionist Scots defend them.

Whats your views on the personal taxation?

 

If I understand correctly, the Scottish Tax reforms will come in the next Holyrood budget.

 

My view is that (if within scope of the Scottish powers) the 40% band should be aligned to rUK but new 45 %and 50% progressive bands should be introduced much earlier, say 45% at 60 and 50% at 70k.

 

Your thoughts (or anyone else care to propose their way forward)?

 

Spacey - your thoughts?

Edited November 23, 2017 by deesidejambo

[Victorian]

1 hour ago, doctor jambo said:

I'm not a Tory voter, but the above is a whole load of ridiculous flatulence

It really isn't.     The changes to personal tax allowances and bands benefit the far wealthier much more than the low paid.    The stamp duty swindle is an obscene giveaway to the wealthy and will do nothing to help those who the Tories claim to be helping.    It's a windfall for those who don't need it and an artificial shoring up of property values.     Redistribution of wealth in reverse gear.

 

It isn't even hidden in the details.   Ir's in open plain sight.    If people can't see it then that explains why the Tories get in power in the first place.

[Pans Jambo]

16 hours ago, jambo lodge said:

 

Let's see what our " progressive " government in Scotland does with the extra cash allocated to them. Most of the issues you raise are devolved. The increases last year in land and building tax do not seem to have had the desired effect in Scotland....putting up taxes is not always the answer.

What 'extra cash'?

 

The £2Billion mentioned yesterday?

 

More than half of that is a loan that will need to paid back. The rest is STILL short of where the bloc grant should be real terms. so its still a reduction. Although, I am sure our canny government will be able to utilise it to our best advantage. Scotland has a very good record of stretching the money it gets back from Wastemonster.

 

'Its easier to fool the people that believe them that they have been fooled'.

[Thunderstruck]

44 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

What 'extra cash'?

 

The £2Billion mentioned yesterday?

 

More than half of that is a loan that will need to paid back. The rest is STILL short of where the bloc grant should be real terms. so its still a reduction. Although, I am sure our canny government will be able to utilise it to our best advantage. Scotland has a very good record of stretching the money it gets back from Wastemonster.

 

'Its easier to fool the people that believe them that they have been fooled'.

 

The parlous state of health, education, emergency services, and local government - all reached under this Scottish Government. That’s an interpretation of “canny” that is new to me. Perhaps you meant “cannae”.   

[ri Alban]

6 hours ago, JamboX2 said:

 

Not according to the party that will negotiate independence. Monarchical union to remain... much like Canada, New Zealand and Australia.

 

You do also realise that your argument is the exact same as those Brexiteers who scorned the EU Commission? 

Tell me X2, who has more control, WM over Scotland or Brussels over WM. 

I don't care if Scotland is part of The EU or not, as long as it's independent and can chose it's own destiny. 

The SNP are only a gateway to an independent Scotland, it's a Yes vote for independence, not an SNP dictatorship. Look at the state of the UK government and folk think that's the people to trust, ffs they're all creepy crooked frauds. In fact utter scum is more accurate. As for your BBC whiter than white compared to RT, ffs. The place makes me sick to the pit of my stomach what they've allowed to happen and then cover up. 

 

Edited November 23, 2017 by ri Alban

[ri Alban]

2 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

The parlous state of health, education, emergency services, and local government - all reached under this Scottish Government. That’s an interpretation of “canny” that is new to me. Perhaps you meant “cannae”.   

The £2b isn't extra money it's a £2b less in cuts, only because England are getting more. 

[Pans Jambo]

2 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

The parlous state of health, education, emergency services, and local government - all reached under this Scottish Government. That’s an interpretation of “canny” that is new to me. Perhaps you meant “cannae”.   

Parlous?

Look south of the border to see Parlous public services.

Bridge tolls

Prescriptions

Child care fees

University fees

Bedroom tax

OAP Bus passes

ETC

 

Funny how a wee country like Scotland can mitigate these things and more but your holy grail that is TORY ENGERLAND and all her wealth...cant.

[ri Alban]

1 minute ago, Pans Jambo said:

Parlous?

Look south of the border to see Parlous public services.

Bridge tolls

Prescriptions

Child care fees

University fees

Bedroom tax

OAP Bus passes

ETC

 

Funny how a wee country like Scotland can mitigate these things and more but your holy grail that is TORY ENGLELAND and all her wealth...cant.

 

[Thunderstruck]

Just now, Pans Jambo said:

Parlous?

Look south of the border to see Parlous public services.

Bridge tolls

Prescriptions

Child care fees

University fees

Bedroom tax

OAP Bus passes

ETC

 

Funny how a wee country like Scotland can mitigate these things and more but your holy grail that is TORY ENGERLAND and all her wealth...cant.

 

That is simple whataboutery - you were praising the Scottish Government.

 

They have the ability to mitigate the worst that the Tories pass on but do very little.

 

Why?

 

It is to foster the cult of grievance and who loses out - the less well-off. But what do they matter so long as the Indy pie-in-the- sky staggers on. 

 

 

[deesidejambo]

5 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Parlous?

Look south of the border to see Parlous public services.

Bridge tolls

Prescriptions

Child care fees

University fees

Bedroom tax

OAP Bus passes

ETC

 

Funny how a wee country like Scotland can mitigate these things and more but your holy grail that is TORY ENGERLAND and all her wealth...cant.

The free University fees mean Scottish Unis take on  bigger share of overseas students to pay for it, resulting in a quota system that denies scottish students places on popular courses.  That needs review.

[ri Alban]

5 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

That is simple whataboutery - you were praising the Scottish Government.

 

They have the ability to mitigate the worst that the Tories pass on but do very little.

 

Why?

 

It is to foster the cult of grievance and who loses out - the less well-off. But what do they matter so long as the Indy pie-in-the- sky staggers on. 

 

 

Why should they? They should pass on every last bit of English rule with bells on, they should actually renege from Holyrood and let the Red, Blue and Yellow britnats finish us off. And only stand for WM and UDI. 

It would save having an another referendum.

Edited November 23, 2017 by ri Alban

[Pans Jambo]

2 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

That is simple whataboutery - you were praising the Scottish Government.

 

They have the ability to mitigate the worst that the Tories pass on but do very little.

 

Why?

 

It is to foster the cult of grievance and who loses out - the less well-off. But what do they matter so long as the Indy pie-in-the- sky staggers on. 

 

 

Well  you started the 'whatabootery' claim that the Scottish Government have 'parlous' public services when in fact, in every single way they are in better health than our overlords south of the border. Nothing 'Grievance' about it. Just because it's in shite state down there, theres no need to have it the same up here.

 

Not sure how the less well off you mention suffer from free bus passes, free prescriptions, free childcare, scrapped bridge tolls, cancelled bedroom tax etc. but you keep on with your 'trickle down economics', 'austerity', tax avoidance' and other Tory endorsed programmes that seem to make the English 'Less well off' way better off than the Scots 'less well off'.

 

Hows that for whatabootery?

[ri Alban]

6 minutes ago, deesidejambo said:

The free University fees mean Scottish Unis take on  bigger share of overseas students to pay for it, resulting in a quota system that denies scottish students places on popular courses.  That needs review.

Brexit will rebalance that, as it stands they don't pay. Charge the RUKers double ( for everything), it might keep them out. 

[ri Alban]

10 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

That is simple whataboutery - you were praising the Scottish Government.

 

They have the ability to mitigate the worst that the Tories pass on but do very little.

 

Why?

 

It is to foster the cult of grievance and who loses out - the less well-off. But what do they matter so long as the Indy pie-in-the- sky staggers on. 

 

 

You'll need to explain this Indy pie in the sky, please.

[AlphonseCapone]

2 hours ago, deesidejambo said:

Whats your views on the personal taxation?

 

If I understand correctly, the Scottish Tax reforms will come in the next Holyrood budget.

 

My view is that (if within scope of the Scottish powers) the 40% band should be aligned to rUK but new 45 %and 50% progressive bands should be introduced much earlier, say 45% at 60 and 50% at 70k.

 

Your thoughts (or anyone else care to propose their way forward)?

 

Spacey - your thoughts?

 

45% at 60 means walking away with 33k.

50% at 70k means walking away with 35k.

I don't think someone earning 70k deserves to lose that much in reference to someone earning 60k, both are relatively wealthy but the gap between them isn't excessive compared to the gap between the both and the average citizen to warrant that tax jump between them imo.

 

I'd personally devise a tax system based on the standard deviation from the median salary of the country. Something along the lines of those on less than the median down to a cut off pay 20%, those  above the median but less than 1 SD above the median pay 25%, those between 1 and 2 pay 35%, those between 2 and 3 pay 45% and those over 3 pay 55%. That's off my head so the exact numbers would need to be calculated but I think more emphasis on your salary in reference to what it means compared to others and purchasing power rather than simply this number I've plucked out of thin air such as 50k for above or below.

 

Hope that makes some sense!

[deesidejambo]

3 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

45% at 60 means walking away with 33k.

50% at 70k means walking away with 35k.

I don't think someone earning 70k deserves to lose that much in reference to someone earning 60k, both are relatively wealthy but the gap between them isn't excessive compared to the gap between the both and the average citizen to warrant that tax jump between them imo.

 

I'd personally devise a tax system based on the standard deviation from the median salary of the country. Something along the lines of those on less than the median down to a cut off pay 20%, those  above the median but less than 1 SD above the median pay 25%, those between 1 and 2 pay 35%, those between 2 and 3 pay 45% and those over 3 pay 55%. That's off my head so the exact numbers would need to be calculated but I think more emphasis on your salary in reference to what it means compared to others and purchasing power rather than simply this number I've plucked out of thin air such as 50k for above or below.

 

Hope that makes some sense!

Could be but possibly difficult to calculate and potentially tricky to understand.  Not many people are versed in statistical stuff like standard deviation etc.

 

With progressive banding of course the bands needs to be set at a level that gets the required income but in principle I think we both agree that significant progressivity needs to be introduced.   Yes it will hurt th higher-earners but imo the gap is now so large that its visibly unsustainable.

 

Up here in sheepland the salaries remain ridiculous, for example the head of the OGA earning £335 per annum and medium-level Leaders in oil Companies getting base salaries about £150k and share options etc resulting in annual income easily around £250k.        They are getting so rich, even at the 50% tax level they dont know what to do with all the money so are offshoring it and buying houses in Australia, France, and Portugal.     This money is all shipping out the UK.        Maybe I'm just jealous that everyone drives a Range Rover and I have a Polo.

[jambo lodge]

3 hours ago, Space Mackerel said:

Lolololol

 

 

 

Usual nonsense from SM. Wasn't aware that John Lamont was part of the SNP government that ignored the Treasury guidance regarding VAT.

[Pans Jambo]

3 minutes ago, jambo lodge said:

 

Usual nonsense from SM. Wasn't aware that John Lamont was part of the SNP government that ignored the Treasury guidance regarding VAT.

They changed it in the budget no problem. Like it was a simple thing to do. Why didnt they just do it back then?

Now there’s real grievance politics in action!

Edited November 23, 2017 by Pans Jambo

[jambo lodge]

1 minute ago, Pans Jambo said:

They changed it in the budget no problem. Like it was a simple thing to do. Why didnt they just do it back then?

Now there’s real grievance politics in action!

 

Only the SNP can turn £2b of extra funding into grievance. As regards the VAT the Tory MP's made a case to government that police and fire services in Scotland are in such a shambles through mismanagement that they need all the help Westminster can give them. The firefighters protesting outside Holyrood today were certainly not there to cheer the SNP.  

[Thunderstruck]

53 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Well  you started the 'whatabootery' claim that the Scottish Government have 'parlous' public services when in fact, in every single way they are in better health than our overlords south of the border. Nothing 'Grievance' about it. Just because it's in shite state down there, theres no need to have it the same up here.

 

Not sure how the less well off you mention suffer from free bus passes, free prescriptions, free childcare, scrapped bridge tolls, cancelled bedroom tax etc. but you keep on with your 'trickle down economics', 'austerity', tax avoidance' and other Tory endorsed programmes that seem to make the English 'Less well off' way better off than the Scots 'less well off'.

 

Hows that for whatabootery?

 

You simply go on to compound your earlier   Whataboutery.

 

I have little time for the Tories or the SNP but we are stuck with them both. I live in Scotland and I am more concerned to hear what the Scottish Government is going to do about the big ticket issues I mentioned earlier (I’m sure you noticed the even earlier mention of serious failings in Health and Social Care leading to unnecessary deaths). 

 

I dont want want to hear that poor service up here is fine because England is worse. We have devolution and I want to know what will be done to improve Health, Education, Security and local services that impact on me or my family on a daily basis. The answer seems to be very little. 

 

Further, these “free” services are nothing of the sort - they are paid for elsewhere by robbing Peter to pay Paul.

 

Example - Small Business Rates Relief given not to small business but to small properties irrespective of the profitability or otherwise of the business in that property. It is paid for in the main by occupiers of larger properties again irrespective of profitability. Bugger properties are usually where most people are employed. 

 

Furthermore, these freebies usually lead to poorer service to those who really need the service. Deeside has reminded you of the impact of free tuition and it is good to see that you have now dropped that from your list of freebies. 

 

Tax avoidance is all around us and is perfectly legal. I’m sure our resident White Van Man reduces his tax burden by reclaiming VAT on his van, its fuel and a raft of other purchases. That is legal tax avoidance. 

 

[Pans Jambo]

7 hours ago, Jam Tarts 1874 said:

As predicted, once the details are clear this becomes another lie.

 

This money is over a number of years, less than half of it is available for public services and most of it is capital to be used for private development projects only - WHICH HAS TO BE REPAID WITH INTEREST.  

 

 

FTFY

[Pans Jambo]

4 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

You simply go on to compound your earlier   Whataboutery.

 

I have little time for the Tories or the SNP but we are stuck with them both. I live in Scotland and I am more concerned to hear what the Scottish Government is going to do about the big ticket issues I mentioned earlier (I’m sure you noticed the even earlier mention of serious failings in Health and Social Care leading to unnecessary deaths). 

 

I dont want want to hear that poor service up here is fine because England is worse. We have devolution and I want to know what will be done to improve Health, Education, Security and local services that impact on me or my family on a daily basis. The answer seems to be very little. 

 

Further, these “free” services are nothing of the sort - they are paid for elsewhere by robbing Peter to pay Paul.

 

Example - Small Business Rates Relief given not to small business but to small properties irrespective of the profitability or otherwise of the business in that property. It is paid for in the main by occupiers of larger properties again irrespective of profitability. Bugger properties are usually where most people are employed. 

 

Furthermore, these freebies usually lead to poorer service to those who really need the service. Deeside has reminded you of the impact of free tuition and it is good to see that you have now dropped that from your list of freebies. 

 

Tax avoidance is all around us and is perfectly legal. I’m sure our resident White Van Man reduces his tax burden by reclaiming VAT on his van, its fuel and a raft of other purchases. That is legal tax avoidance. 

 

Well you see we are about running on empty in the coffers department so we cant really improve on much without huge tax hikes. I cant think of anything that would improve our lot up here...unless folk wake up and smell the coffee and realise that our path is not aligned to westminster and never will be.

 

And furthermore. I have never bought the crap that giving public funded services means the poor suffer. Try telling that to the young person who got into Uni when he/she would not otherwise have been able to do so.

 

Maybe we should stop the cold weather payment to all the OAP's because a very small proportion of them are actually wealthy?

Edited November 23, 2017 by Pans Jambo

[Cade]

IFS says yesterday's budget could point to 20 years of stagnant wages.

 

 

[Sraman]

1 hour ago, deesidejambo said:

Not many people are versed in statistical stuff like standard deviation etc.

 

"O" Grade Mathematics. Plenty people versed in it. 

[Cade]

IFS also saying that the UK debt won't get under 2008 levels until 2060.

 

50 years of pain, brought to you by the Conservative and Unionist idealogues.

[Sraman]

19 minutes ago, Cade said:

IFS also saying that the UK debt won't get under 2008 levels until 2060.

 

50 years of pain, brought to you by the Conservative and Unionist idealogues.

 

 

But, but.....we're devolved, it's the SNP's fault.

[deesidejambo]

24 minutes ago, Sraman said:

 

"O" Grade Mathematics. Plenty people versed in it. 

OK so explain how to calculate what one or two standard deviations from a mean salary each year would be?

 

Be specific.

[John Findlay]

46 minutes ago, Cade said:

IFS also saying that the UK debt won't get under 2008 levels until 2060.

 

50 years of pain, brought to you by the Conservative and Unionist idealogues.

Labour of anyone else will fix it how?

[AlphonseCapone]

2 hours ago, deesidejambo said:

Could be but possibly difficult to calculate and potentially tricky to understand.  Not many people are versed in statistical stuff like standard deviation etc.

 

With progressive banding of course the bands needs to be set at a level that gets the required income but in principle I think we both agree that significant progressivity needs to be introduced.   Yes it will hurt th higher-earners but imo the gap is now so large that its visibly unsustainable.

 

Up here in sheepland the salaries remain ridiculous, for example the head of the OGA earning £335 per annum and medium-level Leaders in oil Companies getting base salaries about £150k and share options etc resulting in annual income easily around £250k.        They are getting so rich, even at the 50% tax level they dont know what to do with all the money so are offshoring it and buying houses in Australia, France, and Portugal.     This money is all shipping out the UK.        Maybe I'm just jealous that everyone drives a Range Rover and I have a Polo.

 

Yeah granted.

 

I do think we both agree on the idea of a progressive tax system. I'd be surprised if anyone bar the very rich disagree that the tax system is now outdated and not fit for purpose, well, I think they know this but would be happy with the current set of affairs given they benefit the most. I'm open to suggestions going forward on tax but I do think we need to abandon our old system ideas. I wouldn't, for example, call anyone earning more than 40k but less than 50k as rich, I'd say they are doing well and I don't think they should be hammered, but I think they, like myself, can afford to pay a little more.

 

I think many people are hypocrites with taxation, on both sides of the political spectrum. You've those on the right who want to complain about the state of public services etc as a way to criticise the Scottish Government but refuse point blank to consider paying more tax, and then you have those on the left who espouse the importance of a healthy public sector but don't seem willing to actually take the steps to increase the taxation to achieve that.

 

Too many folk want their tax cake and to eat it.

 

We are in this middle ground limbo where everything suffers, we don't collect enough tax to have the services we want but people don't want to change the system through fear of paying more. The result, everything suffers. I want better public services, and I am willing to pay more tax to that end. But what I pay should be proportionate and only works if everyone signs up to the system. If the rich guy has the attitude that he shouldn't pay more tax as he doesn't need the public services, well then, the whole thing falls down. Not a single person, regardless of how rich they are, got to where they are without the state in some way or another.