Even More SNP Nonsense

[Space Mackerel]

1 minute ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

He certainly has a very good grasp of what (the people of) Scotland think as I’m sure you will appreciate having read the article. You did read the article, didn’t you? 

“a very good grasp” ?

He is a statistician, nothing more nothing less. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Boris]

6 hours ago, Space Mackerel said:

“a very good grasp” ?

He is a statistician, nothing more nothing less. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

He is surely a psephologist

Edited April 27, 2018 by Boris

[SwindonJambo]

6 hours ago, Space Mackerel said:

“a very good grasp” ?

He is a statistician, nothing more nothing less. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

He is a Political Scientist and perhaps the most respected in the country. He’s always come across as being very objective, balanced and  unbiased to me.

 

[Boris]

Just now, SwindonJambo said:

He is a Political Scientist and perhaps the most respected in the country. He’s always come across as being very objective, balanced and  unbiased to me.

 

Spot on.

[jack D and coke]

When our media is massively union centric and for intents and purposes controlled from England where we’re told they pay for our keep I’m not sure what else you’d expect tbh. 

[pablo]

2 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

When our media is massively union centric and for intents and purposes controlled from England where we’re told they pay for our keep I’m not sure what else you’d expect tbh. 

 

Is it though? For local politics, one of my main sources is Radio Scotland and if the BBC is Union-centric, that Brian Taylor must have missed the memo.

[jack D and coke]

1 minute ago, pablo said:

 

Is it though? For local politics, one of my main sources is Radio Scotland and if the BBC is Union-centric, that Brian Taylor must have missed the memo.

The BBC? And radio Scotland in particular? Surely you’re not serious? 

[deesidejambo]

3 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Is it though? For local politics, one of my main sources is Radio Scotland and if the BBC is Union-centric, that Brian Taylor must have missed the memo.

Studies repeatedly show that people on both sides of arguments often blame  media for being against them, and thé losing side always do this.

 

but it doesn’t matter anyway - all the media do is confirm to each what they want to see anyway.   So they are not coing to change their vote anyway.  Nationalists will read The National and Unionists The Mail.

 

But in desperation  Spacey will often quote MSM when they publish something he agrees with but accuse them of lying when they don’t.     Can’t have it both ways.

 

 

[pablo]

42 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

The BBC? And radio Scotland in particular? Surely you’re not serious? 

 

Deadly serious. I think Taylor is tame as feck with the FM.

[Boris]

21 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Deadly serious. I think Taylor is tame as feck with the FM.

 

I think Taylor is prettty fair, by and large, but the presenters on Good Morning Scotland like the sound of their own voices, imo, and offer little in the way of proper questioning.

 

Governments need held to account, as do the opposition parties, but they do seem quick to highlight the deficiencies, as they see them, and slow to highlight any successes.

 

The BBC on a national scale is scared of Corbyn though, the demonisation of him is remarkable!

[jack D and coke]

16 minutes ago, deesidejambo said:

Studies repeatedly show that people on both sides of arguments often blame  media for being against them, and thé losing side always do this.

 

but it doesn’t matter anyway - all the media do is confirm to each what they want to see anyway.   So they are not coing to change their vote anyway.  Nationalists will read The National and Unionists The Mail.

 

But in desperation  Spacey will often quote MSM when they publish something he agrees with but accuse them of lying when they don’t.     Can’t have it both ways.

 

 

Oh cmon man are you saying the BBC is even remotely impartial?  

I've listened to programmes before where they have literally rubbished the idea of independence from the likes of Kaye Adams. There’s is nothing to balance that up on there, imagine someone rubbishing the Union for an hour on the BBC? 

Scotland has about 20-30 newspapers and only one is pro-Indy and considering the vote was over 40% it’s hardly what you’d call balanced. 

The BBC always go negative on SNP stories and bum up Davidson who if there was no indyref to go on about would be seen for the empty heeded one policy vessel she is. 

[jack D and coke]

43 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Deadly serious. I think Taylor is tame as feck with the FM.

He’s a friend of Salmond I believe but I’d say he’s fair more than tame. He’s not that harsh on anyone. 

[deesidejambo]

15 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Oh cmon man are you saying the BBC is even remotely impartial?  

I've listened to programmes before where they have literally rubbished the idea of independence from the likes of Kaye Adams. There’s is nothing to balance that up on there, imagine someone rubbishing the Union for an hour on the BBC? 

Scotland has about 20-30 newspapers and only one is pro-Indy and considering the vote was over 40% it’s hardly what you’d call balanced. 

The BBC always go negative on SNP stories and bum up Davidson who if there was no indyref to go on about would be seen for the empty heeded one policy vessel she is. 

I was thinking more about newspapers tbh.      My point was that people choose which paper to read based on their own prejudices in the first place.    Yes there is only one pro-indy paper and the rest will claim to be either neutral or pro-union (although I think Glasgow Herald was pro-Indy?).  

 

But who cares - nobody is going to change their minds as they choose the papers they read based on their voting intent in the first place.

 

Dont read newspapers - save the money and spend it on beer.

 

 

[jack D and coke]

2 minutes ago, deesidejambo said:

I was thinking more about newspapers tbh.      My point was that people choose which paper to read based on their own prejudices in the first place.    Yes there is only one pro-indy paper and the rest will claim to be either neutral or pro-union (although I think Glasgow Herald was pro-Indy?).  

 

But who cares - nobody is going to change their minds as they choose the papers they read based on their voting intent in the first place.

 

Dont read newspapers - save the money and spend it on beer.

 

 

Haha I do mate  

I haven’t bought a paper for years but the older ones all still do. They are drip fed unionist and unionist shite in a lot of cases absolutely relentlessly, it’s neither wonder they can’t see things any other way. With the negativity towards Scotland’s government and pro-English outlook it’s neither wonder Scotland has similar views to England with regards the EU. We are threatened and kept in line, know your place jock. 

We are beaten over the head with pro union news. Look at the embarrassing clowns in Union Jack suits and dolls with crowns on after Williams new son   Please tell me what people would say if these were saltire suits or people with kilts on? 

[jambo lodge]

11 hours ago, jake said:

The strength of the pound benefits us how exactly?

Because that's a two sided coin.

 

And Scotland can use the pound as an independent nation .

That argument is a red herring.

 

What other benefits do we have being part of the UK?

How about the UK covering Scotland's £13.5b deficit in 2017.

[deesidejambo]

1 hour ago, jack D and coke said:

Haha I do mate  

I haven’t bought a paper for years but the older ones all still do. They are drip fed unionist and unionist shite in a lot of cases absolutely relentlessly, it’s neither wonder they can’t see things any other way. With the negativity towards Scotland’s government and pro-English outlook it’s neither wonder Scotland has similar views to England with regards the EU. We are threatened and kept in line, know your place jock. 

We are beaten over the head with pro union news. Look at the embarrassing clowns in Union Jack suits and dolls with crowns on after Williams new son   Please tell me what people would say if these were saltire suits or people with kilts on? 

Have you seen T2?    The Lodge scène there is one of the funniest moments in movie history.    

[jack D and coke]

7 minutes ago, deesidejambo said:

Have you seen T2?    The Lodge scène there is one of the funniest moments in movie history.    

It’s class eh??  

For some reason it won’t let me link the clip...

[jake]

1 hour ago, jambo lodge said:

How about the UK covering Scotland's £13.5b deficit in 2017.

Jambo the UK debt interest only is 43 billion annually.

It's over all debt is 1.5 trillion approx .

 

 

Just to give some context.

 

 

[Sraman]

1 hour ago, jambo lodge said:

How about the UK covering Scotland's £13.5b deficit in 2017.

 

 

How does this statement even work?? 

 

 

[jake]

Oh and the EU has 15 trillion of debt.

And that doesn't include it's secret debt.

 

By the way all forecast by Karl Marx.

 

?

[jack D and coke]

42 minutes ago, Sraman said:

 

 

How does this statement even work?? 

 

 

It doesn’t work. How about this too...

 

 

England is truly the most generous nation on earth. We really should be more grateful. 

Edited April 27, 2018 by jack D and coke

[jambo lodge]

54 minutes ago, Sraman said:

 

 

How does this statement even work?? 

 

 

So we just ignore the Governments own GERS figures for Scotland because independence will sort it?

[SwindonJambo]

19 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

It doesn’t work. How about this too...

 

 

England is truly the most generous nation on earth. We really should be more grateful. 

The figures on the right are miles out of date.  The UK wide deficit for 2017/18 was anounced as £42bn this week so fallen by a third since the above.  Not sure how that breaks down by the 4 Comoponent Nations as I haven't seen anything published for that yet.

[Seymour M Hersh]

1 hour ago, jake said:

Oh and the EU has 15 trillion of debt.

And that doesn't include it's secret debt.

 

By the way all forecast by Karl Marx.

 

?

 

Groucho was always my favourite.

[jack D and coke]

52 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said:

The figures on the right are miles out of date.  The UK wide deficit for 2017/18 was anounced as £42bn this week so fallen by a third since the above.  Not sure how that breaks down by the 4 Comoponent Nations as I haven't seen anything published for that yet.

They’re from a couple of years ago. 

The message remains the same though. 

Youd have to have a head full of sawdust to believe the smaller countries of the UK make up nearly 60% of the defecit. 

[SwindonJambo]

46 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

They’re from a couple of years ago. 

The message remains the same though. 

Youd have to have a head full of sawdust to believe the smaller countries of the UK make up nearly 60% of the defecit. 

 

I agree that it sounds  far fetched.  It would be good if they showed the basis of calculation. Northern Ireland always used to have a big deficit because of security costs and its weak economy.  But the former has hugely lessened and in the last 20 years, its economy has improved a lot.

[jake]

2 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Groucho was always my favourite.

You know I don't think I've ever watched those guys.

[Sraman]

4 hours ago, jambo lodge said:

So we just ignore the Governments own GERS figures for Scotland because independence will sort it?

 

I didn't mention the GERS figures, it's your statement that doesn't make any sense. You stated that the UK bailed out Scotland to the tune of £15 odd billion, how can that possibly be?

[Seymour M Hersh]

1 hour ago, jake said:

You know I don't think I've ever watched those guys.

 

You should. I recommend (in no particular order), The Cocoanuts, An Night at the Opera, Animal Crackers, rose Feathers and Duck Soup. Brilliant! 

Edited April 27, 2018 by Seymour M Hersh

[jambo lodge]

1 hour ago, Sraman said:

 

I didn't mention the GERS figures, it's your statement that doesn't make any sense. You stated that the UK bailed out Scotland to the tune of £15 odd billion, how can that possibly be?

The UK " covered " is what I said. The strength of the UK economy allows Westminster to borrow at historic low levels, and that includes the annual deficit for Scotland. If Scotland were an independent country with a deficit £13.5b it would have an economy status similar to Greece therefore borrowing costs would be a lot more.

[Space Mackerel]

11 hours ago, Sraman said:

 

 

How does this statement even work?? 

 

 

 

It doesnt, it’s just more political unfactuated dribble.

[Space Mackerel]

4 hours ago, jambo lodge said:

The UK " covered " is what I said. The strength of the UK economy allows Westminster to borrow at historic low levels, and that includes the annual deficit for Scotland. If Scotland were an independent country with a deficit £13.5b it would have an economy status similar to Greece therefore borrowing costs would be a lot more.

 

About time you quoted the latest GDP figures as proof then?

 

This will be good. Take your time. 

[jambo lodge]

4 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

About time you quoted the latest GDP figures as proof then?

 

This will be good. Take your time. 

Still answering questions by asking them SP.

[Space Mackerel]

50 minutes ago, jambo lodge said:

Still answering questions by asking them SP.

 

Just quote the GDP figures please? You’re a mentor for Conservative policy. 

[Sharpie]

On 26/04/2018 at 14:04, jake said:

The point is space that currency is the promise that capitalism is built on.

And for any government to say you cannot use it negates that currency.

All any government can do is refuse to bail out that currency on a national level.

 

Which makes Shauns initial statement .

 

Nonsense

 

Jake, I remember when I was in London in the fifties, some businesses would not accept the Scottish pound, and when it was accepted it was sometimes done at a lower rate.  I guess that is all way back in the distant past now and both are equal.

[jambo lodge]

10 hours ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

About time you quoted the latest GDP figures as proof then?

 

This will be good. Take your time. 

0.5% to December 2017 and 0.1% to March 2018......and?

[jambo lodge]

So back on topic Nats , why did the SNP want to chat to Cambridge Analytica ?

[Sraman]

17 hours ago, jambo lodge said:

The UK " covered " is what I said. The strength of the UK economy allows Westminster to borrow at historic low levels, and that includes the annual deficit for Scotland. If Scotland were an independent country with a deficit £13.5b it would have an economy status similar to Greece therefore borrowing costs would be a lot more.

 

Still doesn't work. "The UK covered Scotland's deficit". Scotland is the UK ya numpty so all you're saying is that Scotland covered it's own deficit. If yer auntie had baws she'd be in a worse state than Greece.

[jambo lodge]

54 minutes ago, Sraman said:

 

Still doesn't work. "The UK covered Scotland's deficit". Scotland is the UK ya numpty so all you're saying is that Scotland covered it's own deficit. If yer auntie had baws she'd be in a worse state than Greece.

Scotland is the UK......really?

[SwindonJambo]

21 hours ago, Lord BJ said:

 

I suspect London skews things massively, 

 

 

I agree. Salaries at a huge premium over those elsewhere and a massive chunk of its workforce commutes in from outside the city limits, further skewed towards higher earners. Infrastructure spending per capita is much higher there, which is resented even in places like Swindon (which has very poor infrastructure) , a mere 80 miles and 1 hour train journey West.

 

Resentment towards the remoteness and apparent ivory tower syndrome of the cosseted elite of London, political and non political is far from rare all over the U.K.!

Edited April 28, 2018 by SwindonJambo

[Sraman]

1 hour ago, jambo lodge said:

Scotland is the UK......really?

 

Yes, really. Along with England, Wales, Northern Ireland and quite a few smaller islands.

 

 

[Sraman]

2 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said:

 

I agree. Salaries at a huge premium over those elsewhere and a massive chunk of its workforce commutes in from outside the city limits, further skewed towards higher earners. Infrastructure spending per capita is much higher there, which is resented even in places like Swindon (which has very poor infrastructure) , a mere 80 miles and 1 hour train journey West.

 

So trickle down economics is a lie? If it hasn't even reached Swindon yet how many more millennia will Scotland have to wait until it gets to us?

[Boris]

2 hours ago, jambo lodge said:

So back on topic Nats , why did the SNP want to chat to Cambridge Analytica ?

Big data is now a thing. So someone spoke to CA and quickly saw them for the charlatans they are. 

[XB52]

2 hours ago, jambo lodge said:

So back on topic Nats , why did the SNP want to chat to Cambridge Analytica ?

the SNP have released all emails concerning any contact with CA. We now await the other parties doing the same, will not hold my breath.

[SwindonJambo]

19 minutes ago, Sraman said:

 

So trickle down economics is a lie? If it hasn't even reached Swindon yet how many more millennia will Scotland have to wait until it gets to us?

 

It has, but only in part. It’s a private wealth public squalor sort of a place, like much of the rest of the U.K. . There’s a hardy core of a few thousand here who commute to London for work.  Unfortunately in the modern era, the increasingly selfish and greedy elite have found ways of hoarding all their profits for themselves with sub inflation pay increases for everyone else. It’s an issue not just in Scotland and the wider U.K. but the whole planet. The rich get richer and the poor even poorer. I’m not sure what the answer is but it certainly isn’t people like Corbyn. He’d be good for equality - by making everyone poor!  I can see all this leading to civil unrest one day.

[Thunderstruck]

4 hours ago, jambo lodge said:

So back on topic Nats , why did the SNP want to chat to Cambridge Analytica ?

 

We shouldn’t forget about he “calling in” of the planning application for the Cockenzie Power Station site; a development by a Chinese company.

 

Calling in of applications at that stage of a development is very unusual so it is all the more strange that it happened to coincide with Sturgeon’s visit to China and a mere 12 days after an SNP MP had suggested the sire be used for “new gateway port at Cockenzie, offering strategic high-frequency, high capacity motorway with connection to EU markets”.

 

It seems that, as with Cambridge Analytica, the rank and file in the Nats are the subject of mushroom management by the “MacMafia” inner circle. 

 

[Sraman]

1 hour ago, SwindonJambo said:

 

It has, but only in part. It’s a private wealth public squalor sort of a place, like much of the rest of the U.K. . There’s a hardy core of a few thousand here who commute to London for work.  Unfortunately in the modern era, the increasingly selfish and greedy elite have found ways of hoarding all their profits for themselves with sub inflation pay increases for everyone else. It’s an issue not just in Scotland and the wider U.K. but the whole planet. The rich get richer and the poor even poorer. I’m not sure what the answer is but it certainly isn’t people like Corbyn. He’d be good for equality - by making everyone poor!  I can see all this leading to civil unrest one day.

 

If "everyone" is poor, it stands to reason that "everyone" would be rich. 

 

But this is an SNP nonsense thread so highlighting why the SNP are correct in wanting Independence isn't the way to go.

[SwindonJambo]

34 minutes ago, Sraman said:

 

If "everyone" is poor, it stands to reason that "everyone" would be rich. 

 

But this is an SNP nonsense thread so highlighting why the SNP are correct in wanting Independence isn't the way to go.

 

It doesn’t stand to reason at all. If the whole economy is chronically mismanaged then the whole country is much poorer. I have several friends who grew up in Communist Poland, crap cars, crap housing, crap infrastructure, bread queues and all when everyone was poor bar the Corrupt Party elite and no Pole wants a return to that. They’ve had 29 years of open democracy and free market economics and after struggling initially when its old Commy heavy industry could not cope, the country has come on in leaps and bounds.

 

The SNP are neither correct nor incorrect.  They MIGHT make Scotland more prosperous and if they achieved their ultimate aim, of course I’d hope they did. There would certainly by some big initial challenges and probably hardship in the transitional period and hard work would be needed - it would be no silver bullet.

 

 Opinion is personal and not a matter of correctness. I respect everyone’s right to their voting choices regardless of who for and why. I live in an area where a donkey in a blue rosette would be elected though I’ve never voted for them myself. Rightly or wrongly, The majority (though not all) of people in democracies all over the World  vote for whoever they think will make them personally more prosperous hence Tory in Wealthy Areas and Lsbour in poorer ones. It’s the same everywhere.

 

Politics in this country has descended into crude snobby/ resentful Class wars and most of our top line Politicians have had little or no employment outside Politics. Until someone emerges who can work in the interests of everyone - encourage the rich to be less greedy, create an environment for business and investment to thrive and improve health and infrastructure,I despair and I’ll probably spoil my ballot paper.

Edited April 28, 2018 by SwindonJambo

[Sraman]

1 minute ago, SwindonJambo said:

 

It doesn’t stand to reason at all. If the whole economy is chronically mismanaged then the whole country is much poorer. I have several friends who grew up in Communist Poland, crap cars, crap housing, crap infrastructure, bread queues and all when everyone was poor bar the Corrupt Party elite and no Pole wants a return to that. They’ve had 29 years of open democracy and free market economics and after struggling initially when its old Commy heavy industry could not cope, the country has come on in leaps and bounds.

 

The SNP are neither correct nor incorrect. Opinion is personal and not a matter of correctness. I respect everyone’s right to their voting choices regardless of who for and why. I live in an area where a donkey in a blue rosette would be elected though I’ve never voted for them myself. Rightly or wrongly, The majority (though not all) of people in democracies all over the World  vote for whoever they think will make them personally more prosperous hence Tory in Wealthy Areas and Lsbour in poorer ones. It’s the same everywhere.

 

Politics in this country has descended into crude snobby/ resentful Class wars and most of our top line Politicians have had little or no employment outside Politics. Until someone emerges who can work in the interests of everyone - encourage the rich to be less greedy, create an environment for business and investment to thrive and improve health and infrastructure,I despair and I’ll probably spoil my ballot paper.

 

 

Ah, so not everyone is poor. That's not what you said.

 

The SNP are correct. The picture of despair painted by your words goes a long way to explaining why. For the record I don't want independence so that I am better off. I want Independence so that my country is able to make it's own decisions and live or die by them, like most Scottish Independence supporters that I know. I agree, however, that the majority are hard of thinking.

 

That's how they want it, they being the Oxbridge elite. Your parties are full of them, you have no other choice than to vote for them and they will continue the divide and rule politics that have been the mainstay of the UK Government since it's inception (it's old people and Muslims just now isn't it?). Westminster is in need of urgent modernisation (not the structure of the building) and has been since it's inception but it will hide behind the mantra of "British values and tradition." The only problem with that tradition is it was set up to allow the landed gentry (it's their values not ours) to tell us what to do and it still is to this day. Remember, "Democracy" and "Citizen" are Greek words, they like their Greek so they do, which "traditionally" don't include the likes of you and me. We weren't even supposed to get words at all, God damn that Church of Scotland,what were they thinking man!. They will fight tooth and nail to resist any modernisation to Westminster or those "values and traditions". Which only goes to show how correct the SNP are.

[jambo lodge]

22 minutes ago, Sraman said:

 

 

Ah, so not everyone is poor. That's not what you said.

 

The SNP are correct. The picture of despair painted by your words goes a long way to explaining why. For the record I don't want independence so that I am better off. I want Independence so that my country is able to make it's own decisions and live or die by them, like most Scottish Independence supporters that I know. I agree, however, that the majority are hard of thinking.

 

That's how they want it, they being the Oxbridge elite. Your parties are full of them, you have no other choice than to vote for them and they will continue the divide and rule politics that have been the mainstay of the UK Government since it's inception (it's old people and Muslims just now isn't it?). Westminster is in need of urgent modernisation (not the structure of the building) and has been since it's inception but it will hide behind the mantra of "British values and tradition." The only problem with that tradition is it was set up to allow the landed gentry (it's their values not ours) to tell us what to do and it still is to this day. Remember, "Democracy" and "Citizen" are Greek words, they like their Greek so they do, which "traditionally" don't include the likes of you and me. We weren't even supposed to get words at all, God damn that Church of Scotland,what were they thinking man!. They will fight tooth and nail to resist any modernisation to Westminster or those "values and traditions". Which only goes to show how correct the SNP are.

Dear oh dear, where to begin. What makes you think that the elite in Scotland, many in the Civil Service and judiciary, will not continue to run Scotland the way they always have. Holyrood is no advert for an Independent Scotland. The SNP government is incompetent and can't evn administer the block grant from Westminster far less having the responsibility to both raise their own funds and spend it wisely.