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The 2015 General Election Megathread


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Murphy has been assessed as not doing a good job by 38% and 34% think he is doing a good job. After just one month that includes the festive period. Give me strength .

Pretty good figures considering 45% hate him :lol:
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A question out of interest for the anti-labour brigade:

 

Who do you think will fill the left wing sphere that labour were traditionally meant to inhabit (but according to you now do not) - that have a credible hope of ever forming a government at Scotland or UK level?

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A question out of interest for the anti-labour brigade:

 

Who do you think will fill the left wing sphere that labour were traditionally meant to inhabit (but according to you now do not) - that have a credible hope of ever forming a government at Scotland or UK level?

 

The labour that may reform after they get a few kickings at the polls. Voting for them certainly seems to do no good.

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I don't think the SNP will win as many Labour seats as predicted. In fact I think that they stand to win more LibDem seats than Labour ones. But if they keep all they have and gain most Liberal seats (Michael Moore's seat is expected to go blue, Kennedy could hang in and the Islanders only vote Liberal as it's still 1880 up there mean at least 2 or 3 will not be SNP yellow) with a few weaker Labour seats I reckon they've had a good night.

 

I still think on the day some of the majorities through west will be too high for them to win the seats. They will drastically reduce a lot of major majorities though.

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The labour that may reform after they get a few kickings at the polls. Voting for them certainly seems to do no good.

 

I don't think you'll see them move more left than they are now. Which, imo, is to the left of the SNP just muted. Labour are a centre-left party anyway. The idea they will be going in for the Foot manifesto of the 1980s or Militant's policies anytime soon is frankly absurd. Labour sits in the centre-left of most major European socialist parties now. The SNP sit to the right of that as they are generally a more small c conservative party in outlook, look at attitudes to tax, economics and justice for that. 

 

If people want something more radical on the left, vote Green.

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Are any of the pollsters doing anything on predicted turn-outs? Certainly seems more of an appetite for politics than before any GE since 97. 

 

I think we'll some very big majorities chopped down. Points on the board over games in hand after all.

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Are any of the pollsters doing anything on predicted turn-outs? Certainly seems more of an appetite for politics than before any GE since 97. 

 

I think we'll some very big majorities chopped down. Points on the board over games in hand after all.

 

Reckon you'll get a higher turnout in Scotland and in English marginals. Maybe not across the board though. 

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I can't wait until the SNP utterly romp home in May. B)

What policy or policies are you hoping they'll be able to push through with their increased presence at Westminster?
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I saw Keiza Dugdale on the to last night and was struck by the contradictions that seem to affect most unionist politicians.

 

In one breath it's all about how patriotic they are and how they will do their best for Scotland, referring to Holyrood, then next say that's why they are needed at Westminster.

 

Not one politician, apart from that queer looking chap from UKIP, name eludes me, seems to think that major reform of the Westminster political system would be useful. If Labour stood for that, they'd do well in Scotland, I fancy. As it stands, the status quo is not a vote winner up here. There is more to Scottish politics than giving more powers. If we remain in the union, the the structure of that union is just as important.

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David Cockburn I think his name is. A total fruit loop but he loves a bit of SNP bashing :jj:

 

I think you are right about reform of WM being a vote winner. 

 

I am not sure I get your point about representing Scotland's interests at Westminster though - with regards to Dugdale...

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David Cockburn I think his name is. A total fruit loop but he loves a bit of SNP bashing :jj:

 

I think you are right about reform of WM being a vote winner. 

 

I am not sure I get your point about representing Scotland's interests at Westminster though - with regards to Dugdale...

 

Nah, not him.  Carsdale?  The one that was recently elected and talks out of the corner of his mouth.  Either a genetic thing from upper class inbreeding, or the poor man's had a stroke.  Anyway...WM reform is essential, imo, as devolution is a two way mirror.  Again, imo.

 

My point re Dugdale was she wasn't addressing that very point.  Scotland can get all the powers it wants for Holyrood, but until WM is reformed it's irrelevant.  I know she is an MSP and therefore not at WM, but in her role as Deputy she was beating the drum for electing Labour to WM.

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Nah, not him. Carsdale? The one that was recently elected and talks out of the corner of his mouth. Either a genetic thing from upper class inbreeding, or the poor man's had a stroke. Anyway...WM reform is essential, imo, as devolution is a two way mirror. Again, imo.

 

My point re Dugdale was she wasn't addressing that very point. Scotland can get all the powers it wants for Holyrood, but until WM is reformed it's irrelevant. I know she is an MSP and therefore not at WM, but in her role as Deputy she was beating the drum for electing Labour to WM.

Ok - gotcha. Who that is standing for WM is proposing changes to WM? Just the Greens?
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Ok - gotcha. Who that is standing for WM is proposing changes to WM? Just the Greens?

 

UKIP talk of substantial political reform, but no mention of PR, for example, when the chap was on Newsnight.  In fact that's all he said, "substantial political reform" with no detail.  Seems to be UKIP's M.O.!

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Cast No Shadow

What policy or policies are you hoping they'll be able to push through with their increased presence at Westminster?

I hope they pull as many powers away from the corrupt shitehawks in Downing Street as possible. The "main" UK parties couldn't care less about real, major change.

 

Seeing Labour obliterated will be extremely satisfying too.

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I hope they pull as many powers away from the corrupt shitehawks in Downing Street as possible. The "main" UK parties couldn't care less about real, major change.

 

Seeing Labour obliterated will be extremely satisfying too.

That's what the Smith Commission is for. They're not going to get us anymore than that.
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ToadKiller Dog

Poor Edinburgh Eastern Labour have had to cancel their planned burns supper this Saturday which featured Scottish branch deputy manager Keiza Dugdale due to lack of interest .

 

The event in the past attracted over 150 people but this year struggled to reach less than 50 .

Local Labour activists are worried that they can't get a turnout to raise funds in the run up to an election .

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Poor Edinburgh Eastern Labour have had to cancel their planned burns supper this Saturday which featured Scottish branch deputy manager Keiza Dugdale due to lack of interest .

 

The event in the past attracted over 150 people but this year struggled to reach less than 50 .

Local Labour activists are worried that they can't get a turnout to raise funds in the run up to an election .

:lol:

 

Did the glorious 45 not picket the last big labour dinner and film them all going in whilst shouting abuse at them all - then put the footage all over the internet? (classy btw)

 

No wonder people don't want to go to public events. 

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Mag, you're starting to sound alot like Sergay.

 

Obsessed.

Criticising me to deflect the point.

 

I'm interested in politics. There are lots of political threads on here.

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If Scottish Labour dies UK Labour will follow. This is the heart of the Labour movement in the UK. And by that I include the Trade Unions. If the Unions lack their political representation it'll be back to the 19th century for the Unions and their members.

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If Scottish Labour dies UK Labour will follow. This is the heart of the Labour movement in the UK. And by that I include the Trade Unions. If the Unions lack their political representation it'll be back to the 19th century for the Unions and their members.

This desperation to see and end to labour does strike me as being turkeys looking to see an end to the thing that stands between them and Christmas.
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This desperation to see and end to labour does strike me as being turkeys looking to see an end to the thing that stands between them and Christmas.

It was a tactical error of Labour to stand shoulder to shoulder with the Tories. It confirmed up to then an unfounded prejudice that in Scotland they were a party of Blair. Which was never the case. Piss poor political reporting or coverage of Scottish politics by the national broadcasters for Scotland allowed a lot of back ground disputes between UK leadership and Scottish leaders to go unnoticed. McConnell was frequently described by Number 10 as a nuisance and uncontrollable for Blair and Brown. McConnell equally blames Brown for running a campaign from the Treasury in 2007 above his head.

 

McConnell's successor was equally a handful for London but the SNP threat to vote for disciplining her of a charge the electoral commission cleared her of saw end to her. And then the two nobodies got in control.

 

The manifestos in Scotland have always been to the left of the UK party and much of the SNPs claimed achievements are Labour ones.

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This desperation to see and end to labour does strike me as being turkeys looking to see an end to the thing that stands between them and Christmas.

Nothing wrong with some good old fashioned accelerationism.

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If Scottish Labour dies UK Labour will follow. This is the heart of the Labour movement in the UK. And by that I include the Trade Unions. If the Unions lack their political representation it'll be back to the 19th century for the Unions and their members.

You mean the formation of a political party that will represent the well being of the working class and not kiss the arse of the bourgeoise and capitalist class that exploit said people?

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The Mighty Thor

David Cockburn I think his name is. A total fruit loop but he loves a bit of SNP bashing :jj:

 

I think you are right about reform of WM being a vote winner.

 

I am not sure I get your point about representing Scotland's interests at Westminster though - with regards to Dugdale...

:jjyay: indeed.

 

He got his are handed to him in a twitter spat with SNP's Humza Yousaf.

 

* I can't get the link up but its quite amusing.

Edited by The Mighty Thor
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maroonlegions

But politics has always been based on a degree of 'consensus' between parties. A lot of the Coalition aims and policies are shared across the UK by many parties on left and right. The SNP, Plaid, DUP, SDLP, Labour, Lib Dem and Tories all share certain common themes on how the economy runs (all don't want to overly constrain the market and all want a vibrant City), they are all in league over the EU (all want to be in) and in the case of most NATO and all want some degree of far reaching reform to Welfare.

 

The post-war consensus replaced the war time one which replaced the depression one, which replaced the post war boom of the early 1920s. The post-war Attlee consensus was replaced by the Thatcherite one and now we're going through what you could call a post-Blairite one at a UK level and a post-Salmond one now.

 

Elections cannot see huge swings in direction all the time. Sadly globalisation as a process has handed power to floating corporate bodies meaning governments have less control nationally to control events and their economies. Which in turn means there's little need going left or right.

 

Well in a nut shell, its the banks and the corporate elite calling the shots and influencing party manifestos no matter how the politicians of any political party dress and spin things up for the gullible electorate then.Too much self  money interests from not only the back benchers  of all parties but their puppets running for number 10.

Edited by maroonlegions
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Well in a nut shell, its the banks and the corporate elite calling the shots and influencing party manifestos no matter how the politicians of any political party dress and spin things up for the gullible electorate then.Too much self money interests from not only the back benchers of all parties but their puppets running for number 10.

Agree. But that exists all over the western world and increasingly other parts of the world where globalisation is working its way in. It even happens at Bute House. The oil lobby is the biggest at Holyrood. Followed by the likes of First group, stagecoach and some public bodies with a vested interest like the police.

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Psychedelicropcircle

Wot labour don't seem to be getting is during the indyref people dug deep into info to make a decision. It was a passionate campaign it's still fresh in folks minds . As said previously they ran a negative campaign stood back whilst heads of industry told us theres no oil banks would leave etc nhs is safe / join us to save the nhs days later. The 190000 yes voters who they were quite happy to say 'oh I don't think I can win you round during indyref but are now more willing to try due to fear of a wipe out in Scotland. For me wot Jim stood for politically before becoming branch manager and wot he says he's for now is everything that's wrong with being a career politician.

 

Reap / sow.

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You mean the formation of a political party that will represent the well being of the working class and not kiss the arse of the bourgeoise and capitalist class that exploit said people?

But the unions are lead by the bourgeoisie as well now. What policies in a modern world that can be implemented which won't see a flight of capital and business abroad?

 

Incremental and pragmatic changes are what's needed. Markets are global now. We let that happen for cheaper goods and access to seasonal goods all year round. It's irreversible. Democratising can work and should happen. I'd like to see workers on remuneration panels of big companies. Reforming energy markets. Renationalising railways. Regulating buses. Housing co-ops. Getting rid of child tax credits and using the money more effectively on child care. Provide better local run amenities and access to sport and culture for free. Things like that. Those help people.

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Wot labour don't seem to be getting is during the indyref people dug deep into info to make a decision. It was a passionate campaign it's still fresh in folks minds . As said previously they ran a negative campaign stood back whilst heads of industry told us theres no oil banks would leave etc nhs is safe / join us to save the nhs days later. The 190000 yes voters who they were quite happy to say 'oh I don't think I can win you round during indyref but are now more willing to try due to fear of a wipe out in Scotland. For me wot Jim stood for politically before becoming branch manager and wot he says he's for now is everything that's wrong with being a career politician.

 

Reap / sow.

One was a Constituitonal debate about where power lies and who thought what was the best constitutional set up for Scotland. The other is a policy debate about what set of ideas and policies should lead the nation.

 

Personally the only party to come out good of the referendum was the Greens. He rest were shown up in a bad light.

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If Scottish Labour dies UK Labour will follow. This is the heart of the Labour movement in the UK. And by that I include the Trade Unions. If the Unions lack their political representation it'll be back to the 19th century for the Unions and their members.

you sound awfully like you're blaming the people for labour being contemptible.

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you sound awfully like you're blaming the people for labour being contemptible.

I believe if you read the rest of my post I also point the finger at the leadership of Scottish Labour for being frankly purile and unimaginative. They were up against a blowhard. Nothing more and they couldn't out do him once.

 

Scottish Labour simply ran out of ideas at the top. It's base never ran out of ideas. But the top didn't listen and they're a rump of their former selves.

 

The 1980s and 1990s never really happened for Scottish Labour. It's now only realising the old 1970s style of class politics is dead and they've been found wanting in a pluralistic Scotland (then again the electors of Scotland seem to only back one horse at a time).

 

Don't think these people are necessarily bad people. Gray and Lamont meant well, they were just never up for the job.

 

What I'd add though is much of the Scotland the SNP seek to conserve (wrongly to me as it was never perfect and society needs to change and adapt going forward) is Labour built. The SNP inherited no tuition fees, they inherited free personal care, a smoking ban, a schools for the future plan and a more confident nation. The changes that needed made in 2007 and beyond were around revitalising local democracy and empowering communities not conserving centralism at Holyrood.

 

They moan about not enough power from London but they hoard what they can from local communities and local people. Scotland is at a cross roads. Repeat Westminster's mistakes or embrace continental localism.

Edited by JamboX2
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you sound awfully like you're blaming the people for labour being contemptible.

I also think the SNP have sold a bogey and are no where near as progressive as they claim to be. Unions don't trust them and nor does the left of the real left of the Yes movement. A lot of bad blood with the SNP and others.

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maroonlegions

Agree. But that exists all over the western world and increasingly other parts of the world where globalisation is working its way in. It even happens at Bute House. The oil lobby is the biggest at Holyrood. Followed by the likes of First group, stagecoach and some public bodies with a vested interest like the police.

Yes i see were you are coming from, the danger is the public will be voting for the representatives of the corporate elite ect and their political manifestos and not in their,(the publics) interest or what those political parties are promising in return for their votes.  Is this why so many pre election promises are broken or contradicted by those who gain power into number 10??

Edited by maroonlegions
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Psychedelicropcircle

One was a Constituitonal debate about where power lies and who thought what was the best constitutional set up for Scotland. The other is a policy debate about what set of ideas and policies should lead the nation.

Personally the only party to come out good of the referendum was the Greens. He rest were shown up in a bad light.

We know this but you can't be the unionist 4 months ago & now the scottish patriot now.

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We know this but you can't be the unionist 4 months ago & now the scottish patriot now.

Why are they mutually exclusive?

 

Personally I don't think I'm either. But that's me. People who do subscribe to these tags can be patriotic Scots who believe in Union. We were told by the SNP too often that you could vote for independence and still be British. So why not fiercely proud Scots who are happy to be in the Union?

 

This is how bad Scottish politics is. Why the constant need to find a label for each other. The referendum is over. The people spoke. We are all Scots. Drop the labels and division on the constitution and talk about policy. I really don't care if they'll stand up for Scotland. What does that do? Nothing. I want them to stand for ideas and a vision of society. The fact that the SNP and Labour are trying to out 'Scottish' each other is absolutely pathetic.

 

There's more the SNP, Labour and Greens agree on than don't. In fact Sturgeon acknowledges this by openly saying she'd prefer a Labour government to a Tory one.

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We know this but you can't be the unionist 4 months ago & now the scottish patriot now.

Nonsense. You can be a Scottish patriot and a unionist. Or are those that are pro-EU not patriots either?

 

Once of the most sinister aspects of nationalism - 'support us or you're not a real Scot'.

 

People ask me why I hate the SNP.

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Albert Tatlock

Jim Murphy in a Food Bank...Blah blah...more people should have access to a Food Bank...

 

No, Jim...I'm the 21st Century, in a First World country, a Food Bank would an embarrassment. Nothing to advertise/be proud of at all.

 

Said my bit....not abusive, hopefully won't get suspended this time.

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Psychedelicropcircle

Nonsense. You can be a Scottish patriot and a unionist. Or are those that are pro-EU not patriots either?

 

Once of the most sinister aspects of nationalism - 'support us or you're not a real Scot'.

 

People ask me why I hate the SNP.

You can as in you but if youre a politician who whilst campaigning for the Union and in doing so using politics of fear & negativity then the same people you need weeks later your now not a unionist. The polls say you can't do this.

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You can as in you but if youre a politician who whilst campaigning for the Union and in doing so using politics of fear & negativity then the same people you need weeks later your now not a unionist. The polls say you can't do this.

Both sides engagd in negative campaigning. No slammed independence as a dead end to nothing and the Yes camp made out we were victims and being held back. No said we'd be poor, Yes said we were being robbed. It was all negative. Not once did either side set out a vision of a better country.

 

Neither side then nor are Labour and the SNP now covering themselves in glory. You can't be in the SNP four months ago saying a Labour government is as bad as a Tory one and now arguing you'd back one in office by the same logic.

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Then why are the SNP 50% in the polls?

Not the point. You're now saying the SNP can have their cake and eat it but the Labour Party can't. But if I was to say why the SNP are were they are I'd say they've done a good job in government in managing the nation, little reform or action, but good management. They're also ably led and their profile grew in the referendum. Scottish Labour was the opposite in that time.

 

We're also in a total point of utter political flux and fall out after the referendum. I reckon by 2016 that will have died out and a more accurate reflection of the SNP in office may well be presented in the polls. Greens growing and the fall out of the 2015 election will make the scottish election of 2016 interesting.

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Cast No Shadow

That's what the Smith Commission is for. They're not going to get us anymore than that.

I wouldn't be so sure tbh.

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Both sides engagd in negative campaigning. No slammed independence as a dead end to nothing and the Yes camp made out we were victims and being held back. No said we'd be poor, Yes said we were being robbed. It was all negative. Not once did either side set out a vision of a better country.

 

Neither side then nor are Labour and the SNP now covering themselves in glory. You can't be in the SNP four months ago saying a Labour government is as bad as a Tory one and now arguing you'd back one in office by the same logic.

 

Quotes from SNP Ministers saying a Labour Government would be as bad as the Tories, please.

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