Even More SNP Nonsense

[Trapper John McIntyre]

Found anyone to read it to you yet?

Care to try?

[aussieh]

I forgot, we were independent for over a century with the same monarchy and Australian etc... are currently independent with the same monarchy. Plus we fought wars along side France, the US etc... so that rules that out too.

 

Only leaves one reason, other than being an immigrant from rUKland.

[aussieh]

Open, civic, inclusive nationalism.

Do u think the SNP is well within their rights to limit voting on independence to resident Scottish born citizens? They won't(the SNP), but do u think the UK government (forever tory)have the brass neck to say no, after they blackballed EU citizens voting in EUref1.

[JamboX2]

Why? Sovereignty belongs to the Scottish people and they voted remain, no matter what pish the UK Muppets think.

And they voted No.

[JamboX2]

Do u think the SNP is well within their rights to limit voting on independence to resident Scottish born citizens? They won't(the SNP), but do u think the UK government (forever tory)have the brass neck to say no, after they blackballed EU citizens voting in EUref1.

Yes. They can if they want. But that is at odds with everything they've argued since Gordon Wilson was leader. If they want to alienate EU citizens, other UK nationals and turn the debate into one of ethnic nationalism they can and are entitled to. But that would make them a Scottish UKIP. Scared of foreigners and what they bring to our nation.

 

I know you believe that from your posts. However, it is Scottish Little-Englanderism.

 

I'll be totally straight with you, I honestly don't think day to day many people across the UK and in Scotland care what they are. So why make it about that?

[aussieh]

And they voted No.

No they didn't, her people voted against slavery.But alas allowed Traitors to pull support from the oppressors to overrule the vote of Scots.

 

Your bitter Slabour loser tears must sting badly, worse and worse, day by day. So much so you'd a yes voter(cough, aye right) will vote no, condemning your country and Labour for the chance to hate on the SNP.

Edited December 20, 2016 by aussieh

[Thunderstruck]

I don't think one solitary no voter on here, has ever been truthful on why they're so against Scottish independence. We were an independent kingdom for centuries with its own parliament 1235 to 1707? We were sold to England by the money men because they went bankrupt,not the actual country or people.(Scotland had no debt going onto the union) These people(Monarchists) caused riots that lasted over for over half a century. Scotland has plenty of talent, assets and natural resource to do just fine running its own affairs by a government, elected by and only by its people.

 

So, my unionist friends, what's the real reason for the red, white and blue?

Why stop at 1235? What was this land mass before 1235? For the thousands of years before what you consider to be Scotland was constructed.

 

Independence for Dalriada - Freeeeeeedom! Build a flash new Parliament at Finlaggan and bring Antrim back into the fold.

 

Why should they be ruled by non-Gaels in the Central Belt who take all their whisky revenue and spend it in Glasgow instead of on vital infrastructure and life-line services in Cowal, Kintyre and the Southern Hebrides. There are billions of barrels of whisky waiting to be filled and sold at ?6,000/hogshead and this will everyone in the Kingdom fabulously wealthy.

[deesidejambo]

Yes. They can if they want. But that is at odds with everything they've argued since Gordon Wilson was leader. If they want to alienate EU citizens, other UK nationals and turn the debate into one of ethnic nationalism they can and are entitled to. But that would make them a Scottish UKIP. Scared of foreigners and what they bring to our nation.

 

I know you believe that from your posts. However, it is Scottish Little-Englanderism.

 

I'll be totally straight with you, I honestly don't think day to day many people across the UK and in Scotland care what they are. So why make it about that?

Indeed his motivation is simply hatred of the English.

[JamboX2]

No they didn't, her people voted against slavery.But alas allowed Traitors to pull support from the oppressors to overrule the vote of Scots.

 

Your bitter Slabour loser tears must sting badly, worse and worse, day by day. So much so you'd a yes voter(cough, aye right) will vote no, condemning your country and Labour for the chance to hate on the SNP.

I don't hate the SNP. I think they're going about achieving independence all wrong. I think the best way to achieve it is to get on and govern well. Be radical. Show you and the Scots voting public are "politically different" by doing. By showing this you further a need for more power and ultimately independence.

 

Instead the SNP have dropped the ball on governing Scotland. Minus two flagship policies things are very similar to the rest of the UK and it's centre ground politics. Meaning ultimately there is no cause for alarm, no needto leave. The people are happy with the SNP peddling centrist UK-lite policies with a "made in Holyrood" badge on them. So why bother with independence?

 

Labour is a mess. Corbyn is a failed leader. Dugdale is leading a weakened party which isn't getting much of a hearing partly because it is not engaged in the constitutional politics of Scotland. Much like the Greens because they are a sideshow to the SNP or the Liberals who sit bang in the centre on everything. So meh. Why will independence suddenly change anything for Labour? If anything it is the final nail in the coffin. The death of the union is the death of pan-UK Trade Unionism and a pan-UK socialist movement. Two things which underpin Labour.

 

I voted Yes because independence within the EU where the UK is in the EU is a wee change in power. Total unfettered access to the UK market counts a lot more to Scottish jobs, trade and the economy than the EU single market. That if both are independent within the EU stays the same. But where's the logic in forcing a free trade pact (which would be an EU/UK deal which and may not be beneficial to Scottish interests) and likely stricter border controls on cross border travel with your next door neighbour? Where does a Scottish sharing the ? deal fit in here.

 

It makes no sense.

 

Ultimately, the new political map of Europe, to me, makes independence more difficult and troublesome than it's worth. To me the best option is actually the Labour and Liberal one of federalism within the UK. Power and autonomy retaining close links with our nearest neighbours.

 

But you bash on with your arguments on where people were born.

[AlphonseCapone]

I don't hate the SNP. I think they're going about achieving independence all wrong. I think the best way to achieve it is to get on and govern well. Be radical. Show you and the Scots voting public are "politically different" by doing. By showing this you further a need for more power and ultimately independence.

 

Instead the SNP have dropped the ball on governing Scotland. Minus two flagship policies things are very similar to the rest of the UK and it's centre ground politics. Meaning ultimately there is no cause for alarm, no needto leave. The people are happy with the SNP peddling centrist UK-lite policies with a "made in Holyrood" badge on them. So why bother with independence?

 

Labour is a mess. Corbyn is a failed leader. Dugdale is leading a weakened party which isn't getting much of a hearing partly because it is not engaged in the constitutional politics of Scotland. Much like the Greens because they are a sideshow to the SNP or the Liberals who sit bang in the centre on everything. So meh. Why will independence suddenly change anything for Labour? If anything it is the final nail in the coffin. The death of the union is the death of pan-UK Trade Unionism and a pan-UK socialist movement. Two things which underpin Labour.

 

I voted Yes because independence within the EU where the UK is in the EU is a wee change in power. Total unfettered access to the UK market counts a lot more to Scottish jobs, trade and the economy than the EU single market. That if both are independent within the EU stays the same. But where's the logic in forcing a free trade pact (which would be an EU/UK deal which and may not be beneficial to Scottish interests) and likely stricter border controls on cross border travel with your next door neighbour? Where does a Scottish sharing the ? deal fit in here.

 

It makes no sense.

 

Ultimately, the new political map of Europe, to me, makes independence more difficult and troublesome than it's worth. To me the best option is actually the Labour and Liberal one of federalism within the UK. Power and autonomy retaining close links with our nearest neighbours.

 

But you bash on with your arguments on where people were born.

Good post.

[aussieh]

Yes. They can if they want. But that is at odds with everything they've argued since Gordon Wilson was leader. If they want to alienate EU citizens, other UK nationals and turn the debate into one of ethnic nationalism they can and are entitled to. But that would make them a Scottish UKIP. Scared of foreigners and what they bring to our nation.

 

I know you believe that from your posts. However, it is Scottish Little-Englanderism.

 

I'll be totally straight with you, I honestly don't think day to day many people across the UK and in Scotland care what they are. So why make it about that?

Well if it good enough for the oppressors.

[aussieh]

I don't hate the SNP. I think they're going about achieving independence all wrong. I think the best way to achieve it is to get on and govern well. Be radical. Show you and the Scots voting public are "politically different" by doing. By showing this you further a need for more power and ultimately independence.

 

Instead the SNP have dropped the ball on governing Scotland. Minus two flagship policies things are very similar to the rest of the UK and it's centre ground politics. Meaning ultimately there is no cause for alarm, no needto leave. The people are happy with the SNP peddling centrist UK-lite policies with a "made in Holyrood" badge on them. So why bother with independence?

 

Labour is a mess. Corbyn is a failed leader. Dugdale is leading a weakened party which isn't getting much of a hearing partly because it is not engaged in the constitutional politics of Scotland. Much like the Greens because they are a sideshow to the SNP or the Liberals who sit bang in the centre on everything. So meh. Why will independence suddenly change anything for Labour? If anything it is the final nail in the coffin. The death of the union is the death of pan-UK Trade Unionism and a pan-UK socialist movement. Two things which underpin Labour.

 

I voted Yes because independence within the EU where the UK is in the EU is a wee change in power. Total unfettered access to the UK market counts a lot more to Scottish jobs, trade and the economy than the EU single market. That if both are independent within the EU stays the same. But where's the logic in forcing a free trade pact (which would be an EU/UK deal which and may not be beneficial to Scottish interests) and likely stricter border controls on cross border travel with your next door neighbour? Where does a Scottish sharing the ? deal fit in here.

 

It makes no sense.

 

Ultimately, the new political map of Europe, to me, makes independence more difficult and troublesome than it's worth. To me the best option is actually the Labour and Liberal one of federalism within the UK. Power and autonomy retaining close links with our nearest neighbours.

 

But you bash on with your arguments on where people were born.

Federalism Toy Scottish government You think they have power Labour :rofl: Libdems X100 You

[Coolio]

What a load of shite. Especially the very last 2 sentences.

 

You really have no idea do you Thrapper? And neither does the author of this pish.

 

I knew the name Thrapper would catch on, it's just so apt. 

 

Edited December 20, 2016 by Coolio

[Coolio]

 Still laughing.

Edited December 20, 2016 by Coolio

[JamboX2]

Well if it good enough for the oppressors.

I never agreed with that. Nor do I agree with your ideas.

[JamboX2]

Federalism Toy Scottish government You think they have power Labour :rofl: Libdems X100 You

You

[aussieh]

You

[aussieh]

EU citizens are honorary Scots, only rUK disqualified from indyref2.

[Trapper John McIntyre]

 Still laughing.

 

I laughed too.

[Thunderstruck]

EU citizens are honorary Scots, only rUK disqualified from indyref2.

How many voting age EU citizens are there in Scotland do you think? Are they all registered to vote? Would they all take leave of their senses and follow your lead?

[Mister T]

[Boris]

Ultimately, the new political map of Europe, to me, makes independence more difficult and troublesome than it's worth. To me the best option is actually the Labour and Liberal one of federalism within the UK. Power and autonomy retaining close links with our nearest neighbours.

 

 

Aren't you jumping the gun a bit by saying Labour has a federalist policy toward the UK?

 

Sure, Dugdale mentioned it in a speech, but unless Conference accepts it as a UK wide policy, she is simply pissing into the wind on that one.

 

I'm not disagreeing with you regards the benefits of a Federal UK though!  I've long advocated it, indeed wished that the Indy Ref in 2014 would have brought this to the table a lot sooner.

 

Interesting article here and one I sympathise with, no surprise there, some may say, given the source.

 

http://morningstaronline.co.uk/a-4108-Federalism-a-busted-flush-or-way-forward#.WFpR9lWLSM8

[jack D and coke]

EU citizens are honorary Scots, only rUK disqualified from indyref2.

They might be honorary Scots but see if I lived abroad and was eligible to vote on something like an independence vote Id abstain out of respect. I'd keep my nose out frankly.

Scots abroad should get a vote for something of that magnitude imo. It's an enormously important and emotional issue.

[GBJambo]

 

 

Good Conservative is Oor Anne

[AlphonseCapone]

They might be honorary Scots but see if I lived abroad and was eligible to vote on something like an independence vote Id abstain out of respect. I'd keep my nose out frankly.

Scots abroad should get a vote for something of that magnitude imo. It's an enormously important and emotional issue.

What if you are a Scot living abroad most of your life, putting no tax into this country, you get a vote despite it having little impact on you? I can't get behind that tbh.

[jack D and coke]

What if you are a Scot living abroad most of your life, putting no tax into this country, you get a vote despite it having little impact on you? I can't get behind that tbh.

I still think they should get some say. More so than a EU national who has been here a few years tbh. It's not just about putting some tax money in for me. If I for instance lived in Catalonia I wouldn't vote it wouldn't seem right. Historically I have no connection to the place and neither do these EU nationals in Scotland. I could vote for independence for Catalonia then it turns out to be a wrong decision and I can quite easily bugger off. Just my opinion pal.

[JamboX2]

Aren't you jumping the gun a bit by saying Labour has a federalist policy toward the UK?

 

Sure, Dugdale mentioned it in a speech, but unless Conference accepts it as a UK wide policy, she is simply pissing into the wind on that one.

 

I'm not disagreeing with you regards the benefits of a Federal UK though! I've long advocated it, indeed wished that the Indy Ref in 2014 would have brought this to the table a lot sooner.

 

Interesting article here and one I sympathise with, no surprise there, some may say, given the source.

 

http://morningstaronline.co.uk/a-4108-Federalism-a-busted-flush-or-way-forward#.WFpR9lWLSM8

Dugdale, Khan, Jones and the mayoral candidates for Liverpool, Tyneside and Manchester all support it. I think John Trickett is also pro.

 

I reckon it will be approved.

 

I also will read your source. But can't risk that source on the company wifi

[AlphonseCapone]

I still think they should get some say. More so than a EU national who has been here a few years tbh. It's not just about putting some tax money in for me. If I for instance lived in Catalonia I wouldn't vote it wouldn't seem right. Historically I have no connection to the place and neither do these EU nationals in Scotland. I could vote for independence for Catalonia then it turns out to be a wrong decision and I can quite easily bugger off. Just my opinion pal.

I'm no saying you're wrong man, it's a complicated one. I personally wouldn't vote in another country's independence referendum either even if I was able to.

[AlphonseCapone]

Dugdale, Khan, Jones and the mayoral candidates for Liverpool, Tyneside and Manchester all support it. I think John Trickett is also pro.

 

I reckon it will be approved.

 

I also will read your source. But can't risk that source on the company wifi

Hopefully if Labour choose to go down this route that they really go for it, be nice to see some passion from them.

[Boris]

Dugdale, Khan, Jones and the mayoral candidates for Liverpool, Tyneside and Manchester all support it. I think John Trickett is also pro.

 

I reckon it will be approved.

 

I also will read your source. But can't risk that source on the company wifi

 

Tsk...it's a national newspaper!

 

Hopefully if Labour choose to go down this route that they really go for it, be nice to see some passion from them.

 

Agreed!

[deesidejambo]

Hopefully if Labour choose to go down this route that they really go for it, be nice to see some passion from them.

It's their only option for Scotland. Tories get Unionist votes and SNP get the Nats so Labour are frozen out unless they grab the middle ground.

 

I think many would prefer this option.

[AlphonseCapone]

It's their only option for Scotland. Tories get Unionist votes and SNP get the Nats so Labour are frozen out unless they grab the middle ground.

 

I think many would prefer this option.

Agree. I reckon it's a big vote winner.

[aussieh]

They might be honorary Scots but see if I lived abroad and was eligible to vote on something like an independence vote Id abstain out of respect. I'd keep my nose out frankly.

Scots abroad should get a vote for something of that magnitude imo. It's an enormously important and emotional issue.

They're gone, feck them. Its that easy.

[aussieh]

I still think they should get some say. More so than a EU national who has been here a few years tbh. It's not just about putting some tax money in for me. If I for instance lived in Catalonia I wouldn't vote it wouldn't seem right. Historically I have no connection to the place and neither do these EU nationals in Scotland. I could vote for independence for Catalonia then it turns out to be a wrong decision and I can quite easily bugger off. Just my opinion pal.

So Polish with Scots partners and children have no connection, aye, no bad.

 

rUK are barred.

[aussieh]

I'm no saying you're wrong man, it's a complicated one. I personally wouldn't vote in another country's independence referendum either even if I was able to.

I would, free the oppressed.

[Yoda]

That picture would be so much better if they were hanging from her nips.

[Dawnrazor]

That picture would be so much better if they were hanging from her nips.

Good God almighty N?oooooooooooooooooooo! Can you imagine that puss in the throws of passion.... Horrendous!!

[jake]

They're gone, feck them. Its that easy.

 

Its their birthright.

Also anyone registered to vote should get one.

Your tone has gotten a little extreme lately aussie it has to be said.

[Australis]

Senior Spanish politicians reject separate Scottish Brexit deal.

 

 http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/spain-rejects-proposals-for-separate-brexit-deal-splrdd9sf

[jack D and coke]

I don't know if it's possible but I sincerely hope we give Spain a serious boot in the stanes when Brexit actually happens and ban them from fishing our waters.

[Hasselhoff]

http://chokkablog.blogspot.co.uk/2016/12/impact-of-uk-austerity-on-scotlands.html?m=1

 

Interesting blog which finds that rather than Scotland suffering from austerity being passed down to us from the UK government, the money has actually gone up ?1.9bn over 4 years in real terms. Considering we have had major downturn with oil&bags, this proves the value of pooling and sharing with the UK

 

Sadly his analysis will be dismissed as nationalists since they can't stand the guy so this will need to be studied and confirmed/rejected by an independent organisation.

 

If it is true, it does make a mockery of the SNP whining about Tory cuts all the time.

 

Hopefully haven't heard the last of this...

[deesidejambo]

I don't know if it's possible but I sincerely hope we give Spain a serious boot in the stanes when Brexit actually happens and ban them from fishing our waters.

It is possible and highly likely. Many up here in the NE are pro Brexit for that very reason - control of our fishing waters.

[jack D and coke]

It is possible and highly likely. Many up here in the NE are pro Brexit for that very reason - control of our fishing waters.

They're really ripping my jimmys these days I'll be honest[emoji1]

[deesidejambo]

Senior Spanish politicians reject separate Scottish Brexit deal.

 

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/spain-rejects-proposals-for-separate-brexit-deal-splrdd9sf

No surprise. Nippy should just get it in her head that separate deals for Scotland will not happen.

 

And she knows she is sunk on Indy2 as the wave of voters transferring to Indy is not happening - the opposite in fact.

 

On Brexit Scotlands main trading partner by far will be rUK so only the dafties will vote for breaking that.

[Australis]

Nicola after telling us there will be no Brexit today tells us she will be happy with a soft Brexit.

She even tells us if she gets a soft brexit she will take indyref2 plans off the table.

 

The plans were never on the table. She prostituted herself all around Europe looking for support and I think her statement today

we now know what they have al been telling her. From no Brexit to .............. I would like a soft Brexit what a climbdown.

 

What a cracking day, loads of separatist voters voted for Brexit too and it looks like they are telling her.

It will have to be Alex Salmond to the rescue soon, for the divisive little minx that knows everything but knows nothing but noise and lies..

[Gorgiewave]

Nicola after telling us there will be no Brexit today tells us she will be happy with a soft Brexit.

She even tells us if she gets a soft brexit she will take indyref2 plans off the table.

 

The plans were never on the table. She prostituted herself all around Europe looking for support and I think her statement today

we now know what they have al been telling her. From no Brexit to .............. I would like a soft Brexit what a climbdown.

 

What a cracking day, loads of separatist voters voted for Brexit too and it looks like they are telling her.

It will have to be Alex Salmond to the rescue soon, for the divisive little minx that knows everything but knows nothing but noise and lies..

 

The clock is ticking louder and louder for her.

[Ricardo Shillyshally]

Nicola after telling us there will be no Brexit today tells us she will be happy with a soft Brexit.

She even tells us if she gets a soft brexit she will take indyref2 plans off the table.

 

The plans were never on the table. She prostituted herself all around Europe looking for support and I think her statement today

we now know what they have al been telling her. From no Brexit to .............. I would like a soft Brexit what a climbdown.

 

What a cracking day, loads of separatist voters voted for Brexit too and it looks like they are telling her.

It will have to be Alex Salmond to the rescue soon, for the divisive little minx that knows everything but knows nothing but noise and lies..

She doesn't half get an easy ride in Scotland.

 

1) can't guarantee an independent Scotland in Europe

2) loses a Scottish referendum

3) wants to disregard a Scottish referendum result going on about indyref2

4) campaigns for remain _ loses

5) wants to disregard a UK referendum result and runs around Europe trying to get support for Scotland to stay in the EU _ doesn't get it

6) will accept soft Brexit

 

How the hell did she get away with this?

Edited January 6, 2017 by Boo Khaki

[Ricardo Shillyshally]

Surely the Scottish elctortate will soon wake up to "it's the big bad English Tories" to blame routine?

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Surely the Scottish elctortate will soon wake up to "it's the big bad English Tories" to blame routine?

 

No, it's just the big bad English to blame.

 

Sturgeon's idea of Independence is to bend over and take it dry from Brussels, in fact anybody will do as long as it's not the English, that much is abundantly clear now.

[Trapper John McIntyre]

"I'll drop my Independence demand that has MINORITY support if UK government denies MAJORITY of Brits the #Brexit they want. I'm an idiot"

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