Even More SNP Nonsense

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, Dawnrazor said:

And the rest of the world? 

I've honestly no idea what you're asking mate

[Space Mackerel]

4 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

And the rest of the world? 

 

Germany does 5 times the amount of trade than the U.K. with China. It’s a complete lie that we don’t have open markets to the rest of the world.

 

[Dawnrazor]

2 minutes ago, Smithee said:

I've honestly no idea what you're asking mate

Could the UK not negotiate trade deals with countries outside the EU if it were out, I'm not sure it can while it stays in? 

[Governor Tarkin]

1 hour ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Name one single, solitary, individual EU law that directly affects your life?

 

A cursory visit to the google will present you with a substantial list of EU laws which affect your daily life.

 

What a stupid question.

[Space Mackerel]

3 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

Could the UK not negotiate trade deals with countries outside the EU if it were out, I'm not sure it can while it stays in? 

 

What is a trade deal in your eyes or is it really the latest buzz word that people say since the referendum? 

 

Does anyone actually know the  ins and outs and the nitty gritty. I don’t think anyone really does. 

[Space Mackerel]

1 minute ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

A cursory visit to the google will present you with a substantial list of EU laws which affect your daily life.

 

What a stupid question.

 

A cursory link would be nice.

[Governor Tarkin]

1 minute ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

A cursory link would be nice.

 

Due to the nature of your posting I assumed you could use the google yourself.

[Unknown user]

9 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

Could the UK not negotiate trade deals with countries outside the EU if it were out, I'm not sure it can while it stays in? 

Ok I'm with you. Yeah of course that's possible, but the uk is a much smaller market than the eu so it won't be as attractive and isn't therefore likely to get as good a deal as the eu gets with those same countries.

 

[Space Mackerel]

7 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Due to the nature of your posting I assumed you could use the google yourself.

 

“just use Google” and all worldly truths will be laid bare right before your eyes :-D

 

Want me to Google Theresa May’s dads history and post the links up bearing in mind it’s been washed by GCHQ? What about Philip Cross on Twitter amending loads of Wikipedia pages recently, quite opening too by his own admissions?

 

Google indeed. 

[Governor Tarkin]

12 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

“just use Google” and all worldly truths will be laid bare right before your eyes :-D

 

Want me to Google Theresa May’s dads history and post the links up bearing in mind it’s been washed by GCHQ? What about Philip Cross on Twitter amending loads of Wikipedia pages recently, quite opening too by his own admissions?

 

Google indeed. 

 

[Space Mackerel]

1 minute ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

 

Google is the fountain of all 100% worldly accumulated truthful knowledge according to yourself. Isn’t it? 

 

[Governor Tarkin]

22 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Ok I'm with you. Yeah of course that's possible, but the uk is a much smaller market than the eu so it won't be as attractive and isn't therefore likely to get as good a deal as the eu gets with those same countries.

 

 

We'd win some, we'd lose some.

 

The net effect would be getting sucked further into a race to the bottom and being bullied by the USA and China more than we already are.

[Governor Tarkin]

1 minute ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Google is the fountain of all 100% worldly accumulated truthful knowledge according to yourself. Isn’t it? 

 

 

No, but one can occasionally find the information you are looking for via it's function as an internet search engine.

 

I'm I now to assume that you use Bing to research half the pish you spout?

[Space Mackerel]

One can usual posts ones own actual opinions on the subject matter and negate ones person from searching gazillions upon gazillions of data to whatever one is talking about. 

 

So, which EU law or laws have directly affected you? 

 

[Governor Tarkin]

31 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

One can usual posts ones own actual opinions on the subject matter and negate ones person from searching gazillions upon gazillions of data to whatever one is talking about. 

 

So, which EU law or laws have directly affected you? 

 

 

So where does one gather information about a given subject in order to form ones own opinions? The MSM (arf ?), or from the deepest recesses of ones own rectum?

 

Currently, I am at the mercy of the EU law which affords me the freedom to travel to and work in EU member states - and that's before I get started on HSE and food standards, etc.

 

[Space Mackerel]

21 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

So where does one gather information about a given subject in order to form ones own opinions? The MSM (arf ?), or from the deepest recesses of ones own rectum?

 

Currently, I am at the mercy of the EU law which affords me the freedom to travel to and work in EU member states - and that's before I get started on HSE and food standards, etc.

 

 

You can usually gather information through life experiences, education etc and apply them to future social, political or economical situations you find yourself in as you progress through life. 

 

So what’s your beef with EU law and how does it directly affect your current predicament? 

 

 

[Governor Tarkin]

3 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

 

So what’s your beef with EU law and how does it directly affect your current predicament? 

 

 

 

Erm, I don't remember saying that I have a beef with EU law. I'm sure you've just made that up. The status quo works well for me, although I understand that this is not the case for everyone and things certainly aren't perfect.

 

I'm also sure I've already answerd your second question in an earlier post.

 

If you labour under the illusion that I'll be cajoled into divulging specifics then you're even dimmer than I suspect you are.

 

[Space Mackerel]

4 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Erm, I don't remember saying that I have a beef with EU law. I'm sure you've just made that up. The status quo works well for me, although I understand that this is not the case for everyone and things certainly aren't perfect.

 

I'm also sure I've already answerd your second question in an earlier post.

 

If you labour under the illusion that I'll be cajoled into divulging specifics then you're even dimmer than I suspect you are.

 

 

“Erm” and “I’m also sure”

 

Guess I’ll not bother Googling these cast iron “answers” then. Let us know when you have an original thought in your head then I’m all ears. ?

 

 

[Governor Tarkin]

15 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

“Erm” and “I’m also sure”

 

Guess I’ll not bother Googling these cast iron “answers” then. Let us know when you have an original thought in your head then I’m all ears. ?

 

 

 

You really are a curious fellow Mr Mackerel (in every sense of the term). 

 

Anyway, it's time for bed. Assuming you're in the UK I'll be an hour ahead of you, and I have a busy day of work and being an arsehole on Kickback ahead of me.

 

'Till tomorrow my friend.

Edited June 6, 2018 by Governor Tarkin

[AuldReekie444]

1 hour ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

“Erm” and “I’m also sure”

 

Guess I’ll not bother Googling these cast iron “answers” then. Let us know when you have an original thought in your head then I’m all ears. ?

 

 

I doubt you mean this. 

[Doogz]

11 hours ago, Roxy Hearts said:

The GERS figures are manipulated Doogz. Why won't WM just tell us? What are they hiding? 

 

Again, you ignore my point :  If the figures are so badly manipulated then get more accurate information.

If new figures painted a better picture for the Scottish economy it would ensure a few extra votes at the next referendum ....
But, even though the SNP have had over a decade in power at Holyrood to progress this, I can't even see once where they've attempted to find a solution.
In fact a FOI request last year showed that no Scottish Government minister has contacted the OCEA to ask any questions or raise any concerns around the GERS figures.
Instead the SNP have used the GERS figures as the basis for both the "Scottish Growth Commission" report and the initial "White Paper".
It seems they're happy to accept that the figures are accurate enough to base their Independence plans around them.

 

[Doogz]

16 hours ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Ask him if he, would given a hypothetical state of affairs and Scotland being independent at this moment in time say, join with Westminster and have only 59 Scottish MP’s to 550 ish English ones? 

Congratulations, by moving on from refusing to answer questions to not even being prepared to ask questions directly of the person you want to answer them you appear an even more petulant fool than usual: Quite the achievement!

Anyway, what are the details of your "hypothetical state of affairs" ?

 

16 hours ago, Space Mackerel said:

Also, all these 550 English Mp’s get ALL say in how every aspect of your economy runs etc and the people you vote in don’t make a blind bit of difference. 

 

If we did join in your hypothetical scenario, then it would not be them deciding on your economy - it would just be a larger us deciding on our larger economy.

Also, even with the extra 17 English MPs you've added, based on current populations, if Scotland were to join with 59 MPs we'll be getting better representation/influence per voter than those in England.

 

16 hours ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Ask him if would vote in a referendum to join that set up? 

 

Yes, I would vote in the referendum - but much like any referendum I'd want to hear the reasons for and against the proposal, the facts and figures on the underlying economies etc. before deciding which way to vote.

Would you vote against this referendum even if the facts and figures indicated it would improve the situation in Scotland regarding economic growth, salaries, pensions, give Government an increased budget to spend on welfare, education and Health?

 

[Doogz]

On ‎06‎/‎06‎/‎2018 at 16:21, jack D and coke said:

It’s meant to have limited answers I’m not trying to catch you out, It’s one way or the other, close it or stand on our own two feet. 

You say you’d like a 3rd option, is that not having your cake and eating it? 

Surely you can’t have it both ways? 

This is one of the problems for me it’s creating this halfway house that won’t ever satisfy anyone. We have to go it alone or frankly STFU imo. 

You answered how I think unionist thinkers would tbh. No offence intended pal. 

 

Apologies - I somehow missed this reply until now.
Your suggested hypothetical referendum is in the format "would you like to implement change A or change B?"
This is not the way referendums traditionally work: e.g. "Would you to implement this change: Yes or No?"
There is the option of a multiple choice referendum but it the examples I've looked at remaining with the status quo was one of the available options:
If you go with that approach you end up with a question "Would you like to implement Change A, Change B or remain in Current State C?" which will probably end-up with no answer receiving a majority and a follow-up referendum would be required.
The only reason I can see to go with the format you have suggested is in an attempt to push people who aren't committed strongly to either side of the Indy debate to pick the lesser of two evils - which you obviously hope would be Independence.
It's basically an attempt to manipulate a question to get the result you want at the potential expense of what the majority of voters really want.
The more democratic approach would be to have a referendum on Independence ("Change A") and if it's unsuccessful have a follow up referendum on losing Holyrood ""Change B")
 

 

P.S.

@Space Mackerel - still waiting on your answers !

[jack D and coke]

14 minutes ago, Doogz said:

 

Apologies - I somehow missed this reply until now.
Your suggested hypothetical referendum is in the format "would you like to implement change A or change B?"
This is not the way referendums traditionally work: e.g. "Would you to implement this change: Yes or No?"
There is the option of a multiple choice referendum but it the examples I've looked at remaining with the status quo was one of the available options:
If you go with that approach you end up with a question "Would you like to implement Change A, Change B or remain in Current State C?" which will probably end-up with no answer receiving a majority and a follow-up referendum would be required.
The only reason I can see to go with the format you have suggested is in an attempt to push people who aren't committed strongly to either side of the Indy debate to pick the lesser of two evils - which you obviously hope would be Independence.
It's basically an attempt to manipulate a question to get the result you want at the potential expense of what the majority of voters really want.
The more democratic approach would be to have a referendum on Independence ("Change A") and if it's unsuccessful have a follow up referendum on losing Holyrood ""Change B")
 

 

P.S.

@Space Mackerel - still waiting on your answers !

You’re getting me all wrong I’m not trying to manipulate you into an answer at all. 

Im putting the gun at your head and you answered pretty much exactly the way I expected. 

This halfway house we have isn’t doing anybody any good. I’d be all for them putting everything on the line in another indyref. 

Settle it once and for all. Nobody could ever whinge again and we’d have no excuses for anything that ever happened to us. 

[Doogz]

2 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

You’re getting me all wrong I’m not trying to manipulate you into an answer at all. 

Im putting the gun at your head and you answered pretty much exactly the way I expected. 

This halfway house we have isn’t doing anybody any good. I’d be all for them putting everything on the line in another indyref. 

Settle it once and for all. Nobody could ever whinge again and we’d have no excuses for anything that ever happened to us. 

 

I'm quite comfortable with the answer I've given to your hypothetical referendum - my point is by changing the format of the referendum from the traditional "Do you want to implement Choice A: Yes/No?" , to "would you like to implement change A or change B?" you are limiting the options available to the voters to try and force the outcome you want: If the majority of the electorate want to maintain the status quo why can't they have that as an option ?

You may be happy with Indy or no Holyrood as the only options - but given the last 2 referendum based around Scottish Governance indicated in 2014 they didn't want Independence & 1997 that they did want a devolved parliament - you are removing the options that so far the majority of the electorate have indicated they want - which seems totally undemocratic, to me. As I explained earlier the democratic way to do this is to have a referendum on Independence ("Change A") and if it's unsuccessful have a follow up referendum on losing Holyrood ""Change B").

 

[Roxy Hearts]

On 07/06/2018 at 08:02, Doogz said:

 

Again, you ignore my point :  If the figures are so badly manipulated then get more accurate information.

If new figures painted a better picture for the Scottish economy it would ensure a few extra votes at the next referendum ....
But, even though the SNP have had over a decade in power at Holyrood to progress this, I can't even see once where they've attempted to find a solution.
In fact a FOI request last year showed that no Scottish Government minister has contacted the OCEA to ask any questions or raise any concerns around the GERS figures.
Instead the SNP have used the GERS figures as the basis for both the "Scottish Growth Commission" report and the initial "White Paper".
It seems they're happy to accept that the figures are accurate enough to base their Independence plans around them.

 

I'm not interested in what the SNP want or produce in terms of Growth Commissions or White Papers. I want WM to tell me everything about our economy not just the bits they want to manipulate to beat the SNP with. When will WM grow up instead of hiding behind the MSM?

[Phil Dunphy]

On 07/06/2018 at 00:42, Governor Tarkin said:

 

You really are a curious fellow Mr Mackerel (in every sense of the term). 

 

Anyway, it's time for bed. Assuming you're in the UK I'll be an hour ahead of you, and I have a busy day of work and being an arsehole on Kickback ahead of me.

 

'Till tomorrow my friend.

 

Has he asked you to divulge your voting history yet? He does that sometimes. 

[Doogz]

1 minute ago, Roxy Hearts said:

I'm not interested in what the SNP want or produce in terms of Growth Commissions or White Papers. I want WM to tell me everything about our economy not just the bits they want to manipulate to beat the SNP with. When will WM grow up instead of hiding behind the MSM?

 

You want Westminster to provide everything and nothing is the responsibility of the Scottish Government/SNP/Independence movement ...... are you sure you even want independence? Who will you blame when we can't blame Westminster ?

If you want that information from Westminster I suggest you raise it with your local MP/MSP - as so far the Scottish Government/SNP don't seem to be treating it as a priority.

[Space Mackerel]

Ho hum

 

 

[Space Mackerel]

Seeing the utter seethe was started about bottled water, thought this may be of interest to the OP

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-scotland-business-44404453

[Stuart Lyon]

SM - read that earlier today - no specific mention of it being stocked by W H Smith so we appear to be no further forward with them selling Scottish bottle water! Shows how ineffective the SNP really are!

[Phil Dunphy]

Is that an increase in people backing the Conservatives in a country that claims to hate everything the Conservative Party stands for?

 

Interesting. 

[SE16 3LN]

1 hour ago, Space Mackerel said:

Ho hum

 

 

Proof if ever needed that the Scottish electorate has abandoned Socialism

[Pans Jambo]

30 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

Is that an increase in people backing the Conservatives in a country that claims to hate everything the Conservative Party stands for?

 

Interesting. 

Aye theres a good few brainwashed, self interested, blinkered shitehawks in Scotland though....

[Doogz]

On ‎06‎/‎06‎/‎2018 at 22:26, Space Mackerel said:

Google indeed. 

 

1 hour ago, Space Mackerel said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-scotland-business-44404453

 

Indeed 

[Roxy Hearts]

2 hours ago, Doogz said:

 

You want Westminster to provide everything and nothing is the responsibility of the Scottish Government/SNP/Independence movement ...... are you sure you even want independence? Who will you blame when we can't blame Westminster ?

If you want that information from Westminster I suggest you raise it with your local MP/MSP - as so far the Scottish Government/SNP don't seem to be treating it as a priority.

I'm not raising anything with that Libdem charlatan Jardine or that smug Cole-Hamilton, 2 bigger spongers you couldn't meet. 

 

WM control mostly all the serious controls of the state. Let us see the books. Why is everything framed through the prism of the SNP with you? 

 

It's not a case of blaming them. I want independence for richer or poorer as not about the economy for me per se, more about going in a direction to suit our needs. Self respect and self esteem and managing the things at source. 

[Doogz]

9 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

I'm not raising anything with that Libdem charlatan Jardine or that smug Cole-Hamilton, 2 bigger spongers you couldn't meet. 

 

WM control mostly all the serious controls of the state. Let us see the books. Why is everything framed through the prism of the SNP with you? 

 

It's not - but the SNP are the main party pushing for independence. If the detailed economic figures from Westminster would show the Scottish economy in a better situation than the current info available then the SNP are fundamentally letting down the independence movement by not pushing for this information to be released as it would be an obvious vote winner.

 

9 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

 

It's not a case of blaming them. I want independence for richer or poorer as not about the economy for me per se, more about going in a direction to suit our needs. Self respect and self esteem and managing the things at source. 

 

So you don't care about the economic numbers now? Yet earlier on you said "I want WM to tell me everything about our economy".

Seems basically you're saying independence regardless of the economic consequences - fair enough, but I won't understand why you would risk it without at least trying to understand the consequences.

Also, I don't see how independence will give me any additional self respect and self esteem - these are both related to, well oneself, so the geographical location of our Government isn't really a factor as far as I can tell.

 

[Roxy Hearts]

2 minutes ago, Doogz said:

 

It's not - but the SNP are the main party pushing for independence. If the detailed economic figures from Westminster would show the Scottish economy in a better situation than the current info available then the SNP are fundamentally letting down the independence movement by not pushing for this information to be released as it would be an obvious vote winner.

 

 

So you don't care about the economic numbers now? Yet earlier on you said "I want WM to tell me everything about our economy".

Seems basically you're saying independence regardless of the economic consequences - fair enough, but I won't understand why you would risk it without at least trying to understand the consequences.

Also, I don't see how independence will give me any additional self respect and self esteem - these are both related to, well oneself, so the geographical location of our Government isn't really a factor as far as I can tell.

 

I mentioned the economy as it appears to be the driving factor for a lot people but not mine. 

 

Esteem and respect by not hiding behind WM and making decisions for ourselves. I can imagine what some of our neighbours thought! We used to be Scotland the Brave...... 

 

 

 

 

[SE16 3LN]

1 minute ago, Roxy Hearts said:

I mentioned the economy as it appears to be the driving factor for a lot people but not mine. 

 

Esteem and respect by not hiding behind WM and making decisions for ourselves. I can imagine what some of our neighbours thought! We used to be Scotland the Brave...... 

 

 

 

 

Scotland for the Scots, ruled by brave Scottish people, none of these saft Johnny foreigners intervening here. Self determination for us, by us, us, us, us. 

[Roxy Hearts]

9 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

Scotland for the Scots, ruled by brave Scottish people, none of these saft Johnny foreigners intervening here. Self determination for us, by us, us, us, us. 

Not really, just the people who make their lives here. I was jesting a little about the Brave thing. 

[Phil Dunphy]

1 hour ago, Pans Jambo said:

Aye theres a good few brainwashed, self interested, blinkered shitehawks in Scotland though....

 

There are unsavoury characters on all sides of politics. The bad guys often out number the good guys. 

 

However, the Conservatives are on the rise in Scotland, which is interesting when you think where the party was when the SNP actually took over. 

[Roxy Hearts]

6 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

There are unsavoury characters on all sides of politics. The bad guys often out number the good guys. 

 

However, the Conservatives are on the rise in Scotland, which is interesting when you think where the party was when the SNP actually took over. 

The media, poor Labour and Libs, British jingoism, Brexit and Davidson getting an easy time. People have reasons for voting Tory and fair enough. 

[Doogz]

45 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

I mentioned the economy as it appears to be the driving factor for a lot people but not mine. 

 

Esteem and respect by not hiding behind WM and making decisions for ourselves. I can imagine what some of our neighbours thought! We used to be Scotland the Brave...... 

 

 

The reason many people are concerned around the economy is that if we don't have a decent economy we'll all be worse off.

Not just personally but as a society - if the Government hasn't got money to fund the Health Service, Education & Welfare commensurate with current levels - we will all be worse off.

So you want to prioritise these things behind "Esteem" & "Respect" - but based on what: Geography? National Identity? Neither are all that important to me which may be why I struggle to understand your prioritisation.

[Boris]

34 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

There are unsavoury characters on all sides of politics. The bad guys often out number the good guys. 

 

However, the Conservatives are on the rise in Scotland, which is interesting when you think where the party was when the SNP actually took over. 

 

They are, but simply due to one single policy in respect of independence, or rather the prospect of another referendum.

 

It would seem that some would rather burn the UK by voting Tory, and we know where that gets us, right kids?, than be willing to defend the union in a referendum.  In other words they have reduced politics in Scotland to a binary level.

 

Ah, shout the critics, but that's the SNP's fault for wanting a referendum!  Em, no, it's not.  There are other unionist parties you can vote for!  

[Roxy Hearts]

9 minutes ago, Doogz said:

 

The reason many people are concerned around the economy is that if we don't have a decent economy we'll all be worse off.

Not just personally but as a society - if the Government hasn't got money to fund the Health Service, Education & Welfare commensurate with current levels - we will all be worse off.

So you want to prioritise these things behind "Esteem" & "Respect" - but based on what: Geography? National Identity? Neither are all that important to me which may be why I struggle to understand your prioritisation.

Being responsible for our own economy and prioritising our needs. Not WM one size fits all and then changing only to get more of the same. Archaic. 

[Phil Dunphy]

29 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

The media, poor Labour and Libs, British jingoism, Brexit and Davidson getting an easy time. People have reasons for voting Tory and fair enough. 

 

If you want to talk about a party getting an easy time of it, you can start with the SNP. 

[Phil Dunphy]

1 minute ago, Boris said:

 

They are, but simply due to one single policy in respect of independence, or rather the prospect of another referendum.

 

It would seem that some would rather burn the UK by voting Tory, and we know where that gets us, right kids?, than be willing to defend the union in a referendum.  In other words they have reduced politics in Scotland to a binary level.

 

Ah, shout the critics, but that's the SNP's fault for wanting a referendum!  Em, no, it's not.  There are other unionist parties you can vote for!  

 

Both parties are guilty of pushing one agenda. 

 

Which is why I will never vote for the SNP. Because they use everything in this country as a reason to push another divisive referendum on the country, just because they didn’t like the result of the last one. Oh, something good’s happening in Scotland? See what we can achieve without Westminster?

 

Something’s going badly here? Oh, it’s Westminster’s fault. 

 

I’d respect them more if they were any good at admitting their failings as a party. 

[Doogz]

4 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Being responsible for our own economy and prioritising our needs. Not WM one size fits all and then changing only to get more of the same. Archaic. 

 

So you care about the economic numbers now .... it's getting really difficult to keep track.

 

4 hours ago, Roxy Hearts said:

I'm not interested in what the SNP want or produce in terms of Growth Commissions .

 

Are you currently interested in the SNP Growth Commissions view on the likely future of the economy in Scotland or not?

[EIEIO]

2 hours ago, SE16 3LN said:

Proof if ever needed that the Scottish electorate has abandoned Socialism

27% support for Tories shows Scots rejecting 'socialism , really?

[Pans Jambo]

This is aw pish. 

 

I want a Scottish parliment democraticaly elected by the people of Scotland to run the entire country to look after its own affairs & decide whats best for & by itself. 

 

I dont want another country telling us what to do & making our choices.

 

simples.