Space Mackerel Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Its no wonder though. The economic case is what lost the referendum. It was a shambles. The trouble is that the case for prosperity will not sit well for a lot of yes voters. Imo. The economic case has been won, hands down. What we are arguing about is people's own self identity now and how they perceive themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Regards the sums you stated that spending levels were 4 or 5 times the amount spent in england per head. 9% more is more accurate. There is a liberal right wing economic case for Scottish independence. Its politically difficult in Scotland to get support for this. Also there is new thoughts on economics . Capitalism is the world we live and you should only spend what you can afford. I think Scotlands well placed to prosper for many reasons. Scotland share of the defecit is c14.8bn (5m people), the total defecit for the is c75bn .. so ?50bn ( 60m people) Now clearly this has not always been the case.. but it is the case now and that's all that matters. you correctly recognise that we should only spend what we can afford, that contradicts the SNP case for independence on so many levels it's not true. If there's an economic case for independence I've yet to hear it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 The economic case has been won, hands down. What we are arguing about is people's own self identity now and how they perceive themselves. Sorry makeral that is just not true. The economic argument can be won but it isnt because the wrong arguments are being put forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Sorry makeral that is just not true. The economic argument can be won but it isnt because the wrong arguments are being put forward. One day you'll realise the accounts of a business, company or a nation don't start from 3 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 The economic case has been won, hands down. What we are arguing about is people's own self identity now and how they perceive themselves. Are you actually smoking crack.. the case was not made and it was certainly not won. Despite all the posts on here not once have you managed to challenge the fact the independent Scotland will face tax hikes and spending cuts, you have not been able to explain how we'd finance ourselves if this were not the case and you've not made a single arguement about how the economy could be grown to establish a sustainable economy.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 One day you'll realise the accounts of a business, company or a nation don't start from 3 years ago. Irrelevant, you can't base future decisions based on a sense of injustice from the past.. if that's your argument you'll never win it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 One day you'll realise the accounts of a business, company or a nation don't start from 3 years ago. See thats the kind of stupid answer that puts me of trying to be an adult with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Scotland share of the defecit is c14.8bn (5m people), the total defecit for the is c75bn .. so ?50bn ( 60m people) Now clearly this has not always been the case.. but it is the case now and that's all that matters. you correctly recognise that we should only spend what we can afford, that contradicts the SNP case for independence on so many levels it's not true. If there's an economic case for independence I've yet to hear it. Backtracking on 3 years accounts under Westminster economic policy? And you said you went to university? What did you study old bean? It wasn't economics, I'll bet you a ?1000 it wasn't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Irrelevant, you can't base future decisions based on a sense of injustice from the past.. if that's your argument you'll never win it Irrelevant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 See thats the kind of stupid answer that puts me of trying to be an adult with you. "Trying to be an adult" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trapper John McIntyre Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Are you actually smoking crack.. the case was not made and it was certainly not won. Despite all the posts on here not once have you managed to challenge the fact the independent Scotland will face tax hikes and spending cuts, you have not been able to explain how we'd finance ourselves if this were not the case and you've not made a single arguement about how the economy could be grown to establish a sustainable economy.. He's not John Maynard Keynes. He flips burgers for a living. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Kingantti. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-28869991 There is another article i read that outlines an economic model.Cant find it. Its also worth saying that natural resources include many not so obvious wealth creation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 "Trying to be an adult" Ooops . Fekin spacey ye nip ma heid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Are you actually smoking crack.. the case was not made and it was certainly not won. Despite all the posts on here not once have you managed to challenge the fact the independent Scotland will face tax hikes and spending cuts, you have not been able to explain how we'd finance ourselves if this were not the case and you've not made a single arguement about how the economy could be grown to establish a sustainable economy.. http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/why-an-independent-scotland-could-become-the-richest-country-on-earth-9096120.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Ooops . Fekin spacey ye nip ma heid Cheap shot [emoji12] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Backtracking on 3 years accounts under Westminster economic policy? And you said you went to university? What did you study old bean? It wasn't economics, I'll bet you a ?1000 it wasn't? Civil Engineering 1st class hns from Strathclyde then studied for CA whilst working for KPMG. What did you study ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/why-an-independent-scotland-could-become-the-richest-country-on-earth-9096120.html so now we are basing the decision of a lifetime on an article written by a comedian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Kingantti. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-28869991 There is another article i read that outlines an economic model.Cant find it. Its also worth saying that natural resources include many not so obvious wealth creation. Thanks Jake.. to be honest despite obvious differences in our views I'm genuinely interested to be educated on the opportunities Independence would afford.. if its ever to happen the message your promoting is the one which needs to be outed more clearly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malinga the Swinga Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Irrelevant, you can't base future decisions based on a sense of injustice from the past.. if that's your argument you'll never win it Thing is kingantii1874, you have won the argument already but it won't make difference. The SNP supporters on here will never admit they are wrong and they will never admit that their beloved party or party leader is wrong. Some still cannot accept they lost the referendum for any reason other than a conspiracy in postal voting, so you are wasting time arguing with them because their response is to ignore the debate and just make a pointless remark. If they are so certain of their case, call a referendum now and put it to the people. They won't though, because they are inept, spineless cowards and they know they will lose again. All the build up to the independence referendum, all the talk of winning freedom and they blew it. Must be so crushing for the devotees to have built up their hopes only to see the majority of those voting telling them to go **** themselves, that they had no wish to abandon England, Wales and Northern Ireland on the whim and dream of wee Eck and his bunch of cronies. I can see it now, SM and aussieh sitting in their houses, struggling to understand why the economic policy of a 2 year old, written on the back of a fag packet, failed to persuade the majority to risk everything they had worked so hard for all their lives and put it in the hands of a self absorbed would be president. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Civil Engineering 1st class hns from Strathclyde then studied for CA whilst working for KPMG. What did you study ? I've actually gained 2 trades since leaving skool. 7 years working 1st line on RAF jets. 18 years running my own business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 I've actually gained 2 trades since leaving skool. 7 years working 1st line on RAF jets. 18 years running my own business. Respect. You know mate I don't think we will ever agree, think I'll just leave it at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Respect. You know mate I don't think we will ever agree, think I'll just leave it at that. It's about time people disentangled themselves from what's been installed through the the supposedly great British media. I've done it and there's plenty that have done it too. I actually find it quite embarrassing that in this day and modern age that we are even having this conversation kinganitti. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 It's about time people disentangled themselves from what's been installed through the the supposedly great British media. I've done it and there's plenty that have done it too. I actually find it quite embarrassing that in this day and modern age that we are even having this conversation kinganitti. Believe me - i do my own reading and form my own views, some popular, some not. Anyway as I say - that really was the last word from me on this subject for a few weeks at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Believe me - i do my own reading and form my own views, some popular, some not. Anyway as I say - that really was the last word from me on this subject for a few weeks at least. Diddy thoughts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coconut doug Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Civil Engineering 1st class hns from Strathclyde then studied for CA whilst working for KPMG. What did you study ? Do all the CAs at KPMG spell deficit the same way as you? Do they also suffer from dyscalculia when trying to allocate the per capita deficit for Scotland and then compare it to rUK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Diddy thoughts got to have the last word eh.. seriously though, of all the Pro Indy campaigners on here you are by far the easiest to take apart, at no point during the 30 odd pages have you offered a single, rational arguement, response or point of any substance which you haven't picked up from some nationalist fanzine or was brainwashed into you by yer da when you were a lad. My last diddy thought is to contemplate what's your business ? window licker / sorry cleaner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 (edited) Do all the CAs at KPMG spell deficit the same way as you? Do they also suffer from dyscalculia when trying to allocate the per capita deficit for Scotland and then compare it to rUK?Thanks for pointing that out!! I'll get right onto apple. Your right of course on the second point, I think it's a worthwhile illustration but maybe not(I'm not the first person to draw it), regardless either way you look at it, public spending per head, our defIcit as a % of our own GDP or any other way you choose to cut it, there are enormous holes in the Indy economic arguement.. maybe you should worry more about making that case and less about my spelling. Edited February 3, 2017 by kingantti1874 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hasselhoff Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 It's about time people disentangled themselves from what's been installed through the the supposedly great British media. I've done it and there's plenty that have done it too. I actually find it quite embarrassing that in this day and modern age that we are even having this conversation kinganitti. Rich coming from someone getting all excited about a news article from 3 years ago about Scotland's export potential prior to oil revenue collapsing. Balanced people listen to and read a number of sources. I read both pro-Indy and pro-uk content and I form a balanced opinion. It is what sensible people do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Rich coming from someone getting all excited about a news article from 3 years ago about Scotland's export potential prior to oil revenue collapsing. Balanced people listen to and read a number of sources. I read both pro-Indy and pro-uk content and I form a balanced opinion. It is what sensible people do. I was pro-independence when I was younger. However as I have grown up, and observed I have rationalised that the gaps in budget that exist can only be filled by the likes of myself paying in even more, in return for even less. As the alternative is that those with less get even less, which is also not ideal And for what? I don't feel inadequate, or subjugated. I don't feel a prisoner in the Union. I don't feel inferior, or not in control of my own destiny. I am already a Scotsman with freedom to do whatever I so wish, and travel wherever I want. I see no difference in my money being taken and squandered by some twats 100 miles away, or taken and squandered by twats 1000 miles away frankly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coconut doug Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Civil Engineering 1st class hns from Strathclyde then studied for CA whilst working for KPMG. What did you study ? Thanks for pointing that out!! I'll get right onto apple. Your right of course on the second point, I think it's a worthwhile illustration but maybe not(I'm not the first person to draw it), regardless either way you look at it, public spending per head, our defIcit as a % of our own GDP or any other way you choose to cut it, there are enormous holes in the Indy economic arguement.. maybe you should worry more about making that case and less about my spelling. Working for KPMG and not knowing how to spell deficit or miscalculating percentages is quite worrying. Given how often you use the word in your posts and how you rubbish opposing opinions with your supposed economic knowledge I find it quite funny as well. It's a bit like a doctor not understanding the causes of health inequalities, a lawyer not reading the small print or a frequently abusive poster being offended on behalf "Tory toffs". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Working for KPMG and not knowing how to spell deficit or miscalculating percentages is quite worrying. Given how often you use the word in your posts and how you rubbish opposing opinions with your supposed economic knowledge I find it quite funny as well. It's a bit like a doctor not understanding the causes of health inequalities, a lawyer not reading the small print or a frequently abusive poster being offended on behalf "Tory toffs". Frequently abusive am I? Please provide evidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Working for KPMG and not knowing how to spell deficit or miscalculating percentages is quite worrying. Given how often you use the word in your posts and how you rubbish opposing opinions with your supposed economic knowledge I find it quite funny as well. It's a bit like a doctor not understanding the causes of health inequalities, a lawyer not reading the small print or a frequently abusive poster being offended on behalf "Tory toffs". 1. I don't work for KPMG. 2. Do apply the same level of care to posts on this forum as you do in your professional life? your point is nothing more than another pathetic effort at deflection which adds no value to the debate. 3. Again I didn't miscalculate anything - as I said previously it was an illustration used to make a point. Which unless you think there is no correlation "at all" between GDP and population is of value for purpose of making a point on this board. 4. At no point have you or anyone else been able to challenge the central point which is being made by myself and others. Scotland would face tax rises and public spending cuts post independence.. that's a fact Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 I was pro-independence when I was younger. However as I have grown up, and observed I have rationalised that the gaps in budget that exist can only be filled by the likes of myself paying in even more, in return for even less. As the alternative is that those with less get even less, which is also not ideal And for what? I don't feel inadequate, or subjugated. I don't feel a prisoner in the Union. I don't feel inferior, or not in control of my own destiny. I am already a Scotsman with freedom to do whatever I so wish, and travel wherever I want. I see no difference in my money being taken and squandered by some twats 100 miles away, or taken and squandered by twats 1000 miles away frankly Great post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 1. I don't work for KPMG. 2. Do apply the same level of care to posts on this forum as you do in your professional life? your point is nothing more than another pathetic effort at deflection which adds no value to the debate. 3. Again I didn't miscalculate anything - as I said previously it was an illustration used to make a point. Which unless you think there is no correlation "at all" between GDP and population is of value for purpose of making a point on this board. 4. At no point have you or anyone else been able to challenge the central point which is being made by myself and others. Scotland would face tax rises and public spending cuts post independence.. that's a fact But he's worried about your spelling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 So, Scotland in Union...hmmmmmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOak88 Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Working for KPMG and not knowing how to spell deficit or miscalculating percentages is quite worrying. Given how often you use the word in your posts and how you rubbish opposing opinions with your supposed economic knowledge I find it quite funny as well. It's a bit like a doctor not understanding the causes of health inequalities, a lawyer not reading the small print or a frequently abusive poster being offended on behalf "Tory toffs". I am not an Indy supporter but used to find some of your posts quite good Coco. Disappointing to see what could be an interesting debate fall into the same old personal attacks. Picking the guy up on his spelling of one word? He has clearly got under your skin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOak88 Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 (edited) 18 years running my own business. Doing what? Edited February 3, 2017 by TheOak88 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Read - selling Aloe Vera products on Facebook One minute saying personal attacks not on and then this. Ok then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Doing what? Nicely edited so not to make a fool of yourself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Australis Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 (edited) Why has Nicola not called another referendum yet. She said there would be no Brexit, then she would accept a soft Brexit, now our Parliament has voted to Brexit. Edited February 3, 2017 by Australis...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Why has Nicola not called another referendum yet. She's not allowed, pay attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 She's not allowed, pay attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trapper John McIntyre Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 She's not allowed, pay attention. The law is such a bitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 The law is such a bitch. What law is this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trapper John McIntyre Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 What law is this? The one that says as long as Eck Salmond has a hole in his arse, Westminster has the whip hand on allowing any more referendums. The Act of Union of 1707 was ratified in perpetuity in September 2014. Deal with it. God Bless us Britons everyone. You too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 The one that says as long as Eck Salmond has a hole in his arse, Westminster has the whip hand on allowing any more referendums. The Act of Union of 1707 was ratified in perpetuity in September 2014. Deal with it. God Bless us Britons everyone. You too. So you're posting not one current law to back up your last post. Terrific contribution as ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Australis Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 The one that says as long as Eck Salmond has a hole in his arse, Westminster has the whip hand on allowing any more referendums. The Act of Union of 1707 was ratified in perpetuity in September 2014. Deal with it. God Bless us Britons everyone. You too. Yep and the separatists signed up to it. God bless the United Kingdom, Brits forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trapper John McIntyre Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 (edited) So you're posting not one current law to back up your last post. Terrific contribution as ever. I only post the truth, dear boy, only the truth. Edited February 3, 2017 by Trapper John McIntyre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 The truth, dear boy, only the truth. What law? Cmon Einstein, spit it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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