Brexit?

[Space Mackerel]

Donald Tusk saying once the UK have been offered the shite terms after pulling Article 50 it can change its mind.

 

 

 

 

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[Trapper John McIntyre]

Euroweekly News [emoji23]

 

Is this on C4 on Friday nights with that French dude surrounded by semi topless birds? [emoji23]

 

 

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It's all over the Twittersphere.

 

Still, its only the Spanish Prime Minister. Your lot should try and be nice to him.

[Space Mackerel]

It's all over the Twittersphere.

 

Still, its only the Spanish Prime Minister. Your lot should try and be nice to him.

Twitter? [emoji23][emoji23]

 

wee ginger dug nails yer pish

 

WITH Nicola Sturgeon on a charm offensive in Brussels this week, there?s been a fair bit of crowing from the usual suspects over the past couple of days that Scotland will be given short shrift by the EU and will be vetoed by Spain. It?s indyref groundhog day.

 

I lived in Spain for almost two decades, am fluent in Spanish and speak passable Catalan. The dug is a Spanish mutt, found abandoned and starving by an irrigation canal near the Valencian town of Elche. He?s a bilingual dog, and is disobedient in two languages which means he fits right in in Scotland.

 

I follow Spanish politics almost as closely as I follow Scottish politics. So this week has been interesting as we?ve seen the resurrection of some of the old scare stories from the 2014 independence referendum campaign, particularly those relating to the supposed Spanish veto on Scottish membership of the EU.

 

It?s no secret that Spanish PM Mariano Rajoy is no fan of independence movements, but what he most categorically didn?t say this week was that Spain would veto an application to join the EU made by an independent Scotland. Neither did he say that he?d block any attempt from a Scotland which had just voted for independence to negotiate to retain the UK?s membership of the EU.

 

Although the Unionist media has been eager to paint Rajoy?s words as bad news for Nicola Sturgeon, what he said was far worse news for those who are holding out for a federal solution, with a Scotland and Northern Ireland which are still part of the UK being inside the EU while the rest of the UK is outside it.

 

Rajoy said quite categorically that if the UK leaves the EU, then Scotland leaves with it. He has ruled out any possibility of Scotland managing to remain a part of the EU while also remaining a part of the UK. He also said that the EU cannot enter negotiations with a part of a state so that it can remain within the EU even though the state it is a part of has just voted to leave. But Rajoy said nothing at all about the European status of an independent Scotland.

 

Despite the fact that all this has been reported in the Unionist media as a snub for Sturgeon and a blow for the independence campaign, it is nothing of the sort. It?s extremely bad news for those in the Scottish Labour party and the Scottish LibDems who were hoping that Scotland could negotiate EU membership while avoiding another independence referendum.

 

That option lies dead in the water before it even got out of port. Rajoy torpedoed it.

 

Rajoy was notably silent on the possibility of Scotland holding a referendum and voting for independence before the Brexit occurs. In fact he ended his statement with the remark, ?Whatever happens in the future, that?s not for me to say,? a comment which wasn?t reported in the British press. The Brexit won?t occur for at least two years after the UK Government invokes Article 50 and commences negotiations to leave the EU: if Scotland holds an independence referendum before then and votes for independence, we?re in a whole different game. Already the Belgian press is reporting that the EU is willing to allow Scotland to take over the UK?s EU membership, as long as we go for independence before Brexit.

 

There?s a common assumption amongst Unionists that Rajoy would veto an independent Scotland in order to discourage the Catalans, but that?s all it is, an assumption. Their belief is based upon a profound misunderstanding of the Spanish political system.

 

Madrid?s opposition to a Catalan independence referendum is based upon a clause in the Spanish constitution which states that Spain is ?una e indivisible?, one and indivisible, and that the territory of the Spanish state is the patrimony of all of the people of Spain. Madrid claims a Catalan independence referendum would be unconstitutional, and refuses to countenance one. For a similar reason Spain refuses to recognise the independence of Kosovo, which Serbia claims is unconstitutional according to the Serbian constitution.

 

However, none of this applies to Scottish independence. Scottish independence, when it comes, will be entirely legal and constitutional. It will be recognised by the Westminster Parliament. That means that Spain will not have a problem with it and will have no grounds to veto Scottish membership of the EU. Back in February 2014, Spanish foreign minister Jos?-Manuel Garc?a-Margallo was asked about Spain?s response to Scottish independence, and insisted that the two situations were ?fundamentally different?. Pressed on the issue, he replied: ?If Britain?s constitutional order allows ? and it seems that it does allow ? Scotland to choose independence, we have nothing to say about this.?

 

Later that summer, as the independence referendum campaign was under way, Mariano Rajoy was explicitly asked during an interview with El Pais newspaper whether he would veto Scottish membership of the EU. Despite being asked three times, Rajoy refused to answer. The reason he refused to answer is because he didn?t want to encourage the Scottish independence campaign by telling the truth and saying no, but if he had lied and said yes he?d have enraged public opinion in Catalonia because he?d just have given them evidence that Spain?s opposition to Catalan independence was nothing to do with the Spanish constitution after all.

 

There was no real possibility of a Spanish veto back in 2014, and there?s even less of a possibility now. If Scotland votes for independence before the Brexit occurs, we will be able to negotiate with the EU to remain in the EU as a continuing member in exactly the same way that England, Wales and Northern Ireland proposed to continue in the EU if Scotland had voted for independence in 2014. Spain would not oppose that, as it is a radically different set of circumstances to Catalonia. The possibility of a Spanish veto doesn?t even arise.

 

This week?s statement from the viciously unionist Spanish PM has made Scottish independence more likely, not less likely.

 

 

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[jake]

It's all over the Twittersphere.

 

Still, its only the Spanish Prime Minister. Your lot should try and be nice to him.

 

I suspect that most of the EU nations will want their buisiness interests with the UK looked after .

And i doubt very much you will be flung out or refused entry both ways .

Unless you are a criminal or not willing to contribute.

[CavySlaveJambo]

I suspect that most of the EU nations will want their buisiness interests with the UK looked after .

 

And i doubt very much you will be flung out or refused entry both ways .

Unless you are a criminal or not willing to contribute.

 

No you move while the UK is still in the EU and you are OK. After that you'd be classed as an economic migrant, and it will remove the retiree's moving to Southern Europe. 

Also heard from an expat living within the EU that Spain is going to hold UK citizens living in Spain to ransom over Gibraltar. 

 

As for the Business interests - the only way that will happen is Britian stays in OR it is a soft brexit. From what Donald Tusk is saying that isn't going to happen. The EU27 have been holding talks on this since June. 

[jake]

No you move while the UK is still in the EU and you are OK. After that you'd be classed as an economic migrant, and it will remove the retiree's moving to Southern Europe.

Also heard from an expat living within the EU that Spain is going to hold UK citizens living in Spain to ransom over Gib.

 

As for the Business interests - the only way that will happen is Britian stays in OR it is a soft brexit. From what Donald Tusk is saying that isn't going to happen. The EU27 have been holding talks on this since June.

 

Thats not what the Spanish prime minister said.

Id expect Tusk to say these things in his EU role.

But would a polish government play hardball with the UK over worker migration.

Cant see it.

Would Germany with its export driven economy play hardball.

Cant see it.

The french are at this moment having their own troubles with migration.

The Italian financial mess is teetering on bankruptcy and would not pick trade wars with anyone.

[Thunderstruck]

It seems "Wee Ginger Dug" still hasn't been given his Worm Tablets.

[Space Mackerel]

It seems "Wee Ginger Dug" still hasn't been given his Worm Tablets.

I'd rather listen to someones point of view who has lived in Spain for 20 years

 

 

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[jake]

I'd rather listen to someones point of view who has lived in Spain for 20 years

 

 

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Like the Spanish prime minister

[Space Mackerel]

Like the Spanish prime minister

Why would the Spanish Prime minister who's country is in the EU not want another country joining the EU?

 

 

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[Francis Albert]

Why would the Spanish Prime minister who's country is in the EU not want another country joining the EU?

 

 

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Because the Spanish Prime Minister doesn't want the Spanish nation to be broken up by Catalan and Basque separatists,

 

There is a breathtaking naivety about the Natiionalist view that Spain, France, Belgium, Italy etc  will welcome an independent Scotland to the EU.

 

Get real.

[Space Mackerel]

Because the Spanish Prime Minister doesn't want the Spanish nation to be broken up by Catalan and Basque separatists,

 

There is a breathtaking naivety about the Natiionalist view that Spain, France, Belgium, Italy etc will welcome an independent Scotland to the EU.

 

Get real.

So when push comes to shove, us who want an independent Scotland are going to heed the Spanish PM?

 

Get real.

 

You honestly think Scotland would be denied a place after everything that's come out of Brussels since Brexit?

 

 

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[JamboX2]

Once again it wasnt ripped from you.

 

If you like being Scottish British and European.

Ive got news you still are.

Are you suggesting that because the country voted out of a corrupt and an increasingly undemocratic organisation that you lose the right to be classed as a European.

The brexit means you are not part of a club.

It does in fact mean I am no longer a European citizen. I will lose the rights of European citizenship. The freedom to work in any EU nation without the need for permits and visas. I will lose my rights to travel across the EU unfettered. I will lose my economic rights and my political rights in relation to the EU. My equality of rights with other European citizens will go.

 

Your argument is as stupid, and I mean that because I'm not talking about how I feel but my legal status, as the argument used by Yes Scotland in 2014 that by virtue of voting yes I would still be British. But I wouldn't be a citizen with the rights of that identity. I would merely have an identity, no longer the actual tangible elements of identity, merely that of geographical association.

 

I don't want that. I want the rights, protections and benefits that go with it.

 

Sadly, we are where we are. We are soon to leave the worlds biggest free market trading bloc. The diplomatic institution which gave us greater clout with America and China and Russia. Of an alliance of states which sought to harmonise their employment protections, economic policies and environmental safeguards to ensure a better and more prosperous future for all.

 

I accept the decision. But don't you dare tell me I can't feel pissed off because our economy is teetering on the brink, that both the UK and Scottish governments are using this to advance divisive agendas which equally disregard mandates and don't tell me I'm not losing something very major and important in my life because I am. I'm not just European or British or Scottish because I live in the northern part of on an island off a continental land mass. I am those things because I am a legal citizen of those places. By opting to leave the EU, that "club", I lose my rights as a citizen. And frankly, the fact is many people were sold a pup for me to have lost those rights and benefits.

 

You do realise that the EU is a supranational body, therefore it draws its power from the member states. It's decisions and thhe direction it takes happens with the consent of the Council of Ministers (made up of ministers from the nation states) and he European Parliament. A parliament we elect members to. The Commission is at the whim of our political leaders. If you've a problem with how bad this country is getting or what the EU is up to. Blame the UK government. Don't blame the EU. That's just petty nationalism.

[JamboX2]

Twitter? [emoji23][emoji23]

 

wee ginger dug nails yer pish

 

WITH Nicola Sturgeon on a charm offensive in Brussels this week, there?s been a fair bit of crowing from the usual suspects over the past couple of days that Scotland will be given short shrift by the EU and will be vetoed by Spain. It?s indyref groundhog day.

 

I lived in Spain for almost two decades, am fluent in Spanish and speak passable Catalan. The dug is a Spanish mutt, found abandoned and starving by an irrigation canal near the Valencian town of Elche. He?s a bilingual dog, and is disobedient in two languages which means he fits right in in Scotland.

 

I follow Spanish politics almost as closely as I follow Scottish politics. So this week has been interesting as we?ve seen the resurrection of some of the old scare stories from the 2014 independence referendum campaign, particularly those relating to the supposed Spanish veto on Scottish membership of the EU.

 

It?s no secret that Spanish PM Mariano Rajoy is no fan of independence movements, but what he most categorically didn?t say this week was that Spain would veto an application to join the EU made by an independent Scotland. Neither did he say that he?d block any attempt from a Scotland which had just voted for independence to negotiate to retain the UK?s membership of the EU.

 

Although the Unionist media has been eager to paint Rajoy?s words as bad news for Nicola Sturgeon, what he said was far worse news for those who are holding out for a federal solution, with a Scotland and Northern Ireland which are still part of the UK being inside the EU while the rest of the UK is outside it.

 

Rajoy said quite categorically that if the UK leaves the EU, then Scotland leaves with it. He has ruled out any possibility of Scotland managing to remain a part of the EU while also remaining a part of the UK. He also said that the EU cannot enter negotiations with a part of a state so that it can remain within the EU even though the state it is a part of has just voted to leave. But Rajoy said nothing at all about the European status of an independent Scotland.

 

Despite the fact that all this has been reported in the Unionist media as a snub for Sturgeon and a blow for the independence campaign, it is nothing of the sort. It?s extremely bad news for those in the Scottish Labour party and the Scottish LibDems who were hoping that Scotland could negotiate EU membership while avoiding another independence referendum.

 

That option lies dead in the water before it even got out of port. Rajoy torpedoed it.

 

Rajoy was notably silent on the possibility of Scotland holding a referendum and voting for independence before the Brexit occurs. In fact he ended his statement with the remark, ?Whatever happens in the future, that?s not for me to say,? a comment which wasn?t reported in the British press. The Brexit won?t occur for at least two years after the UK Government invokes Article 50 and commences negotiations to leave the EU: if Scotland holds an independence referendum before then and votes for independence, we?re in a whole different game. Already the Belgian press is reporting that the EU is willing to allow Scotland to take over the UK?s EU membership, as long as we go for independence before Brexit.

 

There?s a common assumption amongst Unionists that Rajoy would veto an independent Scotland in order to discourage the Catalans, but that?s all it is, an assumption. Their belief is based upon a profound misunderstanding of the Spanish political system.

 

Madrid?s opposition to a Catalan independence referendum is based upon a clause in the Spanish constitution which states that Spain is ?una e indivisible?, one and indivisible, and that the territory of the Spanish state is the patrimony of all of the people of Spain. Madrid claims a Catalan independence referendum would be unconstitutional, and refuses to countenance one. For a similar reason Spain refuses to recognise the independence of Kosovo, which Serbia claims is unconstitutional according to the Serbian constitution.

 

However, none of this applies to Scottish independence. Scottish independence, when it comes, will be entirely legal and constitutional. It will be recognised by the Westminster Parliament. That means that Spain will not have a problem with it and will have no grounds to veto Scottish membership of the EU. Back in February 2014, Spanish foreign minister Jos?-Manuel Garc?a-Margallo was asked about Spain?s response to Scottish independence, and insisted that the two situations were ?fundamentally different?. Pressed on the issue, he replied: ?If Britain?s constitutional order allows ? and it seems that it does allow ? Scotland to choose independence, we have nothing to say about this.?

 

Later that summer, as the independence referendum campaign was under way, Mariano Rajoy was explicitly asked during an interview with El Pais newspaper whether he would veto Scottish membership of the EU. Despite being asked three times, Rajoy refused to answer. The reason he refused to answer is because he didn?t want to encourage the Scottish independence campaign by telling the truth and saying no, but if he had lied and said yes he?d have enraged public opinion in Catalonia because he?d just have given them evidence that Spain?s opposition to Catalan independence was nothing to do with the Spanish constitution after all.

 

There was no real possibility of a Spanish veto back in 2014, and there?s even less of a possibility now. If Scotland votes for independence before the Brexit occurs, we will be able to negotiate with the EU to remain in the EU as a continuing member in exactly the same way that England, Wales and Northern Ireland proposed to continue in the EU if Scotland had voted for independence in 2014. Spain would not oppose that, as it is a radically different set of circumstances to Catalonia. The possibility of a Spanish veto doesn?t even arise.

 

This week?s statement from the viciously unionist Spanish PM has made Scottish independence more likely, not less likely.

 

 

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Your February 2014 quote is based on the fact that Westminster legislated to allow a referendum to happen. Therefore it was constitutional. Under the Act of Union 1707 and the Scotland Act 1998, power over the constitutional arrangements of the U.K. lies with Westminster, not Holyrood. At present, Sturgeon is proposing a Bill to allow a referendum without Westminster's consent. In order for a legal and "binding" referendum she must get a legislative consent motion (s.30 Agreeement) to hold one. And I quote binding like that because in our system no referendum is politically or legally binding because we live in a representative democracy.

 

So at present, we have no legality for the referendum and so any one which is held is not in line with constitutional practice in thhe UK and is therefore illegal. So, if we play the theory out Spain would not follow the line of supporting a Scottish application to the EU.

 

Equally, find it absurd for Sturgeon to argue that wer are better Europeans than the rUK and then demand all British opt-outs. We are more European, but up yours Delors we want what the UK had before, stuff the euro and Schengen.

[JamboX2]

Then don't define yourself existentially - you identify yourself how you want to be identified.

I'm annoyed I have lost my rights as a European citizen. Identity is meaningless in this context without the legal rights and benefits which go with it.

 

I identity myself as a Jambo. If they were wound up, I'd be pretty annoyed.

[JamboX2]

Your EU citezenship was not stolen.

You live in a country which decided to hold a referendum on its future.

You will lose your EU citezenship because of democracy.

And i doubt very much that you wouldnt be able to live or work freely in the EU as long as you were contributing to the country and not a criminal why would you be.

Scaremongering talk that has no basis in reality

It's not the case that he can't do that. He can. He can go to Canada, America, China, Taiwan, India and Outer Mongolia to work if he wants. That's not the issue. The issue is he has no automatic rights to move to those places to work. He would need to apply for visas, work permits and residency to do so. All of which cost and are subject to strict rules and regulations.

 

As an EU citizen as long as he had work he had the right to travel and work in another part of the EU without restriction. That is a legal right he will no longer have. Do you not see the quantifiable difference in those two positions? How much more detrimental this all is to us? We are losing hard fought and won rights.

[JamboX2]

Why? Do you like what is happening now?

No. I think what I am seeing is my world torn apart and have borders erected where there were none before in the name of nationalism. I have no time for that.

 

Frankly, the economy is on the verge of some major hardship. I find it hard to believe independence will make that better for me or people my age who are already struggling with rents, with house prices, with the cost of living and with wages and debt. I fear for my livelihood over Brexit and I fear for it also over independence.

[JamboX2]

Can you not just accept that Labour failed Scotland for 60 years and now there's a will in the nation for a new kind of politics?

 

And last I heard, all Greens want an independent Scotland, they nearly got my 2nd vote.

 

 

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What new politics? Last I checked we still have the same adversarial system of politics we had before 2007. We still have a government making cuts to public services and we still have a government looking to divide to rule and playing to its own backers rather than trying to bring us together to face the challenges of the next 5 years.

 

I take it you are excluding the NHS, equal pay, maternity and paternity leave, child tax credit, child benefits, schools for the future, record NHS investment, ending tuition fees in Scotland, free tv licenses for the elderly, expansion of child care, winter fuel allowance, minimum wage, employment tribunals, slum clearances, infrastructure spending, pension credit, free bus passes, smoking ban, land reform, proportional representation at local government level and in Scotland, devolution, free personal care for the elderly, civil partnerships and things like the Equality Act and the Human Rights Act when you say failed Scotland in 60 years aye? Fair enough, don't vote for them and every party has their day, but don't belittle substantial achievements which have been made by Labour in the past.

 

It's time the SNP stopped talking big and started doing big things in my view. If they were as bold as the Greens we might be independent rather than their third way timidity.

[blairdin]

Whether you are an SNP voter or not, and regardless of your thoughts on Independence, Sturgeon has been handed a potential mandate for Indyref 2.

 

During the first Indy ref the remain campaign made a big deal about how voting with them was the only way to guarantee we stayed in the EU with access to the single market. I accept that wasn't a deal breaker for all, but it was for some. Two years on and the goalposts have been moved.

 

Sturgeon will bring forward her bill. But right now that is rhetoric, the ball is in the Court of the Westminster government to negotiate a Brexit deal with concessions that reflect the more pro European view up here. They might surprise us. I just hope the UK isn't in the shitter economically by the time the negotiations are through.

[Gorgiewave]

So when push comes to shove, us who want an independent Scotland are going to heed the Spanish PM?

 

Get real.

 

You honestly think Scotland would be denied a place after everything that's come out of Brussels since Brexit?

 

 

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Yes. Do you know anything about Spain? Do you know how much almost the entire political class wants to prevent Catalan independence, which would be more likely if they could join the EU.

 

Spain will veto. Ajo y agua.

[deesidejambo]

Yes. Do you know anything about Spain? Do you know how much almost the entire political class wants to prevent Catalan independence, which would be more likely if they could join the EU.

 

Spain will veto. Ajo y agua.

Garlic and water?

 

Anyway it's all irrelevant. Nicola will bottle it until the polls show a clear majority would vote yes. This won't happen but she will be under more and more pressure from her own halfwits to stop the uncertainty and name a date.

 

And for the currency question to get in the EU it will have to be the Euro.

[aussieh]

Garlic and water?

 

Anyway it's all irrelevant. Nicola will bottle it until the polls show a clear majority would vote yes. This won't happen but she will be under more and more pressure from her own halfwits to stop the uncertainty and name a date.

 

And for the currency question to get in the EU it will have to be the Euro.

As opposed to what, the English pound?

[deesidejambo]

As opposed to what, the English pound?

Yup.  If its the pound then Scotland is tied to the rUK Central Bank, so that wont happen.

 

Scotland wont create its own Central Bank unless it wants to stay out of Europe also.

 

EU wont allow newcomers in unless they use the Euro.

 

So its the Euro

[Boris]

Whether you are an SNP voter or not, and regardless of your thoughts on Independence, Sturgeon has been handed a potential mandate for Indyref 2.

 

During the first Indy ref the remain campaign made a big deal about how voting with them was the only way to guarantee we stayed in the EU with access to the single market. I accept that wasn't a deal breaker for all, but it was for some. Two years on and the goalposts have been moved.

 

Sturgeon will bring forward her bill. But right now that is rhetoric, the ball is in the Court of the Westminster government to negotiate a Brexit deal with concessions that reflect the more pro European view up here. They might surprise us. I just hope the UK isn't in the shitter economically by the time the negotiations are through.

 

This.

 

All the frothing at the mouth from both sides as if a referendum is imminent.  

 

Sturgeon has played a good political hand here that might just benefit the whole of the UK, not just Scotland.  How magnanimous of her!

[Boris]

Yup.  If its the pound then Scotland is tied to the rUK Central Bank, so that wont happen.

 

Scotland wont create its own Central Bank unless it wants to stay out of Europe also.

 

EU wont allow newcomers in unless they use the Euro.

 

So its the Euro

 

Not strictly true but you bash on.

[Gorgiewave]

Garlic and water?

 

Anyway it's all irrelevant. Nicola will bottle it until the polls show a clear majority would vote yes. This won't happen but she will be under more and more pressure from her own halfwits to stop the uncertainty and name a date.

 

And for the currency question to get in the EU it will have to be the Euro.

An abbreviation of a joderse y a aguantarse, i.e., like it or lump it / grin and bear it.

[jack D and coke]

Not strictly true but you bash on.

It's not even remotely true but aye let them bash on.

 

 

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[Space Mackerel]

Yes. Do you know anything about Spain? Do you know how much almost the entire political class wants to prevent Catalan independence, which would be more likely if they could join the EU.

 

Spain will veto. Ajo y agua.

 

You really really do think Spain will not be lent on by the other 26 nations to let Scotland in?

You have been reading what all the head honchos of the EU have been saying recently?

[Ibrahim Tall]

You really really do think Spain will not be lent on by the other 26 nations to let Scotland in?

You have been reading what all the head honchos of the EU have been saying recently?

The precident for Catalonia would also already have been set by Scottish 'independence', it later joining the EU later would be irrelevant.

Opposing the actual break up has logic, spiteing a foreign country afterwards doesn't.

[aussieh]

Yup. If its the pound then Scotland is tied to the rUK Central Bank, so that wont happen.

 

Scotland wont create its own Central Bank unless it wants to stay out of Europe also.

 

EU wont allow newcomers in unless they use the Euro.

 

So its the Euro

That's not what I meant. It seems that everything concerning Scottish independence, the EU or Eurozone is unacceptable/pish. But everything UK/British/English is fine. Surely if currency union works it works, it can't be rules for one and rules fir the other. Being part of the UK and having the pound comes with terms from WM and the B.O.E, just like the Eurozone. If the UK can trade freely and be part of the single market or not, so can Scotland. But if you think it needs the UK to trade, would it not be even better being part of the EU.

 

As for the Euro, everybody has to accept it sometime. But just like the UK or Sweden, that could be never. But hey, keep telling folk how useless we are and how we couldn't possibly set up a bank(B.O.E, I wonder who thought of that), currency or country, we just need other countries to run us.

Oh, see this EU thingy, could you please tell me when Scotland ever negotiated terms?." Never", you say. Well let's see how we do, WHEN WE do.(Either in, or out of the EU. As this has never happened and its all about who has the best argument.

 

 

Anyway, not long now until my Indyref 2018 thread becomes unlocked.

 

 

Mintit

[Nookie Bear]

That's not what I meant. It seems that everything concerning Scottish independence, the EU or Eurozone is unacceptable/pish. But everything UK/British/English is fine. Surely if currency union works it works, it can't be rules for one and rules fir the other. Being part of the UK and having the pound comes with terms from WM and the B.O.E, just like the Eurozone. If the UK can trade freely and be part of the single market or not, so can Scotland. But if you think it needs the UK to trade, would it not be even better being part of the EU.

 

As for the Euro, everybody has to accept it sometime. But just like the UK or Sweden, that could be never. But hey, keep telling folk how useless we are and how we couldn't possibly set up a bank(B.O.E, I wonder who thought of that), currency or country, we just need other countries to run us.

Oh, see this EU thingy, could you please tell me when Scotland ever negotiated terms?." Never", you say. Well let's see how we do, WHEN WE do.(Either in, or out of the EU. As this has never happened and its all about who has the best argument.

 

 

Anyway, not long now until my Indyref 2018 thread becomes unlocked.

 

 

Mintit

 

[aussieh]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just saying.

[aussieh]

Yes. Do you know anything about Spain? Do you know how much almost the entire political class wants to prevent Catalan independence, which would be more likely if they could join the EU.

 

Spain will veto. Ajo y agua.

Why did they not veto other recently independent Countries from joining the EU. Just Scotland,aye?????????????.

[jack D and coke]

Why did they not veto other recently independent Countries from joining the EU. Just Scotland,aye?????????????.

Tbh I started from a pretty middling position before the last indyref but posters like GW with their constant rubbishing of everything about Scotland wind me up so much I became very pro Indy.

I can feel my juices rising again[emoji1]

 

 

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[Nookie Bear]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just saying.

 

Double or Quits ?

[aussieh]

Double or Quits ?

Best of 21

 

[Gorgiewave]

Why did they not veto other recently independent Countries from joining the EU. Just Scotland,aye?????????????.

They hadn't broken up functioning states.

 

They haven't recognised Kosovo because they don't want countries broken up.

 

Outside of the UK, nobody gives the slightese shit about Scotland. I'm sure you were exultant at the Czechs and Slovaks finally getting to express their marginally different national identities in their barely distinguishable languages. Yet...nobody cares. Scotland will be off the pages of the world's newspapers by the evening of the day on which it becomes independent, if ever.

[aussieh]

Tbh I started from a pretty middling position before the last indyref but posters like GW with their constant rubbishing of everything about Scotland wind me up so much I became very pro Indy.

I can feel my juices rising again[emoji1]

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If they(The SNP) relax until post brexit, cover all bases, with detailed plans and honesty. They'll do just fine. Better together are finished(Can't see Labour team with the Tories ever again, tbh)and so is their EU membership arguments. Just chill Nicola, don't rush people.

[aussieh]

They hadn't broken up functioning states.

 

They haven't recognised Kosovo because they don't want countries broken up.

 

Outside of the UK, nobody gives the slightese shit about Scotland. I'm sure you were exultant at the Czechs and Slovaks finally getting to express their marginally different national identities in their barely distinguishable languages. Yet...nobody cares. Scotland will be off the pages of the world's newspapers by the evening of the day on which it becomes independent, if ever.

That suits me fine, no need for vanity GB.

 

Croatia? Estonia? Latvia? Lithuanian? Veto from Spain? No.

[aussieh]

They hadn't broken up functioning states.

 

They haven't recognised Kosovo because they don't want countries broken up.

 

Outside of the UK, nobody gives the slightese shit about Scotland. I'm sure you were exultant at the Czechs and Slovaks finally getting to express their marginally different national identities in their barely distinguishable languages. Yet...nobody cares. Scotland will be off the pages of the world's newspapers by the evening of the day on which it becomes independent, if ever.

Oh Nooooooooooo!!!!!!

Scotland won't be in the papers, better vote Nooooooooooooooo

[Gorgiewave]

You really really do think Spain will not be lent on by the other 26 nations to let Scotland in?

You have been reading what all the head honchos of the EU have been saying recently?

Why would they give the slightest shit about Scotland? Scotland is a tiny part of the EU as it stands, about 1%.

 

Regions and substate units in the EU whose population is more than twice that of Scotland's:

 

North-Rhine Westphalia

Bavaria

Baden-W?rttemburg

?le de France

 

More than Scotland's but not more than twice Scotland's:

 

Andalusia

Catalonia

Madrid Region

Lower Saxony

Hesse

Auvergne-Rh?ne-Alpes

Hauts-de-France

New Aquitaine

Occitania

Grand Est

Lombardy

Lazio

Campania

 

Countries in the EU with a larger population than the UK:

 

Germany.

[aussieh]

No more indyref chat fae me, it's the brexit thread.

 

Unless...

[Gorgiewave]

No more indyref chat fae me, it's the brexit thread.

 

Unless...

 

The Dear Leader is hanging herself by combining them.

[deesidejambo]

Not strictly true but you bash on.

If what I say is not true then what will be the currency?

[Francis Albert]

So when push comes to shove, us who want an independent Scotland are going to heed the Spanish PM?

 

Get real.

 

You honestly think Scotland would be denied a place after everything that's come out of Brussels since Brexit?

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Of course an independent Scotland would eventually gain membership (assuming it met the various criteria for membership such as size of deficit).

 

But as Sturgeon found out on her visit to European governments immediately after the Brexit vote, they aren't going to bend over backwards to make it easy. There is no question of parallel negotiation of Brexit and Scentry. Scotland will leave as part of the UK and will have to apply for membership after independence. It took over 10 years for the Czech Republic and Slovakia to join the EU from when they became independent. I see no reason why the timetable for Scotland would be any shorter.

 

Brexit makes Scottish independence much more difficult IMO and raises rafts of new questions which will be at least as difficult to answer during a new Indyref campaign as the currency question was in the last. 

[Boris]

If what I say is not true then what will be the currency?

 

My guess would be a new Scottish currency.

 

The euro would be adopted along the Swedish model.

[Boris]

Of course an independent Scotland would eventually gain membership (assuming it met the various criteria for membership such as size of deficit).

 

But as Sturgeon found out on her visit to European governments immediately after the Brexit vote, they aren't going to bend over backwards to make it easy. There is no question of parallel negotiation of Brexit and Scentry. Scotland will leave as part of the UK and will have to apply for membership after independence. It took over 10 years for the Czech Republic and Slovakia to join the EU from when they became independent. I see no reason why the timetable for Scotland would be any shorter.

 

Brexit makes Scottish independence much more difficult IMO and raises rafts of new questions which will be at least as difficult to answer during a new Indyref campaign as the currency question was in the last. 

 

So an existing EU member wants to stay in the EU, and you compare that to a former Warsaw Pact nation?

[Francis Albert]

So an existing EU member wants to stay in the EU, and you compare that to a former Warsaw Pact nation?

Scotland is not an existing member of the EU.

[Seymour M Hersh]

Scotland is not an existing member of the EU.

 

The Natz just can't accept this. 

[Boris]

Scotland is not an existing member of the EU.

 

Arguably it is, via it's UK membership (albeit that would appear to be on a clock).

 

Perhaps in any upcoming indy ref (as I posted previously I think it is a big IF) then there will be, one would imagine, greater clarity from the EU, given there is no rUK to upset?