More Tory lies

[jack D and coke]

16 minutes ago, Deke Thornton said:

The fact that the country was bankrupt after the failure of the Darien scheme weakened our negotiating hand too.

It depends what you read about the actual state of the finances back then, who really knows. But aye we were forced to the table. There was acts to repeal it after a few years too when it seemed we were being consumed and ignored. Fascinating stuff. 
I love reading about it and back to Wallace, Bruce and James Douglas too who never seems to ever get mentioned. Must’ve been absolute lunatics these guys. 
 

Edited August 6, 2021 by jack D and coke

[Unknown user]

3 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

Britain decided what Britain did. Just as Greater Glasgow will largely do for Scotland in an independent Scotland. 

Before the union Scotland was keen on establishing its own empire. But we weren't very good at it. Or more kindly lacked the resources.

 

That's not really the point, Scotland and Scots don't need to take responsibility for anything. We were the first step toward England's empire, and dominated by them, as now.

[jack D and coke]

19 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

That's not really the point, Scotland and Scots don't need to take responsibility for anything. We were the first step toward England's empire, and dominated by them, as now.

Aye. Things like invernesians being the best English speakers is no accident. After the clearances they sent their best English up to un Scottish the highlands and make them speak proper. 
Being British is all about being more English than Scots or welsh for example. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

5 hours ago, Nucky Thompson said:

The unions were grinding the country to a halt, calling strikes for the smallest thing.

 

I'm old enough to remember the Winter of discontent.

 

 

Me too. The unions had far too much power and needed brought into line. The irony is that Harold Wilson actually closed more pits than Maggie Thatcher.

The biggest villain was actually Arthur Scargill; he called an illegal strike as he refused to hold an official ballot. Some pits that were not economically viable had to close but he refused to enter into negotiations with the Govt.

Of course, it was devastating for miners, their families and the communities. Unfortunately,  it coincided with a period of de-industrialisation that was always going to happen but the biggest failing of the Thatcher govt was not replacing the jobs that were lost. 

There were certainly no winners from that period in time.

 

 

[Montgomery Brewster]

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

 

[Montgomery Brewster]

[The Real Maroonblood]

6 minutes ago, Montgomery Brewster said:

[Montgomery Brewster]

16 hours ago, bairdy said:

As an ex miner I think what he  said was absolutely disgraceful,

Everyone knows Thatcher closed the mines to weaken the NUM, and take on the unions, not just the miners union.

And the worst part of it is, he knows that full well.

I bloody hate tories!

 

 

Is the correct answer 

[Savage Vince]

1 hour ago, Montgomery Brewster said:

 

❤️

[Savage Vince]

10 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

The biggest villain was actually Arthur Scargill

 

 

😁

 

Thatcher was a disgusting parasite of a human being. Despised everywhere. 

 

A *****. 😊

[Governor Tarkin]

 

 

[SectionDJambo]

11 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Me too. The unions had far too much power and needed brought into line. The irony is that Harold Wilson actually closed more pits than Maggie Thatcher.

The biggest villain was actually Arthur Scargill; he called an illegal strike as he refused to hold an official ballot. Some pits that were not economically viable had to close but he refused to enter into negotiations with the Govt.

Of course, it was devastating for miners, their families and the communities. Unfortunately,  it coincided with a period of de-industrialisation that was always going to happen but the biggest failing of the Thatcher govt was not replacing the jobs that were lost. 

There were certainly no winners from that period in time.

 

 

If I remember correctly, Scargill had taken on Thatcher not long after she was elected. He won that battle as Thatcher gave in, probably due to not having her plans in place yet for taking him on. However, when he tried it again just a couple of years later, she was up for a fight.

Scargill made it easy for Thatcher to win most of the public support, outside of the mining community, due to his open agenda of bringing down an elected government that had only recently been put in place due to the Winter of Discontent. A lot of very bad things happened on both sides of that industrial conflict, and it's no surprise that a buffoon like Johnson is oblivious to many communities still having to recover fully. Thatcher never replaced the mining jobs. Many communities were just cut loose. 

The mention of Harold Wilson reminds me what a shrewd politician he could be. He was usually able to keep the unions onside and realistic, but his greatest decision, for me, was refusing to have the British Armed Forces go to Vietnam at the request of the Americans.

[manaliveits105]

11 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

The irony is that Harold Wilson actually closed more pits than Maggie Thatcher.

Dont confuse our resident comrades with facts 

[Governor Tarkin]

3 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

but his greatest decision, for me, was refusing to have the British Armed Forces go to Vietnam at the request of the Americans.

 

Without a doubt.

[Enzo Chiefo]

46 minutes ago, Savage Vince said:

 

😁

 

Thatcher was a disgusting parasite of a human being. Despised everywhere. 

 

A *****. 😊

She really wasn't.  It's just that you didn't agree with her politics.

She was exactly what the country - at the time, an economic and political basket case thanks to Labour govts - needed.

 

[Enzo Chiefo]

6 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Dont confuse our resident comrades with facts 

Yip. Much easier for them to rewrite history.👍

[Enzo Chiefo]

8 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

If I remember correctly, Scargill had taken on Thatcher not long after she was elected. He won that battle as Thatcher gave in, probably due to not having her plans in place yet for taking him on. However, when he tried it again just a couple of years later, she was up for a fight.

Scargill made it easy for Thatcher to win most of the public support, outside of the mining community, due to his open agenda of bringing down an elected government that had only recently been put in place due to the Winter of Discontent. A lot of very bad things happened on both sides of that industrial conflict, and it's no surprise that a buffoon like Johnson is oblivious to many communities still having to recover fully. Thatcher never replaced the mining jobs. Many communities were just cut loose. 

The mention of Harold Wilson reminds me what a shrewd politician he could be. He was usually able to keep the unions onside and realistic, but his greatest decision, for me, was refusing to have the British Armed Forces go to Vietnam at the request of the Americans.

Yes, I think you're right. And they brought down the previous Tory govt under Heath iirc.

Didn't know about Wilson's decision on Vietnam but yes, absolutely a good decision. 

[Savage Vince]

6 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

She really wasn't.  It's just that you didn't agree with her politics.

She was exactly what the country - at the time, an economic and political basket case thanks to Labour govts - needed.

 

 

Are there any statues of her yet? 

[pablo]

And all made possible by the SNP bringing down the Callaghan's Labour government. 

[Cade]

In 1979 the UK was in serious need of economic reform.

Thatcher came to power on a promise of economic reform.

However, her methods of reform were disgusting and the entire nation was reformed to operate as a cash generator for the benefit of the south-east of England with everybody else cut adrift with nothing.

Selling off the family silver for a quick buck began with that evil witch and it's never stopped since.

 

She was deeply unpopular across the abandoned parts of the country and was facing losing the next election but luckily for her the Falklands happened at a very convenient time so, like every other right-wing government, a nice little war boosted her popularity going into the '83 election.

 

 

 

[Savage Vince]

4 minutes ago, Cade said:

In 1979 the UK was in serious need of economic reform.

Thatcher came to power on a promise of economic reform.

However, her methods of reform were disgusting and the entire nation was reformed to operate as a cash generator for the benefit of the south-east of England with everybody else cut adrift with nothing.

Selling off the family silver for a quick buck began with that evil witch and it's never stopped since.

 

She was deeply unpopular across the abandoned parts of the country and was facing losing the next election but luckily for her the Falklands happened at a very convenient time so, like every other right-wing government, a nice little war boosted her popularity going into the '83 election.

 

 

 

 

Beautiful. 

[Savage Vince]

13 minutes ago, pablo said:

And all made possible by the SNP bringing down the Callaghan's Labour government. 

 

The SNP have destroyed Labour full stop. 

[pablo]

Just now, Savage Vince said:

 

The SNP have destroyed Labour full stop. 

 

They've certainly played a significant role in their downfall. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

28 minutes ago, Savage Vince said:

 

Are there any statues of her yet? 

There's a street named after her in Madrid.  And Eastern Europe is eternally grateful to her for the role that she, Reagan and Gorbachev played in endting the tyranny of the Soviet Union.

I think there's a statue of her in Grantham but I'm not sure. 

[micole]

22 minutes ago, pablo said:

And all made possible by the SNP bringing down the Callaghan's Labour government. 

And you do know why the SNP did not vote with Callaghan's Labour, I could go into it but you are better looking it up if you can be arsed.....😁

[pablo]

1 minute ago, micole said:

And you do know why the SNP did not vote with Callaghan's Labour, I could go into it but you are better looking it up if you can be arsed.....😁

 

Well, it's worth remembering that the SNP at the time were pro-privitisation and known as the "tartan tories". This was way before the embarked on cultivating the phoney left wing image they have today.

 

Is that what you mean? 😉

[micole]

1 minute ago, pablo said:

 

Well, it's worth remembering that the SNP at the time were pro-privitisation and known as the "tartan tories". This was way before the embarked on cultivating the phoney left wing image they have today.

 

Is that what you mean? 😉

No, it was all to do with the Home rule vote  but I think you already know this 😉.

[pablo]

1 minute ago, micole said:

No, it was all to do with the Home rule vote  but I think you already know this 😉.

 

Sure.....the nationalists love a bit of rewriting of history, almost as much as a bit of whataboutery. Whatever, it led to 18 years of Tory rule.

[micole]

4 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Sure.....the nationalists love a bit of rewriting of history, almost as much as a bit of whataboutery. Whatever, it led to 18 years of Tory rule.

Ok you have your take on it I have mine, we will just leave it there.

[DETTY29]

Any chance we can get back on track?

 

16-17 year olds will be able to use the drop in clinics from Tuesday where Pfeizer is being held.

 

 

[Nucky Thompson]

10 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

Any chance we can get back on track?

 

16-17 year olds will be able to use the drop in clinics from Tuesday where Pfeizer is being held.

 

 

You're in the wrong thread Detty 

[Dagger Is Back]

12 hours ago, Cade said:

In 1979 the UK was in serious need of economic reform.

Thatcher came to power on a promise of economic reform.

However, her methods of reform were disgusting and the entire nation was reformed to operate as a cash generator for the benefit of the south-east of England with everybody else cut adrift with nothing.

Selling off the family silver for a quick buck began with that evil witch and it's never stopped since.

 

She was deeply unpopular across the abandoned parts of the country and was facing losing the next election but luckily for her the Falklands happened at a very convenient time so, like every other right-wing government, a nice little war boosted her popularity going into the '83 election.

 

 

 

Nailed it. Horrible old cow 

[jack D and coke]

14 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

She really wasn't.  It's just that you didn't agree with her politics.

She was exactly what the country - at the time, an economic and political basket case thanks to Labour govts - needed.

 

I despise the tories but yes she was. Whatever you think of her she was a leader.  It was before you understood things though. 

[Governor Tarkin]

7 minutes ago, BarneyBattles said:

 

The NHS will be next. 

 

Racing certainty.

[Konrad von Carstein]

Sobering stuff...

 

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2021/07/politics-lies-boris-johnson-and-erosion-rule-law

[jack D and coke]

54 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

Sobering stuff...

 

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2021/07/politics-lies-boris-johnson-and-erosion-rule-law

Did you see how he came up here and blanked wee krankie tho hahahahaha pyoor class fae Boris likes 

 

[Konrad von Carstein]

5 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Did you see how he came up here and blanked wee krankie tho hahahahaha pyoor class fae Boris likes 

 

Am hoping that your post is dripping in sarcasm...

 

                      

[jack D and coke]

8 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

Am hoping that your post is dripping in sarcasm...

 

                      

[Enzo Chiefo]

3 hours ago, BarneyBattles said:

I laugh at all the ‘the UK was an economic basket case and she was exactly what we needed, unions were too strong’ bollocks. 
 

The UK is an even bigger economic basket case now after she and her cronies sold off virtually all our assets to their mates (including a huge swathe of state owned housing). 
 

The NHS will be next. 

The NHS can never be fully state run, nor should it be.

Catering, cleaning, parking etc is already privatised. The drugs and medicines are sourced from private companies, there are private companies managing some of the operating theatres and the hospitals themselves are built using private money. 

The majority of dental practices are eithet funded through Denplan or are fully private too. A similar system should be considered for all healthcare needs, with the fallback of a free service for those who need it. 

We are stuck in a dated, ideological treacle when it comes to the NHS. 

As long as healthcare is provided free for those who need it to be free, we should be looking to the successful hybrid social insurance systems in , for example  France, Austria and Germany as our model for the future. Systems that provide far better outcomes than our NHS.

The bureaucracy,  the needless tiers of management and flawed procurement processes result in a system that is not fit for purpose. Most of the ever increasing investment falls into a bottomless pit.

We need to take the politics and the NHYes pish out and have a serious conversation about how it is funded in future.  Outcomes are what matter.

[Governor Tarkin]

1 hour ago, jack D and coke said:

Did you see how he came up here and blanked wee krankie tho hahahahaha pyoor class fae Boris likes 

 

 

Agreed. 

[Beni]

10 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

The NHS can never be fully state run, nor should it be.

Catering, cleaning, parking etc is already privatised. The drugs and medicines are sourced from private companies, there are private companies managing some of the operating theatres and the hospitals themselves are built using private money. 

The majority of dental practices are eithet funded through Denplan or are fully private too. A similar system should be considered for all healthcare needs, with the fallback of a free service for those who need it. 

We are stuck in a dated, ideological treacle when it comes to the NHS. 

As long as healthcare is provided free for those who need it to be free, we should be looking to the successful hybrid social insurance systems in , for example  France, Austria and Germany as our model for the future. Systems that provide far better outcomes than our NHS.

The bureaucracy,  the needless tiers of management and flawed procurement processes result in a system that is not fit for purpose. Most of the ever increasing investment falls into a bottomless pit.

We need to take the politics and the NHYes pish out and have a serious conversation about how it is funded in future.  Outcomes are what matter.

 

At least you acknowledge those countries have far better outcomes than the NHS, perhaps it's just a coincidence but they also spend quite a bit more money on healthcare per person.

Makes you think.

 

 

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/-/ddn-20201202-1

[pablo]

1 hour ago, jack D and coke said:

Did you see how he came up here and blanked wee krankie tho hahahahaha pyoor class fae Boris likes 

 

 

He didn't blank her Jack. They're not counterparts. Anyway..........

[jack D and coke]

1 minute ago, pablo said:

 

He didn't blank her Jack. They're not counterparts. Anyway..........

Eh…was just being a wee bit sarcy bud. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

40 minutes ago, Beni said:

 

At least you acknowledge those countries have far better outcomes than the NHS, perhaps it's just a coincidence but they also spend quite a bit more money on healthcare per person.

Makes you think.

 

 

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/-/ddn-20201202-1

Perhaps because health insurance is mandatory in Austria and you are required to pay for medical care, by way of monthly contributions to an insurance provider. 

The NHS is top-heavy with managers and bureaucrats, so it's not always about the amount invested but where it is directed. 

 

 

[pablo]

8 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Eh…was just being a wee bit sarcy bud. 

 

No worries mate. Wasn't sure tbh. There was a lot of that "snub" chat last week. As if the British PM is obliged to swing by Bute House when he's visiting a part of the UK 😃.

 

[HartleyLegend3]

19 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

No worries mate. Wasn't sure tbh. There was a lot of that "snub" chat last week. As if the British PM is obliged to swing by Bute House when he's visiting a part of the UK 😃.

 

Sorry, I thought Nicol was elected Scotland's first minister. 

 

Boho didn't just blank the Scottish first minister, he ignored the Scottish voting public.. 

 

Bojo is untouchable. He's even got the Royals dancing to his tune.. 

 

[pablo]

Just now, HartleyLegend3 said:

Sorry, I thought Nicol was elected Scotland's first minister. 

 

Boho didn't just blank the Scottish first minister, he ignored the Scottish voting public.. 

 

Bojo is untouchable. He's even got the Royals dancing to his tune.. 

 

 

Ha ha....okay mate. He's a total knob of a man, but he's the British PM visiting part of Britain. Seriously, he really is under no obligation to see the First Minister of a devolved administration. 

[HartleyLegend3]

10 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Ha ha....okay mate. He's a total knob of a man, but he's the British PM visiting part of Britain. Seriously, he really is under no obligation to see the First Minister of a devolved administration. 

So you are saying  your vote mean F-all.. 🤔

[pablo]

4 minutes ago, HartleyLegend3 said:

So you are saying  your vote mean F-all.. 🤔

 

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean. 

[HartleyLegend3]

20 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean. 

I thought that..