Even More SNP Nonsense

[shaun.lawson]

1 minute ago, deesidejambo said:

Are you two not just differing on what your understanding of Independence is? 

 

We are - but for me, independence is about self-determination. Self-determination is about a people forging their own destiny, able to vote for who they want and get what they vote for.

 

The latter is an impossibility under independence proposals as they currently stand - and may well remain so, regardless of what the SNP come up with.

[Boris]

1 hour ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

We are - but for me, independence is about self-determination. Self-determination is about a people forging their own destiny, able to vote for who they want and get what they vote for.

 

The latter is an impossibility under independence proposals as they currently stand - and may well remain so, regardless of what the SNP come up with.

 

I suspect come the next referendum, the YES campaign will have a clearer idea of the post indy new world.

 

Again, like so many, you conflate independence with the SNP and the SNP solely.  There was much of the much vaunted white paper that i disagreed with, but the first step is to become independent, then evolve the new state.

 

The US constituion wasn't signed until 10 years after independence.

[jack D and coke]

2 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

We are - but for me, independence is about self-determination. Self-determination is about a people forging their own destiny, able to vote for who they want and get what they vote for.

 

The latter is an impossibility under independence proposals as they currently stand - and may well remain so, regardless of what the SNP come up with.

I totally agree with you. The currency union with the rUK was utterly ridiculous and deserved shot down. I voted Yes too. 

To think that even now, 4 years later if they were to call another one, they still don’t have anything concrete on something as important as our currency. It’s a farcical situation. The SNP want shooting for that imo. 

 

[shaun.lawson]

Surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet, as it's been in the news for some days now.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/apr/26/snp-admits-contacting-cambridge-analytica-over-election-campaign

 

Tartan Tories ahoy.

 

There's every sign that, like in 2015 when they secretly wanted a Tory government, the SNP secretly wanted a Leave vote in 2016 too, incidentally. Sleekit *******s.

[jambo lodge]

7 hours ago, Boris said:

 

I suspect come the next referendum, the YES campaign will have a clearer idea of the post indy new world.

 

Again, like so many, you conflate independence with the SNP and the SNP solely.  There was much of the much vaunted white paper that i disagreed with, but the first step is to become independent, then evolve the new state.

 

The US constituion wasn't signed until 10 years after independence.

The next " once in a lifetime " referendum?  The SNP are the independence movement, except for the occasional rent a gob Henry Mcleish. This SNP government cannot cope with its new welfare powers and you want Holyrood to be all powerful...unbelievable!!

[jack D and coke]

1 hour ago, jambo lodge said:

The next " once in a lifetime " referendum?  The SNP are the independence movement, except for the occasional rent a gob Henry Mcleish. This SNP government cannot cope with its new welfare powers and you want Holyrood to be all powerful...unbelievable!!

How much of an james hunt are the current government making of running the uk? Do people like you live in some other dimension where your blind hate of the snp clouds everything else you see? Jumping on little things while May and her government treat you like an idiot lying to us almost daily. 

Im starting to feel like I’m championing the snp here but believe me I’ll critisice them when I think they deserve it. 

The British government are a joke and the opposition even worse but you focus on the snp  

[Space Mackerel]

This is the Yoon mentality in a nutshell.

 

They want to take back that power that Brussels had over them, but want to exercise that said same power over their clossest and nearest neighbours in said “union of equals.” 

[deesidejambo]

1 minute ago, Space Mackerel said:

This is the Yoon mentality in a nutshell.

 

They want to take back that power that Brussels had over them, but want to exercise that said same power over their clossest and nearest neighbours in said “union of equals.” 

 

Er - not every "Yoon" voted to leave the EU.   62% of Scots voters voted Remain, many of whom, like me, are "Yoons".

 

But keep on equating the two.

 

 

[Space Mackerel]

1 hour ago, jambo lodge said:

The next " once in a lifetime " referendum?  The SNP are the independence movement, except for the occasional rent a gob Henry Mcleish. This SNP government cannot cope with its new welfare powers and you want Holyrood to be all powerful...unbelievable!!

 

“Cannot cope”  You’re as always factually incorrect, every single time you post.

 

If anyone cannot its them Torys down South going by all the revelations since May called the election. They’re actually resorting to lying and smearing to cling on. 

[Space Mackerel]

1 minute ago, deesidejambo said:

 

Er - not every "Yoon" voted to leave the EU.   62% of Scots voters voted Remain, many of whom, like me, are "Yoons".

 

But keep on equating the two.

 

 

 

Yoons as in Torys and the vast swathe of what are in effect, English nationalists who support Brexit. 

 

Deeside, you’re going to be the one finding yourself with no party to vote for, maybe even now. 

[deesidejambo]

Just now, Space Mackerel said:

 

Yoons as in Torys and the vast swathe of what are in effect, English nationalists who support Brexit. 

 

Deeside, you’re going to be the one finding yourself with no party to vote for, maybe even now. 

 

So now there are Tory Yoons and Yoons who want to keep the Union but are not Tory?

 

And not to worry about my voting - I can always spoil my paper.

[jambo lodge]

3 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Yoons as in Torys and the vast swathe of what are in effect, English nationalists who support Brexit. 

 

Deeside, you’re going to be the one finding yourself with no party to vote for, maybe even now. 

This particular " Yoon" is proud of the Union and proud of my Scottish heritage. I do wish you would stop the racist comments about " English nationalists". This kind of divisive language is precisely why the SNP will never win another referendum.  Also proud of voting Tory as quite frankly there is no credible alternative in Scotland or the rest of the UK.

[Space Mackerel]

2 minutes ago, deesidejambo said:

 

So now there are Tory Yoons and Yoons who want to keep the Union but are not Tory?

 

 

 

Eh????? Of course there is. 

[Space Mackerel]

2 minutes ago, jambo lodge said:

This particular " Yoon" is proud of the Union and proud of my Scottish heritage. I do wish you would stop the racist comments about " English nationalists". This kind of divisive language is precisely why the SNP will never win another referendum.  Also proud of voting Tory as quite frankly there is no credible alternative in Scotland or the rest of the UK.

Is there no such thing in the world now as an English nationalist? ??

 

Your posts are so factually incorrect I’m just going to let others read and comment how embarrassing and ill informed they are. 

 

Youll be talking to an empty shop. 

Edited April 26, 2018 by Space Mackerel

[jake]

11 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

 

Without control of its monetary supply, no country is independent. As part of a currency union with a much bigger neighbour, no country is able to control its fiscal or economic policy either. 

Nonsense.

Scotland could choose if it so wished the Yen.

In fact as a country which did not have it's own currency and there for no protection of it's national banks it's true worth would be what it's true worth is.

 

Scotland independent could and would prosper.

Historically it has.

In the union with England it can never.

 

Because we live in a capitalist world .

 

Although we don't.

 

And your slagging of Boris about communism .

Karl Marx (I await the growing up comment from the know all) predicted all the things that have came to pass.

 

Once again you think yourself a notch above.

 

Scotland's future well being means independence.

[jake]

Free banking in the 18th and 19th century was the model of capitalism.

Something that can work.

 

Today we have fascism.

 

[jake]

And Scotland does not need permission to use the pound.

 

All that would happen if we used it which we are entitled to do is that Westminster would not guarantee it.

 

Which would mean no bail outs for the banks.

Which would mean fiscal responsibility.

A country that stands on its own two feet .

Why shouldn't Scotland be a high end economy?

 

 

[Space Mackerel]

3 minutes ago, jake said:

And Scotland does not need permission to use the pound.

 

All that would happen if we used it which we are entitled to do is that Westminster would not guarantee it.

 

Which would mean no bail outs for the banks.

Which would mean fiscal responsibility.

A country that stands on its own two feet .

Why shouldn't Scotland be a high end economy?

 

 

 

Scotland invented the pound! It was ours to begin with! 

[jambo lodge]

15 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Scotland invented the pound! It was ours to begin with! 

It is ours when we stay in the Union.

[Space Mackerel]

4 minutes ago, jambo lodge said:

It is ours when we stay in the Union.

 

Another load of political dribble. 

[jake]

23 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Scotland invented the pound! It was ours to begin with! 

The point is space that currency is the promise that capitalism is built on.

And for any government to say you cannot use it negates that currency.

All any government can do is refuse to bail out that currency on a national level.

 

Which makes Shauns initial statement .

 

Nonsense

[jake]

10 minutes ago, jambo lodge said:

It is ours when we stay in the Union.

Check history.

Scotland practiced free banking in the 18th and 19th century.

The principle remains the same.

If not the practice.

As witnessed by bail outs.

 

 

[jake]

The union always benefits the stronger economy.

 

The argument for me is that nations decide what is best for their people.

And that unions of nations decide what is best for the dominant nation.

 

That is fact for any union of nations in history.

 

Without fail.

 

Including the United States.

[shaun.lawson]

48 minutes ago, jambo lodge said:

This particular " Yoon" is proud of the Union and proud of my Scottish heritage. I do wish you would stop the racist comments about " English nationalists". This kind of divisive language is precisely why the SNP will never win another referendum.  Also proud of voting Tory as quite frankly there is no credible alternative in Scotland or the rest of the UK.

 

Why is your username "jambo lodge"? 

[jake]

51 minutes ago, jambo lodge said:

This particular " Yoon" is proud of the Union and proud of my Scottish heritage. I do wish you would stop the racist comments about " English nationalists". This kind of divisive language is precisely why the SNP will never win another referendum.  Also proud of voting Tory as quite frankly there is no credible alternative in Scotland or the rest of the UK.

Although an Indy voter I'm with you on this.

 

It fekin bothers me the way anti English and especially the northern English are vilified by nationalists and snobby academics .

 

They formed the fekin labour movement.

They have been shat on more than any other ethnic group in the UK.

 

But the little theatre luvvies of the left hold them in contempt.

And the thinly veiled racism against the English from the type that use language such as britnats is fekin embarrassing.

[jake]

10 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Why is your username "jambo lodge"? 

Do you still generalise a group of people by their background and nationality .

You know like a racist.

I'd like to know .

You called out the people of Sunderland.

 

So before you try to paint jambo lodge as something put your own fires out.

[Space Mackerel]

10 minutes ago, jake said:

Although an Indy voter I'm with you on this.

 

It fekin bothers me the way anti English and especially the northern English are vilified by nationalists and snobby academics .

 

They formed the fekin labour movement.

They have been shat on more than any other ethnic group in the UK.

 

But the little theatre luvvies of the left hold them in contempt.

And the thinly veiled racism against the English from the type that use language such as britnats is fekin embarrassing.

 

 

There are nationalists from every country jake. England is riding an even bigger wave than up here nowadays. If Brexit goes tits then expect it to explode. 

[Space Mackerel]

Lovely colours they choose on the BBC these days now. 

 

 

[jake]

10 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

 

There are nationalists from every country jake. England is riding an even bigger wave than up here nowadays. If Brexit goes tits then expect it to explode. 

English nationalism is a different animal to ours in some ways.

That's because nationalism when expressed by the majority has the dangers we are all aware of.

 

Scottish nationalism uses language by a lot not all that is racist.

And the term yoon etc is bigoted.

 

My opinion .

If as most nationalists express want a fairer country they need to cut the bitter shit out or they are just the same hypocrites as the Luvvie academics that spout shit from London labour central about Northern English.

[jambo lodge]

37 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Why is your username "jambo lodge"? 

Why is yours Shaun Lawson. Mine has nothing to do with what I think you assume........it has to do with location.

[jambo lodge]

53 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Another load of political dribble. 

You clearly don't enjoy the strength of the pound and the low interest rates we get with it. 

[jake]

2 minutes ago, jambo lodge said:

You clearly don't enjoy the strength of the pound and the low interest rates we get with it. 

The strength of the pound benefits us how exactly?

Because that's a two sided coin.

 

And Scotland can use the pound as an independent nation .

That argument is a red herring.

 

What other benefits do we have being part of the UK?

[Space Mackerel]

4 minutes ago, jake said:

English nationalism is a different animal to ours in some ways.

That's because nationalism when expressed by the majority has the dangers we are all aware of.

 

Scottish nationalism uses language by a lot not all that is racist.

And the term yoon etc is bigoted.

 

My opinion .

If as most nationalists express want a fairer country they need to cut the bitter shit out or they are just the same hypocrites as the Luvvie academics that spout shit from London labour central about Northern English.

 

Yoon means Unionist, you can read whatever you want into it. Same as Nats or any even a lot worse connotations means nationalist. 

I notice your post doesn’t distinguish between the 2 but notes “dangers we are all aware of” What are these dangers you are aware of?

 

[Thunderstruck]

57 minutes ago, deesidejambo said:

 

Er - not every "Yoon" voted to leave the EU.   62% of Scots voters voted Remain, many of whom, like me, are "Yoons".

 

But keep on equating the two.

 

 

 

I think the Nats have managed to convince themselves that everyone who voted “Remain” would vote for independence if the opportunity ever came around again.

 

The truth is more complex as post Brexit Referendum analysis has shown. 

 

Here are a couple of interesting reads:-

 

http://blog.whatscotlandthinks.org/2018/01/how-much-does-scotland-care-about-brexit/

 

http://blog.whatscotlandthinks.org/2018/01/time-for-some-rethinking-in-scotlands-brexit-debate/

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Space Mackerel]

1 minute ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

I think the Nats have managed to convince themselves that everyone who voted “Remain” would vote for independence if the opportunity ever came around again.

 

The truth is more complex as post Brexit Referendum analysis has shown. 

 

Here are a couple of interesting reads:-

 

http://blog.whatscotlandthinks.org/2018/01/how-much-does-scotland-care-about-brexit/

 

http://blog.whatscotlandthinks.org/2018/01/time-for-some-rethinking-in-scotlands-brexit-debate/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Who wrote they blogs mate? 

[Thunderstruck]

Just now, Space Mackerel said:

 

Who wrote they blogs mate? 

 

Read them and see but to help you out, the second is by Sir John Curtice. Remember him, the guy who has the most reliable analyses of social attitudes including voting. The guy who is pointing out, in a cool an rational manner, that support for independence is on the wane. 

[jake]

10 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Yoon means Unionist, you can read whatever you want into it. Same as Nats or any even a lot worse connotations means nationalist. 

I notice your post doesn’t distinguish between the 2 but notes “dangers we are all aware of” What are these dangers you are aware of?

 

Nationalism in a fascist sense

[Space Mackerel]

10 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

Read them and see but to help you out, the second is by Sir John Curtice. Remember him, the guy who has the most reliable analyses of social attitudes including voting. The guy who is pointing out, in a cool an rational manner, that support for independence is on the wane. 

 

Ah, I see you missed out his title bestowed on him recently  by the folks who hand out the U.K. gongs. 

 

Was this deliberate? 

[Space Mackerel]

10 minutes ago, jake said:

Nationalism in a fascist sense

 

Is the Yes movement in Scotland fascist in any sense of the word? 

[jake]

2 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Is the Yes movement in Scotland fascist in any sense of the word? 

No.

 

Is the sentiment of a large segment of nationalists in this country racist towards the English Space?

[Space Mackerel]

1 minute ago, jake said:

No.

 

Is the sentiment of a large segment of nationalists in this country racist towards the English Space?

 

No, I think you’ve been watching too much McGlashan type media from London

Edited April 26, 2018 by Space Mackerel

[jake]

2 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

No, I think you’ve been watching too much McGlashan type media from London

Don't know who that is.

 

I think you know fine well that there is a problem of anti English sentiment in nationalist politic in Scotland.

 

And that's factual.

Shall I share the research with you?

[Space Mackerel]

1 minute ago, jake said:

Don't know who that is.

 

I think you know fine well that there is a problem of anti English sentiment in nationalist politic in Scotland.

 

And that's factual.

Shall I share the research with you?

 

Go on, post your screen shots of a few bams. 

[Space Mackerel]

McGlashan ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jake]

3 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Go on, post your screen shots of a few bams. 

That's not fair Space.

 

I could degenerate our spraff to the usual pish.

Quote where you have took it tight.

 

And you could accuse me of hating polish plumbers.

 

Have a good night

[Space Mackerel]

Just now, jake said:

That's not fair Space.

 

I could degenerate our spraff to the usual pish.

Quote where you have took it tight.

 

And you could accuse me of hating polish plumbers.

 

Have a good night

 

Its entirely fair as your evidence will fail up to scrutiny.

 

Apolgies for the selected MCGlashan vid, there plenty others on YouTube, it did conatain him mocking fictional Hubz win :/

[Space Mackerel]

18 minutes ago, jake said:

Don't know who that is.

 

I think you know fine well that there is a problem of anti English sentiment in nationalist politic in Scotland.

 

And that's factual.

Shall I share the research with you?

 

This is what you were looking for?

 

Right? ?

 

 

[Thunderstruck]

16 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Ah, I see you missed out his title bestowed on him recently  by the folks who hand out the U.K. gongs. 

 

Was this deliberate? 

 

Silly me, I thought putting “Sir” in front of his name acknowledged the Knighthood awarded to him at New Year. 

[Space Mackerel]

11 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

Silly me, I thought putting “Sir” in front of his name acknowledged the Knighthood awarded to him at New Year. 

 

I thought dressing your original posts as some sort of carte blanche on the whole way “whatscotlandthinks” makes him your demagogue?

 

or Sir mr demagogue in your case? 

[Thunderstruck]

2 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

I thought dressing your original posts as some sort of carte blanche on the whole way “whatscotlandthinks” makes him your demagogue?

 

or Sir mr demagogue in your case? 

 

He certainly has a very good grasp of what (the people of) Scotland think as I’m sure you will appreciate having read the article. You did read the article, didn’t you?