Even More SNP Nonsense

[AlphonseCapone]

1 hour ago, jambo lodge said:

Always believe forecasts from the EU. What else has come from SNP Central today? 

 

Financial Times not reputable these days? 

[Trapper John McIntyre]

20 hours ago, JackLadd said:

I'm amazed anybody still supports SNP.  They are beating the same empty drum on ref2 and stirring more trouble and division. Deluded, out of touch, arrogant ... these are their plus points! And the cult of Sturgeon means no debate in that party either. Better check that with FM is the mantra. National Socialism. 

 

When all else fails, 'Raise the flag! The ranks tightly closed!'

 

Love their party badges, too. Strange people, these Gnats. 

 

 

 

[jambo lodge]

59 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Thats from the Financial Times. 

 

Youve got the dreaded “Trapper John” disease, jumping in with both feet, swinging and a missing without reading the post properly. It’s incurable BTW. 

 

The one thing all financial forecasts have in common is they are usually incorrect.

[jambo lodge]

52 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

Financial Times not reputable these days? 

It is being quoted by the European Commission who are certainly not reputable.

[Thunderstruck]

48 minutes ago, Hunky Dory said:

 

Your mob have been screaming about Scotland having an 8billion deficit for four years.  Financial forecasts are acceptable only when they support unionist agendas.

 

A deficit recurring over the previous 4 years is a forecast? Hmmm, that’s novel. 

[shaun.lawson]

1 hour ago, Hunky Dory said:

 

What deficit?  

 

Oh please. Scotland's deficit is over three times that of the UK: 8.3% of Scottish GDP, an eyewatering figure. Those figures mean it's the UK which enables Scotland to have many of its current welfarist/big government-style policies.

 

I have no personal objection to independence: why should I? I'm English, and it's a matter for the people of Scotland. But the numbers behind independence have never, ever, ever stood up - and they still don't now.

 

Could independent Scotland be a success? Yes of course. Any small country can be a success - as long as it lives within its means. In Scotland's case, unfortunately, those means would necessitate enormous tax rises in order to pay for the kind of Scandinavia-style socialism which so many Yes supporters dream of; but socialism in one country doesn't work, and you'll have a much larger, more competitive, generally low tax country on your borders, to which businesses will inevitably flee.

 

So that wouldn't be sustainable. Nor would being part of a currency union. Nor, in all likelihood, would being part of the euro (a probable requirement for EU entry: albeit, we should acknowledge that northern European euro members have mostly done OK).

 

That really only leaves the Scottish pound, belatedly being proposed now. But even then, it's not being done so as part of an honest, "these are the realities of independence we must face" exercise from the Scottish government. By and large, it's more of the exact same "we can have our cake and eat it" gibberish which fuelled Brexit. 

 

Scottish independence is mostly supported by socialists and social democrats - but it would inevitably result in a small 'c' conservative Scotland, which taps into enterprise and incentives small business, and has much smaller government.

 

That's always been the great irony of this whole thing. I'm quite sure iScotland would be a lot more communitarian than England - but that's really the only difference. The SNP can't afford to admit to its supporters that Narnia on thin air, milk and honey for all, could not possibly result; which means that, 4 years on from the referendum, it's still a deeply unserious, dishonest project. 

Edited May 22, 2018 by shaun.lawson

[AlphonseCapone]

11 hours ago, jambo lodge said:

It is being quoted by the European Commission who are certainly not reputable.

 

These reports gather their data from each individual country. So if you are doubting anything then you are doubting the individual, impartial civil service of each nation including the UK. 

 

Baring in mind these figures need to stand up to the scrutiny of Parliament if required. 

 

Simply dismissing it as being the European Commission is cop out and fanatical imo. The UK Government need to be questioned on why we are performing so badly. Blaming a bogey man in Europe let's them off the hook. 

[Pans Jambo]

Fairly sure the governor of the BoE said Scottish financial institutions had assets upwards of a £Trillion Sterling. No bad for a wee country perhaps looking to go it alone. 

 

Would being independant AND a member of the EU not encourage financial businesses to stay/move to Scotland instead of being choked in the square mile post Brexit? Are some not already relocating to Eire exactly because of this?

 

 

Edited May 22, 2018 by Pans Jambo

[lost in space]

9 hours ago, Hunky Dory said:

 

Calm doon, wipe the slavers off your screen, and take a deep breath.

I see you have just answered 6 comments from posters on this thread.

Perhaps you are the poster who needs to "calm doon" - and also realise that you are in the minority - again.

We Scots are canny - and are not going to vote for financial suicide.

I look forward to seeing the Economic Growth Commission Report.  I think it will be "blue-sky thinking\optimistic\unrealistic".  Commissioned by SNP so willo be light on facts - as usual.

[Pans Jambo]

9 minutes ago, lost in space said:

I see you have just answered 6 comments from posters on this thread.

Perhaps you are the poster who needs to "calm doon" - and also realise that you are in the minority - again.

We Scots are canny - and are not going to vote for financial suicide.

I look forward to seeing the Economic Growth Commission Report.  I think it will be "blue-sky thinking\optimistic\unrealistic".  Commissioned by SNP so willo be light on facts - as usual.

A large proportion of the UK voted for ‘financial suicide’ in the last GE. Another 5 years of Tory austerity & an endorsement of the Tory EU brexit (The EU only being the biggest free trade market on the planet). 

[Doogz]

2 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

 

Would being independant AND a member of the EU not encourage financial businesses to stay/move to Scotland instead of being choked in the square mile post Brexit? Are some not already relocating to Eire exactly because of this?

 

If Scotland could become independent and re-join the EU immediately as the rest of the UK leaves then the financial services sector in Scotland would increase as we have the infrastructure and skills in place to take advantage. Sadly the reality is it will take so long to leave the UK and rejoin the EU that all the infrastructure and skills will no longer be available > the only way to try and get those jobs back in Scotland will be by offering bigger tax discounts than Ireland or cheaper labour than Poland and even then it would take another 10 years to get back to the level we are at now.

[Pans Jambo]

19 minutes ago, Doogz said:

If Scotland could become independent and re-join the EU immediately as the rest of the UK leaves then the financial services sector in Scotland would increase as we have the infrastructure and skills in place to take advantage. Sadly the reality is it will take so long to leave the UK and rejoin the EU that all the infrastructure and skills will no longer be available > the only way to try and get those jobs back in Scotland will be by offering bigger tax discounts than Ireland or cheaper labour than Poland and even then it would take another 10 years to get back to the level we are at now.

Sounds a tad negative Doogz. Dont beleive it would take much longer than a couple of years to leave the UK whilst (re)-arranging Scotlands membership of the EU at the same time. Why would we need to pay less salary than Poland? 

Sound like scaremongering to me. And where would the infrastructure and skills just dissapear to?

10 years? I see no evidence that it would take years to leave the UK PLUS 10 years just to stand still. 

I think that companies KNOWING that Scotland would be in the process of re-joining the biggest trade area on the planet would mean that they would know whats happening & what they would be getting (unlike now with Brexit where they know heehaw). 

[Pans Jambo]

16 hours ago, jambo lodge said:

Certainly doesn't support the case for independence when profits from two of the main industry sectors, financial services and oil go out of Scotland. 

Why would oil “go out of Scotland”?

 

Its in our sovereign waters and no brass plaque based in London will change that. The tax would still be to Scotlands treasury. 

 

Would a country the size of Scotland not need any financial services? Would it not trade on the stock markets? As a memeber of the EU I could see the financial services sector grow, not retract. 

[Pans Jambo]

Sturgeon has played a blinder by kick-starting the debate on Independance IMO. 

 

Not a call fro Indyref2, just a discussion about what Scotland could be and how we could achieve it. 

 

Getting her arguments sorted and her ‘ducks in a row’ for when it really kicks off. By that time the Yes pendulum will have swung well into her favour. 

 

Tick tock biatcheez. 

Edited May 22, 2018 by Pans Jambo

[Thunderstruck]

1 hour ago, Pans Jambo said:

A large proportion of the UK voted for ‘financial suicide’ in the last GE. Another 5 years of Tory austerity & an endorsement of the Tory EU brexit (The EU only being the biggest free trade market on the planet). 

 

The largest block of “Leavers” in Scotland were SNP supporters.

 

Why might that have been the case? Was it because they had an antipathy towards the EU or, perhaps, as a result of Sturgeon telling us that a Leave vote would be a game changer if Scotland were to be dragged out of the EU.

 

Talking of single markets and leaving being financial suicide, the graphic below is another example. Why would Scotland want to put its largest trading partner behind a tariff barrier? 

 

You may have noticed the recent outrage expressed by various (as usual, poorly briefed) Scottish Ministers over contracts (not yet let) for the building of Auxilliary vessels for the Navy and why they were not being given to the Clyde and thus ignoring the advertised fact that the Clyde yards have no capacity to build these ships as order books are full and there is no scope to turn to such work until 2032. 

 

Given that degree of importance,  why would Scotland want to turn its back on the underpinnings for 15% of its industrial output - the Royal Navy?

 

I suppose we can all gather at Gourock in the post-Indy Nirvana to wave off those jobs, those industries, that income and that tax revenue as they sail south to Guzz and Pompey. 

 

Then, of course, there are the other services including the RAF which is investing heavily at Lossiemouth to allow hosting of the new fleet of Poseidon Maritime Patrol Aircraft now being delivered. 

 

Can you tell us what provision there is to replace those industries and jobs. Can you tell us if any of the Brains Trust behind the independence movement has even considered the issue. 

 

Indy at all costs and tough on anyone whose income or livelihood is sacrificed to that aim. You cannot decry Brexit if you can’t acknowledge that Indy will bring similar risk. 

 

 

 

[doctor jambo]

2 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

A large proportion of the UK voted for ‘financial suicide’ in the last GE. Another 5 years of Tory austerity & an endorsement of the Tory EU brexit (The EU only being the biggest free trade market on the planet). 

 I agree Pans, but you can be pro-UK, pro-EU and anti-conservative, as well as anti-indy

 

Austerity has been hard- really hard.

but it has to end at some point, and I suspect that point is now,

the only difficulty being it needs to end without tax hikes, as 10 years with no pay rises and declining real term wages does not leave much wriggle room

[jambo lodge]

16 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Why would oil “go out of Scotland”?

 

Its in our sovereign waters and no brass plaque based in London will change that. The tax would still be to Scotlands treasury. 

 

Would a country the size of Scotland not need any financial services? Would it not trade on the stock markets? As a memeber of the EU I could see the financial services sector grow, not retract. 

Oh dear, the profit and large overheads of the parent company would go to wherever was most tax efficient......that would not be an independent Scotland. As for the financial sector , good luck with trying to untie the apron strings from London.

[Thunderstruck]

19 minutes ago, jambo lodge said:

Oh dear, the profit and large overheads of the parent company would go to wherever was most tax efficient......that would not be an independent Scotland. As for the financial sector , good luck with trying to untie the apron strings from London.

 

They keep the royalties but that doesn’t amount to much, certainly not the “Trillions of Pounds” promised by Salmond. 

[Gorgiewave]

10 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Oh please. Scotland's deficit is over three times that of the UK: 8.3% of Scottish GDP, an eyewatering figure. Those figures mean it's the UK which enables Scotland to have many of its current welfarist/big government-style policies.

 

I have no personal objection to independence: why should I? I'm English, and it's a matter for the people of Scotland. But the numbers behind independence have never, ever, ever stood up - and they still don't now.

 

Could independent Scotland be a success? Yes of course. Any small country can be a success - as long as it lives within its means. In Scotland's case, unfortunately, those means would necessitate enormous tax rises in order to pay for the kind of Scandinavia-style socialism which so many Yes supporters dream of; but socialism in one country doesn't work, and you'll have a much larger, more competitive, generally low tax country on your borders, to which businesses will inevitably flee.

 

So that wouldn't be sustainable. Nor would being part of a currency union. Nor, in all likelihood, would being part of the euro (a probable requirement for EU entry: albeit, we should acknowledge that northern European euro members have mostly done OK).

 

That really only leaves the Scottish pound, belatedly being proposed now. But even then, it's not being done so as part of an honest, "these are the realities of independence we must face" exercise from the Scottish government. By and large, it's more of the exact same "we can have our cake and eat it" gibberish which fuelled Brexit. 

 

Scottish independence is mostly supported by socialists and social democrats - but it would inevitably result in a small 'c' conservative Scotland, which taps into enterprise and incentives small business, and has much smaller government.

 

That's always been the great irony of this whole thing. I'm quite sure iScotland would be a lot more communitarian than England - but that's really the only difference. The SNP can't afford to admit to its supporters that Narnia on thin air, milk and honey for all, could not possibly result; which means that, 4 years on from the referendum, it's still a deeply unserious, dishonest project. 

 

No, it wouldn't. Scotland is jam-packed with selfish arseholes, the same as anywhere else.

[Pans Jambo]

1 hour ago, jambo lodge said:

Oh dear, the profit and large overheads of the parent company would go to wherever was most tax efficient......that would not be an independent Scotland. As for the financial sector , good luck with trying to untie the apron strings from London.

 

1 hour ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

They keep the royalties but that doesn’t amount to much, certainly not the “Trillions of Pounds” promised by Salmond. 

 

So Scotland being an independent nation with all that oil in its waters would just allow these companies to bleed it dry without a by your leave then? Is that correct?

 

Or is it just that's the current framework with your lot?

[jambo lodge]

3 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

 

 

So Scotland being an independent nation with all that oil in its waters would just allow these companies to bleed it dry without a by your leave then? Is that correct?

 

Or is it just that's the current framework with your lot?

They will keep going as they have within the UK but if an independent Scotland raises taxes watch them take their profit elsewhere.

[Pans Jambo]

Just now, jambo lodge said:

They will keep going as they have within the UK but if an independent Scotland raises taxes watch them take their profit elsewhere.

OK Bye then.

 

Scottish National Oil Company anyone???

[jambo lodge]

Just now, Pans Jambo said:

OK Bye then.

 

Scottish National Oil Company anyone???

Wow, taking oil into government ownership, what nonsense.

[jambo lodge]

Just now, Hunky Dory said:

 

Norwegian government is the largest shareholder in their own oil and gas extraction.

 

Inconvenient truth.

Venezuela nationalised its oil , not a good example.

[Thunderstruck]

2 minutes ago, Hunky Dory said:

 

Still sticking with this TS?

 

If you believe that Scotland is capable of running a current account surplus without raising taxes, cutting spending, receiving favourable Barnett income, or the benefits of inward investment from the U.K. (see the example of the RN, above), you are only deluding yourself. 

 

Even some of the leading SNP politicos are telling us that independence will come at a price (how things have changed in 4 years!) and with an undefined period of hardship.

 

Who do you think is going to pay for that? You, in Belgium? Big business through Corporation Tax? Oil Revenues? The Chinese?

[jambo lodge]

13 minutes ago, Hunky Dory said:

 

It’s not a good example. That’s why I said Norway.

Norway is a good example of what could have happened but not what will happen.

[Sraman]

10 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

If you believe that Scotland is capable of running a current account surplus without raising taxes, cutting spending, receiving favourable Barnett income, or the benefits of inward investment from the U.K. (see the example of the RN, above), you are only deluding yourself. 

 

Even some of the leading SNP politicos are telling us that independence will come at a price (how things have changed in 4 years!) and with an undefined period of hardship.

 

Who do you think is going to pay for that? You, in Belgium? Big business through Corporation Tax? Oil Revenues? The Chinese?

 

 

Of course it will come at a price. There are a lot of systems to set up and put in place. A hell of a lot of water/electric/gas meters to be fitted on the border, what kind of a border that will be we don't know until Brexit has been decided by the Tories (not the UK, just the Tories). Some initial pain for a hell of a lot of gain.

[jambo lodge]

11 minutes ago, Hunky Dory said:

 

Again not true.  They first found oil in 1969, a mere 50 years ago.  There have been recent successful explorations in the North Sea, that on top of the "decade(s)" remaining prediction, our supplies could last for a similar period.

 

You are right with the prediction of what could have been.  Westminster pissed all the oil money up the wall, of course.  Good to see you acknowledging this.

Shetland managed the oil boom well on behalf of its Islanders.

[Thunderstruck]

9 minutes ago, Sraman said:

 

 

Of course it will come at a price. There are a lot of systems to set up and put in place. A hell of a lot of water/electric/gas meters to be fitted on the border, what kind of a border that will be we don't know until Brexit has been decided by the Tories (not the UK, just the Tories). Some initial pain for a hell of a lot of gain.

 

So who is going to suffer the pain? Can you guarantee that it will not be the poor, the young, the infirm, the frail? 

 

Of course you can’t guarantee that but history should tell you that those groups are exactly the people who will bear the brunt. 

 

Those in the intersection between “socialist” and “nationalist” really need to examine their consciences even if this is only a probability. 

 

If it is not to be those groups, can you envisage those turkeys who pay tax voting for a Christmas with higher costs, poorer services (if that is possible) and a poorer lifestyle - all for the sake of freedoms that will be very quickly exported to Brussels. 

[lost in space]

13 minutes ago, Hunky Dory said:

 

Again not true.  They first found oil in 1969, a mere 50 years ago.  There have been recent successful explorations in the North Sea, that on top of the "decade(s)" remaining prediction, our supplies could last for a similar period.

 

You are right with the prediction of what could have been.  Westminster pissed all the oil money up the wall, of course.  Good to see you acknowledging this.

"pissed all the oil money up the wall". I see the uk as a co-operative. Scotland had larger revenues for a "short" time and we helped the rest of UK. Oil money gone - and uk now helping us.

On our own we would not have this luxury - and please don't mention EU who have all but abandoned Greece.

[Thunderstruck]

27 minutes ago, Hunky Dory said:

 

I've never mentioned anything in relation to a surplus.  I simply stated that no one can determine the financial outlook of an iScotland.

 

You also claimed that the deficit that has recurred over the last 4 years is not a forecast.  It's based on GERS figures which are made up of assumptions, guesses, trends, expectations etc.  Thus, they are clearly forecasted.

 

Scotland has no deficit.  We might have in the future if we secure independence, but it's impossible to calculate what it may be.

 

If “no one can determine the financial outlook of an iScotland”, why are you pressing for this leap into the darkness. Romanticised lunacy - would you bet your house on a horse?   

 

There is little to be gained by arguing with a fanatic but here goes...

 

There is a world of a difference between guessing (irrespective of the degree of education) what the future might bring and looking at income/expenditure in a historic perspective. It is viewing such accounts that have led economists and accountants to conclude that Scotland is running with a deficit. The only debate is the true scale -between £8bn and £15bn per annum. 

 

A simplification - if we say that Scotland  spends £1k/head of population more than it receives in revenues (adjusted for all of VAT and Corporation Tax, etc) then we are looking at a £5bn deficit. The £1k that I suggest is probably at the lower end of likely range. 

 

 

 

 

[Pans Jambo]

1 hour ago, jambo lodge said:

Wow, taking oil into government ownership, what nonsense.

I will just add that to the long

 

LONG

 

 

LONG

 

 

VERY LONG list of things Scotland could never achieve because well.....just because it's Scotland and we are too wee without our big neighbours.

[doctor jambo]

1 hour ago, jambo lodge said:

Wow, taking oil into government ownership, what nonsense.

The MIddle east is a great example of taking the oil into national ownership

 

Russia is a great example of taking it out of national ownership

[jack D and coke]

1 hour ago, Sraman said:

 

 

Of course it will come at a price. There are a lot of systems to set up and put in place. A hell of a lot of water/electric/gas meters to be fitted on the border, what kind of a border that will be we don't know until Brexit has been decided by the Tories (not the UK, just the Tories). Some initial pain for a hell of a lot of gain.

See all the things we need to do in the event of Indy we might even have to create some jobs too. What a nightmare that would be eh. 

[SE16 3LN]

1 hour ago, Hunky Dory said:

 

Norwegian government is the largest shareholder in their own oil and gas extraction.

 

Inconvenient truth.

Yes and they invested it in huge wedges of London Property, along with other undemocratic states such as Russia, China and Saudi Arabia.  It is in fact one of the key reasons that London has the highest levels of homeless people in the UK, the worst Housing conditions and the least prospect of young people being able to buy their own homes. I would love Scotland to have that impact around the world.

 

Remember when Salmond said the SNP would set aside a billion a year from oil revenue, or 10%, for future Scottish economic security. That was in 2012. Since then the Royals have provided more money to the treasury than oil. 

[jambo lodge]

17 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

The MIddle east is a great example of taking the oil into national ownership

 

Russia is a great example of taking it out of national ownership

Really with the Royal families enjoying most of the accumulated wealth.

[doctor jambo]

Just now, jambo lodge said:

Really with the Royal families enjoying most of the accumulated wealth.

The average wages of people in the emirates is >£100k per annum

not so much trickle down as overflow

[jambo lodge]

1 hour ago, Hunky Dory said:

 

Did they?  Why have they then been chasing a 40 year old debt?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/scotland-blog/2013/jul/25/scotland-oil-shetland-housing

£300M of investment over the years with more cash in Trust funds. Not bad for a small Island. Independence here they come.

[JamboX2]

2 hours ago, Hunky Dory said:

 

It’s not a good example. That’s why I said Norway.

 

Good idea in 1974 - Tony Benn had plans to do so post 1979 election once the private firms had cheapened the extraction process - but sadly the ship has sailed.

 

Nationalising green energy or fracking makes sense in future though.

[jambo lodge]

48 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

The average wages of people in the emirates is >£100k per annum

not so much trickle down as overflow

Doesn't seem to reach down to the migrant workers who do the manual tasks.

[lost in space]

1 hour ago, Hunky Dory said:

 

Spoken like a true serf.  There's not another people on earth that would happily hand over all its money to another country, and then be grateful for the pittance it receives in return.

 

In terms of oil, Norway has the worlds largest sovereign wealth fund, we have nothing thanks to years of mismanagement.

You are funny - not sure if you are trying to be or not!!

Re finances with UK - the oil was not all Scotlands oil (I think you know that).  Also, it is better to give away a large sum of cash - if you know that you will receive smaller sums over a long period of time - its called insurance - hope you have some.

Re serf - I take it you would rather be a serf to a German than a Brit then??

[Space Mackerel]

I was recently working in Dunkeld, I know this couple, 20 plus years or so, in their early 80’s, very nice, proper well off Tory voting OAP’s all their lives. Venomous anti independence in 2014 after the vote, hated Nicola Sturgeon. I chatted to them about it for an hour or so back then trying to reason with them over all the issues, cake and a cup of tea chit chat in their front room.

 

Now, we’ll lets say they are more for Indy than the Union, they despise that their grand children don’t have as much of travel and work options now because of Brexit, they now see how England controls the shots, they are fairly livid about Scotland getting taken out even when it was unanimous across the regions to remain. 

 

I reckon right now there is a majority in favour of Indy, small but it’s going to increase as time goes on, that’s why NS has started the debate now and the Growth Commission figures have been held back from December. 

 

Only 1 in 10 has to change their minds remember plus all the youngsters going on to voting age are up for it too. 

 

Theres panic in London, they know it, we know it, hence why they are mobilising. We are just warming up.

 

The Union is over. 

 

[jambo lodge]

3 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

I was recently working in Dunkeld, I know this couple, 20 plus years or so, in their early 80’s, very nice, proper well off Tory voting OAP’s all their lives. Venomous anti independence in 2014 after the vote, hated Nicola Sturgeon. I chatted to them about it for an hour or so back then trying to reason with them over all the issues, cake and a cup of tea chit chat in their front room.

 

Now, we’ll lets say they are more for Indy than the Union, they despise that their grand children don’t have as much of travel and work options now because of Brexit, they now see how England controls the shots, they are fairly livid about Scotland getting taken out even when it was unanimous across the regions to remain. 

 

I reckon right now there is a majority in favour of Indy, small but it’s going to increase as time goes on, that’s why NS has started the debate now and the Growth Commission figures have been held back from December. 

 

Only 1 in 10 has to change their minds remember plus all the youngsters going on to voting age are up for it too. 

 

Theres panic in London, they know it, we know it, hence why they are mobilising. We are just warming up.

 

The Union is over. 

 

In your dreams.

[shaun.lawson]

3 hours ago, Gorgiewave said:

 

No, it wouldn't. Scotland is jam-packed with selfish arseholes, the same as anywhere else.

 

You're a Tory voter and Brexit supporter. You even want Jacob Rees-Mogg as PM. You spout more nonsense in support of all that than any independence supporter ever has.

 

Doesn't that make you a selfish arsehole?

Edited May 22, 2018 by shaun.lawson

[shaun.lawson]

Lots of good sense from @Thunderstruck on the last page or so btw.  

[Thunderstruck]

1 hour ago, Hunky Dory said:

 

From one fanatic to another.

 

I stated that “no one can determine the financial outlook of an iScotland” to challenge the nonsense of iScotland having a perceived deficit.  I am happy to acknowledge that there may be a deficit it independence is secured, but no one can provide a figure.

 

No such accountant or economist have definitively concluded that Scotland would run with a deficit.  They'd be staking their professional credentials on assumptions.  I'd be grateful if you direct me to one.

 

The figures banded about of between 8billion and 15billion are based on current spending, in no way acknowledge iScottish economic activity, and fail to consider the potential impact of independence.  For example, a vast portion of the "deficit" is related to debt management and defense, both of which would differ vastly in iScotland.

 

Your first paragraph is a rather tortured attempt to back out of what you said earlier. Nobody has a Scooby what direction Scotland’s economy will take and that, my dear chap, is the real fly in your ointment; are you really intending to jump out of a serviceable aircraft without a parachute. 

 

For info on deficit, try this, it is a German source so no axe to grind. You can also access all of the other measures in that same site and do your own analysis. You will note that the deficit has declined alongside the U.K. deficit. 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/350687/scottish-revenue-budget-balance/#0

 

There really is no excuse for the hyperbole in your final sentence. “Vast” is clearly inappropriate for elements of spending that each account for circa 5% of the total. Health and Welfare might qualify as vast.

 

The relative levels of expenditure are detailed on the reverse of your annual tax statement. 

 

See here also. 

https://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/classic.html

[Space Mackerel]

24 minutes ago, jambo lodge said:

In your dreams.

 

Did you watch the Policy Exchange stream yesterday? :-D

[Space Mackerel]

For anyone who interested this is out for download. Normally costs a ten spot for the hard back edition

 

https://www.free-ebooks.net/ebook/How-To-Start-A-New-Country-a-Practical-Guide-For-Scotland

[Thunderstruck]

19 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

I was recently working in Dunkeld, I know this couple, 20 plus years or so, in their early 80’s, very nice, proper well off Tory voting OAP’s all their lives. Venomous anti independence in 2014 after the vote, hated Nicola Sturgeon. I chatted to them about it for an hour or so back then trying to reason with them over all the issues, cake and a cup of tea chit chat in their front room.

 

Now, we’ll lets say they are more for Indy than the Union, they despise that their grand children don’t have as much of travel and work options now because of Brexit, they now see how England controls the shots, they are fairly livid about Scotland getting taken out even when it was unanimous across the regions to remain. 

 

I reckon right now there is a majority in favour of Indy, small but it’s going to increase as time goes on, that’s why NS has started the debate now and the Growth Commission figures have been held back from December. 

 

Only 1 in 10 has to change their minds remember plus all the youngsters going on to voting age are up for it too. 

 

Theres panic in London, they know it, we know it, hence why they are mobilising. We are just warming up.

 

The Union is over. 

 

 

Christ! I wish I had a pound for every time you have trotted out a version of this same story. I might be able to afford a Jeanneau 64 (and some crew). 

 

Do you go around pestering the elderly until they tell you what you want to hear so that they can get peace. 

[Space Mackerel]

2 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

Christ! I wish I had a pound for every time you have trotted out a version of this same story. I might be able to afford a Jeanneau 64 (and some crew). 

 

Do you go around pestering the elderly until they tell you what you want to hear so that they can get peace. 

 

Dont blame me for people changing their minds. My mate who works with me has too.

 

And there 2 pals of mine with 5 daughters who voted no last time, they’re 100% Yes supporters too now.