Astronomy / The Universe

[Cade]

"Of the Earth and for the Earth, Endeavour is ready to go"

[maroonlegions]

On 22/04/2021 at 11:51, Cade said:

The MOXIE experiment on board Perseverance has successfully produced pure oxygen from the Martian atmosphere.

 

That could be a game changer.

 

 

Some day the teck could be there for "terraforming"..

 

 

"Nonetheless, Eric Vaz thinks that someday certain hardy plants from Earth could be grown on Mars. “In fact, I think we will need to bring plants and think about terraforming if we are serious about having people live on Mars,” said Vaz, a professor of geographical analysis at Ryerson University. Plants could play a role in life-support systems because they recycle water and oxygen while filtering out carbon dioxide. Vaz recently co-authored a study, published in Life Sciences in Space Research, that lays out a new framework for small-scale terraforming on Mars.

 

The Martian atmosphere is 95 percent carbon dioxide, with just trace amounts of oxygen and water vapor. Since terraforming Mars on a global scale would be extremely difficult with current technology, Vaz instead envisions a future in which terraforming would happen in small enclosed areas.

 

Cultivating Ideas for Mars

 

[Cade]

The production of oxygen from the Martian atmosphere isn't really only about human habitation, but also gives us the ability to produce fuel on Mars, which is the real game changer.

Without having to carry twice the fuel load, rockets to and from would be lighter, faster and cheaper.

 

I think SpaceX is testing SN15 tomorrow too.

[JFK-1]

I recall reading a few years ago that current thinking suggests it isn't possible to create an Earth like environment we could live in on Mars. Reasoning like this is given.
 

Quote

Using data from rovers and spacecrafts that have been monitoring Mars, the team in the study identified all of the planet's possible reservoirs of carbon dioxide and their potential contributions to the atmosphere.

The researchers also took into account the continuous leaking of atmospheric CO2 into space.
 

The study concludes that at best, the readily accessible carbon dioxide could only triple Mars's atmospheric pressure, which is only one fiftieth of the change needed to make Mars habitable. It would increase the surface temperature by less than 10°C.

Mars also can't support a thick enough atmosphere for humans because it doesn't have the same magnetic field as Earth does.

Earth's molten core creates a magnetic field surrounding our planet that helps to protect the atmosphere from the Sun. Harmful rays from the Sun are deflected by the magnetic field, so they don't hit the atmosphere and damage it.

It's thought that Mars once also had a molten core and a magnetic field, but lost it billions of years ago.

Now Mars is unprotected from the solar wind, a stream of particles from the Sun into space. This means that gas in Mars's thin atmosphere is constantly leaking into space.

Recent missions to Mars have shown that the majority of the planet's ancient, potentially habitable atmosphere has been lost to space, stripped away by solar wind and radiation.

The authors say, 'Once gas is lost it will very quickly become ionised and carried away by the solar wind. Once lost, it is gone and unable to come back.

 

[Maple Leaf]

On 23/04/2021 at 14:01, maroonlegions said:

That could be a game changer.

 

 

Some day the teck could be there for "terraforming"..

 

 

"Nonetheless, Eric Vaz thinks that someday certain hardy plants from Earth could be grown on Mars. “In fact, I think we will need to bring plants and think about terraforming if we are serious about having people live on Mars,” said Vaz, a professor of geographical analysis at Ryerson University. Plants could play a role in life-support systems because they recycle water and oxygen while filtering out carbon dioxide. Vaz recently co-authored a study, published in Life Sciences in Space Research, that lays out a new framework for small-scale terraforming on Mars.

 

The Martian atmosphere is 95 percent carbon dioxide, with just trace amounts of oxygen and water vapor. Since terraforming Mars on a global scale would be extremely difficult with current technology, Vaz instead envisions a future in which terraforming would happen in small enclosed areas.

 

Cultivating Ideas for Mars

 

 

My biology knowledge is very slim, but plants won't grow in sterile soil as far as I know. Plants that have evolved in earth's ecosystem won't survive anywhere else.

 

I could be wrong.

[JFK-1]

Why Humans Will Never Colonise Mars

 

 

[maroonlegions]

5 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

Why Humans Will Never Colonise Mars

 

 

Yes but science evolves.

 

What science knows today might not be the be and end all ...

 

NASA and some of its scientists are of the opinion that one day the teck will be there.  

[maroonlegions]

On 26/04/2021 at 12:33, Maple Leaf said:

 

My biology knowledge is very slim, but plants won't grow in sterile soil as far as I know. Plants that have evolved in earth's ecosystem won't survive anywhere else.

 

I could be wrong.

You are 100% correct on that one.

 

Still science like nature finds a way. lets look to the future generations, reincarnation is what i want..To be there on that day when humans settle on a breathable eco system earth like planet. Hubble has discoverer 1000s of earth  like planets too.  Not to far or close to their parent star/sun to allow water and life as we know it to exist..

 

 

Take this Martian..  Feck off humans ..LOL

 

 

Edited April 27, 2021 by maroonlegions

[kila]

11 minutes ago, maroonlegions said:

Yes but science evolves.

 

What science knows today might not be the be and end all ...

 

NASA and some of its scientists are of the opinion that one day the teck will be there.  

 

Sounds like you didn't watch the video. You should because the headline is actually meaning the beings that eventually colonise Mars won't be human as we'll likely have modified our DNA to cope with lower gravity etc.

[maroonlegions]

4 minutes ago, kila said:

 

Sounds like you didn't watch the video. You should because the headline is actually meaning the beings that eventually colonise Mars won't be human as we'll likely have modified our DNA to cope with lower gravity etc.

Sounds like you did not understand what i was saying..  

 

I said that some day  NASA scientists believe that the TECK will be there. Be that future human DNA hybrids or not. 

 

 

Wont be HUMAN, thats a bold statement even for scientists to say...

 

So evolution is ongoing, hybrid alien /human DNA manipulation , Darwin's theory of evolution ???   

[Governor Tarkin]

27 minutes ago, maroonlegions said:

Yes but science evolves.

 

What science knows today might not be the be and end all ...

 

NASA and some of its scientists are of the opinion that one day the teck will be there.  

 

I wonder if humanity will ever evolve the technology to decipher your posts? 🤔

[Jeffros Furios]

19 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

I wonder if humanity will ever evolve the technology to decipher your posts? 🤔

No

[Maple Leaf]

1 hour ago, kila said:

 

 You should because the headline is actually meaning the beings that eventually colonise Mars won't be human as we'll likely have modified our DNA to cope with lower gravity etc.

 

Lower gravity, extremely thin atmosphere, no oxygen, frigid temperatures, etc.  It sounds all a bit too sci-fi for me.  To do what is suggested would need to be done by artificial selection, and the notion of humans creating a new species of humanoids would raise some very difficult moral and ethical questions. 

[Cade]

Mars can't be properly terraformed, there's no way of retaining the atmosphere.

It can be colonised with domes.

MOXIE shows that pure oxygen for fuel production and breathable o2 can be produced from the Martian air.

We know there's shiteloads of water on Mars.

Growth medium for food remains the only real major stumbling block.

But even then with all that water we could cultivate algae.

[Maple Leaf]

14 minutes ago, Cade said:

Mars can't be properly terraformed, there's no way of retaining the atmosphere.

It can be colonised with domes.

MOXIE shows that pure oxygen for fuel production and breathable o2 can be produced from the Martian air.

We know there's shiteloads of water on Mars.

Growth medium for food remains the only real major stumbling block.

But even then with all that water we could cultivate algae.

 

Yes, but all that sounds like an enormous enterprise with an *ahem* astronomical cost.  Who's going to pay for it?  And the question has to be asked, "Why?"  There needs to be a better answer than "Because it's there."  Whatever the cost, maybe the money would be better spent on fixing up the planet we're already occupying.

[Cade]

Cost of space flight is coming down and down all the time as technology improves.

This is how private companies like SpaceX are now industry leaders instead of only Governments being able to use general taxation to pay for space exploration.

Many private firms are profit-making by launching commercial satellites into low Earth orbit.

 

As with any cutting edge technology, practical applications for every day use are found and adapted and society as a whole benefits.
Certain resources on Earth are finite and although technology advances mean we're slowing down our consumption of them, we are still consuming them and they cannot be replaced.

We have to source them from somewhere, or develop different technologies to replace them.

Astronomers have already identified several asteroids that could theoretically be mined for resources, and the estimated profits run into the trillions.

We've already landed several probes on asteroids and some have even taken samples from them and are currently on their way back to Earth.

 

If (and more likely when) SpaceX get Starship fully operational, they're already looking at point to point rocket ravel around the world. Go anywhere in less than three hours on a fully reusable travel system.

 

[Maple Leaf]

1 hour ago, Cade said:

Cost of space flight is coming down and down all the time as technology improves.

This is how private companies like SpaceX are now industry leaders instead of only Governments being able to use general taxation to pay for space exploration.

Many private firms are profit-making by launching commercial satellites into low Earth orbit.

 

As with any cutting edge technology, practical applications for every day use are found and adapted and society as a whole benefits.
Certain resources on Earth are finite and although technology advances mean we're slowing down our consumption of them, we are still consuming them and they cannot be replaced.

We have to source them from somewhere, or develop different technologies to replace them.

Astronomers have already identified several asteroids that could theoretically be mined for resources, and the estimated profits run into the trillions.

We've already landed several probes on asteroids and some have even taken samples from them and are currently on their way back to Earth.

 

If (and more likely when) SpaceX get Starship fully operational, they're already looking at point to point rocket ravel around the world. Go anywhere in less than three hours on a fully reusable travel system.

 

 

Exciting prospects, to be sure.

 

I just hope that humans will be around long enough to turn those ideas into reality.  But there's a real possibility that, in a few decades, we'll all be suffocating from lack of oxygen because we've destroyed the plant life in the oceans.

 

And, yes, I'm a real conversation killer at cocktail parties! 

[Cade]

Cultivating algae on an industrial scale on Earth solves several different problems at once:
It produces food.

It produces oxygen.

It's a giant carbon sponge.

You can even convert it to biofuels (for running power plants).

 

Get rid of the salmon farms, lean heavily into giant algae farms.

 

[kila]

21 hours ago, Maple Leaf said:

Yes, but all that sounds like an enormous enterprise with an *ahem* astronomical cost.  Who's going to pay for it?  And the question has to be asked, "Why?"  There needs to be a better answer than "Because it's there."  Whatever the cost, maybe the money would be better spent on fixing up the planet we're already occupying.

 

There is no shortage of money from really rich folk like Musk and Bezos to fund their space ventures and it'll continue when they're gone. The why might be because it'll be a better place than Earth many years in the future if we sail past the point of return with climate change or someone fires a few nukes.

 

But then I suppose firing nukes into space to destroy undesirable Mars colonies is probably likely too. Either way I think humans will continue exploring space and discover habitable worlds that some will set sail to many years in the future, perhaps taking two generations to get there.

[JFK-1]

If it had to be one or the other I would be throwing money at a permanent moon base not Mars. It's within a day or so travel time and offers significant science benefits. Easy access to a perfect vacuum and low gravity both of which apparently enables the research and production of purer drugs and metals.

I was also thinking it would be considerably easier in the lower gravity to launch very large payloads towards the likes of Mars or beyond from the moon. And of course once it breaks down into fighting over which bit of space dirt is mine and which yours we can all see the worlds first moon battle.

 

Edited April 28, 2021 by JFK-1

[JFK-1]

Just now, JFK-1 said:

 Misclick

 

Edited April 28, 2021 by JFK-1

[Cade]

Aye you go moon base first then use the moon as a launchpad to other places. 

Much easier to get enough delta-v from the moon than from Earth.

 

China launched the first section of their new Space Station last night. 

And yon wee helicopter drone on Mars is flying further and further afield every day.

SpaceX's SN15 has performed two static fire engine tests and should be going for a 10km ascent and landing attempt by the end of the week.

Exciting times.

[JFK-1]

3 hours ago, Cade said:

Aye you go moon base first then use the moon as a launchpad to other places. 

Much easier to get enough delta-v from the moon than from Earth.

 

China launched the first section of their new Space Station last night. 

And yon wee helicopter drone on Mars is flying further and further afield every day.

SpaceX's SN15 has performed two static fire engine tests and should be going for a 10km ascent and landing attempt by the end of the week.

Exciting times.

 

I'm not particularly well versed in the science of rocket launches. But I was thinking about the bulk of the fuel on a launch from earth being consumed simply to get it off the ground. Then the slog up through the atmosphere just to reach orbital velocity far less escape velocity.
 

Wondering what sort of speeds could be achieved using the same amount of fuel but launching say a probe from one sixth the gravity and zero atmosphere to fight through. Also weather would never be a factor that could interfere with launches.

[Cade]

5 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

 

I'm not particularly well versed in the science of rocket launches. But I was thinking about the bulk of the fuel on a launch from earth being consumed simply to get it off the ground. Then the slog up through the atmosphere just to reach orbital velocity far less escape velocity.
 

Wondering what sort of speeds could be achieved using the same amount of fuel but launching say a probe from one sixth the gravity and zero atmosphere to fight through. Also weather would never be a factor that could interfere with launches.

That is pretty much right, it takes a ton of power (and fuel) to break Earth's atmosphere.

A rocket with enough fuel on board to go from Earth to Mars in one go would have to be huge, just to carry enough fuel.

If using the Moon as a staging point, rockets can re-fuel there then power onwards to Mars. 

 

It's not so much the speeds you can reach but the changes in your speed that have to be done with thrusters or main engine burns.

That's what "delta-v" refers to; how much change in speed does your fuel let you do?

 

 

[Unknown user]

[Cade]

SN15 sticks the landing!

 

 

*so far, still time for it to blow up

[Ulysses]

3 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

 

I am ok with the potential self obliteration of human beings, I will be long gone (probably) by that moment. We are having a bloody splendid run at it all. 

 

 

We're just a temporary phenomenon.  However long it takes, humans will either evolve into something else or do themselves out of existence - or maybe split as a species and do both. 

[Ulysses]

From the universe to the surface of the planet - an article about how our cities will eventually be eroded, reshaped and fossilised, written by David Farrier, professor of literature and the environment at the University of Edinburgh.

 

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20210505-how-cities-will-fossilise

[Maple Leaf]

3 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

 

 

I am ok with the potential self obliteration of human beings, I will be long gone (probably) by that moment. We are having a bloody splendid run at it all. 

 

And I think if we do stink up the place to the point where we exit, there will still be life on Earth after us. 

 

Life has existed on earth for about 3 billion years.  I have no doubt that life will still exist on earth when the planet is swallowed up by the expanding sun in about 5 billion years from now.

 

But humans will be long gone by then, really long gone.  We, homo sapiens, have only been around for about 200,000 years.  It's hard to imagine that we'll still be here in another 200,000 years, the way we're screwing things up. 

[Cade]

Been a busy, successful and very profitable week for SpaceX.

 

Two Starlink launches increasing their global internet coverage, delivered 4 new crew to the International Space Station, brought some ISS crew back home in the first night-time splashdown since the Apollo days, SN15 test launch went well.

 

[maroonlegions]

On 27/04/2021 at 19:33, Governor Tarkin said:

 

I wonder if humanity will ever evolve the technology to decipher your posts? 🤔

Instead of the trolling posts and personal insults why dont you for once show why you said that, or are you just full of hot air, Not the first time you have responded to a post of  mine with nothing more than a wee girly tantrum.

 

If my opinions upset you so much sweetheart then dont read um..  

 

 

If NASA are saying one day in the FUTURE , then its good enough for me. 

[Governor Tarkin]

13 minutes ago, maroonlegions said:

Instead of the trolling posts and personal insults why dont you for once show why you said that, or are you just full of hot air, Not the first time you have responded to a post of  mine with nothing more than a wee girly tantrum.

 

If my opinions upset you so much sweetheart then dont read um..  

 

 

If NASA are saying one day in the FUTURE , then its good enough for me. 

 

Got any memes to prove it?

[Unknown user]

13 minutes ago, maroonlegions said:

Instead of the trolling posts and personal insults why dont you for once show why you said that, or are you just full of hot air, Not the first time you have responded to a post of  mine with nothing more than a wee girly tantrum.

 

If my opinions upset you so much sweetheart then dont read um..  

 

 

If NASA are saying one day in the FUTURE , then its good enough for me. 

Yeah but you don't apply a lot of critical thinking to the subject to be fair

[Unknown user]

Just now, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Got any memes to prove it?

 

 

[maroonlegions]

5 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Yeah but you don't apply a lot of critical thinking to the subject to be fair

What you think i am some kind of scientist..  

 

Did i ever once claim to be a fecking Astronomer..  

 

Critical thinking ...Its called opinions based on NASA articles  but you knew that.. 

 

You are taking utter shite mate. 

 

The boy is a utter troll...

 

 

[maroonlegions]

10 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Got any memes to prove it?

And there you go,  avoiding my question and yet again dragging it down to a personal level..got any of my posts that need deciphering, as you put it, to PROVE your point??

 

Seems thats your game on other threads to, you just show up, through personal insults. What age are you... ???

 

 

Here a picture..

 

Its Jupiter in Infrared...

 

 Recently, astronomers at the Gemini North Observatory in Hawaii, USA, created some of the best infrared photos of Jupiter ever taken from Earth’s surface. The night was perfect . Gemini was able to produce such a clear image using a technique called lucky imaging, by taking many images and combining only the clearest ones that, by chance, were taken when Earth's atmosphere was the most calm.

 

You got any "critical thinking " on this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[maroonlegions]

16 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Yeah but you don't apply a lot of critical thinking to the subject to be fair

You have lost the argument mate, with petty , immature shite but you knew that eh..  

[Governor Tarkin]

22 minutes ago, maroonlegions said:

And there you go,  avoiding my question and yet again dragging it down to a personal level..got any of my posts that need deciphering, as you put it, to PROVE your point??

 

Seems thats your game on other threads to, you just show up, through personal insults. What age are you... ???

 

 

Here a picture..

 

Its Jupiter in Infrared...

 

 Recently, astronomers at the Gemini North Observatory in Hawaii, USA, created some of the best infrared photos of Jupiter ever taken from Earth’s surface. The night was perfect . Gemini was able to produce such a clear image using a technique called lucky imaging, by taking many images and combining only the clearest ones that, by chance, were taken when Earth's atmosphere was the most calm.

 

You got any "critical thinking " on this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've thought about it critically, and concluded that it's shite.

 

It's difficult to believe that the finest minds at NASA have spent all that money on futuristic tech and are passing off an image of a stray dug's ring the day after scavenging a discarded kebab as Jupiter in the infra-red.

 

I get a better view from the front lawn with my old dobsonian.

 

Anything else you'd like me to think critically about?

[Unknown user]

42 minutes ago, maroonlegions said:

What you think i am some kind of scientist..  

 

Did i ever once claim to be a fecking Astronomer..  

 

Critical thinking ...Its called opinions based on NASA articles  but you knew that.. 

 

You are taking utter shite mate. 

 

The boy is a utter troll...

 

 

I didn't say anything about him, I just said that you don't apply a lot of critical thinking to the subject, so when you say "that's good enough for me" it doesn't exactly carry loads of weight

[Jeffros Furios]

1 hour ago, maroonlegions said:

Instead of the trolling posts and personal insults why dont you for once show why you said that, or are you just full of hot air, Not the first time you have responded to a post of  mine with nothing more than a wee girly tantrum.

 

If my opinions upset you so much sweetheart then dont read um..  

 

 

If NASA are saying one day in the FUTURE , then its good enough for me. 

[Unknown user]

4 hours ago, maroonlegions said:

You have lost the argument mate, with petty , immature shite but you knew that eh..  

I didn't realise you were so enraged you angrily replied to my post twice!

 

Can I recommend masturbation?

[Governor Tarkin]

16 hours ago, Jeffros Furios said:

 

Shut it, ya one-eyed gimp. 😡

[hughesie27]

19 hours ago, maroonlegions said:

And there you go,  avoiding my question and yet again dragging it down to a personal level..got any of my posts that need deciphering, as you put it, to PROVE your point??

 

Seems thats your game on other threads to, you just show up, through personal insults. What age are you... ???

 

 

Here a picture..

 

Its Jupiter in Infrared...

 

 Recently, astronomers at the Gemini North Observatory in Hawaii, USA, created some of the best infrared photos of Jupiter ever taken from Earth’s surface. The night was perfect . Gemini was able to produce such a clear image using a technique called lucky imaging, by taking many images and combining only the clearest ones that, by chance, were taken when Earth's atmosphere was the most calm.

 

You got any "critical thinking " on this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Doesn't look anything like Jupiter.

[Maple Leaf]

1 hour ago, hughesie27 said:

Doesn't look anything like Jupiter.

 

I haven't seen Jupiter in infrared before, so I wouldn't know how to judge.

 

But I can see the bands and I can see what I assume to be is the Big Red Spot, so there are definite similarities.

[maroonlegions]

On 06/05/2021 at 22:09, Smithee said:

I didn't realise you were so enraged you angrily replied to my post twice!

 

Can I recommend masturbation?

weirdo...

 

[maroonlegions]

Things like this always  intrigued  me. Even more so when it appears, and has been accepted , in the  well respected and well credible The Astronomical Journal.  

Check out the team's paper, published in The Astronomical Journal.

    

 

 

First Detection of Orbital Motion for HD 106906 b: A Wide-separation Exoplanet on a Planet Nine–like Orbit

Meiji M. Nguyen¹, Robert J. De Rosa², and Paul Kalas^1,3,4

Published 2020 December 10 • © 2020. The American Astronomical Society. All rights reserved.
The Astronomical Journal, Volume 161, Number 1Citation Meiji M. Nguyen et al 2021 AJ 161 22

 

 

 

 

 

Author affiliations

¹ Department of Astronomy, University of California, Berkeley, CA 94720, USA; [email protected]

² European Southern Observatory, Alonso de Córdova 3107, Vitacura, Santiago, Chile

³ SETI Institute, Carl Sagan Center, 189 Bernardo Avenue, Mountain View, CA 94043, USA

⁴ Institute of Astrophysics, FORTH, GR-71110 Heraklion, Greece

ORCID iDs

Meiji M. Nguyen https://orcid.org/0000-0002-9350-4763

Robert J. De Rosa https://orcid.org/0000-0002-4918-0247

Paul Kalas https://orcid.org/0000-0002-6221-5360

 

 

  

[Governor Tarkin]

^^^^ Fake news. 

[maroonlegions]

On 06/05/2021 at 17:53, Smithee said:

I didn't say anything about him, I just said that you don't apply a lot of critical thinking to the subject, so when you say "that's good enough for me" it doesn't exactly carry loads of weight

Aye if NASAs on the case then its good enough for me..  

 

What else did you expect a 2 hour long dissipation peer reviewed paper.. I post the link, its all there and all the critical thinking you want..

 

Feck sake are we not allowed to post a link with  add some comments..   

[maroonlegions]

6 hours ago, Governor Tarkin said:

^^^^ Fake news. 

Prove it. 

 

In case you are storytelling.. And just plain trolling..  Feck knows how you get away with it... Sad, feck all else do..

 

Meiji M. Nguyen¹, Robert J. De Rosa², and Paul Kalas^1,3,4

Published 2020 December 10 • © 2020. The American Astronomical Society. All rights reserved.
The Astronomical Journal, Volume 161, Number 1Citation Meiji M. Nguyen et al 2021 AJ 161 22

 

 

[maroonlegions]

For any one interested , here is a NASA based citizen project, run by NASAs Planet 9 team..

 

 

 

 

Calling all citizen scientists! Join us for the first ever CitSciCon on May 21-22, 2021. This free series of open-door, online events, hosted by the Citizen Science Association and SciStarter, celebrates NASA’s nearly two dozen citizen science projects, scientists, and citizen scientists (you!).

 

Dear Backyard Worlds Team,

CitSciCon, the free, public event to celebrate NASA citizen science projects and people is happening on May 21-22. Details and registration links are coming soon - for now, imagine all the fun of Comic-Con, only with fewer costumes and a more sciency, save-the-planet, get-everyone-doing-science kind of vibe. We hope you join us for some or all of the events - we want to celebrate you and the great work you're doing on Backyard Worlds: Planet 9!