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The 2015 General Election Megathread

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JamboX2

Been reading a lot of Scottish and English Green sites and blogs relating to them recently. They are an interesting development and I hope in Scotland and England they win seats for Westminster as they are a real left alternative to not only Labour and the Liberals but to the SNP. They have really started playing a blinder in Scotland and I'd expect a good showing in 2016 under the List in Scotland.

 

Reading some sites the SNP members are still calling for alliances and pacts to help 'yes prosper'. But his is meeting a brick wall of you had your chance and blew it with critiques of a centralised Scotland, a one nation police force and a centre right economic plan being thrown back at them. They really show up the leftist talk of the SNP much better than Labour has done and probably can do.

 

I hope they get a hearing in any debates as it will offer voters a hearing from an alternative on the left as voters on the right get a chance to pick their right wing choice of Tory or UKIP.

 

I've done some digging and Harvie and Bennet are agreed to be a national UK pact for Westminster as sister parties. Meaning agreed common policies and agreed areas to fight on for the UK (imo a dynamic the Scottish Labour and Tory parties should really be looking into as per Murdo Fraser's suggestion in 2011), which in turn means Green representation is a more viable possibility on UK election debates than the devolved focused SNP, Pliad Cymru and Ulster parties.

 

Going forward, Labour and the SNP should be worried. The Greens are offering some real alternatives and offering people the chance to be put first before profit. The Greens are greener than the pro-fossil fuel SNP and want a more democratic economy than Labour with policies for workers on wage boards and nationalised utilities (something on rail the SNP failed on as well).

 

Will be interesting to see how this plays out in Scotland and the UK.

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Cade

Sillyband just announced some policies:

 

Repealing tax cuts for the rich (i.e. tax rises for them)
Mansion tax for homes worth over ?2million

Min wage up to ?8 an hour

Valuing apprenticeships and college courses as much as university degrees (no idea if this means equal funding)

Making sure min wage is paid to everyone

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Geoff Kilpatrick

Been reading a lot of Scottish and English Green sites and blogs relating to them recently. They are an interesting development and I hope in Scotland and England they win seats for Westminster as they are a real left alternative to not only Labour and the Liberals but to the SNP. They have really started playing a blinder in Scotland and I'd expect a good showing in 2016 under the List in Scotland.

 

Reading some sites the SNP members are still calling for alliances and pacts to help 'yes prosper'. But his is meeting a brick wall of you had your chance and blew it with critiques of a centralised Scotland, a one nation police force and a centre right economic plan being thrown back at them. They really show up the leftist talk of the SNP much better than Labour has done and probably can do.

 

I hope they get a hearing in any debates as it will offer voters a hearing from an alternative on the left as voters on the right get a chance to pick their right wing choice of Tory or UKIP.

 

I've done some digging and Harvie and Bennet are agreed to be a national UK pact for Westminster as sister parties. Meaning agreed common policies and agreed areas to fight on for the UK (imo a dynamic the Scottish Labour and Tory parties should really be looking into as per Murdo Fraser's suggestion in 2011), which in turn means Green representation is a more viable possibility on UK election debates than the devolved focused SNP, Pliad Cymru and Ulster parties.

 

Going forward, Labour and the SNP should be worried. The Greens are offering some real alternatives and offering people the chance to be put first before profit. The Greens are greener than the pro-fossil fuel SNP and want a more democratic economy than Labour with policies for workers on wage boards and nationalised utilities (something on rail the SNP failed on as well).

 

Will be interesting to see how this plays out in Scotland and the UK.

 

Yep, environmental communism is just the ticket for those filled with middle class angst!

 

That's exactly the votes the Greens attract here and is undoubtedly the same in the UK.

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Rand Paul's Ray Bans

Fantasy economics isn't a very appealing alternative.

 

It's a shame: if the Greens get it right they could have a big say in British politics in years to come (they've more members now than UKIP).

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JamboX2

Whilst I think a ?10 minimum wage should be paid by those who can afford it and not the corner shop and that there is a real and pressing need for nuclear power in the future. I don't think there's much wrong with not renewing Trident, more council housing, rent caps, a robin hood tax and rebalancing the economy is a must. 

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Geoff Kilpatrick

Whilst I think a ?10 minimum wage should be paid by those who can afford it and not the corner shop and that there is a real and pressing need for nuclear power in the future. I don't think there's much wrong with not renewing Trident, more council housing, rent caps, a robin hood tax and rebalancing the economy is a must.

The Robin Hood tax is a laughable idea. Stamp duty is already applied on transactions. Then to unilaterally apply another tax would just see those trades take place in New York or Singapore or Frankfurt, meaning no revenue at all.

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djf

Massie may have a fine line in witticism but he's lacking in economic awareness. Just because he has been duped by the 'austerity is the one true way' mantra doesn't make it right. Wonder what Krugman, economist of the year amongst Unionists, would have to say about his article.

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Psychedelicropcircle

Liebour clause four (Scotland branch) to work and help achieve the aims of the Labour Party.

 

Once again more spin. When the polls continue to favour the snp as time draws in, I predict all unionist parties to start the fear mongering a vote for snp is a vote for separation even though the SNP have declared Indy is not on the cards.

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JamboX2

Liebour clause four (Scotland branch) to work and help achieve the aims of the Labour Party.

 

Once again more spin. When the polls continue to favour the snp as time draws in, I predict all unionist parties to start the fear mongering a vote for snp is a vote for separation even though the SNP have declared Indy is not on the cards.

 

Is this spin going to be better than labeling a party Liebour? 

 

Polls in Scotland are now showing Labour rise up in the polls again. Think the lead the SNP hold in panelbase today is 10 points. Whilst not great a huge improvement on recent months. 

 

There is also the fact the SNP's own top MSPs seem to think we are on the verge of it all again... http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/second-indyref-in-a-few-years-kenny-macaskill-1-3663604 

 

I voted Yes. But surely the people have spoken and it's time to move on. The last two major constitutional referendums on a par with this was the EU one and the devolution referendum in 1997. The losing side in both of these votes accepted the outcome and made the best of the situation. In fact but for devolution the Tories would be extinct in Scotland. The SNP should accept the outcome and make the best of the extensive powers they have. Frankly, they've done little with what they have and what they have done has been in some cases detrimental to Scotland's local democracy and to attempts to cut poverty and social inequality in Scotland.

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Psychedelicropcircle

When clause 4 isn't clause 4 it's a lie x2. No spin.

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Geoff Kilpatrick

Massie may have a fine line in witticism but he's lacking in economic awareness. Just because he has been duped by the 'austerity is the one true way' mantra doesn't make it right. Wonder what Krugman, economist of the year amongst Unionists, would have to say about his article.

What is this "austerity" you speak of? The UK is still running a ridiculously high budget deficit.

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Rand Paul's Ray Bans

The Treasury is maintaining its current spending with the fruits of the magic money tree.

 

No party is currently proposing severing ties with the magic money tree, either. 

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JamboX2

When clause 4 isn't clause 4 it's a lie x2. No spin.

Clause 4 never existed when Keir Hardie led the party in the 1900s. Was an invention of the post 1918 election debacle. The new Clause 4 for Scottish Labour is better than what existed before. Commitment to localism, democratic socialism and to Scotland. Better than the old one which was 2 lines.

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Psychedelicropcircle

When the scottish gov are given a budget via block grant and maintained it 7 yrs on the bounce, then the establishment parties treble uk debt in the same time, it won't take long to work out who uses the Magic money tree.

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Ulysses

What is this "austerity" you speak of? The UK is still running a ridiculously high budget deficit.

 

Has the UK's deficit now gotten bigger than Ireland's?  :eek:

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Geoff Kilpatrick

Has the UK's deficit now gotten bigger than Ireland's? :eek:

Fair point.

 

Germany says it's ok though. :P

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Socrates

Is this spin going to be better than labeling a party Liebour? 

 

Polls in Scotland are now showing Labour rise up in the polls again. Think the lead the SNP hold in panelbase today is 10 points. Whilst not great a huge improvement on recent months. 

 

There is also the fact the SNP's own top MSPs seem to think we are on the verge of it all again... http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/second-indyref-in-a-few-years-kenny-macaskill-1-3663604 

 

I voted Yes. But surely the people have spoken and it's time to move on. The last two major constitutional referendums on a par with this was the EU one and the devolution referendum in 1997. The losing side in both of these votes accepted the outcome and made the best of the situation. In fact but for devolution the Tories would be extinct in Scotland. The SNP should accept the outcome and make the best of the extensive powers they have. Frankly, they've done little with what they have and what they have done has been in some cases detrimental to Scotland's local democracy and to attempts to cut poverty and social inequality in Scotland.

 

Except for the other poll yesterday which had the SNP 20 points ahead of Labour still.

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maroonlegions

I for one  will not be forgetting this coalition  and the shower of utter liars and crooks that they are, politicians to  me no longer serve  the public that  elect them, they simply now  serve the corporate elite or the interests and wants of the multinationals to whom they the positions have various vested money investments ect in themselves..Nothing really changes every five years the amount of broken pre election promises by the Cons and Labour over the years is self evident enough for me to perceive they are self servant to themselves and to the corporate elite who their policies ect really serve.

 

 

 

gl15.jpg

 

No i will not be wearing red as the bottom right hand of this picture asks  but the content of the above picture  is showing a gradual and  transparent nasty side of  just were this coalition is heading and the Liberals too for that matter.  

Edited by maroonlegions

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JamboX2

I for one will not be forgetting this coalition and the shower of utter liars and crooks that they are, politicians to me no longer serve the public that elect them, they simply now serve the corporate elite or the interests and wants of the multinationals to whom they the positions have various vested money investments ect in themselves..Nothing really changes every five years the amount of broken pre election promises by the Cons and Labour over the years is self evident enough for me to perceive they are self servant to themselves and to the corporate elite who their policies ect really serve.

 

 

 

gl15.jpg

 

No i will not be wearing red as the bottom right hand of this picture asks but the content of the above picture is showing a gradual and transparent nasty side of just were this coalition is heading and the Liberals too for that matter.

But politics has always been based on a degree of 'consensus' between parties. A lot of the Coalition aims and policies are shared across the UK by many parties on left and right. The SNP, Plaid, DUP, SDLP, Labour, Lib Dem and Tories all share certain common themes on how the economy runs (all don't want to overly constrain the market and all want a vibrant City), they are all in league over the EU (all want to be in) and in the case of most NATO and all want some degree of far reaching reform to Welfare.

 

The post-war consensus replaced the war time one which replaced the depression one, which replaced the post war boom of the early 1920s. The post-war Attlee consensus was replaced by the Thatcherite one and now we're going through what you could call a post-Blairite one at a UK level and a post-Salmond one now.

 

Elections cannot see huge swings in direction all the time. Sadly globalisation as a process has handed power to floating corporate bodies meaning governments have less control nationally to control events and their economies. Which in turn means there's little need going left or right.

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Gorgiewave

Could Geoff say why he prefers the UUP? Out of curiosity.

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IMac

I for one  will not be forgetting this coalition  and the shower of utter liars and crooks that they are, politicians to  me no longer serve  the public that  elect them, they simply now  serve the corporate elite or the interests and wants of the multinationals to whom they the positions have various vested money investments ect in themselves..Nothing really changes every five years the amount of broken pre election promises by the Cons and Labour over the years is self evident enough for me to perceive they are self servant to themselves and to the corporate elite who their policies ect really serve.

 

 

 

gl15.jpg

 

No i will not be wearing red as the bottom right hand of this picture asks  but the content of the above picture  is showing a gradual and  transparent nasty side of  just were this coalition is heading and the Liberals too for that matter.  

 

 

If

If only we had the levers of power we could do things slightly different but I wont't say how or what levers.

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Geoff Kilpatrick

Could Geoff say why he prefers the UUP? Out of curiosity.

To the DUP? Seriously?

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JamboX2

Could Geoff say why he prefers the UUP? Out of curiosity.

Perhaps their Paisleyism. Never, never... Oh I'm First Minister?

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TheMaganator

Despite 47% believing that the SNP 'generally were not truthful' (told massive porkies) about the economics of independence they're still being backed in numbers.

 

I don't know if this says more about the quality of the opposition or the mentality of SNP voters.

 

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/scots-back-snp-huge-numbers-5007758

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Boris

Despite 47% believing that the SNP 'generally were not truthful' (told massive porkies) about the economics of independence they're still being backed in numbers.

 

I don't know if this says more about the quality of the opposition or the mentality of SNP voters.

 

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/scots-back-snp-huge-numbers-5007758

 

Or perhaps the lies and distortion coming out of Westminster (We're all in it together, remember!) are currently deemed worse by the electorate?

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TheMaganator

Was there not one out the other day saying the gap had been closed by 10 points?

 

Interestingly, I see the SNP have changed their stance and will now vote on English only matters in Westminster. 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/11360260/Nicola-Sturgeon-SNP-MPs-will-vote-on-English-only-matters.html

 

Also equally interesting are the videos coming out of Dundee where a mob of Yes supporters are following Murphy round door-to-door heckling him and shouting at those who answer the door as he campaigns - shouting abuse, dropping the 'q' word etc.

 

Lovely stuff in 2015 Scotland. Three cheers for nationalism.  

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Psychedelicropcircle

Wots the Q word mag?

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Socrates

Was there not one out the other day saying the gap had been closed by 10 points?

 

Interestingly, I see the SNP have changed their stance and will now vote on English only matters in Westminster. 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/11360260/Nicola-Sturgeon-SNP-MPs-will-vote-on-English-only-matters.html

 

Also equally interesting are the videos coming out of Dundee where a mob of Yes supporters are following Murphy round door-to-door heckling him and shouting at those who answer the door as he campaigns - shouting abuse, dropping the 'q' word etc.

 

Lovely stuff in 2015 Scotland. Three cheers for nationalism.  

 

There have been three polls. One had the SNP 10 points ahead, another had them 20 points clear, and this one had them 28 points ahead. Little sign of the big-hitting Murphy making a difference.

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TheMaganator

Wots the Q word mag?

It's now banned on here but it is another word for traitor

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Psychedelicropcircle

Not sure I've got wot Q is.......Still nae Danny Alexander and Ruth who had a wonderful referendum getting the just rewards.

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Socrates

Not sure I've got wot Q is.......Still nae Danny Alexander and Ruth who had a wonderful referendum getting the just rewards.

 

It's the name of the Norwegian puppet that the Nazis installed when they occupied Norway in 1940. That should give you enough to Google it if you can't guess.

 

The problem for Danny and Ruth is that the only people who think they had a great referendum are already Lib Dem and Tory voters respectively. The rest of the electorate don't appear to share this view.

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Psychedelicropcircle

Ah got you....seen alexander up in an Aviemore bar at the new year, I asked him how he planned to spend the last five months of his last time ever in office!

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dc-jambo

Today's STV poll is of course from IPSOS-MORI, perhaps the UK's most reputable polling firm.

 

And the numbers are: SNP 52 Labour 24

 

:sunny:  :sunny:  :sunny:

 

Yes, a 28 point lead

 

Not sure how the unionists are gonna spin that one away, although I see above that they've already started tryin'

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TheMaganator

Today's STV poll is of course from IPSOS-MORI, perhaps the UK's most reputable polling firm.

 

And the numbers are: SNP 52 Labour 24

 

:sunny:  :sunny:  :sunny:

 

Yes, a 28 point lead

 

Not sure how the unionists are gonna spin that one away, although I see above that they've already started tryin'

It doesn't look good for the non-nationalists

 

This is an interesting article on how it actually may play out in the constituencies - as we know % of vote doesn't necessarily translate to an equivalent number of seats:

 

http://iaindale.com/posts/2015/01/18/general-election-predictions-the-final-results-we-re-heading-for-a-three-party-coalition-or-a-second-election

 

"In Scotland I just cannot see how the SNP can gain the number of seats many people are predicting. Some pundits predict with straight faces that the SNP will sweep the electoral board and end up with 30 to 40 seats. They have 6 at the moment, and try as I might I can?t get them above 18. If they do achieve more than that that it would be a political earthquake of epic proportions. They would be overturning Labour majorities of 15-20,000."

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Socrates

It doesn't look good for the non-nationalists

 

This is an interesting article on how it actually may play out in the constituencies - as we know % of vote doesn't necessarily translate to an equivalent number of seats:

 

http://iaindale.com/posts/2015/01/18/general-election-predictions-the-final-results-we-re-heading-for-a-three-party-coalition-or-a-second-election

 

"In Scotland I just cannot see how the SNP can gain the number of seats many people are predicting. Some pundits predict with straight faces that the SNP will sweep the electoral board and end up with 30 to 40 seats. They have 6 at the moment, and try as I might I can?t get them above 18. If they do achieve more than that that it would be a political earthquake of epic proportions. They would be overturning Labour majorities of 15-20,000."

 

It's still the same "the polls must be bollocks/people won't actually vote that way in May" argument. If the SNP is 15-20% ahead of Labour in real votes, there's no way for Labour to actually win all these seats. The reason Labour has all the great big majorities is that they got loads more votes than the SNP in 2010. If the SNP now get loads more votes than Labour, the big majorities will vanish like Hibs fans at Hampden.

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Rand Paul's Ray Bans

Was there not one out the other day saying the gap had been closed by 10 points?

 

Interestingly, I see the SNP have changed their stance and will now vote on English only matters in Westminster. 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/11360260/Nicola-Sturgeon-SNP-MPs-will-vote-on-English-only-matters.html

 

Also equally interesting are the videos coming out of Dundee where a mob of Yes supporters are following Murphy round door-to-door heckling him and shouting at those who answer the door as he campaigns - shouting abuse, dropping the 'q' word etc.

 

Lovely stuff in 2015 Scotland. Three cheers for nationalism.  

 

Yeah there were three Scottish specific polls out over the last few days (including this one) that has the SNP's lead between ten and twenty-eight points. The polls seem too erratic at the moment to read too much into them.

Edited by Joe Biden's Aviators

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Rand Paul's Ray Bans

How the media will line up, according to Private Eye:

 

B7zCOb9CQAEBjtS.jpg

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JamboX2

How the media will line up, according to Private Eye:

 

B7zCOb9CQAEBjtS.jpg

Add in the Scottish Press:

 

Scotsman 'Salmomd still running SNP. Beware'

 

Herald 'Grudgingly No Choice but Labour'

 

Sunday Herald '6 months till FREEDOM'

 

National 'Boycott the Ballot for Scotland'

 

The Daily Record 'Ed's really McMiliband'

 

Press and Journal 'Sheep smarter than rats, farmer says'

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Cade

Add in the Scottish Press:

 

Scotsman 'Salmomd still running SNP. Beware'

 

Herald 'Grudgingly No Choice but Labour'

 

Sunday Herald '6 months till FREEDOM'

 

National 'Boycott the Ballot for Scotland'

 

The Daily Record 'Ed's really McMiliband'

 

Press and Journal 'Sheep smarter than rats, farmer says'

you forgot The Scottish Daily Mail "eat yer cereal"

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JamboX2

Nicola Sturgeon on C4 News is arguing a dual line which is odd.

 

We will work with 'English progressive forces'. Meaningless crap if we're honest. But admits she would work with Labour.

 

Then, don't vote Labour in Scotland as they aren't progressive, but we won't prop up the Tories as they aren't backed by many Scots (again nonsense on votes cast).

 

In the one breath she concedes that Labour in power is better than the Tories, but we want to harm the formers chances of winning by them loosing seats...

 

They're entitled to do what they want and for voters to back them, but they're really struggling. Not once did they outline a policy they'd enact or push for, instead it was what they won't do. Progressive politics is actually progressing a narrative with actions. Sturgeon just outlined a regressive plan of voting to be nuisances.

 

I want he SNP to outline a vision, an achievable set of aims from a hung parliament rather than prevarication and threats. If they said we will work for a better wage, a fairer welfare reform and say a reformed electoral system then I'd back them. It's this whole language of division and being awkward and bitter which irks me.

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jambos are go!

Today's STV poll is of course from IPSOS-MORI, perhaps the UK's most reputable polling firm.

 

And the numbers are: SNP 52 Labour 24

 

:sunny:  :sunny:  :sunny:

 

Yes, a 28 point lead

 

Not sure how the unionists are gonna spin that one away, although I see above that they've already started tryin'

This is not a referendum and is not about the Union. What makes you think it is?

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Psychedelicropcircle

This is not a referendum and is not about the Union. What makes you think it is?

No but throughout the indyref they did everything the could using politics of fear painting a negative picture of an independent Scotland which (IMO) was really about retaining seats for WM elections I. E the party first people second....I would be rather poetic if they really did help with keeping Scotland in the union only to be near seatless in the WM election.....you reap wot you sow!

Edited by Psychedelicropcircle

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The Comedian

:pleasing:

 

There seems to be a widespread hatred of Labour now. Much deserved.

 

Pleasing events.

 

:jjyay:

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jambos are go!

Murphy has been assessed as not doing a good job by 38% and 34% think he is doing a good job. After just one month that includes the festive period. Give me strength .

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Rand Paul's Ray Bans

oh noes

 

:sob:

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