Celtic & Sevco bid to join English league. Again. (merged)

[Pans Jambo]

Just bring back the reserve leagues.  Done! 

 

The U21's league isn't working. The lads are not learning much playing other lads, they need seasoned professionals with experience playing along side them. Which is probably what Jordan McGhee was alluding to in his interview.

[jambo1961]

Have this by all means but no promotion to the top two leagues I say

[i wish jj was my dad]

Report here.

 

http://stv.tv/sport/football/1366186-spfl-chief-scottish-clubs-should-be-open-minded-to-colts-in-league/

Repulsive idea.

 

This is nothing to do with player development and everything to do with OF promotion. I'd rather Scottish clubs jettisoned both the bigots and their servants at the GFA and SPFL and started again without them.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

They will never be accepted , nor would UEFA sanction such a move. 

 

Stop greetin little Newco and Cellic. 

 

Sanction it?  I can only imagine they are encouraging it.

 

It would likely smooth transition away from the four home nations playing independently and towards Team GB.

[i wish jj was my dad]

Nope, you know the drill with this mob.

 

 

There is nothing our ruling bodies won't do to appease these 2, remember the scaremongering of Armageddon ?. [emoji6]

Precisely. I don't know who disgusts me most.  The arrogant tossers who think we are here specifically to take it up the farter for them or the pricks at Hampden who apply the lubricant on their behalf.

[Beast Boy]

Precisely. I don't know who disgusts me most. The arrogant tossers who think we are here specifically to take it up the farter for them or the pricks at Hampden who apply the lubricant on their behalf.

This.

[Son Of Anarchy]

Repulsive idea.

 

This is nothing to do with player development and everything to do with OF promotion. I'd rather Scottish clubs jettisoned both the bigots and their servants at the GFA and SPFL and started again without them.

Me too. Boot every suit out and start afresh. Hate the gfa arse lickers as much as the arse cheeks.

[upgotheheads]

A European league with top 4 or 5 teams from the likes of Scotland, Holland , Portugal, Sweden, Belgium etc will in my opinion happen before any join up with English league. I would imagine a big Tv deal from all those country's could match the Sky/ EPL.

I don't believe that anything like this will happen. TV wouldn't be interested and travelling support would be  non-existent.

 

I think that the way football is evolving that it is highly likely that we will be playing in a European league set up within the next 15 years or so. To be honest I think that the national leagues will simply feed into a larger structure. Personally I can't stand the 2 big Glasgow clubs and I wouldn't be at all upset if they went but I think that the way things are shaping up they would be mad to do so.

I'm with this, although a European league would only involve around 20 t0 40 clubs from Germany, Spain, Italy, Engerlund, France and maybe a few from peripheral leagues like Holland, Belgium, Scandinavia and maybe even Scotland. All of the latter just to make up the numbers and sell some tv subscriptions.

 

The OF would be clubs of a similar stature to Newcastle United who are playing in the Championship in England. It seems pretty obvious to me that Glasgow just doesn't hold the same attraction as London for the really top players.

Spot on, which is why the Old Firm decision makers will be hoping that they are not invited to join a new English set-up. They would look stupid if they reject the offer, and will be sunk without trace if they do.

 

I doubt that many would look at it that way. Sure, there wouldn't be much extra cash from the weegie unwashed since I doubt that they would routinely travel hundreds of miles in great numbers unless it was a real glamour tie. But equally, a CL spot is only the icing on the cake for such clubs since they earn so much more by simply being in the EPL.

 

I think they could do without the hassle of weegies infesting their manor and causing trouble.

 

Indeed. The Arse Cheeks get an easy ride from Scottish football and legal authorities, they would be slaughtered in the English courts for their behaviour.

 

I almost hope that it happens.

[alwaysthereinspirit]

It's all just kite-flying at the moment.

They still have to get this voted in & I can see fans groups petitioning their own clubs protesting about this going ahead tbh.

What constitutes "top flight" teams? I would hope as a fan owned club we'd be voting 100% against such a scenario right off the bat and defeating it at stage 1.

[Bazzas right boot]

Precisely. I don't know who disgusts me most. The arrogant tossers who think we are here specifically to take it up the farter for them or the pricks at Hampden who apply the lubricant on their behalf.

Yip, and some folk even on here think we need them.

 

Horrible institutions.

 

The colt teams of top sides mixing with the league is ok tho, all clubs could benefit.

[Cairneyhill Jambo]

UEFA will not sanction it. They have said so numerous times.

It will never happen it's just more sabre rattling from the bigot brothers.

If it ever was to happen then Scottish clubs only have themselves to blame for allowing the farce in the first place, too many wee teams licking the arses of the OF with their hands out like the scene from Oliver "Please sir can I have some more?"

The nail could have been firmly hammered into sevco 4 years ago but our chicken shit clubs backed down. No one to blame but ourselves

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I take it UEFA sanctioned 4 Irish teams playing in the Irn Bru Cup??

[Hashimoto]

No chance that any Scottish team will join the English leagues......As well documented on these pages......Why would the English want us? This is just the usual back page hysterics in the hope that someone will actually buy a red top rag. More chance of a reinvented Atlantic league, or exclusive Champions league happening IMO. Whilst I'm at it, lets drop the so called U20 development league and bring back a proper reserve league.....That way we might actually see players develop.....And please let an Edinburgh based club actually play it's home games in Edinburgh!  

[Hagar the Horrible]

No chance that any Scottish team will join the English leagues......As well documented on these pages......Why would the English want us? This is just the usual back page hysterics in the hope that someone will actually buy a red top rag. More chance of a reinvented Atlantic league, or exclusive Champions league happening IMO. Whilst I'm at it, lets drop the so called U20 development league and bring back a proper reserve league.....That way we might actually see players develop.....And please let an Edinburgh based club actually play it's home games in Edinburgh!  

To be fair on this occasion it was triggered by members of the English league, they are exploring the possibility of having 5 leagues of 20, but there is debate as to who would be invited into  this 5th league?  if it was the OF or indeed say our big six, it would start from the bottom, no fast track to the top.  It was the SMSM that have put 2 & 2 together to come up with a cover story on a slow news month.  I would laugh my tits off, if Hearts, Hibs the Sheep and the Arabs were invited but not the OF!!!!

 

THe thing that annoys me is the colt system, having one set of the OF in our league is bad enough but doubling he size of the ugly face of our society is madness.  for me return back to a reserve league, it is ageist against anybody over 21 in the current set-up hence so many players out on loan.

[jambosdad]

You do realise the idea of OF teams going to lower league grounds

will have all Chairmen rubbing their hands at the extra money coming there way.

Look what happened in Championship when wee team, us and Sevco rolled up.

They would vote for it big time.

[Beast Boy]

You do realise the idea of OF teams going to lower league grounds

will have all Chairmen rubbing their hands at the extra money coming there way.

Look what happened in Championship when wee team, us and Sevco rolled up.

They would vote for it big time.

They probably would. The fans probably won't though, and that was what made the difference last time with Rangers -II being slotted in to the top flight.

[topcat]

.

[Jambo 4 Ever]

Maybe Budge will have a say on this

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Playing in the English 5th tier means no champions league cash, you can just imagine the loss in revenue (potentially ?30m) they'd have to forgo. Tv cash will never fill that gap for at least 4 years of constant promotion to where the big money is.

 

For me it's a non starter, more chance of a European league set up with guaranteed C.L. places from Uefa to keep that large revenue stream coming in to pay wages/running costs etc.

 

The difference is that the arse cheeks would immediately have the second- and eighth-largest stadia in English football (prem included), and for at least the first few years would likely be filling them fairly full.  That's enough revenue to drive a rise through the ranks.

 

Again, I'm not saying this scenario is good, but if it happens, betting against them making the EPL in the next decade and staying there for a while is a stupid bet.  And if they make the EPL, the CL payout will be a pittance compared to what they get there.

 

The question will be if they want to give up on European nights for a good long while.  And given UEFA's determination to lock smaller nation clubs out of the group stages, those might be going away anyway.

[Beast Boy]

They've went without CL money for most seasons recently anyway.

[Alva-Jambo]

This can't occur or Scotland would lose their International independence.  

[davy25841]

The only good putting any Scottish team in an English league would mean reasonable transfer values.

 

 

Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

[Watt-Zeefuik]

S.T. cash alone won't pay the high wages never mind service debts etc, that would have to change, even if they eventually made it to the top tier I'd doubt they'd finish high enough to get a C.L. place either.

 

4 years of hoping for yearly promotion then hoping to beat & finish above Man Utd/city-Liverpool-Arsenal-Chelsea etc for C.L. Games ?. A big gamble imo,

 

I'm not expecting they would reach the CL -- I think they likely wouldn't unless one of them gets a bigger benefactor than Dave King.  But Celtic's CL payout this year would be, what, ?30 million?  Every EPL club this season will be getting at *least* ?55 million of TV money, plus more depending on their finish.

 

In other words, financially, just making it to the EPL is a bigger financial windfall than making the CL group stages.

[Beast Boy]

I'm not expecting they would reach the CL -- I think they likely wouldn't unless one of them gets a bigger benefactor than Dave King. But Celtic's CL payout this year would be, what, ?30 million? Every EPL club this season will be getting at *least* ?55 million of TV money, plus more depending on their finish.

 

In other words, financially, just making it to the EPL is a bigger financial windfall than making the CL group stages.

Every EPL team gets at least ?100m I think.

[Wolfstar]

Talk sport last night was discussing the money in the EPL and how it is starting to kill the excitement of the league. ?146m for finishing first and it drops ?2m a place until bottom. They argued that why would arsenal spend ?120m on 3x world class players they need to win the league when they are good enough to finish 4th, the financial benefit to the club does not amount to taking the gamble to challenge. Tottenham are very similar, over the last 6 years there net spend on players bought and sold is zero.

 

They then talked at length on the 10bottom clubs and how there goal is to basically finish 17th which is causing more boring games where a point is worth defending for.

 

The championship in England this transfer window spent over ?200m. Money will kill the game in England as the fans don't really matter, the gate revenue is now insignificant to TV and sponsorship.

 

At least in Scotland with clubs like our own you feel part of the club, you matter, Christ we saved our club raising ?2m, we have chances of winning a cup and a slim chance of possibly challenging in the next few seasons and some people want to swap this to play burton Albion away to hope one day we could get to the promised land where the fans end up being 2nd to the corporate sponsor.

 

If the old firm stay then I relish the challenge of trying to top them, if they go then I look forward to is challenging for a rejuvenated league title.

[andy65]

Talk sport last night was discussing the money in the EPL and how it is starting to kill the excitement of the league. ?146m for finishing first and it drops ?2m a place until bottom. They argued that why would arsenal spend ?120m on 3x world class players they need to win the league when they are good enough to finish 4th, the financial benefit to the club does not amount to taking the gamble to challenge. Tottenham are very similar, over the last 6 years there net spend on players bought and sold is zero.

 

They then talked at length on the 10bottom clubs and how there goal is to basically finish 17th which is causing more boring games where a point is worth defending for.

 

The championship in England this transfer window spent over ?200m. Money will kill the game in England as the fans don't really matter, the gate revenue is now insignificant to TV and sponsorship.

 

At least in Scotland with clubs like our own you feel part of the club, you matter, Christ we saved our club raising ?2m, we have chances of winning a cup and a slim chance of possibly challenging in the next few seasons and some people want to swap this to play burton Albion away to hope one day we could get to the promised land where the fans end up being 2nd to the corporate sponsor.

 

If the old firm stay then I relish the challenge of trying to top them, if they go then I look forward to is challenging for a rejuvenated league title.

Interesting points , the message to all should be 'be careful what you wish for' money is killing the game or more the pursuit of it !! Did so in Italy and is getting there with the EPL as you say also in Spain .

 

The problem is can it ever really be stopped !!

[adayinmay]

As much as 'losing' the OF would please me and leave us with a far healthier league I think it would be the beginning of the road to Team GB.

FIFA have wanted that for years, they'd sure hasten the eventuality.

[luckydug]

Anyone else think that this EPL/Sky TV bubble is unsustainable.

If it was to burst around 4/5 years after the OF left Scotland it would be amusing.

[N Lincs Jambo]

You do realise the idea of OF teams going to lower league grounds

will have all Chairmen rubbing their hands at the extra money coming there way.

Look what happened in Championship when wee team, us and Sevco rolled up.

They would vote for it big time.

 

The difference that time was that was our only place to play. It would be very different if the OF 1st teams were playing at the same time. Even if they weren't, how many of their fans would be able to afford forking out for an extra 36 games a season for a very sub-standard product?

[Schevchenko]

Did rangers not beg to be kept in the scottish leagues 4 years ago??

[jbee647]

As much as 'losing' the OF would please me and leave us with a far healthier league I think it would be the beginning of the road to Team GB.

FIFA have wanted that for years, they'd sure hasten the eventuality.

 

If we go down this route I'd say Team GB or just England Would be a certainty within 10 years.

Scotland's national team would exist in the way that Catalonia or Surinam exists playing the occasional challenge match

[Maroon tinted glasses 2]

Just cant see how anybody (other than pipedreams) could see this happening. Scottish Football is a joke in England and the NOF would bring nothing (other than vile hatered) to the table but would be entitled to a chunk of the pie that could be destined to other English teams so they wont allow this to happen.

 

Scotland is about to push for independence once more and want to remain part of the EU so if this were the case and Scotland got what it wanted then border controls ect would come into play which would be yet another headache to consider.

 

RE the colt team situation, i would hope the rest of the Scottish football setup would stand up and be counted to block this ludicrous idea and more importantly I would hope that we as a club stand high and voice our opinion against this. 

[Hashimoto]

I believe that the spending by English premier clubs is unsustainable......very much a pay today, worry tomorrow scenario. Ridiculous sums paid for "no name" foreign players. The current trend is for attracting far eastern Chinese & Indian viewing markets, which in terms has seen a large increase in far East owners. Clubs not bought because of a family connection or love of the club, but for short term profit.   The question is can Sky and BT Sport really afford to have a long term plan that means continually pumping in money and upping the ante every season and at the same time remain profitable? BT paid somewhere in the region of c?900m for the champions league on a 3-year deal. This was a deliberate gamble by BT to out flank Sky irrespective of cost. In the end this was a deal I believe Sky was happy to lose out on! In conclusion it's inevitable that the bubble will burst, foreign owners, investors will walk away....Again it will be left to the true club supporter to pick up the debris.

[doctor jambo]

I believe that the spending by English premier clubs is unsustainable......very much a pay today, worry tomorrow scenario. Ridiculous sums paid for "no name" foreign players. The current trend is for attracting far eastern Chinese & Indian viewing markets, which in terms has seen a large increase in far East owners. Clubs not bought because of a family connection or love of the club, but for short term profit.   The question is can Sky and BT Sport really afford to have a long term plan that means continually pumping in money and upping the ante every season and at the same time remain profitable? BT paid somewhere in the region of c?900m for the champions league on a 3-year deal. This was a deliberate gamble by BT to out flank Sky irrespective of cost. In the end this was a deal I believe Sky was happy to lose out on! In conclusion it's inevitable that the bubble will burst, foreign owners, investors will walk away....Again it will be left to the true club supporter to pick up the debris.

The problem with this is the debris will be so bad that fans wont be able to pick up - our club was saved by raising a couple of million,

Rangers fans -despite their huge numbers- couldn't raise ?20 million

How could the like of Chelsea raise ?600 million

Or Man Utd raise ?800 million if the owners called it all in/ went bust

[alwaysthereinspirit]

Did rangers not beg to be kept in the scottish leagues 4 years ago??

Game in to disrepute charge in the mail.

Imagine, "Please, please, please let us stay. We need to be in it so we can leave for England in 5 years"

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Yes, but would their fans give up the glamour of C.L. Participation or even winning the league they are in given the clubs they'd then be fighting for it over a bank balance ?.

 

Both sets of fans crave success on the pitch more than a director coverts a bank balance tbh.

 

The thought of the 2 of them in the premiership winning no silverware & being mid table also rans is appealing though [emoji4]

 

Again, though, the glamour of the CL may be taken away from them even if they stay, given UEFA's maneuvering to avoid the breakaway super-league.

 

I agree that the EPL is in a bubble period, though.  There's no way MLS is going to sit idly by and watch $1 billion in US TV revenue go to the EPL over five years and not make a play to move in on that.  (See, big money can't corrupt the game in the US, because MLS has been out to make big money from the very beginning...)  

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Didn't see another thread on this so I'm bumping this one.

 

No invite to be extended to non-English league teams.

 

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/competitions/premiership/old-firm-will-not-be-invited-to-join-english-football-league-1-4237770

 

I'm sure the OF match was a real show in the shop window for them, can't imagine why the league declined...

[VALDOS]

The best outcome for Scottish Football, a quick look through this Forum confirms that there's massive interest in both Cheeks.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

The best outcome for Scottish Football, a quick look through this Forum confirms that there's massive interest in both Cheeks.

Hard to argue when posters like farin post about nothing else.

[i wish jj was my dad]

Hard to argue when posters like farin post about nothing else.

or alternatively people who spend thousands of pounds each season following their clubs get roundly pissed off when the set up is designed to kill competition

[AlimOzturk]

.

[luckydug]

The best outcome for Scottish Football, a quick look through this Forum confirms that there's massive interest in both Cheeks.

 

More like loathing rather than interest.

The rest of the clubs should form a breakaway league and lock them out.

Scotland would be a better place without them.

[Brownbear]

More like loathing rather than interest.

The rest of the clubs should form a breakaway league and lock them out.

Scotland would be a better place without them.

Like it or not, Hearts, Aberdeen, etc. etc., need Rangers and them.

 

Just as we need you lot. To say anything less is trying to be as staunch as you can be.

[Auld Reekin']

Like it or not, Hearts, Aberdeen, etc. etc., need Rangers and them.

 

Just as we need you lot. To say anything less is trying to be as staunch as you can be.

 

How does that work then, particularly for Hearts?

 

We don't "need" you to help boost our home attendances: at present we can happily sell-out Tynecastle without the highly dubious pleasures of your company.

We don't "need" you in order to gain or keep a multi-million pound, mutually-beneficial, phree-munny-for-all TV coverage deal, mainly 'cos there isn't one - the current TV deal for Scottish football is shite, in spite of the continuing presence of the twin erse-cheeks of the Great Unwashed.

 

You need us a lot more than we need you, but that has never stopped either of you hooring yourselves around over the border, lifting up grimy garments to reveal the raggedy, soiled, underwear, beneath. Very wisely, they don't want you down there either and who can blame them?

 

I propose a break-away "Mid-Atlantic League" just for the two of you, with all games played, say, 500 miles west of the British Isles.           

[Beast Boy]

How does that work then, particularly for Hearts?

 

We don't "need" you to help boost our home attendances: at present we can happily sell-out Tynecastle without the highly dubious pleasures of your company.

We don't "need" you in order to gain or keep a multi-million pound, mutually-beneficial, phree-munny-for-all TV coverage deal, mainly 'cos there isn't one - the current TV deal for Scottish football is shite, in spite of the continuing presence of the twin erse-cheeks of the Great Unwashed.

 

You need us a lot more than we need you, but that has never stopped either of you hooring yourselves around over the border, lifting up grimy garments to reveal the raggedy, soiled, underwear, beneath. Very wisely, they don't want you down there either and who can blame them?

 

I propose a break-away "Mid-Atlantic League" just for the two of you, with all games played, say, 500 miles west of the British Isles.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascension_Island

I propose ditching the Atlantic League, for the Pacific League. I'd change the name though. I'd call it the:

 

The Ascension Islands Premiership.

 

Four team league:

 

Celtic

Rangers

Celtic B

Rangers B

 

All teams to relocate to the Ascension Islands and build new stadia and training facilities there. As the biggest Derby in the universe, nobody will be able to get enough of the three OF Derbies a month format.

[John Findlay]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascension_Island

I propose ditching the Atlantic League, for the Pacific League. I'd change the name though. I'd call it the:

 

The Ascension Islands Premiership.

 

Four team league:

 

Celtic

Rangers

Celtic B

Rangers B

 

All teams to relocate to the Ascension Islands and build new stadia and training facilities there. As the biggest Derby in the universe, nobody will be able to get enough of the three OF Derbies a month format.

Ascension Island is in the Atlantic Ocean. So calling it the Pacific league is a no no. Rockall should be the venue for Celtic V Sevco Atlantic League games.

[luckydug]

Like it or not, Hearts, Aberdeen, etc. etc., need Rangers and them.

 

Just as we need you lot. To say anything less is trying to be as staunch as you can be.

 

 

So now that the OF joining the English set up has been knocked back all of a sudden the OF need the rest ?

I would have some respect for that position if some kind of public statement by these two clubs was made to that effect.It would stop this debate continually damaging the game in Scotland

[luckydug]

Like it or not, Hearts, Aberdeen, etc. etc., need Rangers and them.

 

Just as we need you lot. To say anything less is trying to be as staunch as you can be.

 

 

So now that the OF joining the English set up has been knocked back all of a sudden the OF need the rest ?

I would have some respect for that position if some kind of public statement by these two clubs was made to that effect.It would stop this debate continually damaging the game in Scotland

[Beast Boy]

Ascension Island is in the Atlantic Ocean. So calling it the Pacific league is a no no. Rockall should be the venue for Celtic V Sevco Atlantic League games.

So it is. Too early for me. Point remains, stick them there and the rest of us can get on with it.

[Konrad von Carstein]

Like it or not, Hearts, Aberdeen, etc. etc., need Rangers and them.

 

Just as we need you lot. To say anything less is trying to be as staunch as you can be.

A bold statement. Please, do elaborate on the reasons why the 2 teams you mention in particular and the rest in general *need* rangers v2.0.

Aberdeen have managed ok without them for 4 years so perhaps they would be a good starting point for your justification.

[Unknown user]

Like it or not, Hearts, Aberdeen, etc. etc., need Rangers and them.

 

Just as we need you lot. To say anything less is trying to be as staunch as you can be.

Pish, we don't need you

 

You need us because 2 teams can't have a league, but we can have one without you pair no problem. There would be some adjusting required for teams that suckle at your teats but it's not like the Scottish league system will disintegrate.

 

Remember armageddon? Me neither!