Sturgeon shelves plan for quick second Scottish independence referendum

[Thunderstruck]

Trend is it's gone up from 45 to 48 percent in 2 years.

 

Keep taking the anti-delusional pills old bean.

 

 

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You should have read the article rather than just look at the pictures. The devil is, after all, in the detail.

 

"Nationalists see Brexit Bounce fade away".

 

Further, support for another referendum any time soon is very low indeed.

 

But dream on if that's what floats your boat.

[JamboX2]

No they won't, they'll gain from the SNP after Indy and become the first government of Scotland.

But you don't want to hear that do you.

 

OH Shute, I've replied to you again.

 

Sorry

Frankly, that assertion has no backing. If we become independent i dont think Labour would form or form part of the first government.

 

The SNP's vision of Scotland is one where Labour has been decimated. Their success in future is dependent on the destruction of the Labour Party.

[Space Mackerel]

You should have read the article rather than just look at the pictures. The devil is, after all, in the detail.

 

"Nationalists see Brexit Bounce fade away".

 

Further, support for another referendum any time soon is very low indeed.

 

But dream on if that's what floats your boat.

Second episode on tonight at 8pm

 

Here's the first. Professor Curtess has an interesting quip right at the end.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b07w4dzl/scotland-and-the-battle-for-britain-episode-1

 

 

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[Mister T]

The pressure is irresistible:

 

Where's the wally? Sorry, the space Mackerel?

[Gorgiewave]

If these maps were properly representative, London would be displayed as larger than Scotland. Areas of empty land don't have a vote.

 

 

Good posting.

[deesidejambo]

What point are you making? Surely even you're not thick enough to think this suggests a 54% support for independence?

In a recent youGov poll 8% of intended No voters said they wanted the second Referendum soon so Space Cadets idea that this represents a 54% support for Indy is bollocks.

 

I want it tomorrow so we can kick this nonsense into touch and everybody mend and move on.

 

But wee nippy doesn't have the guts for that.  She got the result she wanted form the Brexit vote and she has bottled it.

 

She will only go for it when her support hits 60%.    Which wont happen.

[Gorgiewave]

In a recent youGov poll 8% of intended No voters said they wanted the second Referendum soon so Space Cadets idea that this represents a 54% support for Indy is bollocks.

 

I want it tomorrow so we can kick this nonsense into touch and everybody mend and move on.

 

But wee nippy doesn't have the guts for that.  She got the result she wanted form the Brexit vote and she has bottled it.

 

She will only go for it when her support hits 60%.    Which wont happen.

 

With rhetoric like today's in the Sunday Herald, I think they're slowly slipping the noose round their necks. There are currently only little cracks among Yes people but it will turn into a flood, I predict. Tears, snotters and hatred within ten years.

[Space Mackerel]

With rhetoric like today's in the Sunday Herald, I think they're slowly slipping the noose round their necks. There are currently only little cracks among Yes people but it will turn into a flood, I predict. Tears, snotters and hatred within ten years.

You should watch that link to the documentary by Andrew Marr that was shown last Sunday and finished tonight on BBC 2 I posted a wee while ago.

 

Give yourself a bit of a wake up call so it will.

[aussieh]

The pressure is irresistible:

 

What's up, is there not enough flutes, drums and zimmerframes for you.

[aussieh]

I think he's being ironic, GW.

 

Concentrate on the real enemy.

No Surrender, is that what you're saying?

[manaliveits105]

Its a big photae of a small group - aye ?

 

If its NAW again will it be the best o 5 ?

 

If its YES  will we have another referendum in a couple of years because the Nos dont like the result - seems only fair as thats what would be happening now.

 

Get on with the day job Jimmy or move over for someone who will .

[Gorgiewave]

What's up, is there not enough flutes, drums and zimmerframes for you.

 

I don't want them dead, I want them to stop being braindead.

[jambos are go!]

SNP abandoning any pretence that they will need a material change in circumstance like Brexit to call another refendum. Desperation and a complete V sign to the Unionist Majority and Democracy. Nonsense on stilts needs to be put to the sword one way or another. Even a Referendum.

[Thunderstruck]

SNP abandoning any pretence that they will need a material change in circumstance like Brexit to call another refendum. Desperation and a complete V sign to the Unionist Majority and Democracy. Nonsense on stilts needs to be put to the sword one way or another. Even a Referendum.

Exactly. If the UK had voted "Remain" some other excuse would have been conjured out of thin air.

 

Indy is all they have and, as others will remind us, that is their overarching aim.

 

It is not, however, enough for Scotland - we need competent and decisive government. A decade of this lot is 5 years too long.

[Space Mackerel]

we need competent and decisive government. A decade of this lot is 5 years too long.

You've got that in spades. We're around for a long time yet, just like the Tories down South

 

 

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[jambo lodge]

The SNP has been in control in Scotland for nearly ten years. They have had the option of varying taxes for all of that time, have they done it NO.  No real government just grievances.

[Space Mackerel]

The SNP has been in control in Scotland for nearly ten years. They have had the option of varying taxes for all of that time, have they done it NO.  No real government just grievances.

So what would you like them to do?

[jambos are go!]

So what would you like them to do?

End the Council Tax Freeze and free tuition for rich kids. A couple of pence on income tax for Schools and the NHS. A few ideas of their own would be a start. What the point of independence or devolution if we are just clones of the rUK,

 

I expect ideas and solutions from politicians. When faced with an issue the SNP either blame Westminster or say they are going to consult international experts about what to do. That is not leadership. Its feeble.

[Space Mackerel]

End the Council Tax Freeze and free tuition for rich kids. A couple of pence on income tax for Schools and the NHS. A few ideas of their own would be a start. What the point of independence or devolution if we are just clones of the rUK,I expect ideas and solutions from politicians. When faced with an issue the SNP either blame Westminster or say they are going to consult international experts about what to do. That is not leadership. Its feeble.

Council Tax freeze is ending I believe soon. Councils are allowed to increase up to 3 percent. I was actually glad of the freeze as I find here in Edinburgh and most of Scotland they weren't delivering value for money, trams an example. They needed reigned in and modernised.

As for schools, John Swinney has announced that it's possible money will bypass Councils and go straight to the schools themselves, bypassing a layer of beaucracy so hopefully more money at the front line.

[deesidejambo]

I'd be happy to pay more income tax if it went to a transparent itemised budget.

 

But maybe a more radical move by the SNP would be to lower it as part of a longer-term strategy to attract investment.    Guess that may be bit to radical though and probably fiscally risky.

 

But getting the powers to vary tax then doing nothing suggests they are happy with the rates set by Westminster.   Not what I expected from a Scottish perspective.

[Space Mackerel]

I'd be happy to pay more income tax if it went to a transparent itemised budget.

 

But maybe a more radical move by the SNP would be to lower it as part of a longer-term strategy to attract investment. Guess that may be bit to radical though and probably fiscally risky.

 

But getting the powers to vary tax then doing nothing suggests they are happy with the rates set by Westminster. Not what I expected from a Scottish perspective.

I'd be happy to pay a wee bit more myself. After all, I pay ?300 for season ticket and an extra ?20 a month to Foundation of Hearts.

 

Let's be honest, the SNP were never going to increase the tax bands, its clever politics, playing the game as every party does. They're holding most the Aces now, no need to show their hand.

 

 

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[jambos are go!]

Council Tax freeze is ending I believe soon. Councils are allowed to increase up to 3 percent. I was actually glad of the freeze as I find here in Edinburgh and most of Scotland they weren't delivering value for money, trams an example. They needed reigned in and modernised.

As for schools, John Swinney has announced that it's possible money will bypass Councils and go straight to the schools themselves, bypassing a layer of beaucracy so hopefully more money at the front line.

And they say Tartan Toryism is dead.

[Space Mackerel]

And they say Tartan Toryism is dead.

You should know by now that the SNP has various political factions across the board. It's not a hidden secret. Maybe that's the beauty of it ?

[jambo lodge]

Who did Alex Salmond depend on for support in the years of his reign........the Tories. They simply cannot harp on and on about austerity and do nothing about it when they have the power to raise taxes. At some stage very soon I hope the Scottish public will see through their hypocracy.

[Space Mackerel]

Who did Alex Salmond depend on for support in the years of his reign........the Tories. They simply cannot harp on and on about austerity and do nothing about it when they have the power to raise taxes. At some stage very soon I hope the Scottish public will see through their hypocracy.

No idea what you're on about? Alex Salmond "depend" on the Tories?

He's used them and their hypocrisy at every opportunity? And rightly so.

 

 

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[Boab]

You should know by now that the SNP has various political factions across the board. It's not a hidden secret. Maybe that's the beauty of it ?

It's the wolf in sheep's clothing faction that worry me. With Labour in disarray, they can jump positions to suit while keeping Fat Ruth's mob at bay with carrots for their supporters.

 

Clever.

[jambo lodge]

Think the Scottish public are beginning to wise up , latest Survation poll out tonight support for Independence down 5% to 42%. Maybe good reason for Nicola not wanting to rush for second vote. 

[Boab]

Think the Scottish public are beginning to wise up , latest Survation poll out tonight support for Independence down 5% to 42%. Maybe good reason for Nicola not wanting to rush for second vote. 

 

She's doing exactly what she said, in all fairness.

 

If there was no appetite for an Indy Ref, she wouldn't push for one.

 

Only problem is, of course, that if those figures stay as they are for a long period......she may be in the brown stuff.

 

IF.....you believe the poll !!

[Space Mackerel]

It's the wolf in sheep's clothing faction that worry me. With Labour in disarray, they can jump positions to suit while keeping Fat Ruth's mob at bay with carrots for their supporters.

 

Clever.

So it's the SNP's fault that Labour and the left are in disarray now up here and down South?

 

When will it end? Is everything the fault of Sturgeon?

 

 

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[Boab]

So it's the SNP's fault that Labour and the left are in disarray now up here and down South?

 

When will it end? Is everything the fault of Sturgeon?

 

 

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Au contraire, SM.

 

They can afford to jump into any seat that suits as all are essentially vacant as the other parties couldn't run a bath.

 

When I hear any minister talking about taking control away from local authorities, it worries me.

[deesidejambo]

Think the Scottish public are beginning to wise up , latest Survation poll out tonight support for Independence down 5% to 42%. Maybe good reason for Nicola not wanting to rush for second vote. 

Link?  It looks like 47% on the one I saw.

[Yoda]

So it's the SNP's fault that Labour and the left are in disarray now up here and down South?

 

When will it end? Is everything the fault of Sturgeon?

 

 

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Telling Robbie to defend the 2-0 lead for 45mins against H1b5 in the cup, was unforgivable. 

[Space Mackerel]

Telling Robbie to defend the 2-0 lead for 45mins against H1b5 in the cup, was unforgivable.

Get over it, Ozturk went off and our defence was a shambles

 

 

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[Thunderstruck]

End the Council Tax Freeze and free tuition for rich kids. A couple of pence on income tax for Schools and the NHS. A few ideas of their own would be a start. What the point of independence or devolution if we are just clones of the rUK,

 

I expect ideas and solutions from politicians. When faced with an issue the SNP either blame Westminster or say they are going to consult international experts about what to do. That is not leadership. Its feeble.

I can recall Derek McKay telling a meetin a decade ago that things would change once Scotland gained control of the taxation levers. He has now inherited the Finance brief from John Swinney but there is not the slightest indication that they will vary tax to be "anti-austerity".

 

The Council Tax Freeze will end and there is to be tinkering with top Bands but it is years too late and in that time local services and facilities have had to be cut. Education and Social Care are ring-fenced so everything else has had a 25% real terms cut - libraries, halls, playing fields, parks, non-trunk roads, pavements, street cleaning, cleansing, environmental health, managing elections and public conveniences. There is so much more to local services than the trams.

 

The latest wheeze is devolution of funding and control directly to schools. This already applies, for a former Teacher Training College connection, to one school in Scotland. Would it work in another location which is not a very affluent part of Glasgow? Nobody knows; no study, no consultation, just a soundbite.

 

The common thread in all of this is the erosion of local democracy and the centralisation of power. Don't be fooled that the school plan is some form of devolution.

[JamboX2]

Council Tax freeze is ending I believe soon. Councils are allowed to increase up to 3 percent. I was actually glad of the freeze as I find here in Edinburgh and most of Scotland they weren't delivering value for money, trams an example. They needed reigned in and modernised.

As for schools, John Swinney has announced that it's possible money will bypass Councils and go straight to the schools themselves, bypassing a layer of beaucracy so hopefully more money at the front line.

If by reigned in you mean have their autonomy scaled back and by modernised you mean have their budgets slashed... then superb. It's happened.

 

The councils being squeezed has done nothing to benefit the worst off in Scotland, children or those with disabilities and old. It has been an attack and furthering of austerity by choice.

[JamboX2]

No idea what you're on about? Alex Salmond "depend" on the Tories?

He's used them and their hypocrisy at every opportunity? And rightly so.

 

 

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He used their votes and allied with them in his 2007/11 period of government. Actively did so.

 

So much for progressive politics.

[JamboX2]

I can recall Derek McKay telling a meetin a decade ago that things would change once Scotland gained control of the taxation levers. He has now inherited the Finance brief from John Swinney but there is not the slightest indication that they will vary tax to be "anti-austerity".

 

The Council Tax Freeze will end and there is to be tinkering with top Bands but it is years too late and in that time local services and facilities have had to be cut. Education and Social Care are ring-fenced so everything else has had a 25% real terms cut - libraries, halls, playing fields, parks, non-trunk roads, pavements, street cleaning, cleansing, environmental health, managing elections and public conveniences. There is so much more to local services than the trams.

 

The latest wheeze is devolution of funding and control directly to schools. This already applies, for a former Teacher Training College connection, to one school in Scotland. Would it work in another location which is not a very affluent part of Glasgow? Nobody knows; no study, no consultation, just a soundbite.

 

The common thread in all of this is the erosion of local democracy and the centralisation of power. Don't be fooled that the school plan is some form of devolution.

Superb post. The schools plan smacks of enforced academisation which as we've seen in England has been a means to dilute alternatives to the central government and their ability to influence local decision making to suit their local needs.

[Gorgiewave]

Get over it, Ozturk went off and our defence was a shambles

 

 

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WOOOOOOOOOSH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Space Mackerel]

WOOOOOOOOOSH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mr Wave destroying his own thread [emoji23]

 

 

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[Arnold Rothstein]

Mr Wave destroying his own thread [emoji23]

 

 

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You had more than taken care of that, don't worry.

[Yoda]

WOOOOOOOOOSH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Exactly.

[coconut doug]

Superb post. The schools plan smacks of enforced academisation which as we've seen in England has been a means to dilute alternatives to the central government and their ability to influence local decision making to suit their local needs.

Which bit of post1008 can be described as "superb"? Is it the claim that the budgets on social care and education are "ring fenced" ? If so, then I think you are wrong but perhaps you can show me different. 

 

Maybe it's the bit about there not being the slightest indication that they will vary tax to be "anti-austerity". This can't be true though as you will remember you argued this point before and eventually admitted that you didn't know about the SNP's refusal to raise the threshold for the 40% tax rate and how that worked out better for lower earners than the Labour 1p on the rate proposal.

 

I'm sure you must remember this as several people took the time to explain how the tax system worked and I distinctly remember you thanking people for their contribution. The SNP were castigated by Labour for not taxing enough and by the Tories for making Scotland the most taxed part of the U.K.

 

I think it must be something to do with schools. The post is suggesting greater "centralisation of power" and you are saying "Enforced Academisation". This seems incompatible to me. You want the opposite of the poster.

 

The post says there is no consultation but I think there is, as various interested parties have contributed to this debate and were invited by the government to do so. We don't know yet what the outcomes will be but I can see no way anybody wants Academisation forced or otherwise, but if you know different I'd like to see it.

 

 

[JamboX2]

Which bit of post1008 can be described as "superb"? Is it the claim that the budgets on social care and education are "ring fenced" ? If so, then I think you are wrong but perhaps you can show me different.

 

Maybe it's the bit about there not being the slightest indication that they will vary tax to be "anti-austerity". This can't be true though as you will remember you argued this point before and eventually admitted that you didn't know about the SNP's refusal to raise the threshold for the 40% tax rate and how that worked out better for lower earners than the Labour 1p on the rate proposal.

 

I'm sure you must remember this as several people took the time to explain how the tax system worked and I distinctly remember you thanking people for their contribution. The SNP were castigated by Labour for not taxing enough and by the Tories for making Scotland the most taxed part of the U.K.

 

I think it must be something to do with schools. The post is suggesting greater "centralisation of power" and you are saying "Enforced Academisation". This seems incompatible to me. You want the opposite of the poster.

 

The post says there is no consultation but I think there is, as various interested parties have contributed to this debate and were invited by the government to do so. We don't know yet what the outcomes will be but I can see no way anybody wants Academisation forced or otherwise, but if you know different I'd like to see it.

The basic proposal on schools which Swinney announced was to hand control of budgets to schools and free them from Local Authority budgets. In effect financial independence for Schools. Removing them from local authority control in that regard.

 

You are right to say there is a consultation due to occur. However, that's not happened yet so the plans have not been tested against other opinions from the key professions and agencies affected.

 

At present, from what's released, it sounds similar to what has occured in England with academies which is schools run independently from the local council and handles it's own budgets. Personally, I don't think that is a good idea.

[Space Mackerel]

[emoji23][emoji23]

 

by weegingerdug

 

 

 

Poor Kezia. There she is, getting all ready to vote with the Tories because the Labour party hates the SNP even more, and then she gets into a bout of snarking with an SNP MSP who was slagging her off for supporting the party that's wreaking malicious havoc on the Scottish working class communities that used to vote Labour. And she got so caught up in the snarkback that she didn't vote with the rest of her MSPs and allowed the SNP to win. Oops.

 

That's Labour in Scotland's new autonomy for you, Kezia is so autonomous that she's even autonomous from her own party. She's seceded from the obligation to vote the way that she instructs her colleagues to vote. She's now trying to lay the blame on mechanical failure, and this would be true. It's a failure of the mechanical response of Labour to attack the SNP instead of the Tories they were elected to oppose. Maybe if Kezia wanted to regain the support of those working class voters who deserted Labour en masse in favour of the SNP she'd be a bit more successful if she got back to voting against the Tories.

 

Of course it's quite possible that the reason Kezia is seeking more autonomy for Labour in Scotland from UK Labour is because she wants more freedom of movement to ally with the Tories instead of opposing them. Opposing the Tories is a dangerously Corbynite idea after all. Once Labour in Scotland achieves its autonomy from UK Labour then Glesca Labour can cheerfully go into coalition with the Conservatives in order to maintain their failing grip on the city. Mind you, they'd cheerfully go into coalition with them anyway, and then tell us that it's only Labour that can protect us from the depredations of Thatcher's latest generation of hell-spawn.

 

Kezia won't admit that she just forgot to vote, because that speaks of a level of incomptence that makes Jackie Baillie seem numerate. This is a really serious issue, said Kezia speaking after the event, with that sad eyed face she does when she knows that she's in deep doo doo and can't handily blame it on the SNP. I did so vote, and there needs to be an investigation. That will usefully deflect criticism for a while, or at least for long enough for her pals in the Unionist media to have found something else to attack the SNP for. Maybe she could just save us all the bother and accuse the SNP of being responsible for her own screw ups. After all, that seems to be Murdo Fraser's tactic for the Tories. Murdo wants to know what the SNP are going to do to ensure a successful Brexit, which is a bit like a drunk driver demanding that the pedestrians he's just run over do more about road safety.

 

Anyway, being kind hearted souls, we should give Kezia the benefit of the doubt when she claims that it's not her fault that her vote wasn't registered. Perhaps the dog ate it. There was a fire, an earthquake, or a flood. It's entirely possible that her vote vanished due to the evil SNP vote stealing fairy, the same one that's been responsible for causing Labour votes to vanish across whole swathes of Scotland over the past few years.

 

After a proper investigation all those votes will be found lurking down the back of the washing machine with a pile of ooss and a solitary black sock with a hole in the big toe. The ooss will be nominated for election as the next Labour cooncillor for Lanarkshire North, but will be rejected because half the party is suspicious of anyone that's dangerously intellectual and the other half thought it was already serving as the Tory Secretary of State for Scotland.

 

Meanwhile the sock will be considerably more useful than anything Labour in Scotland has said or done over the past few years. Someone from the British establishment will use it as a puppet and it will become the next leader of Labour in Scotland after Kezia's had her turn. And no one will notice the difference. Because, let's be honest here, that's pretty much how the leader of the Scottish branch office has operated for as long as anyone can remember. The sock will of course be hailed by the Unionist media as the next great saviour of the Union and they'll earnestly inform us how the nats are secretly really terrified and those guffaws you hear are in fact nervous laughter.

 

The point being of course is that losing votes is not Labour's fault. It's not Kezia's fault that she forgot to vote. It's not the Labour party in Scotland's fault that their traditional voter base doesn't want to vote for them any more. Labour is the People's Party, and those who don't vote for them are obviously not the People. They're brainwashed drones who've fallen under the influence of vile cybernats. All Labour needs to do is to keep on doing what it's always done and eventually the infection will wear off and Scotland will get back to normal. Labour operates on the principle that a change of political views is a bit like a bad case of food poisoning. The voters will get over it eventually, once they get it out of their systems.

 

The problem is that Scotland changed during the independence referendum campaign. Labour didn't. The Scottish Tories didn't. They expected that once they'd won their No vote that things would go back to normal. But things won't go back to the way they were. Scotland has wised up. We're alive to the tricks and the lies and the promises that go unfulfilled. We're aware of the vows that aren't worth the newspaper they're printed on. It's not just the SNP that should be held to account. It's Kezia and Ruth and their pals too. Welcome to the new normal.

 

 

 

 

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[jambos are go!]

[emoji23][emoji23]

 

by weegingerdug

 

 

 

Poor Kezia. There she is, getting all ready to vote with the Tories because the Labour party hates the SNP even more, and then she gets into a bout of snarking with an SNP MSP who was slagging her off for supporting the party that's wreaking malicious havoc on the Scottish working class communities that used to vote Labour. And she got so caught up in the snarkback that she didn't vote with the rest of her MSPs and allowed the SNP to win. Oops.

 

That's Labour in Scotland's new autonomy for you, Kezia is so autonomous that she's even autonomous from her own party. She's seceded from the obligation to vote the way that she instructs her colleagues to vote. She's now trying to lay the blame on mechanical failure, and this would be true. It's a failure of the mechanical response of Labour to attack the SNP instead of the Tories they were elected to oppose. Maybe if Kezia wanted to regain the support of those working class voters who deserted Labour en masse in favour of the SNP she'd be a bit more successful if she got back to voting against the Tories.

 

Of course it's quite possible that the reason Kezia is seeking more autonomy for Labour in Scotland from UK Labour is because she wants more freedom of movement to ally with the Tories instead of opposing them. Opposing the Tories is a dangerously Corbynite idea after all. Once Labour in Scotland achieves its autonomy from UK Labour then Glesca Labour can cheerfully go into coalition with the Conservatives in order to maintain their failing grip on the city. Mind you, they'd cheerfully go into coalition with them anyway, and then tell us that it's only Labour that can protect us from the depredations of Thatcher's latest generation of hell-spawn.

 

Kezia won't admit that she just forgot to vote, because that speaks of a level of incomptence that makes Jackie Baillie seem numerate. This is a really serious issue, said Kezia speaking after the event, with that sad eyed face she does when she knows that she's in deep doo doo and can't handily blame it on the SNP. I did so vote, and there needs to be an investigation. That will usefully deflect criticism for a while, or at least for long enough for her pals in the Unionist media to have found something else to attack the SNP for. Maybe she could just save us all the bother and accuse the SNP of being responsible for her own screw ups. After all, that seems to be Murdo Fraser's tactic for the Tories. Murdo wants to know what the SNP are going to do to ensure a successful Brexit, which is a bit like a drunk driver demanding that the pedestrians he's just run over do more about road safety.

 

Anyway, being kind hearted souls, we should give Kezia the benefit of the doubt when she claims that it's not her fault that her vote wasn't registered. Perhaps the dog ate it. There was a fire, an earthquake, or a flood. It's entirely possible that her vote vanished due to the evil SNP vote stealing fairy, the same one that's been responsible for causing Labour votes to vanish across whole swathes of Scotland over the past few years.

 

After a proper investigation all those votes will be found lurking down the back of the washing machine with a pile of ooss and a solitary black sock with a hole in the big toe. The ooss will be nominated for election as the next Labour cooncillor for Lanarkshire North, but will be rejected because half the party is suspicious of anyone that's dangerously intellectual and the other half thought it was already serving as the Tory Secretary of State for Scotland.

 

Meanwhile the sock will be considerably more useful than anything Labour in Scotland has said or done over the past few years. Someone from the British establishment will use it as a puppet and it will become the next leader of Labour in Scotland after Kezia's had her turn. And no one will notice the difference. Because, let's be honest here, that's pretty much how the leader of the Scottish branch office has operated for as long as anyone can remember. The sock will of course be hailed by the Unionist media as the next great saviour of the Union and they'll earnestly inform us how the nats are secretly really terrified and those guffaws you hear are in fact nervous laughter.

 

The point being of course is that losing votes is not Labour's fault. It's not Kezia's fault that she forgot to vote. It's not the Labour party in Scotland's fault that their traditional voter base doesn't want to vote for them any more. Labour is the People's Party, and those who don't vote for them are obviously not the People. They're brainwashed drones who've fallen under the influence of vile cybernats. All Labour needs to do is to keep on doing what it's always done and eventually the infection will wear off and Scotland will get back to normal. Labour operates on the principle that a change of political views is a bit like a bad case of food poisoning. The voters will get over it eventually, once they get it out of their systems.

 

The problem is that Scotland changed during the independence referendum campaign. Labour didn't. The Scottish Tories didn't. They expected that once they'd won their No vote that things would go back to normal. But things won't go back to the way they were. Scotland has wised up. We're alive to the tricks and the lies and the promises that go unfulfilled. We're aware of the vows that aren't worth the newspaper they're printed on. It's not just the SNP that should be held to account. It's Kezia and Ruth and their pals too. Welcome to the new normal.

 

 

 

 

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What a load of tripe. The polls suggest that little or nothing has changed since the referendum. As Dennis Canavan said on TV the other night the problem with YES voters is that they think they are doing well because they only talk to each other. But some things have changed . The Tories are now the Official opposition and Ruth Davidson is how the most popular politician. The SNP have done a complete U turn on scrapping the Council Tax which is Wealthy friendly. They have also abandoned the hugely controversial ongoing assessment in Education and have adopted the Tory plans for Education funding being used in England. Useless and feeble governance of Scotland.

[Boris]

What a load of tripe. The polls suggest that little or nothing has changed since the referendum. As Dennis Canavan said on TV the other night the problem with YES voters is that they think they are doing well because they only talk to each other. But some things have changed . The Tories are now the Official opposition and Ruth Davidson is how the most popular politician. The SNP have done a complete U turn on scrapping the Council Tax which is Wealthy friendly. They have also abandoned the hugely controversial ongoing assessment in Education and have adopted the Tory plans for Education funding being used in England. Useless and feeble governance of Scotland.

 

So it's the SNP's fault that the Tories are the official opposition?  More to do with Labour meltdown than Tory popularity, imo.

[Gorgiewave]

So it's the SNP's fault that the Tories are the official opposition?  More to do with Labour meltdown than Tory popularity, imo.

One is sure that, as a good Tovarich, you'll be doing everything to help Labour to recover. Are you?

[jambos are go!]

So it's the SNP's fault that the Tories are the official opposition?  More to do with Labour meltdown than Tory popularity, imo.

Empty rhetoric that adds nothing to the debate.

 

I said it was evidence that since the referendum Tory fortunes have improved and that seem to contradict the claim in the article nothing had changed. At no time did I allocate fault although I would doubt the Tories took no votes from the Nats. Im a Labour stalwart and proud of it and will oppose Tories whether they are Tartan ( like Space Mackeral ) or Traditional ( like Ruth Davidson ).

[Boris]

One is sure that, as a good Tovarich, you'll be doing everything to help Labour to recover. Are you?

 

I happily voted Labour at the recent Holyrood elections, the candidate was very good.  I would also support Corbyn over the neo-liberals in his party.

 

Empty rhetoric that adds nothing to the debate.

 

I said it was evidence that since the referendum Tory fortunes have improved and that seem to contradict the claim in the article nothing had changed. At no time did I allocate fault although I would doubt the Tories took no votes from the Nats. Im a Labour stalwart and proud of it and will oppose Tories whether they are Tartan ( like Space Mackeral ) or Traditional ( like Ruth Davidson ).

 

Apologies, I must have misinterpreted your post.

 

Yes, the Tories being a distant second is change.  I suspect that Scottish politics has solidified since referendum.

 

The Tories are placing themselves as the Unionist option.  Shame on Labour voters who would vote for that lot solely for that reason.

 

I also respect that you are a Labour stalwart and you oppose Tories wherever they may be.  I assume that this includes within the labour party as well? 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Aye, because the average person with a brain in their head knows it's not a guaranteed victory.

 

Like I've said before, let the old codgers die off, the younger generation through and it's tatty bye UK.

 

 

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If the population of neds in Scotland keeps on increasing, you'll win an independence vote eventually