Celtic & Sevco bid to join English league. Again. (merged)

[Hendricks]

Looking at teams like Copenhagen, Fc Basel, Legia Warsaw and Brugge in the CL group stages should end any thought of us following the OF to England. That could be us in an OF-free Scottish league!

 

"Small" teams in "small" leagues in "small" countries relatively speaking (especially Copenhagen and Basel). None of those teams or leagues have great global appeal for TV or sponsorship. I bet none of us can name any of their players.

 

I can't believe any Hearts fan would rather mess around in the lower English leagues than stay in Scotland and have a genuinely realistic target of winning a title and getting into the CL.

 

The idea that playing lower league English league football is somehow more "ambitious" than aiming for the CL group stages is absurd.

Whilst you are entitled to your opinion many of your points are utter nonsense. This possibly being chief amongst them. You clearly have no idea whatsoever as to the revenue of some of the clubs you have claimed we could be like in an Old Firm free Scottish League!! The likes of Legia and Basel have revenue many times that of ours just now let alone when we are getting considerably less than the pittance we do now if Rantic depart. It is completely delusional to think there will be any money in Scottish football and even if we retain a Champions League place absolutely no chance any team, including Hearts will have players good enough (given hee haw money for wages) to win several qualifiers. Christ, we can't even beat some humpty side from Malta just now with the income we do have!

 

If Rantic leave us behind we may win some Scottish titles though even that's far from certain as they would almost definitely place a Colt side in the league but Scottish football will be dead in the water. It will be totally unattractive to sponsors of any note and TV stations with any clout or money. If it's a pishy wee league with part time teams and Hearts both struggling to attract players and retain youngsters you are after than staying is definitely the way to go.

[Nookie Bear]

Whilst you are entitled to your opinion many of your points are utter nonsense. This possibly being chief amongst them. You clearly have no idea whatsoever as to the revenue of some of the clubs you have claimed we could be like in an Old Firm free Scottish League!! The likes of Legia and Basel have revenue many times that of ours just now let alone when we are getting considerably less than the pittance we do now if Rantic depart. It is completely delusional to think there will be any money in Scottish football and even if we retain a Champions League place absolutely no chance any team, including Hearts will have players good enough (given hee haw money for wages) to win several qualifiers. Christ, we can't even beat some hungry side from Malta just now with the income we do have!

If Rantic leave us behind we may win some Scottish titles though even that's far from certain as they would almost definitely place a Colt side in the league but Scottish football will be dead in the water. It will be totally unattractive to sponsors of any note and TV stations with any clout or money. If it's a pishy wee league with part time teams and Hearts both struggling to attract players and retain youngsters you are after than staying is definitely the way to go.

Not that is is happening but there would be no chance of a Colt side being allowed across the border.

 

I agree with the rest. Take the o,d firm out and two-thirds of the football viewing public leave with it. We will be sponsored by diddy companies at best.

[trotter]

Whilst you are entitled to your opinion many of your points are utter nonsense. This possibly being chief amongst them. You clearly have no idea whatsoever as to the revenue of some of the clubs you have claimed we could be like in an Old Firm free Scottish League!! The likes of Legia and Basel have revenue many times that of ours just now let alone when we are getting considerably less than the pittance we do now if Rantic depart. It is completely delusional to think there will be any money in Scottish football and even if we retain a Champions League place absolutely no chance any team, including Hearts will have players good enough (given hee haw money for wages) to win several qualifiers. Christ, we can't even beat some hungry side from Malta just now with the income we do have!

 

If Rantic leave us behind we may win some Scottish titles though even that's far from certain as they would almost definitely place a Colt side in the league but Scottish football will be dead in the water. It will be totally unattractive to sponsors of any note and TV stations with any clout or money. If it's a pishy wee league with part time teams and Hearts both struggling to attract players and retain youngsters you are after than staying is definitely the way to go.

 

And in a similar vein this point of yours is also utter nonsense. Don't I recall that during the time Rangers were gone, pretty much all SPL average attendances went up? Although i admit Celtic's went down, but that really isn't the point. We get almost no money from TV revenue either, so why would the lack of Rantic really change anything there? 

 

My personal opinion is that without Rantic the league will become more attractive to supporters who have traditionally avoided games due to the antics of their fans, and the fact that there isn't really a hope of winning the league with them both in it. I would argue that the increase in attendances would bring an increase in revenue to clubs who can then use that to develop players and make the league more exciting, creating more interest, creating more fans, more revenue, etc, etc.

[Hendricks]

Not that is is happening but there would be no chance of a Colt side being allowed across the border.

 

I agree with the rest. Take the o,d firm out and two-thirds of the football viewing public leave with it. We will be sponsored by diddy companies at best.

 

The Colt side would be in our league, not down south. I don't believe for one second that the powers that be (including those running clubs like ours) in Scotland would turn down Rantic for that. They would hope it meant that there would be a modicum of interest from TV and indeed that the games might attract some of their fans i.e. bring in income that will be absolutely essential to the survival of clubs poorer than ours. In that scenario Hearts (and Aberdeen, Hibs etc) would be left playing against Rantic reserve sides in a league that was completely irrelevant.

[Hendricks]

And in a similar vein this point of yours is also utter nonsense. Don't I recall that during the time Rangers were gone, pretty much all SPL average attendances went up? Although i admit Celtic's went down, but that really isn't the point. We get almost no money from TV revenue either, so why would the lack of Rantic really change anything there?

 

My personal opinion is that without Rantic the league will become more attractive to supporters who have traditionally avoided games due to the antics of their fans, and the fact that there isn't really a hope of winning the league with them both in it. I would argue that the increase in attendances would bring an increase in revenue to clubs who can then use that to develop players and make the league more exciting, creating more interest, creating more fans, more revenue, etc, etc.

Sorry but you are completely deluded. Celtic were still part of the 'big' league and everyone knew it was only a matter of time before Rangers (and indeed Hearts) came back into the SPL. Hearts crowds were good during that period because we were winning games and a league with BOTH Hibs and Rangers IN IT. If you think we get no money from TV now I can only imagine what you will think when it comes to renewing any contact with them gone. BBC Scotland may have something in their budget for us but that will be about it. As for attracting more supporters with Rangers and Celtic out of the league that is wishful thinking at best. There may be an immediate spike to see Hearts win an SPL title or two but many will soon realize how hollow that is without much competition. The standard of the league and the players in it will drop even further than it has already as there simply won't be the wages to attract players and it will be all the more difficult to retain any promising youngsters. Each to their own though, if you want a league akin to the Welsh or Irish then thats what we will get.

[trotter]

Sorry but you are completely deluded. Celtic were still part of the 'big' league and everyone knew it was only a matter of time before Rangers (and indeed Hearts) came back into the SPL. Hearts crowds were good during that period because we were winning games and a league with BOTH Hibs and Rangers IN IT. If you think we get no money from TV now I can only imagine what you will think when it comes to renewing any contact with them gone. BBC Scotland may have something in their budget for us but that will be about it. As for attracting more supporters with Rangers and Celtic out of the league that is wishful thinking at best. There may be an immediate spike to see Hearts win an SPL title or two but many will soon realize how hollow that is without much competition. The standard of the league and the players in it will drop even further than it has already as there simply won't be the wages to attract players and it will be all the more difficult to retain any promising youngsters. Each to their own though, if you want a league akin to the Welsh or Irish then thats what we will get.

 

Why do you assume that there will be no competition? We certainly don't have much competition now, and you could argue we haven't for the last 20 years with either the OF running off with the title every year. 

 

We'll have to agree to disagree I guess, because I just don't subscribe to your way of thinking.

[amadjambo]

It's not a comparison though. The ones I listed could be our biggest games so the comparison there is Aberdeen, Hibs, Rangers and Celtic. No comparison in other words.

But wouldn't we still be playing those games? If we all moved then we'd all be in the same league to start with. Yes, we'd progress at different speeds and some of those fixtures would be lost for a while, but in that time we might then have games against the likes of Leeds Utd, Aston Villa etc which is slightly more attractive than Hamilton or Motherwell.

[luckydug]

But wouldn't we still be playing those games? If we all moved then we'd all be in the same league to start with. Yes, we'd progress at different speeds and some of those fixtures would be lost for a while, but in that time we might then have games against the likes of Leeds Utd, Aston Villa etc which is slightly more attractive than Hamilton or Motherwell.

 

OK if you are going to persist with this nonsense you should realize Hearts would enter at the fifth level.

The likes of Villa and Leeds are in the Championship. We would have to win three promotions to be playing these teams.

Sometime around 2030 if we were lucky.

[Bazzas right boot]

As I say if you take the TV income out of the equation the obstacle facing clubs subsisting on gates of 4,000 becomes a lot more substantial.

The gates would increase imo.

 

Tv money goes to two clubs,.

[Bazzas right boot]

OK if you are going to persist with this nonsense you should realize Hearts would enter at the fifth level.

The likes of Villa and Leeds are in the Championship. We would have to win three promotions to be playing these teams.

Sometime around 2030 if we were lucky.

Why is playing Aston villa and Leeds more attractive?

[Bazzas right boot]

Sorry but you are completely deluded. Celtic were still part of the 'big' league and everyone knew it was only a matter of time before Rangers (and indeed Hearts) came back into the SPL. Hearts crowds were good during that period because we were winning games and a league with BOTH Hibs and Rangers IN IT. If you think we get no money from TV now I can only imagine what you will think when it comes to renewing any contact with them gone. BBC Scotland may have something in their budget for us but that will be about it. As for attracting more supporters with Rangers and Celtic out of the league that is wishful thinking at best. There may be an immediate spike to see Hearts win an SPL title or two but many will soon realize how hollow that is without much competition. The standard of the league and the players in it will drop even further than it has already as there simply won't be the wages to attract players and it will be all the more difficult to retain any promising youngsters. Each to their own though, if you want a league akin to the Welsh or Irish then thats what we will get.

Nope, we would be akin to Belgium, Norway, Switzerland, Denmark, Czech, etc.

 

An Irish team just reached the Europa group stages, thier national team qualifies for major tournaments.

[Shanks said no]

So if the current English tables remained the same we would be playing the teams placed 81 and lower plus some Scottish teams and non league promoted clubs

 

Barnet, Cheltenham, Hartlepool, Crewe, Blackpool, Newport, Wycombe, Accrington, Yeovil, Stevenage, Exeter and Cambridge

[CJGJ]

OK if you are going to persist with this nonsense you should realize Hearts would enter at the fifth level.

The likes of Villa and Leeds are in the Championship. We would have to win three promotions to be playing these teams.

Sometime around 2030 if we were lucky.

Really ?

 

Burton Albion just got promoted 2 years in a row and we dwarf them in every way

 

We would be promoted from the new division 4 in the first season and prob'ly division 3 the next..........only then would we start to find things more difficult.

 

There have been 'big sides' in League1 like Sheffield United and that is where things would be more difficult but with more money generated we would have a pretty good shot at getting to the championship in 5 seasons not 14

[socrates82]

Whilst you are entitled to your opinion many of your points are utter nonsense. This possibly being chief amongst them. You clearly have no idea whatsoever as to the revenue of some of the clubs you have claimed we could be like in an Old Firm free Scottish League!! The likes of Legia and Basel have revenue many times that of ours just now let alone when we are getting considerably less than the pittance we do now if Rantic depart. It is completely delusional to think there will be any money in Scottish football and even if we retain a Champions League place absolutely no chance any team, including Hearts will have players good enough (given hee haw money for wages) to win several qualifiers. Christ, we can't even beat some humpty side from Malta just now with the income we do have!

 

If Rantic leave us behind we may win some Scottish titles though even that's far from certain as they would almost definitely place a Colt side in the league but Scottish football will be dead in the water. It will be totally unattractive to sponsors of any note and TV stations with any clout or money. If it's a pishy wee league with part time teams and Hearts both struggling to attract players and retain youngsters you are after than staying is definitely the way to go.

You kind of made my point for me. Copenhagen and co play in realtively small leagues with limited appeal beyond their own borders - just like Scotland without the OF according to you.

 

Perhaps they have more money because they win titles regularly and qualify for the CL - which we would be able to do?

 

I'd rather that than playing Morcambe. Wouldn't you?

[amadjambo]

OK if you are going to persist with this nonsense you should realize Hearts would enter at the fifth level.

The likes of Villa and Leeds are in the Championship. We would have to win three promotions to be playing these teams.

Sometime around 2030 if we were lucky.

I was factoring in the fact that Villa will be in free fall and that Leeds are such a shambles of a club that they could drop divisions.

[amadjambo]

Nope, we would be akin to Belgium, Norway, Switzerland, Denmark, Czech, etc.

 

An Irish team just reached the Europa group stages, thier national team qualifies for major tournaments.

Irish players, and Welsh players for that matter, tend to come through the academies of English clubs.

[socrates82]

But wouldn't we still be playing those games? If we all moved then we'd all be in the same league to start with. Yes, we'd progress at different speeds and some of those fixtures would be lost for a while, but in that time we might then have games against the likes of Leeds Utd, Aston Villa etc which is slightly more attractive than Hamilton or Motherwell.

So whats the point of moving to england just to play the same teams we play here (except without the chance of Europe)?

 

And doesn't taht illustrate how hard it would be to get promoted. We'd still be behind rangers and celtic, plus Hibs, ourselves and Aberdeen would start around the same level. We could be stuck in the English 4th and 5th divisions for years! Look at how hard Hibs have found getting promotion despite spending lots of money.

 

It's a fun pub conversation but that's it. Never going to happen. The OF going though might and it would be great for us.

[Bazzas right boot]

Stockholm syndrome.

 

We need the old firm

 

We need to join England.

 

We can't be or do Anything on our own.

 

Shite, we would be fine, all clubs would be fine. In fact we would be great.

We would be bloody champions!

 

As for starting in the the English 5/6th tier, I'd rather pull my toenails off and drink a pint of tramps piss.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Looking at teams like Copenhagen, Fc Basel, Legia Warsaw and Brugge in the CL group stages should end any thought of us following the OF to England. That could be us in an OF-free Scottish league!

 

"Small" teams in "small" leagues in "small" countries relatively speaking (especially Copenhagen and Basel). None of those teams or leagues have great global appeal for TV or sponsorship. I bet none of us can name any of their players.

 

I can't believe any Hearts fan would rather mess around in the lower English leagues than stay in Scotland and have a genuinely realistic target of winning a title and getting into the CL. 

 

The idea that playing lower league English league football is somehow more "ambitious" than aiming for the CL group stages is absurd.

 

 

Nope, we would be akin to Belgium, Norway, Switzerland, Denmark, Czech, etc.

 

An Irish team just reached the Europa group stages, thier national team qualifies for major tournaments.

 

The problem with this is that those countries don't have the most money-soaked behemoth in world football televised live over the national TV networks every weekend.  And the Scandinavian teams would only be a good comparison if you took their top dominant clubs out of the national setup and put them in, say, the Bundesliga and tried to run a league that way.

 

Scotland is 5.5 million people roughly, but roughly 1.8 million of that is in the Glasgow metro area.  If the OF work their way through the English setup and make it to the EPL, as I think they eventually would, are you going to see fewer people following them in favor of Partick, Mirren, Killie, and Motherwell?  Or are they going to suck even more of the life out of the clubs in the west?  I rather think the latter.  And then, even if folk in the rest of Scotland ignore them, that leaves 2.7 million people to follow a rump SPFL -- roughly the size of Wales minus Cardiff and Swansea.  Quick quiz -- without looking, can you name the most recent champion of the Welsh Premier League? (hint -- they're not even located in Wales!)

 

I want the OF to stay partially because I don't want them to leave Scotland having not been bested for 30 years.  I want to beat them to the league before they go.  While a move to English football would be dreary, if five Scottish clubs went south we'd skoosh that league collectively, probably all finishing in the top half of the new fifth tier, and I'd think Hearts would have a decent shot at a third promotion place if one were available.  I think we'd rise pretty easily to League One, and then would get into the Championship within a few years.  But I find Championship football wretched whenever I get a chance to watch it, so that's not entirely appealing, nor is the money dumping required to make a play for the EPL.

 

The SPFL doesn't have the stones to do it, but I still say if we're talking barmy scenarios they should go all out and offer all the NE England and Cumbria clubs entry into the Scottish setup, with some kind of massive TV deal in hand from a Sky competitor eager to play spoiler should we pull it off.  That would be a fantastic league to watch, and while we'd be a much smaller fish in that pond, it certainly wouldn't be a duopoly anymore.

[John Findlay]

Sorry but you are completely deluded. Celtic were still part of the 'big' league and everyone knew it was only a matter of time before Rangers (and indeed Hearts) came back into the SPL. Hearts crowds were good during that period because we were winning games and a league with BOTH Hibs and Rangers IN IT. If you think we get no money from TV now I can only imagine what you will think when it comes to renewing any contact with them gone. BBC Scotland may have something in their budget for us but that will be about it. As for attracting more supporters with Rangers and Celtic out of the league that is wishful thinking at best. There may be an immediate spike to see Hearts win an SPL title or two but many will soon realize how hollow that is without much competition. The standard of the league and the players in it will drop even further than it has already as there simply won't be the wages to attract players and it will be all the more difficult to retain any promising youngsters. Each to their own though, if you want a league akin to the Welsh or Irish then thats what we will get.

I think you should wear one of those half and half scarves. One half Red White and Blue and the other half Green White and Gold. :-)

[socrates82]

The problem with this is that those countries don't have the most money-soaked behemoth in world football televised live over the national TV networks every weekend.  And the Scandinavian teams would only be a good comparison if you took their top dominant clubs out of the national setup and put them in, say, the Bundesliga and tried to run a league that way.

 

Scotland is 5.5 million people roughly, but roughly 1.8 million of that is in the Glasgow metro area.  If the OF work their way through the English setup and make it to the EPL, as I think they eventually would, are you going to see fewer people following them in favor of Partick, Mirren, Killie, and Motherwell?  Or are they going to suck even more of the life out of the clubs in the west?  I rather think the latter.  And then, even if folk in the rest of Scotland ignore them, that leaves 2.7 million people to follow a rump SPFL -- roughly the size of Wales minus Cardiff and Swansea.  Quick quiz -- without looking, can you name the most recent champion of the Welsh Premier League? (hint -- they're not even located in Wales!)

 

I want the OF to stay partially because I don't want them to leave Scotland having not been bested for 30 years.  I want to beat them to the league before they go.  While a move to English football would be dreary, if five Scottish clubs went south we'd skoosh that league collectively, probably all finishing in the top half of the new fifth tier, and I'd think Hearts would have a decent shot at a third promotion place if one were available.  I think we'd rise pretty easily to League One, and then would get into the Championship within a few years.  But I find Championship football wretched whenever I get a chance to watch it, so that's not entirely appealing, nor is the money dumping required to make a play for the EPL.

 

The SPFL doesn't have the stones to do it, but I still say if we're talking barmy scenarios they should go all out and offer all the NE England and Cumbria clubs entry into the Scottish setup, with some kind of massive TV deal in hand from a Sky competitor eager to play spoiler should we pull it off.  That would be a fantastic league to watch, and while we'd be a much smaller fish in that pond, it certainly wouldn't be a duopoly anymore.

 

The EPL is now broadcast globally. I expect that includes Denmark and Switzerland. Scandinavia in particular is mad about English football! Doesn't seem to hold back Copenhagen, and before them Gothenburg and Rosenburg.

 

The idea of all 5 Scottish teams rocketing up the English divisions hand in hand is hilarious!

[Hendricks]

Stockholm syndrome.

 

We need the old firm

 

We need to join England.

 

We can't be or do Anything on our own.

 

Shite, we would be fine, all clubs would be fine. In fact we would be great.

We would be bloody champions!

 

As for starting in the the English 5/6th tier, I'd rather pull my toenails off and drink a pint of tramps piss.

Any title Hearts won after the Old Firm left would be completely devalued for many many people. This is without question. Some people would love it and that is their prerogative but many would see it a tainted success only made possible by their departure. The notion that winning the title would see us (or the likes of Aberdeen or Hibs) the opportunity to grab Champions League riches is utterly laughable. We can't even beat Maltese teams now with the revenue we do have and that will undoubtably decrease further if they were to leave. We will struggle to attract players never mind the Hamilton's, Ross County's and Particks of the league as there simply won't be the money in the game. Category A matches and the supports the gruesome twosome bring to these clubs will be lost as will much of the TV revenue. This is the cold hard reality whether you like it or not! Will clubs like Hearts survive in some in some rejigged SPL? Yes. Will we thrive? Not a chance. Scottish football would become even more of a backwater than it is now.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

The EPL is now broadcast globally. I expect that includes Denmark and Switzerland. Scandinavia in particular is mad about English football! Doesn't seem to hold back Copenhagen, and before them Gothenburg and Rosenburg.

 

The idea of all 5 Scottish teams rocketing up the English divisions hand in hand is hilarious!

 

It's broadcast globally, but not at the level it's available in the UK. And you've ignored my point that an equivalent rump SPFL would be the equivalent of a Norwegian league with no Rosenburg.

 

Beyond that, it's amazing how blinkered some Scottish fans are about the quality of football in England.  The current Ross County squad could make its own way in League One FFS -- just because the EPL has stupid money we should quake in fear at the thought of playing Bury. 

[Bazzas right boot]

Any title Hearts won after the Old Firm left would be completely devalued for many many people. This is without question. Some people would love it and that is their prerogative but many would see it a tainted success only made possible by their departure. The notion that winning the title would see us (or the likes of Aberdeen or Hibs) the opportunity to grab Champions League riches is utterly laughable. We can't even beat Maltese teams now with the revenue we do have and that will undoubtably decrease further if they were to leave. We will struggle to attract players never mind the Hamilton's, Ross County's and Particks of the league as there simply won't be the money in the game. Category A matches and the supports the gruesome twosome bring to these clubs will be lost as will much of the TV revenue. This is the cold hard reality whether you like it or not! Will clubs like Hearts survive in some in some rejigged SPL? Yes. Will we thrive? Not a chance. Scottish football would become even more of a backwater than it is now.

Maybe for some, a generation later no one would care.

 

I wouldn't care we'd be beating Aberdeen. Utd, hibs to the title.

 

I would and do celebrate any trophy win.

 

I don't agree with your opinion, you have no cold hard facts just your opinion.

 

 

It's late, will put forward a reply tomorrow, you also miss out all the negative aspects of the old firm, something for you to ponder as you list the positive they bring in your opinion.

[socrates82]

 Will we thrive? Not a chance. Scottish football would become even more of a backwater than it is now.

 

 

Sorry, cut off the rest to focus on the bit above. Which of the made-up scenarios below appeal to you more and seems more realistic:

 

Season 2018/19 (first season with no OF): In front of 18,000 crowds every week due to the chance of a title, Hearts win the league and enter CL qualifiers

Season 2019/18: We beat Crusaders then Astra Giurgiu then APOEL (Copenhagen's draw this year - achievable for us to beat all of them) to qualify for the group stages and pocket 20m

 

or

 

Season 2018/19 (first season in English first Division): In front of 14,000 ave crowds who don't want to watch Forest Green, Morecambe and co, and with very few away fans coming up from England, we finish 5th in Div 5 behind Celtic, Rangers, York City and Tranmere Rovers (the last two came up from the conference). We fail in the play-offs and stay down with Aberdeen and Hibs.

Season 2019/18: With crowds even lower, we slip to 7th in the English 5th Division. Aberdeen take advantage of an oil boom to spend more and get promotion, along with Hibs, who finally found a buyer attracted to the possible riches in England. Hearts, owned by the fans, aren't attractive enough to a buyer who wants full control.

 

IMO, the first scenario is as likely as the second, if not more so, and is infinitely more valuable to Hearts and enjoyable for the fans. 

 

In scenario 1 we can possible get 20m extra income through the CL in one year.

 

In scenario 2 in England it would take years to get to the stage when we could earn that kind of income. (League Two clubs get just 250 grand from TV just now. Championship clubs only get 2.5m or something each). The ONLY way to get the big money is in the EPL, which would take years to get to - at least 4 or 5 if we are wildly optimistic.

 

In the meantime, in scenario 1, Hearts could use that first 20m and keep winning titles (realistic in an OF-less league) and could end up earning 100m in the same time. And you say a league title would be devalued!

[luckydug]

Any title Hearts won after the Old Firm left would be completely devalued for many many people. This is without question. Some people would love it and that is their prerogative but many would see it a tainted success only made possible by their departure. The notion that winning the title would see us (or the likes of Aberdeen or Hibs) the opportunity to grab Champions League riches is utterly laughable. We can't even beat Maltese teams now with the revenue we do have and that will undoubtably decrease further if they were to leave. We will struggle to attract players never mind the Hamilton's, Ross County's and Particks of the league as there simply won't be the money in the game. Category A matches and the supports the gruesome twosome bring to these clubs will be lost as will much of the TV revenue. This is the cold hard reality whether you like it or not! Will clubs like Hearts survive in some in some rejigged SPL? Yes. Will we thrive? Not a chance. Scottish football would become even more of a backwater than it is now.

 

If we are as bad as you make out then we will have zero chance of making progress in England.

As for the absence of the OF devaluing our league. We did well for attendances in the championship without Celtic. Hibs are currently enjoying the best attendances for years without both Ugly sisters.

I believe the reason for that is because the fans see they have a chance of winning

something.

We need to start believing in ourselves as a nation.If the OF leave then we just get on with making our league as strong as it can be. Running away on some fanciful chase for a pot of gold is not the answer.

I also think the OF will regret a move under the conditions of this proposal.

[socrates82]

It's broadcast globally, but not at the level it's available in the UK. And you've ignored my point that an equivalent rump SPFL would be the equivalent of a Norwegian league with no Rosenburg.

 

Beyond that, it's amazing how blinkered some Scottish fans are about the quality of football in England.  The current Ross County squad could make its own way in League One FFS -- just because the EPL has stupid money we should quake in fear at the thought of playing Bury. 

 

No it wouldn't - We would be the Rosenburg. Rosenburg's average attendance is 18,000. Norway has no clubs as big as the OF - nowhere near, not even in the same ballpark. There is not the same gap between the top two and the rest crowds and hence resources wise in any of those nations' leagues.

 

None of the Scandinavian countries do. Copenhagen's is only 15,000. 

 

That's my point, even us just being a little bit better than the rest could see us dominate our league like a Rosenburg or Copenhagen has. (In reality it would be very competitive, which would be great).

 

Without the OF, with Aberdeen, Hibs and ourselves, we would be a normal league similar to Denmark, Sweden and co now - possibly more competitive. So our bigger teams would have the same opportunities in Europe as the bigger clubs in those countries do now.

[luckydug]

Why is playing Aston villa and Leeds more attractive?

 

I didn't say it was. I was replying to someone who thinks it is. Merely pointing out how long it would take to fight our way through the backwaters of lower league

English football before we get to play against decent teams.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

It's broadcast globally, but not at the level it's available in the UK. And you've ignored my point that an equivalent rump SPFL would be the equivalent of a Norwegian league with no Rosenburg.

 

Beyond that, it's amazing how blinkered some Scottish fans are about the quality of football in England. The current Ross County squad could make its own way in League One FFS -- just because the EPL has stupid money we should quake in fear at the thought of playing Bury.

Not true. Abroad, you can watch all the 3pm Saturday kick-offs.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

No it wouldn't - We would be the Rosenburg. Rosenburg's average attendance is 18,000. Norway has no clubs as big as the OF - nowhere near, not even in the same ballpark. There is not the same gap between the top two and the rest crowds and hence resources wise in any of those nations' leagues.

 

None of the Scandinavian countries do. Copenhagen's is only 15,000. 

 

That's my point, even us just being a little bit better than the rest could see us dominate our league like a Rosenburg or Copenhagen has. (In reality it would be very competitive, which would be great).

 

Without the OF, with Aberdeen, Hibs and ourselves, we would be a normal league similar to Denmark, Sweden and co now - possibly more competitive. So our bigger teams would have the same opportunities in Europe as the bigger clubs in those countries do now.

 

Except, again as you keep ignoring, the OF would still be in Glasgow, still be on TV, still be the main football story in all the newspapers, still be the main topic of discussion on all of the radio and TV talk shows.

[Hendricks]

Maybe for some, a generation later no one would care.

 

I wouldn't care we'd be beating Aberdeen. Utd, hibs to the title.

 

I would and do celebrate any trophy win.

 

I don't agree with your opinion, you have no cold hard facts just your opinion.

 

 

It's late, will put forward a reply tomorrow, you also miss out all the negative aspects of the old firm, something for you to ponder as you list the positive they bring in your opinion.

Well you got one thing correct, it is my opinion and nowhere have I stated "facts". I have used the word reality as in my opinion you are deluded about the economics of Scortish football should the Old Firm depart. We aren't going to agree on that so only time would ever tell if this eve came to pass.

 

Also in my opinion - by the time the "next generation" came around the Scottish league would be a complete irrelevance. Why not take the opportunity if it presents itself and be ambitious so that the next generation can enjoy seeing Hearts fulfilling our potential?! Not playing against part time teams in a league nobody outside parts of Scotland cares about.

 

Equally nowhere have I listed positives that the Old Fom being so not sure where you got that from. For the last 30 years I've disliked and at times despised the way both have mistreated, manipulated, strangled and rundown our league. This is about us as far as I'm concerned. Back to that word reality though. The reality of football in 2016 and for the foreseeable is MONEY TALKS. Whether that is palatable to you is neither here nor there but as far as the TV networks and any significant sponsors care Scottish football revolves around those 2. Even with them we struggle for deals of any note. Take them away and our clubs will be laughed out of town when it comes to clinching anything but the smallest of contracts. It's just the reality. So if you go down that road you had better be very ready to accept downsizing of everything on and off the pitch. Hearts will survive but there are definitely clubs who won't.

[Bazzas right boot]

I didn't say it was. I was replying to someone who thinks it is. Merely pointing out how long it would take to fight our way through the backwaters of lower league

English football before we get to play against decent teams.

Mmm, think people get excitement/ quality and money mixed up.

 

Playing Hamilton to win the league and become champions of your country is far more exciting than playing Leeds to end up 10th in the championship.

 

In fact, playing Hamilton, ending up 3rd is more exciting than that.

 

Just because we might have more money, it doesn't equal excitement. It's all relative.

 

Newcastle have had a pretty dull 15-20 years yet spent hundreds of millions.

[socrates82]

Except, again as you keep ignoring, the OF would still be in Glasgow, still be on TV, still be the main football story in all the newspapers, still be the main topic of discussion on all of the radio and TV talk shows.

 

That's irrelevant. We get the CL and English football now. The OF would just become part of that and non-OF fans would watch them as they do now. They would fill their stadiums as they do now.

 

The point is if we stay in Scotland without the OF we could get 20m + in one year for winning the title and doing a Copenhagen to reach the CL group stages - that would be realistic.

 

If we went to England, the most we could benefit financially would be around 250,000 grand for their share of EPL TV money! Even reaching the Championship would only get us ?2-3m and would take 4 years at least.

 

Imagine 4 years in Scotland winning the title and getting several chances in Europe. People are saying we'd lose money without the OF. I honestly think it would be the opposite. We would sink without trace potentially after going to England.

 

Tranmere Rovers are currently in the Conference - a non league team. They have a capacity of 16,000 or so and they used to be in Division 1 in England. We could as easily end up like them as like a Southampton or Swansea.

 

It would be a massive risk, especially when the alternative is multiple title wins potentially in Scotland and therefor multiple chances to do something in Europe and get at least one massive windfall of 20m or so - which would take years to earn starting at the bottom in England.

[Hendricks]

No it wouldn't - We would be the Rosenburg. Rosenburg's average attendance is 18,000. Norway has no clubs as big as the OF - nowhere near, not even in the same ballpark. There is not the same gap between the top two and the rest crowds and hence resources wise in any of those nations' leagues.

 

None of the Scandinavian countries do. Copenhagen's is only 15,000.

 

That's my point, even us just being a little bit better than the rest could see us dominate our league like a Rosenburg or Copenhagen has. (In reality it would be very competitive, which would be great).

 

Without the OF, with Aberdeen, Hibs and ourselves, we would be a normal league similar to Denmark, Sweden and co now - possibly more competitive. So our bigger teams would have the same opportunities in Europe as the bigger clubs in those countries do now.

Again you are completely clueless about the finances and revenue of some of these clubs. The likes of Basel have 5 or 6 times our revenue and that's with our current TV contract. We will be lucky to have more than a token BBC Scotland contract if Rantic leave.

 

Who do you think is playing for Hearts in this new fangled SPL we are going to dominate cos it sure as hell won't be the likes of Kitchen and Watt. We won't be able to afford their wages. Teams like St Johnstone and Hamilton will be part time within no time! It's total pie in the sky that our opportunities would increase with their departure, it's just not the reality.

 

Hearts are actually in an unenviable position if this ever came to fruition, because neither option to us is a winner at least in the short term. Leave and we face some of the valid points discussed by you and others in this thread. Stay and watch the continual slow death of the national game in Scotland. It's a tough one but I'd definitely be on board with testing pastures new if the opportunity presents itself.

[socrates82]

Well you got one thing correct, it is my opinion and nowhere have I stated "facts". I have used the word reality as in my opinion you are deluded about the economics of Scortish football should the Old Firm depart. We aren't going to agree on that so only time would ever tell if this eve came to pass.

 

Also in my opinion - by the time the "next generation" came around the Scottish league would be a complete irrelevance. Why not take the opportunity if it presents itself and be ambitious so that the next generation can enjoy seeing Hearts fulfilling our potential?! Not playing against part time teams in a league nobody outside parts of Scotland cares about.

 

Equally nowhere have I listed positives that the Old Fom being so not sure where you got that from. For the last 30 years I've disliked and at times despised the way both have mistreated, manipulated, strangled and rundown our league. This is about us as far as I'm concerned. Back to that word reality though. The reality of football in 2016 and for the foreseeable is MONEY TALKS. Whether that is palatable to you is neither here nor there but as far as the TV networks and any significant sponsors care Scottish football revolves around those 2. Even with them we struggle for deals of any note. Take them away and our clubs will be laughed out of town when it comes to clinching anything but the smallest of contracts. It's just the reality. So if you go down that road you had better be very ready to accept downsizing of everything on and off the pitch. Hearts will survive but there are definitely clubs who won't.

 

No answer to the scenario you prefer or think is more realistic?

 

Winning the Scottish title and then doing a Copenhagen (average crowd 15,000) and getting 20m for reaching the CL group stages after a kind draw?

Or getting stuck in Division 5 of the English league with 100 grand of TV money on offer? And just 250,000 the next year and 350,000 the next year. Not much more than now in fact. (Bear in mind we would start in a league with several teams with greater or the same resources as us - Celtic, Rangers, Aberdeen, Hibs, Tranmere, Portsmouth potentially, etc). 

[socrates82]

Again you are completely clueless about the finances and revenue of some of these clubs. The likes of Basel have 5 or 6 times our revenue and that's with our current TV contract. We will be lucky to have more than a token BBC Scotland contract if Rantic leave.

 

Who do you think is playing for Hearts in this new fangled SPL we are going to dominate cos it sure as hell won't be the likes of Kitchen and Watt. We won't be able to afford their wages. Teams like St Johnstone and Hamilton will be part time within no time! It's total pie in the sky that our opportunities would increase with their departure, it's just not the reality.

 

Hearts are actually in an unenviable position if this ever came to fruition, because neither option to us is a winner at least in the short term. Leave and we face some of the valid points discussed by you and others in this thread. Stay and watch the continual slow death of the national game in Scotland. It's a tough one but I'd definitely be on board with testing pastures new if the opportunity presents itself.

 

I'm talking about Copenhagen. They are the closest comparison to us. Similar sized country. Average crowds of about 15,000. Just pocketed ?20m. What say you? You don't think "pastures new" includes Europe and the CL potentially - which would be within our reach more often than now.

[luckydug]

Well you got one thing correct, it is my opinion and nowhere have I stated "facts". I have used the word reality as in my opinion you are deluded about the economics of Scortish football should the Old Firm depart. We aren't going to agree on that so only time would ever tell if this eve came to pass.

 

Also in my opinion - by the time the "next generation" came around the Scottish league would be a complete irrelevance. Why not take the opportunity if it presents itself and be ambitious so that the next generation can enjoy seeing Hearts fulfilling our potential?! Not playing against part time teams in a league nobody outside parts of Scotland cares about.

 

Equally nowhere have I listed positives that the Old Fom being so not sure where you got that from. For the last 30 years I've disliked and at times despised the way both have mistreated, manipulated, strangled and rundown our league. This is about us as far as I'm concerned. Back to that word reality though. The reality of football in 2016 and for the foreseeable is MONEY TALKS. Whether that is palatable to you is neither here nor there but as far as the TV networks and any significant sponsors care Scottish football revolves around those 2. Even with them we struggle for deals of any note. Take them away and our clubs will be laughed out of town when it comes to clinching anything but the smallest of contracts. It's just the reality. So if you go down that road you had better be very ready to accept downsizing of everything on and off the pitch. Hearts will survive but there are definitely clubs who won't.

 

I would be more worried about Hearts surviving years of lower league football in England. If after a few years and stuck in the 3rd Division with only the prospect of hum drum League matches and no chance of Europe our crowds would be decimated.

We would have let down Scotland and sold part of our heritage to become a nonentity in a foreign league because that what England is in football terms. Why don't we apply to join the lower French/Spanish or German leagues ?

It makes as much sense.

[Hendricks]

Mmm, think people get excitement/ quality and money mixed up.

 

Playing Hamilton to win the league and become champions of your country is far more exciting than playing Leeds to end up 10th in the championship.

 

In fact, playing Hamilton, ending up 3rd is more exciting than that.

 

Just because we might have more money, it doesn't equal excitement. It's all relative.

 

Newcastle have had a pretty dull 15-20 years yet spent hundreds of millions.

You've obviously never been fortunate enough to go to St Jame's Park or Elland Road or travel with Hearts to grounds in England. Suggesting that beating a Hamilton team that will likely be part time in no time should the Old Firm depart rather see Hearts playing the likes of (only) Newcastle or Leeds regularly is just bizarre. Welcoming the likes of these clubs to Tynecastle would be exciting not watching the same shite with their 120 fans at least 4 times a season as we do now. The freshness of something new and the opportunity for our club to grow would be, for me something to look forward to massively. We certainly won't grow playing in a Scottish league with no revenue streams and a totally parochial outlook.

[socrates82]

You've obviously never been fortunate enough to go to St Jame's Park or Elland Road or travel with Hearts to grounds in England. Suggesting that beating a Hamilton team that will likely be part time in no time should the Old Firm depart rather see Hearts playing the likes of (only) Newcastle or Leeds regularly is just bizarre. Welcoming the likes of these clubs to Tynecastle would be exciting not watching the same shite with their 120 fans at least 4 times a season as we do now. The freshness of something new and the opportunity for our club to grow would be, for me something to look forward to massively. We certainly won't grow playing in a Scottish league with no revenue streams and a totally parochial outlook.

 

Mate, the point is we might never get to play the teams you mentioned! Not starting in the 5th division with Celtic, Rangers, Aberdeen, Hibs, etc. It would take years. Doing a Copenhagen and winning our domestic title then getting to the CL stages is much more realistic, enjoyable and lucrative - both in the short and long term! I don't get how you don't see that. Do you honestly think Copenhagen fans would give that up to play Morecambe in England?

 

If Tranmere Rovers with crowds of 16,000 at one point and in a populated region can slide from Div 1 to non league and never get up again so could we! Their ground is not much smaller than ours so I assume you agree they have as much "potential" as us? As would Portsmouth (capacity over 20,000, currently in League Two), Hibs, Aberdeen, etc, etc.

 

Maybe you'd get lucky though and Leeds would slip into Division 5 or whatever so we could play them!

[Bazzas right boot]

You've obviously never been fortunate enough to go to St Jame's Park or Elland Road or travel with Hearts to grounds in England. Suggesting that beating a Hamilton team that will likely be part time in no time should the Old Firm depart rather see Hearts playing the likes of (only) Newcastle or Leeds regularly is just bizarre. Welcoming the likes of these clubs to Tynecastle would be exciting not watching the same shite with their 120 fans at least 4 times a season as we do now. The freshness of something new and the opportunity for our club to grow would be, for me something to look forward to massively. We certainly won't grow playing in a Scottish league with no revenue streams and a totally parochial outlook.

He he, been to arsenal, Everton and Newcastle.

 

Nice grounds, however I'd play Hamilton all day to wi titles and cups rather than play at these grounds or the likes in the second tier of another country.

 

I'll take the chance of winning titles over big stadiums any day.

 

It's what you are playing for that's exciting, not who your playing.

 

You undervalue the other 40 teams in the league. Strange as your a Hearts fan.

 

I expect this attitude from Of fans, not from the other teams fans.

[Hendricks]

I think you should wear one of those half and half scarves. One half Red White and Blue and the other half Green White and Gold. :-)

 

Thanks for your oh so insightful input. What a tool.

[Hendricks]

Mate, the point is we might never get to play the teams you mentioned! Not starting in the 5th division with Celtic, Rangers, Aberdeen, Hibs, etc. It would take years. Doing a Copenhagen and winning our domestic title then getting to the CL stages is much more realistic, enjoyable and lucrative - both in the short and long term! I don't get how you don't see that. Do you honestly think Copenhagen fans would give that up to play Morecambe in England?

 

If Tranmere Rovers with crowds of 16,000 at one point and in a populated region can slide from Div 1 to non league and never get up again so could we! Their ground is not much smaller than ours so I assume you agree they have as much "potential" as us? As would Portsmouth (capacity over 20,000, currently in League Two), Hibs, Aberdeen, etc, etc.

 

Maybe you'd get lucky though and Leeds would slip into Division 5 or whatever so we could play them!

 

 

Sadly your mentality is why Hearts will never grow and realise our potential. Stuck in a no mark league playing Aberdeen, Hibs and Dundee (and they are the 'big' clubs) 4 times a season, aye that will be a huge success! In my opinion you are completely delusional re both the Champions League and the state the Scottish game will be in within a very short period of time should Rantic depart. Lets leave it there and see what transpires and if there is any truth to the recent rumours of talks between them and The Football League.

[RussAsia]

Maybe for some, a generation later no one would care.

 

I wouldn't care we'd be beating Aberdeen. Utd, hibs to the title.

 

I would and do celebrate any trophy win.

 

I don't agree with your opinion, you have no cold hard facts just your opinion.

 

 

It's late, will put forward a reply tomorrow, you also miss out all the negative aspects of the old firm, something for you to ponder as you list the positive they bring in your opinion.

 

If Hearts turned down a move to England there is every chance Aberdeen, Hibs and maybe even the likes of a Dundee team would take up their offer..

 

Leaving behind us, then the next biggest teams being those who struggle to scrape 4000 home fans through the gates..

 

Mmm, think people get excitement/ quality and money mixed up.

 

Playing Hamilton to win the league and become champions of your country is far more exciting than playing Leeds to end up 10th in the championship.

 

In fact, playing Hamilton, ending up 3rd is more exciting than that.

 

Just because we might have more money, it doesn't equal excitement. It's all relative.

 

Newcastle have had a pretty dull 15-20 years yet spent hundreds of millions.

 

Newcastle have finished 2nd 3 times in the last 30 years have they not? Ok no cup wins but they have had some exciting years.. With actual title challenges..

 

That being said they are a basket case of a club with bad leadership basically since John Hall left them.. Probably why people like to use them in arguements..

[Hendricks]

He he, been to arsenal, Everton and Newcastle.

 

Nice grounds, however I'd play Hamilton all day to wi titles and cups rather than play at these grounds or the likes in the second tier of another country.

 

I'll take the chance of winning titles over big stadiums any day.

 

It's what you are playing for that's exciting, not who your playing.

 

You undervalue the other 40 teams in the league. Strange as your a Hearts fan.

 

I expect this attitude from Of fans, not from the other teams fans.

 

As explained ad nauseam, many wont't see winning titles in a massively diluted league much of an accomplishment at all. As with Socrates we aren't going to agree on how the future would pan out should this scenario ever play out so lets just call it quits and see what happens as I don't think either of us will convince the other!

[RussAsia]

Sadly your mentality is why Hearts will never grow and realise our potential. Stuck in a no mark league playing Aberdeen, Hibs and Dundee (and they are the 'big' clubs) 4 times a season, aye that will be a huge success! In my opinion you are completely delusional re both the Champions League and the state the Scottish game will be in within a very short period of time should Rantic depart. Lets leave it there and see what transpires and if there is any truth to the recent rumours of talks between them and The Football League.

 

In fairness if the old firm left but the rest stayed I would imagine we would increase our league to an 18/20 team top division since the requirement for 4 Old Firm games a season would be removed..

 

We'd get cheaper season tickets at least as they couldn't realistically charge the same price for what would be a maximum of 2 Cat A games (Hibs and Aberdeen), a handful of Cat B games and a load of Cat C games at best..

 

The reason why we can't be compared to any other nations than Wales is the fact that they are the only other country where their biggest clubs play in a different country, hoovering up all the fans and with a spending power ensuring that they have the top youngsters leaving what's left to fight over the scraps.. Hearts should be winning titles though then we will get pumped out of the Champions league in the middle of July..

[socrates82]

Sadly your mentality is why Hearts will never grow and realise our potential. Stuck in a no mark league playing Aberdeen, Hibs and Dundee (and they are the 'big' clubs) 4 times a season, aye that will be a huge success! In my opinion you are completely delusional re both the Champions League and the state the Scottish game will be in within a very short period of time should Rantic depart. Lets leave it there and see what transpires and if there is any truth to the recent rumours of talks between them and The Football League.

 

I would pay good money to watch you sit in a pub with a Copenhagen fan as they watch their team play Leicester in the CL group stages (as part of a relatively kind group by the way that Copenhagen could actually qualify from) and try to persuade them that they would be better off in the English lower leagues competing for years with dozens of teams their size to get into the EPL, rather than their current position of winning domestic titles and cups and competing in Europe.

 

Hendricks: "But Preben, mate, don't you want to realise your potential and grow"

 

Preben ignores Hendricks and turns back to the telly just as Falk sticks the winner past Schmeichal to seal second place for Copenhagen in the group behind Porto. Now they play Manchester City after pocketing half a million for each win and another several million for getting to the knock out stages, on top of the millions for getting to the group stages.

 

Preben's all like: 

 

[socrates82]

In fairness if the old firm left but the rest stayed I would imagine we would increase our league to an 18/20 team top division since the requirement for 4 Old Firm games a season would be removed..

 

We'd get cheaper season tickets at least as they couldn't realistically charge the same price for what would be a maximum of 2 Cat A games (Hibs and Aberdeen), a handful of Cat B games and a load of Cat C games at best..

 

The reason why we can't be compared to any other nations than Wales is the fact that they are the only other country where their biggest clubs play in a different country, hoovering up all the fans and with a spending power ensuring that they have the top youngsters leaving what's left to fight over the scraps.. Hearts should be winning titles though then we will get pumped out of the Champions league in the middle of July..

 

We can't be compared with Wales though as none of their remain gin teams (I think) get anywhere near Scottish top league attendances. And also haven't Swansea and Cardiff played win England basically for ever? Or decades at least. Not really a good comparison.

 

In reality, ourselves Hibs and Aberdeen could step up to become the new "OF". The gap between us and the rest just wouldn't be as big - so quite like other leagues in countries our size.

 

Folk on here are sounding like OF fans or Neil Doncaster with this chat.

[Hendricks]

I would pay good money to watch you sit in a pub with a Copenhagen fan as they watch their team play Leicester in the CL group stages (as part of a relatively kind group by the way that Copenhagen could actually qualify from) and try to persuade them that they would be better off in the English lower leagues competing for years with dozens of teams their size to get into the EPL, rather than their current position of winning domestic titles and cups and competing in Europe.

 

Hendricks: "But Preben, mate, don't you want to realise your potential and grow"

Preben ignores Hendricks and turns back to the telly just as Falk sticks the winner past Schmeichal to seal second place for Copenhagen in the group behind Porto. Now they play Manchester City after pocketing half a million for each win and another several million for getting to the knock out stages, on top of the millions for getting to the group stages.

Preben's all like:

 

 

 

Have the biggest teams left the Danish league like, I must have missed that???? WTF are you on about hahaha. They STILL have the revenues from their TV networks and sponsorships as far as I know, we won't. That is what you are failing to understand. The leagues you mention STILL have their biggest teams so therefore the status quo exists and they therefore  receive the revenues. There is no comparison because the situations are entirely different. If Hearts (and Aberdeen and Hibs etc) were to share in or even increase all the money that leaves our game when Rantic depart then my outlook and view would be entirely different but that won't happen. We will be left with the crumbs on the table playing in a league that nobody cares about.

 

In turn Hearts are not going to be playing in the Champions League, we won't have the money to employ players of any quality to get anywhere near qualifying. The SPL we may win yes but it will be of no value and will lead to know riches. Thats the reality.

[socrates82]

Have the biggest teams left the Danish league like, I must have missed that???? WTF are you on about hahaha. They STILL have the revenues from their TV networks and sponsorships as far as I know, we won't. That is what you are failing to understand. The leagues you mention STILL have their biggest teams so therefore the status quo exists and they therefore  receive the revenues. There is no comparison because the situations are entirely different. If Hearts (and Aberdeen and Hibs etc) were to share in or even increase all the money that leaves our game when Rantic depart then my outlook and view would be entirely different but that won't happen. We will be left with the crumbs on the table playing in a league that nobody cares about.

 

In turn Hearts are not going to be playing in the Champions League, we won't have the money to employ players of any quality to get anywhere near qualifying. The SPL we may win yes but it will be of no value and will lead to know riches. Thats the reality.

 

You're not listening. Copenhagen are nowhere near the size of Rangers or Celtic. They are our size. We would be the equivalent of Copenhagen. Copenhagen are already playing in a  league without two teams the size of the OF and doing well - that's the point. As for the rest of the Danish league, our league has better and bigger teams and bigger attendances across the board (even without the OF).

 

And why can't we get into the CL if Copenhagen can? Makes no sense. Our crowds are the same. We play in a better league. Why can't you see that ourselves and Aberdeen and/or Hibs would become the OF. We are bigger than the other teams and could dominate. It's just the gap would be smaller between us and the rest than the gap between the OF and us currently. That would make for a more exciting league.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

A better question to ask - who would stop attending HMFC games if they left?