More Tory lies

[WorldChampions1902]

7 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

You have no idea of the answer to my question but you claimed that Brexit denied us access to an EU law which would have helped control illegal immigration. And my illegal is not like yours in inverted commas because illegal immigration does exist. As the ineffective and unenforced law you referred to demonstrates.

I knew a Pole who it turned out was an illegal immigrant. He was deported a couple of years ago using precisely the EU legislation under discussion. So, to say that EU legislation is “ineffective” is just not true.  Of course it is NOW “ineffective”, given Brexit.

 

Another “win” for Leavers.

[Ked]

Are the EU not building walls to stop illegal immigration from Syria?

Do they not pay Turkey to police the immigrants ?

And shouldnt we be thinking about future predictions of mass migration due to economic and climatic events?

Whatever your view on Brexit it's small potatoes compared to what's coming.

We simply cannot continue to not address this problem .

Its plain nonsense to now have a polarised view on this.

 

[Francis Albert]

8 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

I knew a Pole who it turned out was an illegal immigrant. He was deported a couple of years ago using precisely the EU legislation under discussion. So, to say that EU legislation is “ineffective” is just not true.  Of course it is NOW “ineffective”, given Brexit.

 

Another “win” for Leavers.

Tje Pole presumably made it through several EU countries before getting to the UK. And few if any of the thousands crossing the Channel had their first landing in the EU in France.

[Ked]

6 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

I knew a Pole who it turned out was an illegal immigrant. He was deported a couple of years ago using precisely the EU legislation under discussion. So, to say that EU legislation is “ineffective” is just not true.  Of course it is NOW “ineffective”, given Brexit.

 

Another “win” for Leavers.

We all have examples one way or another.You dont like Brexit.

So what.

That has absolutely nothing to do with what the whole of Europe needs to consider.

It's not just the post brexit UK that's having to think of different ways of dealing with it.

The answer cannot be to allow uncontrolled migration.

It is unsustainable and that's the truth of what will steadily become an ever growing tide.

All the point scoring in the world doesnt change that.

[WorldChampions1902]

9 minutes ago, Ked said:

We all have examples one way or another.You dont like Brexit.

So what.

That has absolutely nothing to do with what the whole of Europe needs to consider.

It's not just the post brexit UK that's having to think of different ways of dealing with it.

The answer cannot be to allow uncontrolled migration.

It is unsustainable and that's the truth of what will steadily become an ever growing tide.

All the point scoring in the world doesnt change that.

A previous poster provided an example of “ineffective” EU legislation - in his view. I responded by providing a real-life example to disprove that assertion. It wasn’t “point-scoring”.

[Ked]

1 minute ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

A previous poster provided an example of “ineffective” EU legislation - in his view. I responded by providing a real-life example to disprove that assertion. It wasn’t “point-scoring”.

Sorry.

I didnt just mean you.

I meant as a whole exercise.The question of migration is really a different game altogether now.

It isnt anymore one which is shaped by political outlook.The reality of climate and the desperation will see 100 fold movements of people.

 

I just think we are arguing about a problem that isnt in anyway relevant.

Pointscoring was a silly way I put it.

 

[Roxy Hearts]

31 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Yes, of course Roxy. Likewise,  I'm not looking for an argument either.

 

Sure, 40 years ago or so, Scotland contributed more, through oil revenues , to the UK exchequer than we received in return. That certainly benefited the UK. Now, however,the opposite is the case and we benefit to the tune of £10bn - £12bn per annum.

 

I'm just calling out the attempts to deflect from the economic facts about what separation would involve.

Were Sturgeon to admit the realities and conduct a grown up conversation about the pros and cons then I would say, "yes, fair enough". But she won't because she knows it would reduce the numbers in favour.

Instead, she treats the public like idiots and deflects, denies and obfuscates. 

 

I see the opposite. How can anyone in Scotland tell us the state of our finances when Westminster won't tell us? We know the British Government are lying and treat a good percentage of the Scottish people as fools. I have no beef with the SNP other than they're not hard enough on the idiots that infest Westminster or the media. They're too timid for me. I'm not overly concerned about Scotland running its own affairs as it's the " grown up" way to think. Why do Westminster do everything in their power to keep Scotland and insult us if we're not financially viable?

[WorldChampions1902]

9 minutes ago, Ked said:

Sorry.

I didnt just mean you.

I meant as a whole exercise.The question of migration is really a different game altogether now.

It isnt anymore one which is shaped by political outlook.The reality of climate and the desperation will see 100 fold movements of people.

 

I just think we are arguing about a problem that isnt in anyway relevant.

Pointscoring was a silly way I put it.

 

Fair play. Respect.

[Francis Albert]

10 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

A previous poster provided an example of “ineffective” EU legislation - in his view. I responded by providing a real-life example to disprove that assertion. It wasn’t “point-scoring”.

One example proves it is an effective law? Or disproves it is an ineffective law? You were point scoring very  ineffectively. 

The EU referendum was won by Leave. Not my preference but get over it. 

I have just read "White" by Brett Easton Ellis who is a liberal but rightly excoriates the refusal of Clinton voters to accept that she lost. Desevedly IMO.

[WorldChampions1902]

9 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

One example proves it is an effective law? Or disproves it is an ineffective law? You were point scoring very  ineffectively. 

The EU referendum was won by Leave. Not my preference but get over it. 

I have just read "White" by Brett Easton Ellis who is a liberal but rightly excoriates the refusal of Clinton voters to accept that she lost. Desevedly IMO.

If, in my tiny little bubble, I am aware of one Pole who was subject to deportation back to Poland under EU law, it’s safe to say there are/were many, many more. Yet, you suggest that such laws are “ineffective” but have NO idea of what those figures were. Where is your evidence for the point you are failing to make?
 

Regardless of the total numbers, that statement proves that it DOES/DID work, where there is a will to enforce it. By definition therefore, those that voted for Brexit on the issue of immigration, shot themselves in the foot on this score, because we no longer have recourse to such legislation. Instead, we have recently paid France an additional £54million, to “take control” of OUR borders. And now we are threatening to break international Maritime Law by proposing to turn back dinghies mid-Channel. Absolutely laughable. Welcome to tin-pot U.K.

 

 

[Francis Albert]

22 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

If, in my tiny little bubble, I am aware of one Pole who was subject to deportation back to Poland under EU law, it’s safe to say there are/were many, many more. Yet, you suggest that such laws are “ineffective” but have NO idea of what those figures were. Where is your evidence for the point you are failing to make?
 

Regardless of the total numbers, that statement proves that it DOES/DID work, where there is a will to enforce it. By definition therefore, those that voted for Brexit on the issue of immigration, shot themselves in the foot on this score, because we no longer have recourse to such legislation. Instead, we have recently paid France an additional £54million, to “take control” of OUR borders. And now we are threatening to break international Maritime Law by proposing to turn back dinghies mid-Channel. Absolutely laughable. Welcome to tin-pot U.K.

 

 

Hunfreds of refugees each day are arriving across the Channel. I suspect not one of them entered France as their EU first landing point in the EU. So the EU law doesn't to me seem effective.. But your one Pole seemingly trumps that.

Edited September 9, 2021 by Francis Albert

[WorldChampions1902]

5 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

1000 refugees each day are arriving across the Channel. I suspect not one of them entered France as their EU first landing point in the EU. So the EU law doesn't to me seem effective.. But your one Pole seemingly trumps that.

You “suspect”.

 

Poles subject to forced deportation in 2019 was 648. Along with 1337 Romanians. Many more in the league table. Not bad for “ineffective” legislation that we can no longer invoke.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-statistics-year-ending-march-2021/how-many-people-are-detained-or-returned

 

But you “suspect”.

 

Not for the first time on here, I suggest you, “gie it a rest”.

[Savage Vince]

8 hours ago, JackLadd said:

You have zero regard for the people of Kent who have to suffer this daily and it's consequences.

 

Yip. 😊

[Francis Albert]

5 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

You “suspect”.

 

Poles subject to forced deportation in 2019 was 648. Along with 1337 Romanians. Many more in the league table. Not bad for “ineffective” legislation that we can no longer invoke.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-statistics-year-ending-march-2021/how-many-people-are-detained-or-returned

 

But you “suspect”.

 

Not for the first time on here, I suggest you, “gie it a rest”.

Thanks for your suggestion. I stand by my suspicion.

 

[Enzo Chiefo]

1 hour ago, Roxy Hearts said:

I see the opposite. How can anyone in Scotland tell us the state of our finances when Westminster won't tell us? We know the British Government are lying and treat a good percentage of the Scottish people as fools. I have no beef with the SNP other than they're not hard enough on the idiots that infest Westminster or the media. They're too timid for me. I'm not overly concerned about Scotland running its own affairs as it's the " grown up" way to think. Why do Westminster do everything in their power to keep Scotland and insult us if we're not financially viable?

I couldn't disagree more. We'll need to leave it at that, Roxy.👍

[JackLadd]

SGNP supporters by and large hate the English so anything that seriously effs them and Brexit up has to be good, including dropping a couple hundred k economic migrants a year on them from the SAFE coast of La France. I get it. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

It's strange how the same people who highlight the lack of affordable housing, demand higher spending on the NHS and education etc, while complaining that we're not doing enough to combat climate change are the very same people who seem to support unlimited immigration,  screech about "austerity" and limits on child benefits and howl about cuts to foreign aid, even to countries like feckin China and India.

 

In other words, they highlight the problems yet also reject the solutions.

[Savage Vince]

5 minutes ago, BarneyBattles said:

I don’t expect an answer by the way. I’ve been asking this question for years without ever getting a response that makes any sense. 

 

You'll be doing well to get any response from him on any subject that makes sense. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

Just now, BarneyBattles said:

Just so I’m clear. Scotland is a financial drain on Westminster to the tune of £10-12bn per annum and yet they’re still desperately trying to avoid another referendum? 
 

Something’s not adding up here and you’re the one calling us idiots? 
 

You’ve decided that you’re going to steadfastly stick by one set of figures and that’s fine but humour me; if Scotland is such a burden on the UK why wouldn’t Westminster be happy for another referendum to take place? Win win surely?

 

I don’t expect an answer by the way. I’ve been asking this question for years without ever getting a response that makes any sense. 

If it was down to the profit & loss account alone and the UK was run solely as a business then, yes, of course Scotland would have been sold off to one of these admin organisations that insurance companies sell their closed book business to.

But the vitriol is one-way - from the Nats towards England, camouflaged as WM, and is not reciprocated.

But the UK govt value the shared history, language,  trade, familial ties, culture, armed forces etc that bind our country together. Pooling and sharing resources has always been a price worth paying for rUK. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

1 minute ago, BarneyBattles said:

 

So you admit that 40 years ago Scotland contributed more than its fair share through oil revenues then in your next post claim the oil has nothing to do with Scotland as it’s all owned by companies. 
 

You’re all over the he shop. 

I'm just highlighting the folly of the "it's oor oil" brigade. The tax receipts derived from Scotland and benefited the whole UK while rUK investment allowed the businesses to thrive.  A win win.

Last time I heard La Sturge talking about "Scottish" oil she was passing the buck to the UK. You're right - she was "all over the shop"

[Unknown user]

5 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

If it was down to the profit & loss account alone and the UK was run solely as a business then, yes, of course Scotland would have been sold off to one of these admin organisations that insurance companies sell their closed book business to.

But the vitriol is one-way - from the Nats towards England, camouflaged as WM, and is not reciprocated.

But the UK govt value the shared history, language,  trade, familial ties, culture, armed forces etc that bind our country together. Pooling and sharing resources has always been a price worth paying for rUK. 

 

[Ked]

Leave the oil in the ground whose ever it is.

Its worthless.

[Enzo Chiefo]

5 minutes ago, BarneyBattles said:

Total and utter bollocks. You’re seriously trying to tell me that BJ’s tories who would sell their granny for a profit want to keep Scotland for those reasons😂

 

Thatcher herself said there’s no such thing as society so sorry if I’m laughing my cock off that you think this Tory government would waste £12bn a year on us because of WWII and familial ties😂😂😂

How many countries around the world actively want to sell off part of their sovereign nation? 

Like Spain , we need a constitution that enforces in law, the indivisibility of any part of the sovereign nation. Would bring an end to all the Nationalist pish we've tolerated for years.

[Enzo Chiefo]

7 minutes ago, BarneyBattles said:

No you weren’t. You clearly stated in one post that oil revenue was Scotland’s then said the exact opposite in another post shortly afterwards. 
 

A career as a Tory MP beckons for you. 

I said it "derived" from Scottish tax receipts

[Roxy Hearts]

13 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

If it was down to the profit & loss account alone and the UK was run solely as a business then, yes, of course Scotland would have been sold off to one of these admin organisations that insurance companies sell their closed book business to.

But the vitriol is one-way - from the Nats towards England, camouflaged as WM, and is not reciprocated.

But the UK govt value the shared history, language,  trade, familial ties, culture, armed forces etc that bind our country together. Pooling and sharing resources has always been a price worth paying for rUK. 

I don't hate England. I've got English family and friends and absolutely nothing would change those ties. Couldn't care less about the armed forces or perceived culture. I dislike unionists and Britnats and have more dislike for some fellow Scots! Scotland is  a very, very wealthy country. Robbing and keeping our resources isn't the same as pooling and sharing! Scotland would be fairly self sufficient. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

6 minutes ago, BarneyBattles said:

last time I looked, Spain wasn’t a collection of different countries😂

What is a "country"?😂

[Enzo Chiefo]

4 minutes ago, BarneyBattles said:

The United Kingdom consists of four countries: England, Scotland, Walesand Northern Ireland.^[22] Other than England, the constituent countries have their own devolved governments, each with varying powers.^[23][24][25]

 

^{You don’t seem to know much about the Union for a rabid unionist.} 

And Spain has 50 provinces, many with their own nationalist movements.  Catalonia play international football fixtures too and if I'm not mistaken,  the SNP supported their demands for an independence referendum. 

[Beni]

16 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

I'm just highlighting the folly of the "it's oor oil" brigade. The tax receipts derived from Scotland and benefited the whole UK while rUK investment allowed the businesses to thrive.  A win win.

Last time I heard La Sturge talking about "Scottish" oil she was passing the buck to the UK. You're right - she was "all over the shop"

 

Plucky little Norway with the same population as Scotland, managed to get their oil out of the North Sea.

 

They have also managed to accumulate the world's biggest sovereign wealth fund along the way.

 

Just imagine how much more they could have achieved with access to all that rUK investment.

[Enzo Chiefo]

1 minute ago, Beni said:

 

Plucky little Norway with the same population as Scotland, managed to get their oil out of the North Sea.

 

They have also managed to accumulate the world's biggest sovereign wealth fund along the way.

 

Just imagine how much more they could have achieved with access to all that rUK investment.

Norway comparisons again🤣

[Enzo Chiefo]

Just now, BarneyBattles said:

So you agree that Spain isn’t a union of separate countries then and therefore is completely irrelevant when discussing the UK. 

Very relevant.  Again, what is a "country"?

[Roxy Hearts]

1 minute ago, Beni said:

 

Plucky little Norway with the same population as Scotland, managed to get their oil out of the North Sea.

 

They have also managed to accumulate the world's biggest sovereign wealth fund along the way.

 

Just imagine how much more they could have achieved with access to all that rUK investment.

Don't tell them that. We need the UK's broad shoulders, budgets, formulas etc. We're too wee to manage our affairs.

[Roxy Hearts]

Just now, Enzo Chiefo said:

Very relevant.  Again, what is a "country"?

Norway!

[Beni]

2 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Norway comparisons again🤣

 

Just using Norway to highlight that your point about rUK investment being integral to the successful exploitation of North see oil is nonsense. 

 

 

 

[Roxy Hearts]

2 minutes ago, BarneyBattles said:

Don’t forget too stupid as well. That’s the clincher. England voted for Brexit but Scotland is too stupid to survive without them😂

England and especially London is a drain on Scotland's resources. In fact London is a drain on a lot of other English cities resources too. Dreadful city. I've been all over the world and London is a one of the most awful places on the planet relative to other major cities I've been to.

[Enzo Chiefo]

7 minutes ago, BarneyBattles said:

You’ve gone from being very confident that we cost rUK £12bn a year and ‘you’ll always point that out to idiots’ to this?

 

😂

As do other parts of the UK, like the NE of England. Do you think the Govt want rid of them too?

You mentioned countries, not me. I'm not sure what difference an imaginary line makes. Scotland,  Yorkshire, Wales, Dorset. All parts of the UK to me. Only one seems to obsess about freedumb. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

7 hours ago, JackLadd said:

SGNP supporters by and large hate the English so anything that seriously effs them and Brexit up has to be good, including dropping a couple hundred k economic migrants a year on them from the SAFE coast of La France. I get it. 

[The Mighty Thor]

8 hours ago, JackLadd said:

SGNP supporters by and large hate the English so anything that seriously effs them and Brexit up has to be good, including dropping a couple hundred k economic migrants a year on them from the SAFE coast of La France. I get it. 

Sneaking back in with more of your right wing nonsense? 

Wanting Scotland to determine her own affairs is very different from hating England, unless of course you read far right websites and can't think for yourself. 

England has its own problems, toxic nationalism and a criminal gang masquerading as a government has left England where it is today, but hey that's democracy. You get what you vote for.

As for Brexit, the only outcome ever was a shitshow and so it is coming to pass. 

The union died with the empire, the sooner you're able to process this the quicker you'll be able to wrap your head around the 21st century geopolitical world. 

[Konrad von Carstein]

9 hours ago, JackLadd said:

SGNP supporters by and large hate the English so anything that seriously effs them and Brexit up has to be good, including dropping a couple hundred k economic migrants a year on them from the SAFE coast of La France. I get it. 

This is a floating turd in a sea of never ending effluent from you.

Away and no talk sh... Oh!

[Cade]

Scotland has a GDP roughly the same as New Zealand.

Dinnae remember NZ going bust or begging to be allowed back into the English Empire.

 

Scotland has a GDP per capita which is higher than South Korea and only slightly less than Japan.

I also don't recall those places being destitute wastelands.

 

In fact, Scotland's GDP per capita really isn't that much different than the UK one.

[Victorian]

This £10bn or so figure being papped out as irrefutable fact is nothing of the sort.  It's perhaps one interpretation of the so-called union dividend,  based on one interpretation of what represent Scottish / UK GDP and tax receipts,  etc.  Either within the framework of the current UK structure or after an independent Scotland.  

 

Only a fully independent commission doing a full analysis of current and notional public accounts under both sets of circumstances would reveal something akin to a reliable figure.  Someone seems to be placing way too much reliance on one version of the figures.  Possibly supplied by the Daily Telegraph or Nigel Farage.

Edited September 10, 2021 by Victorian

[HartleyLegend3]

In one breath the Yoon will say Scotland is a drain costing England billions every year. 

And then say the independence movement is anti-english. 

 

With those facts. The independence movement want England to keep those billions. Marcus Rashford would be happy. England can now feed their hungry kids. 

 

So actually it's the Yoons who are anti-english. They want the English kids to continually go hungry. 

 

There's a growing movement in England now. 

 

[manaliveits105]

I would have thought the English are fed up of our constantly whinging snp inept politicians and Scotland getting handed dosh and free everything - who would blame them 

Unfortunately Scotland would suffer many more years of austerity whilst Sturgeon would retire from politics and join loose women - hopefully the silent majority in Scotland amongst the 65% who didn’t vote Krankie will say NAW if she ever risks losing control by actually trying to set an illegal referendumb .

[Konrad von Carstein]

1 minute ago, manaliveits105 said:

I would have thought the English are fed up of our constantly whinging snp inept politicians and Scotland getting handed dosh and free everything - who would blame them 

Unfortunately Scotland would suffer many more years of austerity whilst Sturgeon would retire from politics and join loose women - hopefully the silent majority in Scotland amongst the 65% who didn’t vote Krankie will say NAW if she ever risks losing control by actually trying to set an illegal referendumb .

Even if (big if) you were making coherent,  well thought out and presented opinions, they are, as always negated by your "hilarious" use of Krankie, referendum etc...

[The Mighty Thor]

5 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

I would have thought the English are fed up of our constantly whinging snp inept politicians and Scotland getting handed dosh and free everything - who would blame them 

Unfortunately Scotland would suffer many more years of austerity whilst Sturgeon would retire from politics and join loose women - hopefully the silent majority in Scotland amongst the 65% who didn’t vote Krankie will say NAW if she ever risks losing control by actually trying to set an illegal referendumb .

Father Jack-esque word salad of nonsense. 

 

Broken. Absolutely ruined by Sturgeon.

[manaliveits105]

Im not French 

[Ron Burgundy]

Just now, manaliveits105 said:

Im not French 

😆

[The Mighty Thor]

Surprisingly Johnson's whizz-o idea to have a tunnel between Scotland and Norn Iron has been killed off as a 'stupid idea' by the UK treasury.

 

This government and stupid ideas? What are they like eh? 

Edited September 14, 2021 by The Mighty Thor

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

3 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

Bojo’s mum passes away. 

I wish she'd had an abortion.

[Cade]

Tory whips are apparently threatening MPs with a reduction in "town deal" funding unless they vote the way the Government wants.

 

Staggering.

 

 

[Konrad von Carstein]

With leadership of this calibre, what have we to fear?