More Tory lies

[Francis Albert]

 

39 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Not a fan of Johnson but I’m fairly certain he’s having a laugh. Surely  

Maybe an ill advised joke but a joke all the same. 

The frothers will get mileage out it though. 

A joke of course but a grain of truth in it.  Though of course Thatcher's motives were very different. He might have given some credit to Arthur Scargill too!

[jack D and coke]

4 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

We'll go out on the prowl when I get back to the UK and you can feed off my scraps, jack. They'll still be top-notch. 👍

 

(aye right )

 

Stragglers will do me pal. I’m not a fussy lad..

[Francis Albert]

On 03/08/2021 at 17:47, Footballfirst said:

The latest from the Good Law Project.

 

Lord Bethell is the Health Minister responsible for overseeing the award of Covid contracts. His time as Health Minister has been mired in controversy: from failing to declare meetings with firms that won huge Government contracts, to using his personal email address to conduct Government business. Good Law Project has a particular interest in the role he played in the controversial award of lucrative contracts to Abingdon Health.

Last week in Court, we argued against the Government’s attempts to apply blanket redactions to documents relating to the Abingdon Health contracts. We were successful – an important step towards transparency.

But the hearing uncovered something more alarming. In sworn evidence, Government admitted that some of Lord Bethell’s dealings with Abingdon had been conducted via WhatsApp or text message, and were held only on his private mobile phone. If that was the case for Abingdon, why not other VIPs too? 

What’s more, in December last year, Lord Bethell was told his mobile phone would be searched for documents relating to this case. Just weeks later, it seems, he ‘replaced’ his phone because, Government lawyers say, it was ‘broken’. They are now not sure it will be possible to retrieve the WhatsApp and text messages.

Lord Bethell has overseen the awarding of billions of pounds of public contracts. Information revealing how these contracts came to be awarded may now be lost – or even destroyed.

During the hearing, the Judge expressed alarm about the Government’s failure to preserve evidence and insisted the ‘Order’ he made at the conclusion of the hearing refer to the Government’s obligation to preserve relevant documents.

Our lawyers have written to the Government to demand answers. When did Bethell learn his phone would be searched? When did he report it as broken? What attempts were made to save crucial information from his old phone? If none, why not?

This Government seems allergic to scrutiny: redacting some documents, hiding others from public scrutiny via ‘confidentiality rings’, permitting Ministers to award billions in public money via private, as well as official, channels, and failing to protect evidence from destruction.

We are taking action to close this accountability gap. 

Has this hit the MSM yet. With so much coverage of non-news they or at least some of them should be all over it.

[SectionDJambo]

1 hour ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Trump in disguise.

All but saying it with wind turbines in the background, which his pal in America hates. 

[Victorian]

Johnson couldn't even express a coherent response when he was being asked why he wouldn't meet the FM.  You could visibly see the gears,  belts & pulleys trying to crank into motion but nothing of any sense was being vocalised.

 

The Labour Party is poor but to even partly explain or excuse the government's ineptitude and corruption by pointing towards a similarly inept opposition is a spectacular work of ill conceived logic.

[Cruyff]

Boris says something offensive to someone shock horror. 

[Governor Tarkin]

7 minutes ago, Victorian said:

The Labour Party is poor but to even partly explain or excuse the government's ineptitude and corruption by pointing towards a similarly inept opposition is a spectacular work of ill conceived logic.

 

They've been given a free hand, Vic.

There's **** all ill concieved about pointing that out.

[Victorian]

3 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

They've been given a free hand, Vic.

There's **** all ill concieved about pointing that out.

 

This so called 'free hand' is no justification or legitimacy for the utter idiocy of government and grand larceny of public money via various dubious procurement activities.  There is no 'free hand'.  The opposition's ability to bring scrutiny is a separate matter.  It's inadequate.

 

Wrongdoing is always the fault of the wrongdoing party.  The opposition is not responsible for any wrongdoing and not accountable for not preventing it.

[jack D and coke]

18 minutes ago, Victorian said:

Johnson couldn't even express a coherent response when he was being asked why he wouldn't meet the FM.  You could visibly see the gears,  belts & pulleys trying to crank into motion but nothing of any sense was being vocalised.

 

The Labour Party is poor but to even partly explain or excuse the government's ineptitude and corruption by pointing towards a similarly inept opposition is a spectacular work of ill conceived logic.

Do Labour even want elected? You wouldn’t think so with the people they appoint. 
Starmer could (unbelievably) be worse than Corbyn. An empty suit if ever I’ve seen one who cant land a glove on probably the most corrupt govt we’ve ever seen in British history. Even perverting the course of justice “losing their phones” The British govt done deals with burner phones you honestly couldn’t make this shit up 🤣
Then sir Keir stammering away about how Scotland can have another indyref when they (who aren’t even in power yet)decide. The mandate is there and it can’t be denied. It’s the SNP who don’t want it imo. Scotland should take control of this imo all this nicey nice stuff is a handy get out and excuse for the SNP too.

Next week the nonsense that are GERS will be published and everyone up here who thinks we’re utterly hopeless at everything gets to kick lumps out us again and enjoy mocking their own nation. 
And on it’ll go…

[Governor Tarkin]

Just now, Victorian said:

 

This so called 'free hand' is no justification or legitimacy for the utter idiocy of government and grand larceny of public money via various dubious procurement activities.  There is no 'free hand'.  The opposition's ability to bring scrutiny is a separate matter.  It's inadequate.

 

Wrongdoing is always the fault of the wrongdoing party.  The opposition is not responsible for any wrongdoing and not accountable for not preventing it.

 

So the brazen corruption openly displayed by the current government has nothing at all to do with the fact that nobody at Westminster is willing or able to hold them to any sort of account?

 

A lack of accountability or censorship is in no way encouraging them to push the boundaries as far as they can?

 

The burglar will always be the bad guy, but if you leave the front door open for him then don't be surprised when the burgler does what burglers do.

 

Nobody has laid a glove on there ****s, and that's unlikely to be a coincidence.

[Governor Tarkin]

Just now, jack D and coke said:

Do Labour even want elected? You wouldn’t think so with the people they appoint. 
Starmer could (unbelievably) be worse than Corbyn. An empty suit if ever I’ve seen one who cant land a glove on probably the most corrupt govt we’ve ever seen in British history.

 

Saw Starmer and Sarwar on the telly yesterday and Sarwar looked the more confident and convincing of the two.

 

You could see the fear on Starmers face when being asked questions. Constantly glancing over at Sarwar with the 'come and save me' eyes.

 

Pathetic.

[The Mighty Thor]

5 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

This so called 'free hand' is no justification or legitimacy for the utter idiocy of government and grand larceny of public money via various dubious procurement activities.  There is no 'free hand'.  The opposition's ability to bring scrutiny is a separate matter.  It's inadequate.

 

Wrongdoing is always the fault of the wrongdoing party.  The opposition is not responsible for any wrongdoing and not accountable for not preventing it.

Vic, 

Starmer & his party should be dining out 'all you can eat buffet style' on the ineptitude and criminality of Johnson's Government. They are not. He's still not landed a glove on Johnson. It's mesmeric. 

 

The fact that Ian Blackford is landing all the punches is a breathtaking statement in itself. 

 

Labour should be shouting long and loud through print media & social media and holding Johnson's criminal gang to account in the court of public opinion. It's easy. post clips of Johnson's lies, print them, put it in the public sphere where real people actually see it and not the once a week, half hour bating session in Westminster, which Starmer abjectly fails at every single week.

 

[XB52]

3 hours ago, Nucky Thompson said:

 

Fecking brilliant Boris

I know you are a britnat but surely even you can't think that comment was anything other than crass, insensitive and a huge own goal from that idiot.

[henryheart]

3 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

So the brazen corruption openly displayed by the current government has nothing at all to do with the fact that nobody at Westminster is willing or able to hold them to any sort of account?

 

A lack of accountability or censorship is in no way encouraging them to push the boundaries as far as they can?

 

The burglar will always be the bad guy, but if you leave the front door open for him then don't be surprised when the burgler does what burglers do.

 

Nobody has laid a glove on there ****s, and that's unlikely to be a coincidence.

 

You could just as well substitute Holyrood for Westminster. They are both as bad as each other, although unlike Holyrood which is not graced with the brightest of sparks, lurking in the background at Westminster will be those with brains just waiting on the right moment to pounce - during a pandemic when unpopular decisions will have to be made is not the right time.   

[jack D and coke]

8 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Saw Starmer and Sarwar on the telly yesterday and Sarwar looked the more confident and convincing of the two.

 

You could see the fear on Starmers face when being asked questions. Constantly glancing over at Sarwar with the 'come and save me' eyes.

 

Pathetic.

Aye. He’s a joke mate  Sarwar as big a joke imo. 

We should all be Labour voters really. You couldn’t vote for those *****!!

[Victorian]

Nah,  let's prosecute the responsible entity and separately prosecute the entity that should be making a better job of scrutiny.  They are two separate matters.

[XB52]

14 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Do Labour even want elected? You wouldn’t think so with the people they appoint. 
Starmer could (unbelievably) be worse than Corbyn. An empty suit if ever I’ve seen one who cant land a glove on probably the most corrupt govt we’ve ever seen in British history. Even perverting the course of justice “losing their phones” The British govt done deals with burner phones you honestly couldn’t make this shit up 🤣
Then sir Keir stammering away about how Scotland can have another indyref when they (who aren’t even in power yet)decide. The mandate is there and it can’t be denied. It’s the SNP who don’t want it imo. Scotland should take control of this imo all this nicey nice stuff is a handy get out and excuse for the SNP too.

Next week the nonsense that are GERS will be published and everyone up here who thinks we’re utterly hopeless at everything gets to kick lumps out us again and enjoy mocking their own nation. 
And on it’ll go…

The SNP certainly want it and that will be shown at their annual conference. The independence campaign kicks off then. Anyone who prefers BJ or Starmer to running ourselves needs sectioned IMO

[The Mighty Thor]

12 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

We should all be Labour voters really. You couldn’t vote for those *****!!

I've said it for years. Labour are done. Finished.

 

In Scotland the only hope is for a new party with the values that Labour had but relevant for the 21st century, with the interest of Scotland and its citizens at it's core. 

 

The branch office and the latest chair filler ain't going to cut it. 

[jack D and coke]

9 minutes ago, XB52 said:

The SNP certainly want it and that will be shown at their annual conference. The independence campaign kicks off then. Anyone who prefers BJ or Starmer to running ourselves needs sectioned IMO

I voted SNP last time but that is the last time they get it unless they sort themselves out. I’ll just stop voting altogether.
They’ve went way off track and the stench surrounding the Salmond affair etc doesn’t sit well with me tbh. 
Salmond’s stock has certainly fallen a lot over the last few years and I’m not a fan of his anymore. But I felt much more for his SNP than this one. He was quite brash and brave with stuff. This one has virtually nothing redeeming about it at all imo. 

[jack D and coke]

2 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

I've said it for years. Labour are done. Finished.

 

In Scotland the only hope is for a new party with the values that Labour had but relevant for the 21st century, with the interest of Scotland and its citizens at it's core. 

 

The branch office and the latest chair filler ain't going to cut it. 

Yeah agree bud. 

[Pasquale for King]

35 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Vic, 

Starmer & his party should be dining out 'all you can eat buffet style' on the ineptitude and criminality of Johnson's Government. They are not. He's still not landed a glove on Johnson. It's mesmeric. 

 

The fact that Ian Blackford is landing all the punches is a breathtaking statement in itself. 

 

Labour should be shouting long and loud through print media & social media and holding Johnson's criminal gang to account in the court of public opinion. It's easy. post clips of Johnson's lies, print them, put it in the public sphere where real people actually see it and not the once a week, half hour bating session in Westminster, which Starmer abjectly fails at every single week.

 

Spot on. 

[Pasquale for King]

13 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

I've said it for years. Labour are done. Finished.

 

In Scotland the only hope is for a new party with the values that Labour had but relevant for the 21st century, with the interest of Scotland and its citizens at it's core. 

 

The branch office and the latest chair filler ain't going to cut it. 

After independence they will need to rebrand anyway, the young folk in the party realise that Independence is the only way back for them. 

[Governor Tarkin]

30 minutes ago, Victorian said:

Nah,  let's prosecute the responsible entity and separately prosecute the entity that should be making a better job of scrutiny.  They are two separate matters.

 

You can be as passively aggressively dismissive as you like, Victorian, but that doesn't change the fact that practically no opposition enables a ruling party to openly do what the **** it likes. There is innumerable historical precedent for this from

 countless countries acress the world.

 

42 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Vic, 

Starmer & his party should be dining out 'all you can eat buffet style' on the ineptitude and criminality of Johnson's Government. They are not. He's still not landed a glove on Johnson. It's mesmeric. 

 

The fact that Ian Blackford is landing all the punches is a breathtaking statement in itself. 

 

Labour should be shouting long and loud through print media & social media and holding Johnson's criminal gang to account in the court of public opinion. It's easy. post clips of Johnson's lies, print them, put it in the public sphere where real people actually see it and not the once a week, half hour bating session in Westminster, which Starmer abjectly fails at every single week.

 

 

Spot on. The problem is that they're all courting the same corporate and establishment paymasters, give or take. They're terrified to point the finger too hard.

 

18 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

I've said it for years. Labour are done. Finished.

 

In their current guise, also spot on.

 

18 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

In Scotland the only hope is for a new party with the values that Labour had but relevant for the 21st century, with the interest of Scotland and its citizens at it's core. 

 

This is looking increasingly likely, and it's a great shame.

 

Brexit ruined any hopes of internationalism and plurality for the common good that I held for the United Kingdom.

 

Instead, the race to the bottom is gathering pace.

 

 

Edited August 6, 2021 by Governor Tarkin

[The Mighty Thor]

1 minute ago, Governor Tarkin said:

Spot on. The problem is that they're all courting the same corporate and establishment paymasters, give or take.

 

I believe that to be true of Johnson's government. I have no doubt (and of course no proof) that there's some proper shady characters that are pulling his strings. He never did come clean over the Russian money or the clandestine meetings with Russian 'fixers'.

 

1 minute ago, Governor Tarkin said:

This is looking increasingly likely, and it's a great shame.

 

Brexit ruined any hopes of internationalism and plurality for the common good that I held for the United Kingdom.

 

The race to the bottom is gathering pace.

 

If Scotland is going to progress both as a country and an international entity then it really has to de-couple from the rotting corpse of the UK/British empire. That's a ship that is going to sink and take all hands with it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[manaliveits105]

Scotland is right in the race to the bottom with our current SG buffoons and Blackford 

[Governor Tarkin]

4 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

 

If Scotland is going to progress both as a country and an international entity then it really has to de-couple from the rotting corpse of the UK/British empire. That's a ship that is going to sink and take all hands with it.

 

 

Short of a bloody revolution, probably, aye.

 

This current mob (because that's what they are) are running the UK into the ground to both their and their puppetmasters benefit. Syphoning off our children's future with a flippant greed that's inconceivable to the average person.

[Governor Tarkin]

2 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Scotland is right in the race to the bottom with our current SG buffoons and Blackford 

 

Also correct. I bring you back to the least smelly shite in the bog analogy.

[Beni]

Recipe for happiness in life:

Find someone that looks at you the way Priti looks at Boris.

 

[Victorian]

19 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

You can be as passively aggressively dismissive as you like, Victorian, but that doesn't change the fact that practically no opposition enables a ruling party to openly do what the **** it likes. There is innumerable historical precedent for this from

 countless countries acress the world.

 

 

Spot on. The problem is that they're all courting the same corporate and establishment paymasters, give or take. They're terrified to point the finger too hard.

 

 

In their current guise, also spot on.

 

 

This is looking increasingly likely, and it's a great shame.

 

Brexit ruined any hopes of internationalism and plurality for the common good that I held for the United Kingdom.

 

Instead, the race to the bottom is gathering pace.

 

 

 

Eh?  It was just a normal comment and in no way passively aggressive.  

[Governor Tarkin]

[Jambo-Jimbo]

2 hours ago, The Old Tolbooth said:

 

Probably because Labour governments of the past had their noses in the same trough as well, there's plenty to uncover with that lot too, but nowhere near as much as their blues brothers I would think. 

 

I've said it many times now, the only difference between any of them is the colour of rosette they wear.

[John Findlay]

3 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

Pretty much aye….similar sort of scenario trying to find a bursd for me these days an all😕

Trying shiting in the women's toilet in a pub/club then😉

[XB52]

2 hours ago, manaliveits105 said:

Scotland is right in the race to the bottom with our current SG buffoons and Blackford 

😁😁 You really are struggling as your tory masters show themselves as utter buffoons(being very polite). 

[XB52]

2 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

I voted SNP last time but that is the last time they get it unless they sort themselves out. I’ll just stop voting altogether.
They’ve went way off track and the stench surrounding the Salmond affair etc doesn’t sit well with me tbh. 
Salmond’s stock has certainly fallen a lot over the last few years and I’m not a fan of his anymore. But I felt much more for his SNP than this one. He was quite brash and brave with stuff. This one has virtually nothing redeeming about it at all imo. 

It's called independence. Unfortunately AS decided he was more important than that goal and so he is consigned to history. It's a shame that his ego was bigger than our country

[Francis Albert]

4 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

 

I believe that to be true of Johnson's government. I have no doubt (and of course no proof) that there's some proper shady characters that are pulling his strings. He never did come clean over the Russian money or the clandestine meetings with Russian 'fixers'.

 

 

If Scotland is going to progress both as a country and an international entity then it really has to de-couple from the rotting corpse of the UK/British empire. That's a ship that is going to sink and take all hands with it. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The British Empire died about 5 decades ago. Scots paid a disproportionately large part in creating it, extending it, running it and made some contribution to accepting its death. In line with the new required level of awareness (or wokeness if you must) I hope Scotland and we Scots are going to face up to our history andnot just claim it was all down to England.

[jack D and coke]

4 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

The British Empire died about 5 decades ago. Scots paid a disproportionately large part in creating it, extending it, running it and made some contribution to accepting its death. In line with the new required level of awareness (or wokeness if you must) I hope Scotland and we Scots are going to face up to our history andnot just claim it was all down to England.

The British empire was nothing to do with me. I’m neither proud nor ashamed of its past. If it ends then nobody alive on either side of the border has to take any blame imo. It’s part of scotlands history though and some Scots were baw deep in all it’s excesses and that shouldn’t be forgotten. 

[The Mighty Thor]

15 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

The British Empire died about 5 decades ago. Scots paid a disproportionately large part in creating it, extending it, running it and made some contribution to accepting its death. In line with the new required level of awareness (or wokeness if you must) I hope Scotland and we Scots are going to face up to our history andnot just claim it was all down to England.

In classic FA style

 

where did uh say that likesy

[Francis Albert]

22 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

The British empire was nothing to do with me. I’m neither proud nor ashamed of its past. If it ends then nobody alive on either side of the border has to take any blame imo. It’s part of scotlands history though and some Scots were baw deep in all it’s excesses and that shouldn’t be forgotten. 

Agreed. I wasn't suggesting people today should accept blame any more than for the racism and homophobia of the past. Although "wokeness" seems sometimes to require it).

[Francis Albert]

54 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

In classic FA style

 

where did uh say that likesy

 

What did I say you said likesy?

[bairdy]

8 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

Thatcher was just trying to save the planet when she closed the pits.

 

  

 

As an ex miner I think what he  said was absolutely disgraceful,

Everyone knows Thatcher closed the mines to weaken the NUM, and take on the unions, not just the miners union.

And the worst part of it is, he knows that full well.

I bloody hate tories!

 

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

16 minutes ago, bairdy said:

As an ex miner I think what he  said was absolutely disgraceful,

Everyone knows Thatcher closed the mines to weaken the NUM, and take on the unions, not just the miners union.

And the worst part of it is, he knows that full well.

I bloody hate tories!

 

 

She was definitely filth.

[Nucky Thompson]

33 minutes ago, bairdy said:

As an ex miner I think what he  said was absolutely disgraceful,

Everyone knows Thatcher closed the mines to weaken the NUM, and take on the unions, not just the miners union.

And the worst part of it is, he knows that full well.

I bloody hate tories!

 

 

The unions were grinding the country to a halt, calling strikes for the smallest thing.

 

I'm old enough to remember the Winter of discontent.

 

 

[Francis Albert]

19 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

The unions were grinding the country to a halt, calling strikes for the smallest thing.

 

I'm old enough to remember the Winter of discontent.

 

 

There probably wouldn't have been a Thatcher government  if the unions had not brought down the Labour government of Jim Callaghan. Even then the miners strike would not have had the same outcome if Mick McGahey had not been robbed of the presidency of the NUM  by the predecessor of Scargill who waited until McGahey was 55 so.unable to succeed him. McGahey was loyal to Scargill (as he was by nature) but would not have split the union in the way the egotistical self publicist Scargill did. Scargill played into Thatcher's hands.

Lions led by a donkey.

[manaliveits105]

37 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

The unions were grinding the country to a halt, calling strikes for the smallest thing.

 

I'm old enough to remember the Winter of discontent.

 

 

Correct they were the architects of their own demise 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

12 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

There probably wouldn't have been a Thatcher government  if the unions had not brought down the Labour government of Jim Callaghan. Even then the miners strike would not have had the same outcome if Mick McGahey had not been robbed of the presidency of the NUM  by the predecessor of Scargill who waited until McGahey was 55 so.unable to succeed him. McGahey was loyal to Scargill (as he was by nature) but would not have split the union in the way the egotistical self publicist Scargill did. Scargill played into Thatcher's hands.

Lions led by a donkey.

 

That he did.

 

[Unknown user]

2 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

The British Empire died about 5 decades ago. Scots paid a disproportionately large part in creating it, extending it, running it and made some contribution to accepting its death. In line with the new required level of awareness (or wokeness if you must) I hope Scotland and we Scots are going to face up to our history andnot just claim it was all down to England.

 

England decided what Britain did then, same as they do now.

 

But really, so what? Nowt to do with me, I rarely colonise anyone

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 hour ago, bairdy said:

As an ex miner I think what he  said was absolutely disgraceful,

Everyone knows Thatcher closed the mines to weaken the NUM, and take on the unions, not just the miners union.

And the worst part of it is, he knows that full well.

I bloody hate tories!

 

 

 

And Scargill played right into her hands, she needed to make an example of him & the NUM, which scared the shit out of most of the other unions, whom as I recall, rather meekly accepted all the law changes on unions which followed in the wake of the miners strike.

 

Thatcher & Scargill, two strong willed characters, but there was always only ever going to be one winner.

[Governor Tarkin]

15 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

But really, so what? Nowt to do with me, I rarely colonise anyone

 

You should give it a go. 

There's money in it. 👍

[Francis Albert]

17 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

England decided what Britain did then, same as they do now.

 

But really, so what? Nowt to do with me, I rarely colonise anyone

Britain decided what Britain did. Just as Greater Glasgow will largely do for Scotland in an independent Scotland. 

Before the union Scotland was keen on establishing its own empire. But we weren't very good at it. Or more kindly lacked the resources.

[jack D and coke]

2 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

Britain decided what Britain did. Just as Greater Glasgow will largely do for Scotland in an independent Scotland. 

Before the union Scotland was keen on establishing its own empire. But we weren't very good at it. Or more kindly lacked the resources.

Bit more to it than that. So many things went wrong. And we tried to do it as the alien act was to cripple Scotland. 
England didn’t want surrounded by enemies as we were allies with the french. They forced us into union and some people hugely benefited. 
Maybe we all have in some ways I suppose.

We could’ve also joined a union with the Dutch. Wonder how that would’ve turned out.