Adam Murray Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 The council elections will be interesting. If the SNP win easily again will most of the people on this thread admit they are outside the silent majority of Scottish voters? I think a lot will depend on turnout. I honestly think a lot of people are sick to the back teeth of politics just now, it's all we seem to hear on the news or see in the papers, and has been for the past 5-6 years, and the truth is, whatever outcome happens in any of these elections/referendums, nothing much will change for your average man/woman, except perhaps are different target to vent their anger toward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 I think a lot will depend on turnout. I honestly think a lot of people are sick to the back teeth of politics just now, it's all we seem to hear on the news or see in the papers, and has been for the past 5-6 years, and the truth is, whatever outcome happens in any of these elections/referendums, nothing much will change for your average man/woman, except perhaps are different target to vent their anger toward. You could have a scenario where people are either too fed up of it all so low turnout or want to make a statement RE recent events, so high turnout. I'm just not sure which scenario benefits whom. I've been able to vote for 10 years and just assumed that everything was always about politics and the economy as that's been the two main things that constantly fill news since then. Nothing much usually does change for us proles though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Murray Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 I equally find that abhorrent. Perhaps, an outburst of emotion by me, but it rankles that the leader of the opposition feels the need to self deprecate the country she is leader of the opposition in, to gain favour with her counterparts elsewhere. You may of noticed that I have no time for the Tories. I fully respect individuals wish to remain in the union and, in a better world, I'd have been happy to as well. Those who choose the Tories as their last vestige of hope to save this Union are, in m y opinion, misguided. The Tories don't care about you or me, they only care about what serves them best. Their propaganda is emotive but offers no path to the betterment of everyone. Again, IMO. In other words, backing them for what you see as the right reason, will do you more harm than good in the long run. I don't aim that at you Adam, per se, I have no idea of your affiliation politically, I use you to mean those that see the Tories as their only chance for the union. Probably the last person I expected to come out with something like that on this forum, next you'll be advocating executing all Tories It's all a matter of opinion as to what party people think will be better for them in the long run, many people have changed from Labout to SNP for precisely that reason, many will vote Conservative as they do see them as trying to protect the Union. The things the SNP got wrong in Indyref1, you would think they would have answers to by now, or at least before they decided to forge ahead looking to have Indyref2, answers that would probably sway plenty of people toward Independence. All it looks like just now to a lot of people is opportunism, another grievance toward Westminster, causing more confusion and uncertainty in these, already uncertain times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstruck Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 I think a lot will depend on turnout. I honestly think a lot of people are sick to the back teeth of politics just now, it's all we seem to hear on the news or see in the papers, and has been for the past 5-6 years, and the truth is, whatever outcome happens in any of these elections/referendums, nothing much will change for your average man/woman, except perhaps are different target to vent their anger toward. 35 to 40% turnout at best and a voting system that is confusing to many if not most voters will make results unpredictable. When some of the more strident Nats on here admit to adopting "Both Votes SNP" it's not hard to see why predictions might be confounded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Murray Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 You could have a scenario where people are either too fed up of it all so low turnout or want to make a statement RE recent events, so high turnout. I'm just not sure which scenario benefits whom. I've been able to vote for 10 years and just assumed that everything was always about politics and the economy as that's been the two main things that constantly fill news since then. Nothing much usually does change for us proles though! Probably be a bit of both. Some will be apathetic toward it all, others will be keen to make a statement. You'll always have a hardcore of voters,at the moment the SNP have a large amount of these, there's no doubt about that, they are also well ahead of the game in mobilising their voters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 I think a lot will depend on turnout. I honestly think a lot of people are sick to the back teeth of politics just now, it's all we seem to hear on the news or see in the papers, and has been for the past 5-6 years, and the truth is, whatever outcome happens in any of these elections/referendums, nothing much will change for your average man/woman, except perhaps are different target to vent their anger toward. I'll be "wasting" 10 mins of my life to put an X on a ballot paper. What's wrong with too much democracy exactly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Murray Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 I'll be "wasting" 10 mins of my life to put an X on a ballot paper. What's wrong with too much democracy exactly? Perhaps people get sick of others not respecting the democracy, and crying till they get their way, thinking what's the point in voting if they're just going to keep crying till they get their way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstruck Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 I'll be "wasting" 10 mins of my life to put an X on a ballot paper. What's wrong with too much democracy exactly? An "X"? Did you use an "X" in the last Local Elections (if you voted)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 I think a lot will depend on turnout. I honestly think a lot of people are sick to the back teeth of politics just now, it's all we seem to hear on the news or see in the papers, and has been for the past 5-6 years, and the truth is, whatever outcome happens in any of these elections/referendums, nothing much will change for your average man/woman, except perhaps are different target to vent their anger toward. I agree. I think there is an apathy developing. But I think that apathy is over identity politics- the yes/no, EU/Brexit type stuff. I think people would like their politicians to be as focused and hard working on social services, education and the economy as much as they have "process" politics - referendums on who governs who. Time will tell. But I think the SNP will do pretty well. Tories will increase their share of the vote and seats. Labour down. But I agree a low turnout is to be expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 See that bit in bold? WHY does nobody in the No camp EVER understand that? I actually think they do. I think the issue is actually with your question and how you can't see why No voters don't view it your way. No voters are happy with devolution in the Union. They see no need for a vehicle or a means to independence. They will rather want the focus of politics to be on schools, hospital, care services, transport, local government, housing and so on. To first view the SNP as a vehicle to independence you need to be wedded to independence as an over everything else cause. If you are not for independence then the SNP appear a "steady as she goes" government talking about an issue you do not agree with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Borders Rail Line? The Schools building program / anti-sectarian act - now that's a very dodgy for Labour? I like the Building of the Scottish Parliament and the Edinburgh Tram Project. Paying for a car parking space at hospital. Tuition fees? If the Lib/Lab government were that great why have they never been in power for ten year's and counting. Hand puppets for their London paymasters. Borders Rail Line? It was one of the final Acts of the Lab-Lib government. The Schools building program / anti-sectarian act - now that's a very dodgy for Labour? How are new schools dodgy? Anti-sectarian funding was cited by many, including Tam Devine, as being one of the great moves of devolution. I like the Building of the Scottish Parliament and the Edinburgh Tram Project. Of course you do. I think both were badly handled. How about failures to pay farmers their CAP money? Growing educational inequality in attainment? Regressive council tax freeze? Paying for a car parking space at hospital? Is that truly awful to contemplate paying for a space at a hospital? Is Scotland that narrow and wedded to sacred cows that now free car parking in some hospitals is deemed the great social leveller? The greatest work of a Scottish administration since Thomas Johnston brought the 'peasant and his family' power to their homes and built hydroelectric dams to supply it? Since the Scottish Reform Act of 1832? Since the catholic emancipation? Really? Tuition fees? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/618698.stm I'm not saying they were the bestestest everestest government Scotland had. I just think you're ignoring the fact that progress was made by those 3 administrations (Dewar/McLeish/McConnell). On Tuition and Free Personal Care they stood up to Westminster opposition. I accept the SNP have done good things in office. It's not a bad thing to recognise a good thing when you see it. If anything the SNP have maintained and preserved the early achievements of those early governments. Why is that a bad thing? The vitriolic hate of some is mind boggling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 (edited) But section 30's and Holyrood votes for indyref2 keep peoples minds, and media headlines off such 'unimportant' matters. Really? Seems to me one party and their watermelon lapdogs voted for it not parliament. I wonder how all this squares with the SNP members and parliamentarians who voted for Brexit? Edited March 31, 2017 by Seymour M Hersh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Really? Seems to me one party and their watermelon lapdogs voted for it not parliament. I wonder how all this squares with the SNP members and parliamentarians who voted for Brexit? Two parties and a majority of parliament which is when the term, 'Parliament has voted for it', applies. Disagree with the decision but it's basic political terminology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Can I just ask who abolished tuition fees in Scotland? did the country ever have them? Must have missed that in between me not having them in the 90's , and now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Can I just ask who abolished tuition fees in Scotland? did the country ever have them? Must have missed that in between me not having them in the 90's , and now https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_tuition_fees_in_the_United_Kingdom#Scotland The graduate endowment was essentially the student paying back their fees once they earned ?25k+, so in effect the government were getting their money back for paying the fees up front. So in effect, the graduate endowment was paying for your tuition fees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_tuition_fees_in_the_United_Kingdom#Scotland The graduate endowment was essentially the student paying back their fees once they earned ?25k+, so in effect the government were getting their money back for paying the fees up front. So in effect, the graduate endowment was paying for your tuition fees. OK I get it now. I think that once out the EU we should re- introduce student grants- means tested of course ( I got a full one and it really helped! Lucky I was poor!) I would fund it by restricting what was on offer at college for "free" and make far more things vocational we must graduate more nail technicians and "hair and beauty" than nurses/OT's and physios combined and or the life of me I have no idea what they are all doing at college and why they cannot do it at work Thoug hI would also make nursing an "apprenticeship style " course overseen by senior matrons- thus addressing both educational need and workforce crisis. And a good many other courses too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambos are go! Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 (edited) Semantics, the Students of them time know who actually introduced free tuition.The Graduate Endownment Scheme introduced after an independent review by Andrew Cubie was a vastly superior system to free tuition IMO.For a start better off kids had to contribute and that money contributed to free support for less well off kids. There was expansion not reductions in College places and no Holyrood limits on University places for Scottish kids to pay for free tuition. Its removal was a major error based on political pandering to populist policies by the SNP. Again IMO. I have not got facts to hand but if you look at the outcomes for individual students I'm pretty sure that average student debt in Scotland is around the same level level as in England and Wales were substantial repayable fees are included. I'll try and get facts and figures since I'm not sure. Regardless if it suits my point or not. Edited March 31, 2017 by jambos are go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pans Jambo Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Scotland needs a new centre right party though "conservative " is a death tag up here and they can never gain power again. It has become a term of abuse In my opinion we need a similar arrangement to NI where there is a party that is affiliated though not the same Not much to argue against there DJ. Seems a fresh start up here could do us both good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XB52 Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 35 to 40% turnout at best and a voting system that is confusing to many if not most voters will make results unpredictable. When some of the more strident Nats on here admit to adopting "Both Votes SNP" it's not hard to see why predictions might be confounded. what do you mean 'admit to adopting both votes SNP'?? I am an SNP supporter so, of course I will give my votes to the SNP. Labour and Tory voters have openly admitted to tactical voting to try and get anyone but SNP in which I think is just weird but that is their choice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Not much to argue against there DJ. Seems a fresh start up here could do us both good I would like a federal UK I have always found being a Scotsman when on holiday to be an advantage and especially a Scotsman as part of the UK - mainly because everyone hates the English, and if anything being tethered to England emphasises our greatness and reputation without doubt we are the best part of the UK by some distance, and I like that- I like the banter in England , and the brotherhood with the Welsh/ Cornish and the "northerners" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstruck Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 what do you mean 'admit to adopting both votes SNP'?? I am an SNP supporter so, of course I will give my votes to the SNP. Labour and Tory voters have openly admitted to tactical voting to try and get anyone but SNP in which I think is just weird but that is their choice If you expect your party to have a clear majority in the constituency vote, casting a second vote for them in the List ballot is tantamount to a wasted vote due to the arithmetic used in allocating List Votes. If, of course, you do not expect your party to gain the Constituency Seat then "Both Votes (insert you party)" is entirely appropriate although I would suggest that for the majority of seats in 2016, using both votes for SNP was wasteful given the "groundswell" ( if 25% of the electorate can be described as such) of support for the SNP. I will happily admit to voting tactically and to adopting the approach of voting "Anyone but the SNP". Unfortunately, i have an SNP Constituencty MSP (who seems to have gone into hiding since the election) and a more diverse array of List MSPs who do take a closer interest in local matters. This notion that the SNP are effective as representatives or as a government does not bear close scrutiny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaymarketJambo Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 (edited) what do you mean 'admit to adopting both votes SNP'?? I am an SNP supporter so, of course I will give my votes to the SNP. Labour and Tory voters have openly admitted to tactical voting to try and get anyone but SNP in which I think is just weird but that is their choice A good post. I'm the same - Both votes SNP. Edited March 31, 2017 by HaymarketJambo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo lodge Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 And in the last few hours of parliament before the Easter break Nicola and her chums publish a couple of negative reports about support for rape victims and the overcrowded Scottish Rail network. two days to discuss you know what and then.......... a brief report on the day job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 A good post. I'm the same - Both votes SNP. Me too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trapper John McIntyre Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 A good post. I'm the same - Both votes SNP. Quelle Surprise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trapper John McIntyre Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Me too Gobsmacked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambos are go! Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 The Graduate Endownment Scheme introduced after an independent review by Andrew Cubie was a vastly superior system to free tuition IMO.For a start better off kids had to contribute and that money contributed to free support for less well off kids. There was expansion not reductions in College places and no Holyrood limits on University places for Scottish kids to pay for free tuition. Its removal was a major error based on political pandering to populist policies by the SNP. Again IMO. I have not got facts to hand but if you look at the outcomes for individual students I'm pretty sure that average student debt in Scotland is around the same level level as in England and Wales were substantial repayable fees are included. I'll try and get facts and figures since I'm not sure. Regardless if it suits my point or not. http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14562911.Scottish_student_debt_rising__but_still_lowest_in_UK/ As promised. Sorry I got that wrong and average student debt in Scotland is currently half that of the rest of the UK albeit rising faster.. Last year it went up by 12% and an incredible 75% in the last 5 years. That would point o the previous Graduate Endownment Scheme being much more beneficial to final outcomes for Students. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxy Hearts Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Both votes SNP. Who else is there in Scotland? There are no other Scottish parties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trapper John McIntyre Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Both votes SNP. Who else is there in Scotland? There are no other Scottish parties. One is enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxy Hearts Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trapper John McIntyre Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Why? Because as the 'Scottish' party they are making an absolute **** of running the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxy Hearts Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Because as the 'Scottish' party they are making an absolute **** of running the country. Give them the levers to make it better if you feel that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trapper John McIntyre Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Give them the levers to make it better if you feel that way. They've fecked it up even with Barnet bail outs. God knows how we would end up with out that extra cash. You sure know all the SNP mind wash catch phrases, levers etc. Why have you allowed yourself to be taken in by utter nonsense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 They've fecked it up even with Barnet bail outs. God knows how we would end up with out that extra cash. You sure know all the SNP mind wash catch phrases, levers etc. Why have you allowed yourself to be taken in by utter nonsense? Should take lessons from the UK treasury with their trillions of debts. Why no greeting about this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxy Hearts Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 They've fecked it up even with Barnet bail outs. God knows how we would end up with out that extra cash. You sure know all the SNP mind wash catch phrases, levers etc. Why have you allowed yourself to be taken in by utter nonsense? Eh! Extra cash? Barnett nonsense is a fraction of our country's wealth. How are our consequentials coming on ? What SNP mindwash phrases? I'm not a member so don't know what they say. Does the UK have debt and a deficit and what is Scotland's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 (edited) They've fecked it up even with Barnet bail outs. God knows how we would end up with out that extra cash. You sure know all the SNP mind wash catch phrases, levers etc. Why have you allowed yourself to be taken in by utter nonsense? ?1.8 TRILLION now and counting. Any answer? http://www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk/ Edited March 31, 2017 by Space Mackerel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxy Hearts Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 ?1.8 TRILLION now and counting. Any answer? http://www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk/ The talk Scotland down mob never put the same amount of scrutiny into Westminster. Wonder why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 Semantics, the Students of them time know who actually introduced free tuition. Pray tell what fees were paid up front? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 The talk Scotland down mob never put the same amount of scrutiny into Westminster. Wonder why?Jambo X 2 is going to work twice as hard squared just to pay the interest off to the banks that his capitalist bankruptcy believes in. :-/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 Semantics, the Students of them time know who actually introduced free tuition. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/618698.stm Semantics? Read the bit on the endowment. A payment not to cover fees but to pay for access for the poorest to get into uni and for the maintenance and support grants to be funded fully. Frankly, I'd bring it back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/618698.stm Semantics? Read the bit on the endowment. A payment not to cover fees but to pay for access for the poorest to get into uni and for the maintenance and support grants to be funded fully. Frankly, I'd bring it back. The BBC [emoji849] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 (edited) Jambo X 2 is going to work twice as hard squared just to pay the interest off to the banks that his capitalist bankruptcy believes in. :-/Says the man with mates at the top of the Oil industry and high finance aye? To quote Orange Juice "I hope to god you're not as dumb as you make out... i hope to god" Edited April 1, 2017 by JamboX2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 The BBC [emoji849] "A Scottish Graduate Endowment for the general benefit of undergraduates reflecting the benefits to graduates from higher education and student maintenance. That benefit will not include the tuition fees paid to universities and colleges. The Scottish Graduate Endowment will be used for the Access Payments for students while studying." A ladder I benefitted from. A ladder for those in need of a boost up into uni. A ladder cut away. The consequences of which I experienced first hand at university as once again Scottish universities became a bastion of middle class privilege. And under the SNP. Bit indy at all costs, eh, ken? The nation either way this all goes has a massive hangover coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_tuition_fees_in_the_United_Kingdom#Scotland The graduate endowment was essentially the student paying back their fees once they earned ?25k+, so in effect the government were getting their money back for paying the fees up front. So in effect, the graduate endowment was paying for your tuition fees. Utterly false. http://news.bbc.co.u...land/618698.stm The endowment was NOT a payment to fund fees. It was a payment to support living grants and maintenance allowances which have been slashed since it's abition. A fund designed to help those who mummy and daddy cannot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 Says the man with mates at the top of the Oil industry and high finance aye? To quote Orange Juice "I hope to god you're not as dumb as you make out... i hope to god" Yup, you're right. Enjoy NU Labours electoral dissection over the local elections in May. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 Yup, you're right. Enjoy NU Labours electoral dissection over the local elections in May. Democracy is what it is. If the people chose not to support Labour, I can only surmise Labour are not popular and are not offering a coherent picture of what they want to achieve in Scotland. Which is fair. Christ knows what Kezia is for at the moment. I have read the Labour Edinburgh manifesto. It's good. http://www.edinburghlabour.com/manifesto2017 have a read. But the Liberals and Greens have great policies for Edinburgh too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 Democracy is what it is. If the people chose not to support Labour, I can only surmise Labour are not popular and are not offering a coherent picture of what they want to achieve in Scotland. Which is fair. Christ knows what Kezia is for at the moment. I have read the Labour Edinburgh manifesto. It's good. http://www.edinburghlabour.com/manifesto2017 have a read. But the Liberals and Greens have great policies for Edinburgh too. I got to page 3 The best thing for Labour is to go for Indy. It's best for the working class if you believe in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 I got to page 3 The best thing for Labour is to go for Indy. It's best for the working class if you believe in it. All of that is debatable. If Brexit is a jump into the dark then so is independence. Neither side can say one is any more uncertain than the other. So the debate has to be on the positives: a reformed post-Brexit union or an independent Scotland. Both options entail years of hard work and hard choices. But thats where we are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewie Griffin Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 It was a back end fee you had to pay which was introduced as an alternative to tuition fees, which everyone just added to their student loan. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Read the Cubie report itself then. The Endowment was a graduate tax designed and hypothecated to access payments, maintenance grants and bursaries for tge poorest to get to university. In effect once all graduates earned ?25,000 + at 0. of a percentage. Since abolished those grants and bursaries have been cut. Students attending university from poorer backgrounds have dropped. And student debt has gone up because maintenance allowances have been cut and loans are the only other option. Free tuition is fine and noble. Education should be free at the point of use. But we need to ensure that the ladders to university and further education are not cut away. All you will do then is ensure university is a bastion of privilege and wealth, and for foreign students. I'd bring it back tomorrow. A tiny tax on all at a fair wage to help the less well off into university is surely better than all students at entry salaries (below ?20k in a lot of places still) paying back debt immediately? The programs it funded helped me into university. I think taking it away has had clear negative impacts. But to argue we did not have free tuition before 2007 is a myth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.