Boris Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Don't blame them the SNP want to destroy the UK how can they help govern something they want to destroy Actually, they don't want to govern, if you had been listening to anything that has been said. The will support a Labour govt, short of coalition, so no cabinet seats for the SNP, therefore not governing. And, as has been said on numerous occasions, independence isn't on the agenda at this election. The only party actively breaking up the UK at this point in time is the Tory party, with their divide and conquer tactics in this election, their woeful economic programme and their systematic erosion of public services. Ironically, the SNP could be the best thing to happen to the UK in recent years! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieh Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Don't blame them ,the SNP want to destroy the UK . How can they help govern something they want to destroyThats not stopped the other three getting elected for forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Actually, they don't want to govern, if you had been listening to anything that has been said. The will support a Labour govt, short of coalition, so no cabinet seats for the SNP, therefore not governing. And, as has been said on numerous occasions, independence isn't on the agenda at this election. The only party actively breaking up the UK at this point in time is the Tory party, with their divide and conquer tactics in this election, their woeful economic programme and their systematic erosion of public services. Ironically, the SNP could be the best thing to happen to the UK in recent years! I'd put it differently - They want Independence. And in order to gain Independence, they need to show Westminster isn't working. Ergo -why would they want to make a success of the one establishment they need to show is failing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBJambo Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 I'd put it differently - They want Independence. And in order to gain Independence, they need to show Westminster isn't working. Ergo -why would they want to make a success of the one establishment they need to show is failing? Exactly. They will go down there to cause chaos. How is this is good for anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Exactly. They will go down there to cause chaos. How is this is good for anyone? The end-game will be fine. SNP are snookered. If they go down there and show they are a success and adding "clout" for Scotland, this dilutes the cause for Independence, as Scots will see they get a better deal via Westminster and the SNP can't play the "kick the Toffs" card anymore. Conversely, if they cause chaos, and make a mess of things, that will be capitalised on by the opposition and SNP will be shown up to have failed the country, making their credibility collapse. Can't wait! They have messed-up. The old rule "be careful what you ask for" applies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 I'd put it differently - They want Independence. And in order to gain Independence, they need to show Westminster isn't working. Ergo -why would they want to make a success of the one establishment they need to show is failing? So they could take the credit for putting pressure on Labour to be, um, Labour? It also gives them credibility with the electorate up here. Going to Westminster and deliberately screwing things up and then crying foul will not cut any ice with the voters in Scotland. Equally, if they are sidelined by the establishment, then this is what will fuel the "grievance" and from a propaganda point of view could be very useful. Tory campaigning in middle england is already demonising Scots - yes Scots, not just the SNP, but Scots per se. We all know that the SNP isn't Scotland and vice versa, but that subtlety is being lost down South. Exactly. They will go down there to cause chaos. How is this is good for anyone? Calm yourself! Cause chaos? And then that would show them up to be irresponsible and immature. That really would go down well with the electorate here, wouldn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 The end-game will be fine. SNP are snookered. If they go down there and show they are a success and adding "clout" for Scotland, this dilutes the cause for Independence, as Scots will see they get a better deal via Westminster and the SNP can't play the "kick the Toffs" card anymore. Conversely, if they cause chaos, and make a mess of things, that will be capitalised on by the opposition and SNP will be shown up to have failed the country, making their credibility collapse. Can't wait! They have messed-up. The old rule "be careful what you ask for" applies. Nyet, Tovarich. They go down there and it works, they take the credit, they show what they got from Westminster - what happens if at the next election the SNP are back to 6 seats? Pressure on Westminster to keep on delivering for the Breeze Blocks, innit? As stated above, creating chaos is not in their interests. If anything this option is in their worst possible interests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieh Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 (edited) The end-game will be fine. SNP are snookered. If they go down there and show they are a success and adding "clout" for Scotland, this dilutes the cause for Independence, as Scots will see they get a better deal via Westminster and the SNP can't play the "kick the Toffs" card anymore. Conversely, if they cause chaos, and make a mess of things, that will be capitalised on by the opposition and SNP will be shown up to have failed the country, making their credibility collapse. Can't wait! They have messed-up. The old rule "be careful what you ask for" applies. I think they know their objective better than your good self, desperation oozing from all the SNP haters pours. Edited May 6, 2015 by aussieh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 So they could take the credit for putting pressure on Labour to be, um, Labour? It also gives them credibility with the electorate up here. Going to Westminster and deliberately screwing things up and then crying foul will not cut any ice with the voters in Scotland. Equally, if they are sidelined by the establishment, then this is what will fuel the "grievance" and from a propaganda point of view could be very useful. Tory campaigning in middle england is already demonising Scots - yes Scots, not just the SNP, but Scots per se. We all know that the SNP isn't Scotland and vice versa, but that subtlety is being lost down South. Calm yourself! Cause chaos? And then that would show them up to be irresponsible and immature. That really would go down well with the electorate here, wouldn't it? Of course they can get a lot of credit for influencing Westminster in a positive way. But thats their nemesis. The more Westminster succeeds for Scotland, the less liklihood for disaffection up here, ergo the less appetite for Independence. Shot in foot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Trapper John Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 I think they know their objective better than you, desperation oozing frim all the SNP haters pours. We all know their objective, Aus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 I think they know their objective better than you, desperation oozing frim all the SNP haters pours. No desperation here. I am more than happy for a big crowd of SNP to head to Westminster. It means simply their chances of getting full Independence reduces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBJambo Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 I think they know their objective better than your good self, desperation oozing from all the SNP haters pours. Yes their objective is independence whatever the cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Of course they can get a lot of credit for influencing Westminster in a positive way. But thats their nemesis. The more Westminster succeeds for Scotland, the less liklihood for disaffection up here, ergo the less appetite for Independence. Shot in foot. Again, disagree. Westminster will then be seen to only work if there is SNP pressure. Any reduction of that and, as I said, if Westminster goes back to what it was then if anything it strengthens the SNP position. Both scenarios would be beneficial to them at Holyrood too. Win win I think. IMO, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBJambo Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 No desperation here. I am more than happy for a big crowd of SNP to head to Westminster. It means simply their chances of getting full Independence reduces. Yep and with ffa we can watch them making a right arse of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Again, disagree. Westminster will then be seen to only work if there is SNP pressure. Any reduction of that and, as I said, if Westminster goes back to what it was then if anything it strengthens the SNP position. Both scenarios would be beneficial to them at Holyrood too. Win win I think. IMO, of course. Nope. The SNP will have no choice but to advertise how successful they have been, and that Scotland now has "clout" in Westminster. So when they next campaign for Independence, they will be campaigning against the one establishment they claim to be now successful for Scotland! Their recent campaign was significantly based on persuading voters they were being "ruled by Toffs". That tactic worked for a certain section of the electorate. That will no longer be the case, so they will lose those voters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leipzig 51 Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Yep and with ffa we can watch them making a right arse of it Who's offering FFA like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Trapper John Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Yep and with ffa we can watch them making a right arse of it Wonder if Dave's first act as PM will be to offer Nic FFA as a big thank you present? Will she say no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieh Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 We all know their objective, Aus.You got a good malt in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBJambo Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Who's offering FFA like?Tories Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SE16 3LN Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 I predict a Tory led coalition unleashing the most savage attacks on working class people since the days before the birth Labour Party. The only thing that will prevent that is a mass mobilisation of the Labour vote. It's up to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 The whip system has become too powerful in recent times for me, given the influence they have on committee appearances and also over the points raised in debates on motions. They can basically make or break your political career really. Now there's an interesting point. The party whip can make or break your career? your career? Is that serving your constituents or carving yourself a notch a wee bit further up the greasy pole? I suppose getting one's snout into the trough at Westminster must be quite intoxicating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Nope. The SNP will have no choice but to advertise how successful they have been, and that Scotland now has "clout" in Westminster. So when they next campaign for Independence, they will be campaigning against the one establishment they claim to be now successful for Scotland! Their recent campaign was significantly based on persuading voters they were being "ruled by Toffs". That tactic worked for a certain section of the electorate. That will no longer be the case, so they will lose those voters. But this relies on the Snp always being there to give that clout. Wait until middle England gets rid of Labour and you have a Tory majority. I reckon that puts the Snp in a very, very strong position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Trapper John Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 You got a good malt in. Naw. Need harder stuff. 1 litre bottle of Whyte & Mackay with a crate of Stella and some John Smith on the side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Yes their objective is independence whatever the cost. Yes But I do believe the SNP when they say they will make a positive contribution at Westminster. Being positive and constructive is far more beneficial in showing they are a serious party of government and act in people's interests. People online underestimate the opposition to independence albeit 45% Yes vote was impressive. The SNP need and want to convince more people of their fitness to govern. Its a major challenge. For a start they will get a whole new scrutiny on their policies, record and plans as the Scottish Government especially as English media compare and contrast English policy and outcomes including what SNP backed government does, if that happens. Playing games, negativity and posturing would come up to massive scrutiny and risks hardening opposition to independence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Trapper John Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 I predict a Tory led coalition unleashing the most savage attacks on working class people since the days before the birth Labour Party. The only thing that will prevent that is a mass mobilisation of the Labour vote. It's up to you. Well said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rand Paul's Ray Bans Posted May 6, 2015 Author Share Posted May 6, 2015 I predict a Tory led coalition unleashing the most savage attacks on working class people since the days before the birth Labour Party. The only thing that will prevent that is a mass mobilisation of the Labour vote. It's up to you. We need more of level-headed #analysis like this. Thanks for posting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 The SNP's aim is not "independence at any cost" They do actually aim to be in power after independence and if they cause reckless damage in winning another indyref then nobody will vote for them! The conspiracy theory that they are going to wreck the UK so they Scotland gets kicked out is totally bonkers, even for some of the die-hard Unionists on this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Trapper John Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Now there's an interesting point. The party whip can make or break your career? your career? Is that serving your constituents or carving yourself a notch a wee bit further up the greasy pole? I suppose getting one's snout into the trough at Westminster must be quite intoxicating. Nicola's doing better in the Holyrood trough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 I predict a Tory led coalition unleashing the most savage attacks on working class people since the days before the birth Labour Party. The only thing that will prevent that is a mass mobilisation of the Labour vote. It's up to you. that would certainly make the case for independence stronger believe it is what the UK Conservatives would do. Figures don't look like them getting majority but who knows what will happen in next days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Nope. The SNP will have no choice but to advertise how successful they have been, and that Scotland now has "clout" in Westminster. So when they next campaign for Independence, they will be campaigning against the one establishment they claim to be now successful for Scotland! Their recent campaign was significantly based on persuading voters they were being "ruled by Toffs". That tactic worked for a certain section of the electorate. That will no longer be the case, so they will lose those voters. Why wouldn't the SNP advertise if they've been successful at ringing change through Westminster. It would show that the SNP isn't the crackpot collection of woad wearing heretics out to destroy the known universe and eat your children. A grown up political party offering another way or an alternative to the duopoly would strengthen their hand in Scotland IMO. I personally hope they go down there and create mayhem, but the mayhem that reigns in the excess of the Tories and gives the clueless and directionless Labour party a boot right up the arse. The kind of mayhem that highlights and illustrates just how much Westminster isn't working for the man on the street. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hasselhoff Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 I predict a Tory led coalition unleashing the most savage attacks on working class people since the days before the birth Labour Party. The only thing that will prevent that is a mass mobilisation of the Labour vote. It's up to you. Why are they needing to make cuts in the first place? Due to the mess Labour made last time. Why restart the cycle again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieh Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 No desperation here. I am more than happy for a big crowd of SNP to head to Westminster. It means simply their chances of getting full Independence reduces.Not if theres no room at the Inn.Whit you gonnae do if your local stopped serving you G&T?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 You got a good malt in. Told ya. Its Ardbeg, No house should be without one. A slab of Pironi and GnT with pink grapefruit juice as well. And some Tyrells crisps (other brands are available). I'll be unbearable when Annie romps to victory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Not if theres no room at the Inn. Whit you gonnae do if your local stopped serving you G&T?. I'v egot the bottles in. There Gin is in the fridge cooling as we speak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Lyon Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 The SNP don't want FFA they want FFR well that's this week. I hope they get sweet FA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieh Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 I'v egot the bottles in. There Gin is in the fridge cooling as we speak.Enjoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieh Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 The SNP don't want FFA they want FFR well that's this week. I hope they get sweet FA!ma sides jist burst. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SE16 3LN Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 We need more of level-headed #analysis like this. Thanks for posting. Much better to run about slinging insults at people rather than considering what ?12billion cuts in welfare spending would actually mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 I actually hope the mods let this thread run through tomorrow night as the results start to come in. I'm planning on a late night with a couple of bottles of Rioja, some snacks and a cracking night of drama as it all unfolds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieh Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Naw. Need harder stuff. 1 litre bottle of Whyte & Mackay with a crate of Stella and some John Smith on the side. If this goes tits up, ill be on the Hooch.But confident enough to spark the Cider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hasselhoff Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Much better to run about slinging insults at people rather than considering what ?12billion cuts in welfare spending would actually mean. Getting people into jobs stops welfare being as high. That is their plan along with more of the same but to a lesser extent as the last 5 years. How many times over is the mansion tax and 50% tax being spent currently in the Labour/SNP manifesto? They will stifle business causing more people to be out of work and increasing the welfare bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rand Paul's Ray Bans Posted May 6, 2015 Author Share Posted May 6, 2015 Much better to run about slinging insults at people rather than considering what ?12billion cuts in welfare spending would actually mean. I do apologise if I have contempt for deranged hyperbole. You're like Osborne going on about how a Labour win would plunge Britain into a 'French-style economic crisis' today. Pure hyperbole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SE16 3LN Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Getting people into jobs stops welfare being as high. That is their plan along with more of the same but to a lesser extent as the last 5 years. How many times over is the mansion tax and 50% tax being spent currently in the Labour/SNP manifesto? They will stifle business causing more people to be out of work and increasing the welfare bill. 40% of benefit claimants are in work. Most benefit payments are in fact subsidies to landlords and employers who refuse to pay the living wage. We are not talking about small businesses struggling to survive, but companies like Tesco, Celtic FC and Starbucks. Wake up and smell the coffee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Trapper John Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 (edited) Remember when Scotland used to send its finest exports down to London? By Friday they'll be sending the opposite. Edited May 6, 2015 by Trapper John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaymarketJambo Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 The SNP don't want FFA they want FFR well that's this week. I hope they get sweet FA! SNP GAIN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leginten Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 (edited) Remember when Scotland used to send its finest exports down to London? By Friday they'll be sending the opposite. Ah. Mike Watson, Jim Devine, Ann Moffat, Eric Joyce, Mick Martin... When will we see their like again? How will Westminster cope? How will those appointed to monitor MPs' expenses fill their time? Edited May 6, 2015 by leginten Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Trapper John Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Ah. Mike Watson, Jim Devine, Ann Moffat, Eric Joyce, Mick Martin... When will we see their like again? How will Westminster cope? How will those appointed to monitor MPs' expenses fill their time? ...to be replaced by Nutter Black, Bigot O' Hare, Tax Avoidance Expert/Twitter Troll Hay and Margaret 'ask me anything but just don't ask me about anything of substance' Farrier. What an improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonlegions Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Getting people into jobs stops welfare being as high. That is their plan along with more of the same but to a lesser extent as the last 5 years. How many times over is the mansion tax and 50% tax being spent currently in the Labour/SNP manifesto? They will stifle business causing more people to be out of work and increasing the welfare bill. Ian Duncan Smith has shown to me just what the agenda of the tory welfare cuts are all about and those recent attacks on the benefits awarded to the disabled and sick were totally barbaric, people struggling have taken their own lives because of those barbaric cuts to their welfare. Getting people into work is all fine and dandy but what is the percentage of those very jobs that actually pay poverty wages or below inflation wages.That recently leaked tory welfare cuts dossier that contained in it the drawn up plans to cut working tax credits and child benefit is were its at. The fact that those cuts to working tax credits that a lot of people in work i may add rely on were being considered for cuts in the first place signifies the true tory perception of the ordinary person, they dont give a feck about the sick, old disabled, the millions in poorly paid jobs , they have made that abundantly clear in 5 years they have been in power. I ask myself this question, why did that tory Ruth Davidson not come clean on any future tory welfare cuts or those before, why? because she and her party knows that there is more misery to come for the less well off if those heart less b******* get in again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maple Leaf Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 I actually hope the mods let this thread run through tomorrow night as the results start to come in. I'm planning on a late night with a couple of bottles of Rioja, some snacks and a cracking night of drama as it all unfolds There is no intent to do anything other than let the thread run. And the mods won't get involved if posters stay within the rules, as I requested yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFT94 Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 As someone who is a first time voter in this general election, up until September of last year I would have voted for Labour because I believed that they had the best interests of the working people of this country at heart. However, their smear tactics against the SNP would rival those in the Daily Mail which seem to portray anyone who votes for the SNP as someone who wants to undermine the very nature of democracy. What faith can I, as a first time, left-minded voter have in a Labour party who just last year stood on the same soapbox as the Tories and promised the world if we stayed, yet have delivered nothing? The SNP seem to favour moderate spending increases as a means of kickstarting the economy and investing in the future; reducing the deficit without it being at the expense of the most vulnerable, while also not believing that their country should be used as a nuclear base capable of wiping out civilisation. Surely these views only seem extreme if you are, in fact a right-wing lunatic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.