Scottish independence and devolution superthread

[Ked]

4 hours ago, Dazo said:

Fair play for putting your embarrassment to one side but You’d be as well bumping the Santa Claus is real thread, more likely to see him than a referendum. 

But wait.

 

You and I agreed that both our political representatives are shit.

That's a double for me as I'm conservative minded but even Labour are just towing a line.

Will Santa sort the UK out anytime soon?

Can you explain please why you think remaining in the UK going forward is a good idea?

And forget Europe .

9r don't.

This is a thread about independent Scotland.

 

[Ked]

So let's hear a case for remaining part for starters in the economic block of the UK?

 

And I will argue back my views on it.

 

[Gundermann]

4 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Aye . Yet him and his ilk Constantly condemn others sources ! 

 

From the Daily Mail-reader...

 

I don't buy the National - it's not very good. The poll was done by Ipson though and is reported in various outlets.

 

I've no idea how reputable Ipsos are though. Maybe you could help?

[Ked]

Another concern for me about remaining is the health implications for us.

Why are we drunk more

Drugged up more?

It's a national mentality.

It's the same as making people benefit dependent. 

That's a big one for me and the most imprtant

[Ked]

Proper protection and reinvestment of our natural resources.

[Ked]

1 minute ago, Gundermann said:

 

From the Daily Mail-reader...

 

I don't buy the National - it's not very good. The poll was done by Ipson though and is reported in various outlets.

 

I've no idea how reputable Ipsos are though. Maybe you could help?

Don't respond to that pish.

Sorry Judy but let's talk seriously about independence. 

You once supported it.

 

[Gundermann]

59 minutes ago, Carter said:

I hate to be that guy, but....

 

https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/scottish-independence-referendum-westminster-voting-intention-26-27-november-2023/

 

 

Interesting. Vote Labour for Humza?

 

Quote

 

Scottish voters believe Humza Yousaf would be a better First Minister for Scotland than either Douglas Ross or Anas Sarwar. 

Yousaf (36%, -5) leads Ross (29%, +3) by seven points, while Yousaf (33%, -2) also leads Sarwar (29%, +1) by four points.

 

 

[manaliveits105]

Humza Yousaf’s latest net approval rating is -14%, down ten points from last month. 26% (-6) approve and 40% (+4) disapprove of his overall job performance since he became Leader of the SNP and First Minister of Scotland.

A plurality (43%, +3) say the current Scottish Government is incompetent, compared to 25% (-8) who say it is competent.

[Malinga the Swinga]

23 minutes ago, Ked said:

So let's hear a case for remaining part for starters in the economic block of the UK?

 

And I will argue back my views on it.

 

That's not how it works. You are ones arguing for change so you supply reasons why we shouldn't remain in UK.

Go ahead, I look forward to the sound economic reasons. 

Bit of help for you, try and avoid 'whatabout the Tories' in every sentence.

[TallPaul]

1 hour ago, Ked said:

So let's hear a case for remaining part for starters in the economic block of the UK?

 

And I will argue back my views on it.

 

I like things as they are. I see no need for constitutional and the economic chaos that would come with Scottish independence. 

[Nucky Thompson]

Polls eh. A bit like weather forecasters, they all say different things

Edited November 29, 2023 by Nucky Thompson

[Ked]

47 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

That's not how it works. You are ones arguing for change so you supply reasons why we shouldn't remain in UK.

Go ahead, I look forward to the sound economic reasons. 

Bit of help for you, try and avoid 'whatabout the Tories' in every sentence.

Reasons why we shouldn't is the easy part TP.

 

[Ked]

Just now, Ked said:

Reasons why we shouldn't is the easy part TP.

 

Sorry malinga

[Jeffros Furios]

There's no chance of Westminster allowing a referendum ..Section 30 ..

It's dead in the water,  finished .

[Ked]

10 minutes ago, TallPaul said:

I like things as they are. I see no need for constitutional and the economic chaos that would come with Scottish independence. 

I don't mind things either.

But let's not kid ourselves mate.

It's on the slide big time.

Loads of things.

 

Imo Scotlands pchyce is affected by being part of the UK.

I think we can do much better.

 

As I laid out initially I'm happy to argue the case economically ,health ,and protection of our resources.

 

None of which has benefitted Scotland in proportion. 

And that's a given.

[Ked]

1 minute ago, Jeffros Furios said:

There's no chance of Westminster allowing a referendum ..Section 30 ..

It's dead in the water,  finished .

Aye politically it's a country mile away.

However the case for independence isn't.

It's just not the socialist utopia some think it might or even could be.

But it doesn't have to be the fast becoming banana Republic England's route .

 

[Ked]

1 hour ago, manaliveits105 said:

Humza Yousaf’s latest net approval rating is -14%, down ten points from last month. 26% (-6) approve and 40% (+4) disapprove of his overall job performance since he became Leader of the SNP and First Minister of Scotland.

A plurality (43%, +3) say the current Scottish Government is incompetent, compared to 25% (-8) who say it is competent.

There's an SNp thread.

This threads about independence,devolution.

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

46 minutes ago, Ked said:

think we can do much better.

In what ways ? 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, TallPaul said:

I like things as they are. I see no need for constitutional and the economic chaos that would come with Scottish independence. 

Thsts where I am .

[Jim_Duncan]

51 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said:

There's no chance of Westminster allowing a referendum ..Section 30 ..

It's dead in the water,  finished .

Humza will be raging if we have to surrender the dream. 
 

White flag: WHITE. 

[Ked]

13 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

In what ways ? 

Economically for a start.

And u also believe that independence would be good for our overall health and addiction problems.

Not addiction problems but the scale.

Unless you don't believe there is a national concious about Scotland?

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Ked said:

Economically for a start.

And u also believe that independence would be good for our overall health and addiction problems.

Not addiction problems but the scale.

Unless you don't believe there is a national concious about Scotland?

So how would we be Better off economically 

[jack D and coke]

1 minute ago, Ked said:

Economically for a start.

And u also believe that independence would be good for our overall health and addiction problems.

Not addiction problems but the scale.

Unless you don't believe there is a national concious about Scotland?

You always argue a decent case and I’m defo on your side despite not being hell bent on it. The argument that fiscal transfers is all we’ve got for ever isn’t a great plan imo. 
All the wealth and money flows out of Scotland. We don’t control anything of note. 
Too much of everything is foreign owned but that’s what WM does.
It’s all about selling things off for private profit. 
There’s a few posters you should avoid they don’t post in good faith man. 
 

[Malinga the Swinga]

2 minutes ago, Ked said:

Economically for a start.

And u also believe that independence would be good for our overall health and addiction problems.

Not addiction problems but the scale.

Unless you don't believe there is a national concious about Scotland?

Please explain further how economy will improve? So far, no-one has been able to explain in any detail how this will be achieved, what currency we will use, how we will work out pensions and what level of state debt we will take on.

We are already in charge of our own health and it's a diaster and our drug problem is getting worse. 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Please explain further how economy will improve? So far, no-one has been able to explain in any detail how this will be achieved, what currency we will use, how we will work out pensions and what level of state debt we will take on.

We are already in charge of our own health and it's a diaster and our drug problem is getting worse. 

 

Yes 👍 I’d like to know this , genuinely ! 

[JudyJudyJudy]

5 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

You always argue a decent case and I’m defo on your side despite not being hell bent on it. The argument that fiscal transfers is all we’ve got for ever isn’t a great plan imo. 
All the wealth and money flows out of Scotland. We don’t control anything of note. 
Too much of everything is foreign owned but that’s what WM does.
It’s all about selling things off for private profit. 
There’s a few posters you should avoid they don’t post in good faith man. 
 

😂😂

[jack D and coke]

1 minute ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

😂😂

What’s funny?  

[jack D and coke]

1 minute ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

😂😂

I’d turn you inside out on politics James. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

😂😂

Your “ posters who don’t post in good faith “ comment . Care to elaborate or can’t you stand others who have opposing views so discredit them by calling them “ bad faith posters “ . ? 

[jack D and coke]

Just now, JudyJudyJudy said:

Your “ posters who don’t post in good faith “ comment . Care to elaborate or can’t you stand others who have opposing views so discredit them by calling them “ bad faith posters “ . ? 

Why, did you assume I meant you? 
Some people don’t post in good faith. He’s trying to have a decent debate. 
Didn't think it was that controversial a statement. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Why, did you assume I meant you? 
Some people don’t post in good faith. He’s trying to have a decent debate. 
Didn't think it was that controversial a statement. 

But what do you mean in “ bad faith ?

[jack D and coke]

Just now, JudyJudyJudy said:

But what do you mean in “ bad faith ?

People who don’t want to debate. 
Just post nonsense. Try to get a rise. 
I’m sure you know who I mean. 

 

[jack D and coke]

I can talk to anyone about it. If you’re not an arse that is. 
I don’t think I know it all or that I’m right all the time. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

So  like a few others have asked why should Scotland become independent ? 
 

thats another way of asking the question ? 
 

as far as I can see its about silly wee borders , lines on a map . Nationalism at its worse really . What’s so wrong being in a union ? Most on this were happy with the EU 

[Ked]

32 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

You always argue a decent case and I’m defo on your side despite not being hell bent on it. The argument that fiscal transfers is all we’ve got for ever isn’t a great plan imo. 
All the wealth and money flows out of Scotland. We don’t control anything of note. 
Too much of everything is foreign owned but that’s what WM does.
It’s all about selling things off for private profit. 
There’s a few posters you should avoid they don’t post in good faith man. 
 

I know you get it mate.

Scotlands wealth is jealously guarded by who?

Not by fekin us anyway.

And it bothers me that people from this country who are conservative minded don't see it?

Especially conservative minded. 

It should be conservative people trying to conv8nce socialist people ffs.

But it seems the union and its symbols ate more important than political outlook.

 

Oooffft 

 

😄😄😄😄moan then 

 

Stick in Jack 👍

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, Ked said:

Scotlands wealth

If we are that wealthy why do we need independence ? 

[Ked]

25 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

So  like a few others have asked why should Scotland become independent ? 
 

thats another way of asking the question ? 
 

as far as I can see its about silly wee borders , lines on a map . Nationalism at its worse really . What’s so wrong being in a union ? Most on this were happy with the EU 

I'm happy to answer that .

 

Our national pchyce for a start.

Judy ffs your conservative and bemoan benefits etc.

But as a nation with obvious nationhood except without the benefits of top table nationhood you want a fekin giro fro London

[Ked]

1 minute ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

If we are that wealthy why do we need independence ? 

Because its a resource that shouldn't be squandered on policies that benefit the few for the many.

And not for the benefit of voters in tory heartlands at the expense of Scottish voters.

And I mean that in terms of management.

Judy we are as part if the UK currently 100% in debt.

We have had a circus an embarrassing circus who facilitated incompetence and theft way beyond the incompetence of the bams up here.

Where do you see rec9very as part of the UK.

Scottish independence won't be easy but it's a chance to do better.

Imo that's the choice .

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

24 minutes ago, Ked said:

conservative and bemoan benefits etc.

Wrong on both counts . 

[jack D and coke]

33 minutes ago, Ked said:

I know you get it mate.

Scotlands wealth is jealously guarded by who?

Not by fekin us anyway.

And it bothers me that people from this country who are conservative minded don't see it?

Especially conservative minded. 

It should be conservative people trying to conv8nce socialist people ffs.

But it seems the union and its symbols ate more important than political outlook.

 

Oooffft 

 

😄😄😄😄moan then 

 

Stick in Jack 👍

And you pal👍🏼

[Boris]

2 hours ago, TallPaul said:

I like things as they are. I see no need for constitutional and the economic chaos that would come with Scottish independence. 

Yet under the current Westminster model we get the same.

If you want to destroy the various independence groups within the UK, it's not (imo) about giving devolved areas more power as a sop, it's about making the British political system fit for the 21st century.

Sadly, will never happen therefore jumping ship seems as appetising as staying.

[Ked]

9 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Wrong on both counts . 

Am I fek.

You healthy go after that.

 

[jack D and coke]

58 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

So  like a few others have asked why should Scotland become independent ? 
 

thats another way of asking the question ? 
 

as far as I can see its about silly wee borders , lines on a map . Nationalism at its worse really . What’s so wrong being in a union ? Most on this were happy with the EU 

It’s silly wee lines granted you just can’t argue that. But everything that has any value here is sold off and the wealth flows out. That’s how deficits happens.
We control very little. 
Since Thatcher it’s all been about extracting wealth for private profit. 

Scotland has resources coming out our ears. 
We have a tragic govt in holyrood too though. I have little faith in them. 
 

[JudyJudyJudy]

This thread is just similar to the Sturgeon one. 
 

I hope there is an Indy ref soon so we can put the issue to bed either way . I’ll accept either vote as I believe in democracy . 
 

I’m not advocating for change so I don’t have to put forward any arguments . I prefer the status quo.  That does not mean I am any less Scottish 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 

[Carter]

3 hours ago, Jeffros Furios said:

There's no chance of Westminster allowing a referendum ..Section 30 ..

It's dead in the water,  finished .

Rightly so. The matter is settled.

[Dazo]

11 hours ago, Ked said:

But wait.

 

You and I agreed that both our political representatives are shit.

That's a double for me as I'm conservative minded but even Labour are just towing a line.

Will Santa sort the UK out anytime soon?

Can you explain please why you think remaining in the UK going forward is a good idea?

And forget Europe .

9r don't.

This is a thread about independent Scotland.

 

You keep labouring the point we’ve both agreed on and no idea why. Just be clear for the last time, I think both governments are utter shite.

I’m not saying it’s a good idea or a bad idea for that matter. I just think for the unknown risks involved I simply don’t see the point of swapping one shite government for another. Plus Scotlands electorate is a little too left for me and yes before someone bores me I’m aware of the current tax burden we face under the Tory government. Fact is comparable workers in England pay a lot less. 

[Carter]

41 minutes ago, windsor1874 said:

How's that wee comfort blanket this morning? Nice and cosy aye? See when that comfort blanket gets ripped off in 5/10/25 years time (and it will, its just a matter of when rather than if), what a sight the tears and snotters from the unionists is going to be!

Very cosy indeed. Appreciate you asking.

 

The matter is settled. Best to simply accept that reality. You'll feel better in the long run.

[Japan Jambo]

10 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

This thread is just similar to the Sturgeon one. 
 

I hope there is an Indy ref soon so we can put the issue to bed either way . I’ll accept either vote as I believe in democracy . 
 

I’m not advocating for change so I don’t have to put forward any arguments . I prefer the status quo.  That does not mean I am any less Scottish 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 

 

There was a vote, the issue is already settled, it's not the best of three. If you believe in democracy accept the result, a bit Trumpian to ask for a redo just because you don't like the result. 🤷‍♂️

[manaliveits105]

10 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

There was a vote, the issue is already settled, it's not the best of three. If you believe in democracy accept the result, a bit Trumpian to ask for a redo just because you don't like the result. 🤷‍♂️

Indeed we already have the settled will of the Scottish people 

[TallPaul]

10 hours ago, Boris said:

Yet under the current Westminster model we get the same.

If you want to destroy the various independence groups within the UK, it's not (imo) about giving devolved areas more power as a sop, it's about making the British political system fit for the 21st century.

Sadly, will never happen therefore jumping ship seems as appetising as staying.

We've had inflation and rising interest rates as has every country in the world. 

 

How can people believe Scotland would prosper economicly in the event of independence when those advocating it have failed to present an economic case? Boo Tories and bad Westminster isn't a convincing argument.