Astronomy / The Universe

[kila]

19 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

Here's a question for brighter minds than mine, which is most! 

 

One often hears comments like "x million years after the Big Bang."  As we all know, a year to us earthlings is the length of time it takes for our planet to do a complete orbit of the sun.  But the sun and earth weren't formed until about 6 billion years after the Big Bang, so what was a "year" prior to that? 

 

Time is relative

 

[Maple Leaf]

26 minutes ago, kila said:

 

Time is relative

 

 

Which reminds me of some of my relatives; when they're around, time seems to stand still!

[Greedy Jambo]

3 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

Which reminds me of some of my relatives; when they're around, time seems to stand still!

 

I've got an auntie that apparently doesn't care much for time, always late to family gathering, ALWAYS. 

 

[Justin Z]

1 hour ago, Maple Leaf said:

Here's a question for brighter minds than mine, which is most! 

 

One often hears comments like "x million years after the Big Bang."  As we all know, a year to us earthlings is the length of time it takes for our planet to do a complete orbit of the sun.  But the sun and earth weren't formed until about 6 billion years after the Big Bang, so what was a "year" prior to that? 

 

They're still just measuring the arbitrary amount of time we call a “year” even though it didn't exist yet.

[Maple Leaf]

6 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

They're still just measuring the arbitrary amount of time we call a “year” even though it didn't exist yet.

 

Interesting.  It seems that apart from our 'day', one complete turn of the earth on its axis, and our 'year', one earth orbit of the sun, everything else is arbitrary.  Seconds, weeks, months are all arbitrary.

 

Which also means that time didn't exist before the earth and the sun were formed. 

[Justin Z]

1 minute ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

Interesting.  It seems that apart from our 'day', one complete turn of the earth on its axis, and our 'year', one earth orbit of the sun, everything else is arbitrary.  Seconds, weeks, months are all arbitrary.

 

Which also means that time didn't exist before the earth and the sun were formed. 

 

Really, it's all arbitrary, just to differing degrees. Plus there are various types of years—sidereal and tropical for example, which are a measure of Earth completing a full revolution on its orbit versus the appearance of the sun completing a full 360° cycle along the ecliptic as viewed from Earth, respectively, and which differ by about 20 minutes in length Plus, the way we might measure a year (by about 365.25 days) has changed over geologic time since our day length used to be much shorter and is steadily continuing to slow thanks to tidal forces from the moon.

 

Meanwhile we define a second very precisely: The amount of time it takes a caesium atom to vibrate 9,192,631,770 times, something which doesn't change.

[hughesie27]

Clearer skies now but assume we are too late as they appear to be below the horizon.

[Tommy Brown]

3 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

Clearer skies now but assume we are too late as they appear to be below the horizon.

Same here. Can't see anything, not clear enough.

[Cade]

Taken yesterday.
Credit: Real Edinburgh

[Maple Leaf]

54 minutes ago, Cade said:

Taken yesterday.
Credit: Real Edinburgh

 That's a nice shot of Saturn.  You can't always see the rings, but they're clear in that picture.

[Tommy Brown]

57 minutes ago, Cade said:

Taken yesterday.
Credit: Real Edinburgh

Impressed (admittedly on after MLs comments). I then zoomed in.

 

What did you use take that?

[Greedy Jambo]

Going for a wee peep out the window now, wait for it guys, this could be good. 

[Greedy Jambo]

Nut. 

Craig Wighton material out there, you get your hopes up.. 

[Boof]

2 hours ago, Tommy Brown said:

Same here. Can't see anything, not clear enough.

 

Faint aurora here but a bit too much moon  

[Greedy Jambo]

I can see 3 bright stars in the sky, but they're just wee normal pishy ones. 

[Greedy Jambo]

Oh hold on, there's a fourth one, this is starting to look like a Neilson defence, just need one more. 

[Cade]

1 hour ago, Tommy Brown said:

Impressed (admittedly on after MLs comments). I then zoomed in.

 

What did you use take that?

It's from a facebook page, I didn't take it but I'll paste what the guy used:

 

""About as good as it can get in a single shot I reckon. Usually to image a planet you'd take a video with a special camera at huge magnification, extract the best frames, layer them, apply some black magic and out pops a planet image out the other side.
This though was a single shot taken in a much lighter sky. The problem here is that Jupiter is much brighter than Saturn, get it right for one the other will be bollocks so this is a happy medium. Saturn is identifiable and there's some very faint banding on Jupiter, it won't get much better.
This was taken with a Nikon D850, the 48mp monster fitted with a 150-600mm lens AND a 2x teleconverter, so 1200mm, telescope type range. Huddled in behind the car boot lid to try and get out the wind the image is underexposed to pull out the details, if I had exposed for the blue sky then you'd get 2 white blobs.""
 

[Governor Tarkin]

11 hours ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

Interesting.  It seems that apart from our 'day', one complete turn of the earth on its axis, and our 'year', one earth orbit of the sun, everything else is arbitrary.  Seconds, weeks, months are all arbitrary.

 

Which also means that time didn't exist before the earth and the sun were formed. 

 

Time existed, and the divisions of time that we've invented also existed in some abstract sense, there was just nobody around to put labels on any of it.

[Governor Tarkin]

10 hours ago, Cade said:

Taken yesterday.
Credit: Real Edinburgh

 

That's how they appear to me through my wee £100 telescope, although admittedly not last night.

The Galilean moons are missing though. I usually see them strung out at an angle across the Jovian equator.

One day I'll invest in a decent bit of kit that I can capture images through.

[redjambo]

14 hours ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

Interesting.  It seems that apart from our 'day', one complete turn of the earth on its axis, and our 'year', one earth orbit of the sun, everything else is arbitrary.  Seconds, weeks, months are all arbitrary.

 

Which also means that time didn't exist before the earth and the sun were formed. 

 

Time as we humans measure it is not only derived from astronomical phenomena. The second, for example, is defined in the SI units system as a factor of the unperturbed ground-state hyperfine transition frequency of the caesium-133 atom. So, you can now say that time didn't exist before the first atom of caesium-133 was formed.

 

Edit: I now see that Justin got in before me.

Edited December 22, 2020 by redjambo

[redjambo]

13 hours ago, Justin Z said:

 

Really, it's all arbitrary, just to differing degrees. Plus there are various types of years—sidereal and tropical for example, which are a measure of Earth completing a full revolution on its orbit versus the appearance of the sun completing a full 360° cycle along the ecliptic as viewed from Earth, respectively, and which differ by about 20 minutes in length Plus, the way we might measure a year (by about 365.25 days) has changed over geologic time since our day length used to be much shorter and is steadily continuing to slow thanks to tidal forces from the moon.

 

Meanwhile we define a second very precisely: The amount of time it takes a caesium atom to vibrate 9,192,631,770 times, something which doesn't change.

 

Which must be why, I am interested to have just learned, the second was in 1956 officially defined as "the fraction 1/31 556 925.9747 of the tropical year for 1900 January 0 at 12 hours ephemeris time."

[inspector]

Skies were cloudy to the south of us last night but looking over the Sutherland hills to the north, there was an aurora.

[Harry Potter]

11 hours ago, Greedy Jambo said:

Oh hold on, there's a fourth one, this is starting to look like a Neilson defence, just need one more. 

Ha Ha

[Justin Z]

54 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Which must be why, I am interested to have just learned, the second was in 1956 officially defined as "the fraction 1/31 556 925.9747 of the tropical year for 1900 January 0 at 12 hours ephemeris time."

 

Very cool! And speaking of arbitrary

[Cade]

Aye but due to the increasing mass of the Earth and the decreasing mass of the Sun, both the rotation and orbit of Earth is slowly changing, so we'll have to come up with new ways of measuring time.

[Maple Leaf]

3 hours ago, redjambo said:

 

Which must be why, I am interested to have just learned, the second was in 1956 officially defined as "the fraction 1/31 556 925.9747 of the tropical year for 1900 January 0 at 12 hours ephemeris time."

 

It's too bad that Christmas gatherings have been forbidden this year as that would have been a wonderful nugget to drop on people: "Hey folks, just in case you were daft enough to believe that a second was arbitrary, I'm happy to tell you that ... "

 

That would be a conversation stopper and would likely mean there would be no invitation next year. 

[redjambo]

8 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

It's too bad that Christmas gatherings have been forbidden this year as that would have been a wonderful nugget to drop on people: "Hey folks, just in case you were daft enough to believe that a second was arbitrary, I'm happy to tell you that ... "

 

That would be a conversation stopper and would likely mean there would be no invitation next year. 

 

[Don Dan]

 

 

 

 

photo taken with my iPhone from my patio in Tenerife. Looks good through my binoculars as well.

[Don Dan]

 

 

the original photo 

[SectionDJambo]

20 hours ago, Maple Leaf said:

 That's a nice shot of Saturn.  You can't always see the rings, but they're clear in that picture.

I used to go along to an Astronomy club at school, many moons ago. Our teacher had really good, powerful telescope. I saw Saturn and Jupiter through it, and could clearly see the rings on Saturn and the red spot on Jupiter. They were great to see in such clarity.

The night sky can be a wonderful thing to look at, but there's so much light pollution now, it's difficult to see everything. I can't remember the last time I saw the Milky Way, even though you could always see it back then. I still know how to pick out the Pole Star though, so I'll not get lost at sea as long as it's not cloudy.

[hughesie27]

Managed to capture this with my phone tonight. Zoomed in obviously. 

[John Gentleman]

On 22/12/2020 at 07:20, Maple Leaf said:

 

Interesting.  It seems that apart from our 'day', one complete turn of the earth on its axis, and our 'year', one earth orbit of the sun, everything else is arbitrary.  Seconds, weeks, months are all arbitrary.

 

Which also means that time didn't exist before the earth and the sun were formed. 

The clock started ticking at the instant of the Big Bang, it's just that we weren't around to measure it. What we can do, though, is 'wind the cosmic clock' back to that very instant ~13.8 billion years ago. If 'something' (and therefore 'time') existed before that, then we've got our physics all wrong.

[John Gentleman]

6 hours ago, SectionDJambo said:

I used to go along to an Astronomy club at school, many moons ago. Our teacher had really good, powerful telescope. I saw Saturn and Jupiter through it, and could clearly see the rings on Saturn and the red spot on Jupiter. They were great to see in such clarity.

The night sky can be a wonderful thing to look at, but there's so much light pollution now, it's difficult to see everything. I can't remember the last time I saw the Milky Way, even though you could always see it back then. I still know how to pick out the Pole Star though, so I'll not get lost at sea as long as it's not cloudy.

That's the wonderful thing about living in South Australia. A one hour drive north of Adelaide and light pollution is non-existent. The galaxy in all its resplendent glory is the only source of light. Exhilarating and humbling, in equal measure.

[Tommy Brown]

6 hours ago, hughesie27 said:

Managed to capture this with my phone tonight. Zoomed in obviously. 

That imo is bloody incredible.

Well done.

[Governor Tarkin]

8 hours ago, hughesie27 said:

Managed to capture this with my phone tonight. Zoomed in obviously. 

 

That's a belter. What kind of ****ing phone have you got!

[SectionDJambo]

7 hours ago, John Gentleman said:

That's the wonderful thing about living in South Australia. A one hour drive north of Adelaide and light pollution is non-existent. The galaxy in all its resplendent glory is the only source of light. Exhilarating and humbling, in equal measure.

Must be great. 

When I've been in Singapore, visiting my son, I've seen a crescent moon in a smiley position. I can't recall seeing that anywhere else.

[SectionDJambo]

11 hours ago, hughesie27 said:

Managed to capture this with my phone tonight. Zoomed in obviously. 

That is a fantastic photo.

It must take a fair bit of patience and imagination to capture a shot like that.

Well done and thanks for sharing it.

[hughesie27]

5 hours ago, Tommy Brown said:

That imo is bloody incredible.

Well done.

 

3 hours ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

That's a belter. What kind of ****ing phone have you got!

 

Just now, SectionDJambo said:

That is a fantastic photo.

It must take a fair bit of patience and imagination to capture a shot like that.

Well done and thanks for sharing it.

🤣

 

Sorry guys. Chored it off Twitter. Someone took it with their telescope in Melbourne.

[SectionDJambo]

1 minute ago, hughesie27 said:

 

 

🤣

 

Sorry guys. Chored it off Twitter. Someone took it with their telescope in Melbourne.

Wrong time of year to go onto the naughty list. 

[Governor Tarkin]

8 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

 

 

🤣

 

Sorry guys. Chored it off Twitter. Someone took it with their telescope in Melbourne.

 

I knew you were ****ing at it.

 

You can get a view like that with even a cheap telescope though. The Mrs bought me one for around 100 quid and I was amazed at what I could see.

The pain in the arse is that you have to keep moving it manually and re-focusing as it doesn't have any fancy electronics.

Always fancied a better one but doubt the amount of opportunity I'd have to actually use it would justify the expense.

Maybe when the wee men are older I'll get one and try and give them the bug.

 

[Seymour M Hersh]

1 hour ago, SectionDJambo said:

Wrong time of year to go onto the naughty list. 

 

 

[SectionDJambo]

1 minute ago, Maple Leaf said:

Stunning!!!  That's a keeper.

Careful pal. He drew a few of us in with this one. 🤔

[Maple Leaf]

Just now, SectionDJambo said:

Careful pal. He drew a few of us in with this one. 🤔

 

I just realised that as I read further down the thread.  Post now deleted.

 

 

[hughesie27]

🤣

[kila]

3 hours ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

I knew you were ****ing at it.

 

You can get a view like that with even a cheap telescope though. The Mrs bought me one for around 100 quid and I was amazed at what I could see.

The pain in the arse is that you have to keep moving it manually and re-focusing as it doesn't have any fancy electronics.

Always fancied a better one but doubt the amount of opportunity I'd have to actually use it would justify the expense.

Maybe when the wee men are older I'll get one and try and give them the bug.

 

 

Since you got more into peering through your telescope, has it impacted you spiritually?

 

I find it sad that there is this amazing wonder above us yet so many of us are focused on staring downwards (usually at a phone). The night sky is something our distant ancestors saw, and is a constant that connects us through time, but modern city life with light pollution takes it away from us. The darkest I've ever seen it is up the Blue Mountains and the sky just took my breath away. How many inner city kids have ever had that feeling?

 

 

[Governor Tarkin]

12 minutes ago, kila said:

 

Since you got more into peering through your telescope, has it impacted you spiritually?

 

I find it sad that there is this amazing wonder above us yet so many of us are focused on staring downwards (usually at a phone). The night sky is something our distant ancestors saw, and is a constant that connects us through time, but modern city life with light pollution takes it away from us. The darkest I've ever seen it is up the Blue Mountains and the sky just took my breath away. How many inner city kids have ever had that feeling?

 

 

 

It was a cold, still night in NZ on a remote stretch of the Bay of Plenty for me.

I'd stepped outside my camper van for a pish and just about fell over when my eyes began to adjust to the night. I thought I'd seen the sky before but it just blew me away.

 

I'm lucky enough to work at sea so get to see the clear night sky fairly regularly. It's the most welcome perk of the job.

I've always had one eye on the horizon anyway so I don't think it has made me any more or less spiritual, although I'd certainly equate the sensation of awe with a religious experience.

It leaves me feeling very small, and very fortunate. 👍

[redjambo]

9 hours ago, hughesie27 said:

 

 

🤣

 

Sorry guys. Chored it off Twitter. Someone took it with their telescope in Melbourne.

 

I was thinking "No bloody way he took that with his phone!".

[maroonlegions]

"The Big Bang was not the beginning."

 

 

BIGTHINK.COM

The universe keeps dying and being reborn, claims Nobel Prize winner

 

[maroonlegions]

Fecking love it.

 

 We are in the age of discovery and technological advancements.  

 

Game changer???

 

 

Get ready for the most detailed night-sky pictures ever taken from terra firma.

 

 

BIGTHINK.COM

A 3,200-megapixel space camera is about to go online

 

[maroonlegions]

Stunning image captured by NASAs  deep space  telescope Hubble ;

 

 

Arp 273 | Colliding galaxies and cosmic dances. Credit: NASA/ESA/Hubble

Processing : Bogdan Borz 2020