The 2015 General Election Megathread

[Boris]

Don't blame them the SNP want to destroy the UK how can they help govern something they want to destroy

 

Actually, they don't want to govern, if you had been listening to anything that has been said.  The will support a Labour govt, short of coalition, so no cabinet seats for the SNP, therefore not governing.

 

And, as has been said on numerous occasions, independence isn't on the agenda at this election.

 

The only party actively breaking up the UK at this point in time is the Tory party, with their divide and conquer tactics in this election, their woeful economic programme and their systematic erosion of public services.

 

Ironically, the SNP could be the best thing to happen to the UK in recent years!

[aussieh]

Don't blame them ,the SNP want to destroy the UK . How can they help govern something they want to destroy

Thats not stopped the other three getting elected for forever.

[deesidejambo]

Actually, they don't want to govern, if you had been listening to anything that has been said.  The will support a Labour govt, short of coalition, so no cabinet seats for the SNP, therefore not governing.

 

And, as has been said on numerous occasions, independence isn't on the agenda at this election.

 

The only party actively breaking up the UK at this point in time is the Tory party, with their divide and conquer tactics in this election, their woeful economic programme and their systematic erosion of public services.

 

Ironically, the SNP could be the best thing to happen to the UK in recent years!

I'd put it differently -

 

They want Independence.

 

And in order to gain Independence, they need to show Westminster isn't working.

 

Ergo -why would they want to make a success of the one establishment they need to show is failing?

[GBJambo]

I'd put it differently -

 

They want Independence.

 

And in order to gain Independence, they need to show Westminster isn't working.

 

Ergo -why would they want to make a success of the one establishment they need to show is failing?

Exactly. They will go down there to cause chaos. How is this is good for anyone?

[deesidejambo]

Exactly. They will go down there to cause chaos. How is this is good for anyone?

The end-game will be fine.  SNP are snookered. 

 

If they go down there and show they are a success and adding "clout" for Scotland, this dilutes the cause for Independence, as Scots will see they get a better deal via Westminster and the SNP can't play the "kick the Toffs" card anymore.

 

Conversely, if they cause chaos, and make a mess of things, that will be capitalised on by the opposition and SNP will be shown up to have failed the country, making their credibility collapse.

 

Can't wait!  They have messed-up.    The old rule "be careful what you ask for" applies.

[Boris]

I'd put it differently -

 

They want Independence.

 

And in order to gain Independence, they need to show Westminster isn't working.

 

Ergo -why would they want to make a success of the one establishment they need to show is failing?

 

So they could take the credit for putting pressure on Labour to be, um, Labour?  It also gives them credibility with the electorate up here.  Going to Westminster and deliberately screwing things up and then crying foul will not cut any ice with the voters in Scotland.  Equally, if they are sidelined by the establishment, then this is what will fuel the "grievance" and from a propaganda point of view could be very useful.  Tory campaigning in middle england is already demonising Scots - yes Scots, not just the SNP, but Scots per se.  We all know that the SNP isn't Scotland and vice versa, but that subtlety is being lost down South.

 

Exactly. They will go down there to cause chaos. How is this is good for anyone?

 

Calm yourself!  Cause chaos?  And then that would show them up to be irresponsible and immature.  That really would go down well with the electorate here, wouldn't it?

[Boris]

The end-game will be fine.  SNP are snookered. 

 

If they go down there and show they are a success and adding "clout" for Scotland, this dilutes the cause for Independence, as Scots will see they get a better deal via Westminster and the SNP can't play the "kick the Toffs" card anymore.

 

Conversely, if they cause chaos, and make a mess of things, that will be capitalised on by the opposition and SNP will be shown up to have failed the country, making their credibility collapse.

 

Can't wait!  They have messed-up.    The old rule "be careful what you ask for" applies.

 

Nyet, Tovarich.

 

They go down there and it works, they take the credit, they show what they got from Westminster - what happens if at the next election the SNP are back to 6 seats?  Pressure on Westminster to keep on delivering for the Breeze Blocks, innit?

 

As stated above, creating chaos is not in their interests.  If anything this option is in their worst possible interests.

[aussieh]

The end-game will be fine. SNP are snookered.

 

If they go down there and show they are a success and adding "clout" for Scotland, this dilutes the cause for Independence, as Scots will see they get a better deal via Westminster and the SNP can't play the "kick the Toffs" card anymore.

 

Conversely, if they cause chaos, and make a mess of things, that will be capitalised on by the opposition and SNP will be shown up to have failed the country, making their credibility collapse.

 

Can't wait! They have messed-up. The old rule "be careful what you ask for" applies.

I think they know their objective better than your good self, desperation oozing from all the SNP haters pours. Edited May 6, 2015 by aussieh

[deesidejambo]

So they could take the credit for putting pressure on Labour to be, um, Labour?  It also gives them credibility with the electorate up here.  Going to Westminster and deliberately screwing things up and then crying foul will not cut any ice with the voters in Scotland.  Equally, if they are sidelined by the establishment, then this is what will fuel the "grievance" and from a propaganda point of view could be very useful.  Tory campaigning in middle england is already demonising Scots - yes Scots, not just the SNP, but Scots per se.  We all know that the SNP isn't Scotland and vice versa, but that subtlety is being lost down South.

 

 

Calm yourself!  Cause chaos?  And then that would show them up to be irresponsible and immature.  That really would go down well with the electorate here, wouldn't it?

Of course they can get a lot of credit for influencing Westminster in a positive way.  But thats their nemesis.

 

The more Westminster succeeds for Scotland, the less liklihood for disaffection up here, ergo the less appetite for Independence.   Shot in foot.

[Guest Trapper John]

I think they know their objective better than you, desperation oozing frim all the SNP haters pours.

We all know their objective, Aus.

[deesidejambo]

I think they know their objective better than you, desperation oozing frim all the SNP haters pours.

No desperation here.  I am more than happy for a big crowd of SNP to head to Westminster.    It means simply their chances of getting full Independence reduces.

[GBJambo]

I think they know their objective better than your good self, desperation oozing from all the SNP haters pours.

Yes their objective is independence whatever the cost.

[Boris]

Of course they can get a lot of credit for influencing Westminster in a positive way.  But thats their nemesis.

 

The more Westminster succeeds for Scotland, the less liklihood for disaffection up here, ergo the less appetite for Independence.   Shot in foot.

 

Again, disagree.  Westminster will then be seen to only work if there is SNP pressure.

 

Any reduction of that and, as I said, if Westminster goes back to what it was then if anything it strengthens the SNP position.  Both scenarios would be beneficial to them at Holyrood too.  Win win I think.

 

IMO, of course.

[GBJambo]

No desperation here. I am more than happy for a big crowd of SNP to head to Westminster. It means simply their chances of getting full Independence reduces.

Yep and with ffa we can watch them making a right arse of it

[deesidejambo]

Again, disagree.  Westminster will then be seen to only work if there is SNP pressure.

 

Any reduction of that and, as I said, if Westminster goes back to what it was then if anything it strengthens the SNP position.  Both scenarios would be beneficial to them at Holyrood too.  Win win I think.

 

IMO, of course.

Nope.

 

The SNP will have no choice but to advertise how successful they have been, and that Scotland now has "clout" in Westminster.

 

So when they next campaign for Independence, they will be campaigning against the one establishment they claim to be now successful for Scotland!    Their recent campaign was significantly based on persuading voters they were being "ruled by Toffs".   That tactic worked for a certain section of the electorate.    That will no longer be the case, so they will lose those voters.

[Leipzig 51]

Yep and with ffa we can watch them making a right arse of it

Who's offering FFA like?

[Guest Trapper John]

Yep and with ffa we can watch them making a right arse of it

Wonder if Dave's first act as PM will be to offer Nic FFA as a big thank you present?

 

Will she say no?

[aussieh]

We all know their objective, Aus.

You got a good malt in.

[GBJambo]

Who's offering FFA like?

Tories

[SE16 3LN]

I predict a Tory led coalition unleashing the most savage attacks on working class people since the days before the birth Labour Party. The only thing that will prevent that is a mass mobilisation of the Labour vote. It's up to you.

[The Mighty Thor]

The whip system has become too powerful in recent times for me, given the influence they have on committee appearances and also over the points raised in debates on motions. They can basically make or break your political career really.

 

Now there's an interesting point. The party whip can make or break your career? your career? Is that serving your constituents or carving yourself a notch a wee bit further up the greasy pole? 

 

I suppose getting one's snout into the trough at Westminster must be quite intoxicating.

[Boris]

Nope.

 

The SNP will have no choice but to advertise how successful they have been, and that Scotland now has "clout" in Westminster.

 

So when they next campaign for Independence, they will be campaigning against the one establishment they claim to be now successful for Scotland! Their recent campaign was significantly based on persuading voters they were being "ruled by Toffs". That tactic worked for a certain section of the electorate. That will no longer be the case, so they will lose those voters.

But this relies on the Snp always being there to give that clout. Wait until middle England gets rid of Labour and you have a Tory majority. I reckon that puts the Snp in a very, very strong position.

[Guest Trapper John]

You got a good malt in.

Naw. Need harder stuff. 1 litre bottle of Whyte & Mackay with a crate of Stella and some John Smith on the side.

[Mikey1874]

Yes their objective is independence whatever the cost.

Yes

 

But I do believe the SNP when they say they will make a positive contribution at Westminster.

 

Being positive and constructive is far more beneficial in showing they are a serious party of government and act in people's interests.

 

People online underestimate the opposition to independence albeit 45% Yes vote was impressive. The SNP need and want to convince more people of their fitness to govern.

 

Its a major challenge. For a start they will get a whole new scrutiny on their policies, record and plans as the Scottish Government especially as English media compare and contrast English policy and outcomes including what SNP backed government does, if that happens.

 

Playing games, negativity and posturing would come up to massive scrutiny and risks hardening opposition to independence.

[Guest Trapper John]

I predict a Tory led coalition unleashing the most savage attacks on working class people since the days before the birth Labour Party. The only thing that will prevent that is a mass mobilisation of the Labour vote. It's up to you.

Well said.

[Rand Paul's Ray Bans]

I predict a Tory led coalition unleashing the most savage attacks on working class people since the days before the birth Labour Party. The only thing that will prevent that is a mass mobilisation of the Labour vote. It's up to you.

 

We need more of level-headed #analysis like this. Thanks for posting. 

[Cade]

The SNP's aim is not "independence at any cost"

 

They do actually aim to be in power after independence and if they cause reckless damage in winning another indyref then nobody will vote for them!

 

The conspiracy theory that they are going to wreck the UK so they Scotland gets kicked out is totally bonkers, even for some of the die-hard Unionists on this thread.

[Guest Trapper John]

Now there's an interesting point. The party whip can make or break your career? your career? Is that serving your constituents or carving yourself a notch a wee bit further up the greasy pole? 

 

I suppose getting one's snout into the trough at Westminster must be quite intoxicating.

Nicola's doing better in the Holyrood trough.

[Mikey1874]

I predict a Tory led coalition unleashing the most savage attacks on working class people since the days before the birth Labour Party. The only thing that will prevent that is a mass mobilisation of the Labour vote. It's up to you.

that would certainly make the case for independence stronger

 

believe it is what the UK Conservatives would do. Figures don't look like them getting majority but who knows what will happen in next days

[The Mighty Thor]

Nope.

 

The SNP will have no choice but to advertise how successful they have been, and that Scotland now has "clout" in Westminster.

 

So when they next campaign for Independence, they will be campaigning against the one establishment they claim to be now successful for Scotland!    Their recent campaign was significantly based on persuading voters they were being "ruled by Toffs".   That tactic worked for a certain section of the electorate.    That will no longer be the case, so they will lose those voters.

 

Why wouldn't the SNP advertise if they've been successful at ringing change through Westminster. It would show that the SNP isn't the crackpot collection of woad wearing heretics out to destroy the known universe and eat your children.

 

A grown up political party offering another way or an alternative to the duopoly would strengthen their hand in Scotland IMO.

 

I personally hope they go down there and create mayhem, but the mayhem that reigns in the excess of the Tories and gives the clueless and directionless Labour party a boot right up the arse. The kind of mayhem that highlights and illustrates just how much Westminster isn't working for the man on the street.

[Hasselhoff]

I predict a Tory led coalition unleashing the most savage attacks on working class people since the days before the birth Labour Party. The only thing that will prevent that is a mass mobilisation of the Labour vote. It's up to you.

Why are they needing to make cuts in the first place? Due to the mess Labour made last time. Why restart the cycle again?

[aussieh]

No desperation here. I am more than happy for a big crowd of SNP to head to Westminster. It means simply their chances of getting full Independence reduces.

Not if theres no room at the Inn.

Whit you gonnae do if your local stopped serving you G&T?.

[deesidejambo]

You got a good malt in.

Told ya.  Its Ardbeg,   No house should be without one.    A slab of Pironi and GnT with pink grapefruit juice as well.  And some Tyrells crisps (other brands are available).   I'll be unbearable when Annie romps to victory.

[deesidejambo]

Not if theres no room at the Inn.

Whit you gonnae do if your local stopped serving you G&T?.

I'v egot the bottles in.  There Gin is in the fridge cooling as we speak.    

[Stuart Lyon]

The SNP don't want FFA they want FFR well that's this week. I hope they get sweet FA!

[aussieh]

I'v egot the bottles in. There Gin is in the fridge cooling as we speak.

Enjoy

[aussieh]

The SNP don't want FFA they want FFR well that's this week. I hope they get sweet FA!

ma sides jist burst.

[SE16 3LN]

We need more of level-headed #analysis like this. Thanks for posting. 

Much better to run about slinging insults at people rather than considering what ?12billion cuts in welfare spending would actually mean. 

[The Mighty Thor]

I actually hope the mods let this thread run through tomorrow night as the results start to come in. 

 

I'm planning on a late night with a couple of bottles of Rioja, some snacks and a cracking night of drama as it all unfolds

[aussieh]

Naw. Need harder stuff. 1 litre bottle of Whyte & Mackay with a crate of Stella and some John Smith on the side.

If this goes tits up, ill be on the Hooch.

But confident enough to spark the Cider.

[Hasselhoff]

Much better to run about slinging insults at people rather than considering what ?12billion cuts in welfare spending would actually mean.

Getting people into jobs stops welfare being as high. That is their plan along with more of the same but to a lesser extent as the last 5 years.

 

How many times over is the mansion tax and 50% tax being spent currently in the Labour/SNP manifesto? They will stifle business causing more people to be out of work and increasing the welfare bill.

[Rand Paul's Ray Bans]

Much better to run about slinging insults at people rather than considering what ?12billion cuts in welfare spending would actually mean. 

 

I do apologise if I have contempt for deranged hyperbole. 

 

You're like Osborne going on about how a Labour win would plunge Britain into a 'French-style economic crisis' today. Pure hyperbole. 

[SE16 3LN]

Getting people into jobs stops welfare being as high. That is their plan along with more of the same but to a lesser extent as the last 5 years.

 

How many times over is the mansion tax and 50% tax being spent currently in the Labour/SNP manifesto? They will stifle business causing more people to be out of work and increasing the welfare bill.

40% of benefit claimants are in work. Most benefit payments are in fact subsidies to landlords and employers who refuse to pay the living wage. We are not talking about small businesses struggling to survive, but companies like Tesco, Celtic FC and Starbucks. Wake up and smell the coffee.

[Guest Trapper John]

Remember when Scotland used to send its finest exports down to London?

 

By Friday they'll be sending the opposite.

Edited May 6, 2015 by Trapper John

[HaymarketJambo]

The SNP don't want FFA they want FFR well that's this week. I hope they get sweet FA!

 

SNP GAIN.

[leginten]

Remember when Scotland used to send its finest exports down to London?

 

By Friday they'll be sending the opposite.

Ah. Mike Watson, Jim Devine, Ann Moffat, Eric Joyce, Mick Martin...

 

When will we see their like again? How will Westminster cope? How will those appointed to monitor MPs' expenses fill their time?

Edited May 6, 2015 by leginten

[Guest Trapper John]

Ah. Mike Watson, Jim Devine, Ann Moffat, Eric Joyce, Mick Martin...

 

When will we see their like again? How will Westminster cope? How will those appointed to monitor MPs' expenses fill their time?

 

 

...to be replaced by Nutter Black, Bigot O' Hare, Tax Avoidance Expert/Twitter Troll Hay and Margaret 'ask me anything but just don't ask me about anything of substance' Farrier.

 

What an improvement.

[maroonlegions]

Getting people into jobs stops welfare being as high. That is their plan along with more of the same but to a lesser extent as the last 5 years.

 

How many times over is the mansion tax and 50% tax being spent currently in the Labour/SNP manifesto? They will stifle business causing more people to be out of work and increasing the welfare bill.

 

 

Ian Duncan Smith has shown to me just what the agenda of the tory  welfare cuts are all about and  those recent attacks on the benefits awarded to the  disabled and sick  were totally barbaric, people struggling have taken their own lives because of those barbaric cuts  to their welfare.

 

Getting people into work is all fine and dandy but what is the percentage of those very jobs that  actually  pay poverty wages or below inflation wages.That recently leaked tory welfare cuts dossier that contained in it the  drawn up plans to cut working tax credits and child benefit is were its at. The fact that those cuts to working tax credits that a lot of people in work i may add rely on were being considered for cuts in the first place signifies  the true tory  perception of the ordinary person, they dont give a feck about the  sick, old disabled, the millions in  poorly paid jobs , they have made that abundantly clear in 5 years they have been in power.

 

I ask myself this question, why did that  tory Ruth Davidson not come clean on any future tory welfare cuts or those before, why? because she and her party knows  that there is  more misery to come for the less well off if those heart less b******* get in again.

[Maple Leaf]

I actually hope the mods let this thread run through tomorrow night as the results start to come in. 

 

I'm planning on a late night with a couple of bottles of Rioja, some snacks and a cracking night of drama as it all unfolds

 

There is no intent to do anything other than let the thread run. 

 

And the mods won't get involved if posters stay within the rules, as I requested yesterday.

[BFT94]

As someone who is a first time voter in this general election, up until September of last year I would have voted for Labour because I believed that they had the best interests of the working people of this country at heart. However, their smear tactics against the SNP would rival those in the Daily Mail which seem to portray anyone who votes for the SNP as someone who wants to undermine the very nature of democracy. What faith can I, as a first time, left-minded voter have in a Labour party who just last year stood on the same soapbox as the Tories and promised the world if we stayed, yet have delivered nothing?

 

The SNP seem to favour moderate spending increases as a means of kickstarting the economy and investing in the future; reducing the deficit without it being at the expense of the most vulnerable, while also not believing that their country should be used as a nuclear base capable of wiping out civilisation. Surely these views only seem extreme if you are, in fact a right-wing lunatic?