Scottish independence and devolution superthread

[i wish jj was my dad]

1 minute ago, Dazo said:

Don’t think anyone can argue with that. 

Unfortunately, there are plenty that do. 

[Roxy Hearts]

1 hour ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

So a decent society makes provision for those who can't?  The country I want to live in will have compassion for those who aren't able to provide for themselves and their families.  

Absolutely, but you've seen some of the greeting faced(as per usual) unionists moaning about paying a wee bit more tax! The class system in the UK still exists and is archaic.

 

We need a more modern approach for our all our citizens. Some of the wealthy, especially in politics, are the most greedy, selfish, ignorant people in the UK. We should ensure those who are self made and entrepreneurs are not penalised but we need a fairer distribution of our taxes.

[TallPaul]

11 hours ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

So a decent society makes provision for those who can't?  The country I want to live in will have compassion for those who aren't able to provide for themselves and their families.  

How many truly can't? Not as many as we find ourselves providing for. There's those that can't and those that choose not to.

[i wish jj was my dad]

29 minutes ago, TallPaul said:

How many truly can't? Not as many as we find ourselves providing for. There's those that can't and those that choose not to.

I don't know anybody who is out of work as a lifestyle choice. I do know quite a few working people who have to claim benefits because their earnings aren't enough to feed their family though. Presumably, you know lots of people who choose not to provide for their families? 

[TallPaul]

29 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

I don't know anybody who is out of work as a lifestyle choice. I do know quite a few working people who have to claim benefits because their earnings aren't enough to feed their family though. Presumably, you know lots of people who choose not to provide for their families? 

Do both parents work full-time? Do they smoke? Drink? Have the latest phones? Know how to cook?

[i wish jj was my dad]

Just now, TallPaul said:

Do both parents work full-time? Do they smoke? Drink? Have the latest phones? Know how to cook?

Work full time, don't smoke, practically don't drink. Decent cooks in my experience. I don't know what their phones are like. One of them is a single parent. 

[Unknown user]

1 hour ago, TallPaul said:

How many truly can't? Not as many as we find ourselves providing for. There's those that can't and those that choose not to.

Yes, and?

[TallPaul]

12 minutes ago, ǝǝɥʇᴉɯS said:

Yes, and?

And we should feel sympathetic towards them should we?

[Unknown user]

Just now, TallPaul said:

And we should feel sympathetic towards them should we?

 

Don't believe anyone's said that, why are you focussed on them when there's so much genuine need?

[i wish jj was my dad]

1 minute ago, TallPaul said:

And we should feel sympathetic towards them should we?

Sympathetic to who? People who can't provide for their families? 

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

Sympathetic to who? People who can't provide for their families? 

 

He brings up a good point in his bitterness though.

 

When working a full time job doesn't lift you out of poverty, what's your motivation for being away from the family?

 

I think these people imagine poverty means limited options, when it really means mounting debt, juggling bills and final demands, going without for a couple of days, living in the cold during winter.

 

If you're getting deeper in debt despite working, then why are you working?

 

To support a society that's abandoned you and the type of tosser that sneers at your life?

 

Society's broken - blame the poor!

[i wish jj was my dad]

4 minutes ago, ǝǝɥʇᴉɯS said:

 

He brings up a good point in his bitterness though.

 

When working a full time job doesn't lift you out of poverty, what's your motivation for being away from the family?

 

I think these people imagine poverty means limited options, when it really means mounting debt, juggling bills and final demands, going without for a couple of days, living in the cold during winter.

 

If you're getting deeper in debt despite working, then why are you working?

 

To support a society that's abandoned you and the type of tosser that sneers at your life?

 

Society's broken - blame the poor!

He's pushing the idea that it's only lazy, feckless losers who can't make ends meet and they are living  the high life at his expense.  Understandable if the limit of your knowledge is what you read in the Daily Mail but the reality is that relatively few people out of work are idle out of choice.  Demonising people for having limited means when the government of the day choosing to siphon off the national wealth for the benefit of a select few takes some doing

[Gundermann]

19 minutes ago, ǝǝɥʇᴉɯS said:

 

He brings up a good point in his bitterness though.

 

When working a full time job doesn't lift you out of poverty, what's your motivation for being away from the family?

 

I think these people imagine poverty means limited options, when it really means mounting debt, juggling bills and final demands, going without for a couple of days, living in the cold during winter.

 

If you're getting deeper in debt despite working, then why are you working?

 

To support a society that's abandoned you and the type of tosser that sneers at your life?

 

Society's broken - blame the poor!

 

Good post.

 

It's oft-ignored that most recipients of 'benefits' are actually in work already. A sad indictment of capitalism and the Union. And of those who are unemployed, many have severe mental or physical impairements as a result of childhood traumas, poverty, abuse or disability.

 

As to the last bit, not quite. We - gammons etc - usually blame foreigners first while saying 'we must look after our own' but then call 'their own' workshy scroungers who live off lefty state handouts.

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, Gundermann said:

 

Good post.

 

It's oft-ignored that most recipients of 'benefits' are actually in work already. A sad indictment of capitalism and the Union. And of those who are unemployed, many have severe mental or physical impairements as a result of childhood traumas, poverty, abuse or disability.

 

As to the last bit, not quite. We - gammons etc - usually blame foreigners first while saying 'we must look after our own' but then call 'their own' workshy scroungers who live off lefty state handouts.

 

And to be super duper clear, paying benefits to the working poor isn't subsidising the poor - it's subsidising the employer so they can keep making profit from paying a poverty wage.

[i wish jj was my dad]

1 minute ago, Gundermann said:

 

Good post.

 

It's oft-ignored that most recipients of 'benefits' are actually in work already. A sad indictment of capitalism and the Union. And of those who are unemployed, many have severe mental or physical impairements as a result of childhood traumas, poverty, abuse or disability.

 

As to the last bit, not quite. We - gammons etc - usually blame foreigners first while saying 'we must look after our own' but then call 'their own' workshy scroungers who live off lefty state handouts.

The few people who could be labelled 'workshy' are often from communities that were left behind by decisions taken in the 80s by a government who thought closing down industries and selling off national assets to their pals was a good idea. We're still dealing with the legacy of those decisions today and not making a very good job of it. 

[i wish jj was my dad]

2 minutes ago, ǝǝɥʇᴉɯS said:

 

And to be super duper clear, paying benefits to the working poor isn't subsidising the poor - it's subsidising the employer so they can keep making profit from paying a poverty wage.

Exactly. Big companies making enormous profits can pay peanuts to their staff and the taxpayer has to top it up to help them keep their head above water. 

[Gundermann]

Just now, i wish jj was my dad said:

The few people who could be labelled 'workshy' are often from communities that were left behind by decisions taken in the 80s by a government who thought closing down industries and selling off national assets to their pals was a good idea. We're still dealing with the legacy of those decisions today and not making a very good job of it. 

 

 

Always puzzled me that the Tories claim to be patriotic Brits who want to keep immigrants out but are content to sell British state-assets, once owned by us, to any dodgy billionaire or foreign entity. Half our energy and telecommunications (!!) seems to be owned by the Chinese govt now.

[Gundermann]

5 minutes ago, ǝǝɥʇᴉɯS said:

 

And to be super duper clear, paying benefits to the working poor isn't subsidising the poor - it's subsidising the employer so they can keep making profit from paying a poverty wage.

 

Yes. Like instead of hammering the energy/ oil companies through taxation they raise the 'caps' and give us winter grants/ loans that go straight to the shareholders of said companies. Britian is a basket case ffs.

[manaliveits105]

Merge with Tory Lies thread now that indyref2 dead and thread derailed 

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, Gundermann said:

 

Yes. Like instead of hammering the energy/ oil companies through taxation they raise the 'caps' and give us winter grants/ loans that go straight to the shareholders of said companies. Britian is a basket case ffs.

 

Best thing about that situation is that they now have Ofgem to blame.

 

Ofgem that listens to the industry, takes their advice and follows it, Ofgem that allows the government to go "eff all to do with us mate" when they're enacting what the government has set.

 

Ofgem's a watchdog for the energy companies, not for us.

[i wish jj was my dad]

28 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Merge with Tory Lies thread now that indyref2 dead and thread derailed 

It's talking about what is wrong in society and what needs to be fixed, addressing the point that benefits are just for sponges.  If you have a contribution to make to the debate you could always try to make it. 

[Ked]

21 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

Best 37 seconds of her life she’d get from me🤤

Pics please

[JudyJudyJudy]

39 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Merge with Tory Lies thread now that indyref2 dead and thread derailed 

The screeching is hysterical . Apparently no one is self responsible according to them . 

[TallPaul]

I thought this was a debate on independence? Turns out in an independent Scotland there will be loads of free money to go around. Just nobody has seen the economic plan yet.

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 minutes ago, TallPaul said:

I thought this was a debate on independence? Turns out in an independent Scotland there will be loads of free money to go around. Just nobody has seen the economic plan yet.

There will be even less money to go around and more unemployment if the greens get their way with huge losses in the oil and gas industry . Communities will be decimated ! Sounds very familiar ? 

Edited December 2, 2023 by JudyJudyJudy

[TallPaul]

2 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

There will be even less money to go around and more unemployment if the greens get their way with huge losses in the oil and gas industry . Communities will be decimated ! Sounds very familiar ? 

All correct but you need to take into consideration the people still supporting this dead cause are complete fantasist and the majority of them complete failures. 

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, TallPaul said:

All correct but you need to take into consideration the people still supporting this dead cause are complete fantasist and the majority of them complete failures.

 

Who hurt you Enzo?

[i wish jj was my dad]

12 minutes ago, TallPaul said:

I thought this was a debate on independence? Turns out in an independent Scotland there will be loads of free money to go around. Just nobody has seen the economic plan yet.

I doubt it but if the money is distributed more equitably it will go a lot further. 

[manaliveits105]

6 minutes ago, TallPaul said:

All correct but you need to take into consideration the people still supporting this dead cause are complete fantasist and the majority of them complete failures. 

That's a given 

[i wish jj was my dad]

8 minutes ago, TallPaul said:

All correct but you need to take into consideration the people still supporting this dead cause are complete fantasist and the majority of them complete failures. 

What and who is a failure? 

[Boof]

8 minutes ago, ǝǝɥʇᴉɯS said:

 

Who hurt you Enzo?

 

Nah - can't be. Enzo was a complete and utter arsehole.

 

TrollPaul is just as his name suggests - a troll. And a fairly shite one, at that.

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

I doubt it but if the money is distributed more equitably it will go a lot further. 

 

It's not complicated, it's a shifting of priority from the interests of the rich to the interests of the population. That's not going to happen at Westminster, not for long anyway, and we don't have any say in it due to our abject democratic dependence.

 

Scotland doesn't have to change much to make a big difference.

[Unknown user]

Just now, Boof said:

 

Nah - can't be. Enzo was a complete and utter arsehole.

 

TrollPaul is just as his name suggests - a troll. And a fairly shite one, at that.

 

Enzo was a complete and utter arsehole, it's true.

[TallPaul]

3 minutes ago, Boof said:

 

Nah - can't be. Enzo was a complete and utter arsehole.

 

TrollPaul is just as his name suggests - a troll. And a fairly shite one, at that.

Haha a Troll

 

The free money brigade seems extra sensitive this morning 

[JudyJudyJudy]

10 minutes ago, TallPaul said:

All correct but you need to take into consideration the people still supporting this dead cause are complete fantasist and the majority of them complete failures. 

Well they certainly have a loser mentality . Moan incessantly about how  crap life  is , yet absolve any responsibility to do something about it. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, TallPaul said:

Haha a Troll

 

The free money brigade seems extra sensitive this morning 

I’m having a fab day already . On the train to Killie to support the Hearts ♥️ I do wonder about some on this , I really do 

[TallPaul]

5 minutes ago, ǝǝɥʇᴉɯS said:

 

It's not complicated, it's a shifting of priority from the interests of the rich to the interests of the population. That's not going to happen at Westminster, not for long anyway, and we don't have any say in it due to our abject democratic dependence.

 

Scotland doesn't have to change much to make a big difference.

I'm sure big businesses will be lining up to operate in this socialist utopia you suggest.

[i wish jj was my dad]

2 minutes ago, TallPaul said:

Haha a Troll

 

The free money brigade seems extra sensitive this morning 

I haven't seen anybody suggest the money is free. 

[TallPaul]

1 minute ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

I’m having a fab day already . On the train to Killie to support the Hearts ♥️ I do wonder about some on this , I really do 

Good stuff I'm in the back of a pals car heading through. 3 of us having a laugh at some of the nut jobs on here 

[Boof]

2 minutes ago, TallPaul said:

Good stuff I'm in the back of a pals car heading through. 3 of us having a laugh at some of the nut jobs on here 

 

Ergo a troll. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

8 minutes ago, TallPaul said:

I'm sure big businesses will be lining up to operate in this socialist utopia you suggest.

But we have “ renewable “ energy like . Sounds like “ wind “ to me .

[JudyJudyJudy]

8 minutes ago, TallPaul said:

Good stuff I'm in the back of a pals car heading through. 3 of us having a laugh at some of the nut jobs on here 

Ditto ! 😂

[TallPaul]

8 minutes ago, Boof said:

 

Ergo a troll. 

Bad Ergo

[Boof]

10 minutes ago, TallPaul said:

Bad Ergo

 

Q.E.D.

[Ked]

55 minutes ago, TallPaul said:

All correct but you need to take into consideration the people still supporting this dead cause are complete fantasist and the majority of them complete failures. 

😆

[Ked]

Tall Paul and Judy.

 

So bitchy 😆😅

[Ked]

33 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

But we have “ renewable “ energy like . Sounds like “ wind “ to me .

57% of our energy came from renewable and 87% from low carbon.

Wind aye.

Pish naw.

And hopefully that grows .

Our natural resources are worth protecting and tgeir value is real.

 

 

[Ked]

46 minutes ago, TallPaul said:

Good stuff I'm in the back of a pals car heading through. 3 of us having a laugh at some of the nut jobs on here 

You and Judy are entertaining.

 

 

[i wish jj was my dad]

3 minutes ago, Ked said:

57% of our energy came from renewable and 87% from low carbon.

Wind aye.

Pish naw.

And hopefully that grows .

Our natural resources are worth protecting and tgeir value is real.

 

 

Of course there is. We are well placed to be a world leader in renewables and should be chucking the kitchen sink at it. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 minutes ago, Ked said:

You and Judy are entertaining.