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Happy Hearts

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Isn't it more to do with Russia? Russia being a huge exporter? London and Wall St playing a game with Putin to try to financially hurt them? This is what I've been reading....

 

Incidentally Russia raised interest rates by 6% yesterday to offset this price war and nobody batted an eyelid!!! Can you imagine what that would do to the UK or US? Incredible!!!

You're right. This oil situation is power politics. Russia was set to ride out sanctions being imposed by the west over the Ukraine by pumping more and more oil on high prices. But the USA, EU and OPEC nations are ordering huge amounts to be brought into the market to collapse the oil price and provoke domestic and economic headaches for Putin forcing him to withdraw from the Ukraine.

 

Its 21st century power politics.

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Exactly this!   I was thinking about the naysayers and then thought about WHY a movement would want to lead a nation into independence which would ultimately lead to financial ruin, expulsion from c

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jack D and coke

You're right. This oil situation is power politics. Russia was set to ride out sanctions being imposed by the west over the Ukraine by pumping more and more oil on high prices. But the USA, EU and OPEC nations are ordering huge amounts to be brought into the market to collapse the oil price and provoke domestic and economic headaches for Putin forcing him to withdraw from the Ukraine.

 

Its 21st century power politics.

I thank you Jambo X2.

 

I won't hold my breath for the apology from deeside tho.

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So when the price goes back? Because it will....

They'll still have been wrong. The SNP were predicting the price to remain near constant at that level and to rise in the years to come. Not to drop. They're entire spending plans were also based on rising oil prices, as was their borrowing plans. Had we been independent it would've been a major headache for an incoming government.

 

I abhor austerity, but the spending we need isnt what we've had. It's money for railways, roads, infrastructure in the round, money for schools, money for colleges, money for apprenticeships, money for childcare and money for housing. Not money for benefits, the NHS and similar things. Not saying cut welfare and the NHS. But at times like this child tax credit money is a waste as it's an unproductive benefit and more NHS money to keep certain hospitals open and not rationalising is again a waste to education money to skill workers.

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Psychedelicropcircle

* no it wouldn't as we'd be still part of the Union until 2016. When the dick measuring between the west and Russia is over (and russia is winning) the prices will return. Indyref regardless of outcome the oil price would be the same. It's called a global economy. In which everyone plays a part.

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jack D and coke

* no it wouldn't as we'd be still part of the Union until 2016. When the dick measuring between the west and Russia is over (and russia is winning) the prices will return. Indyref regardless of outcome the oil price would be the same. It's called a global economy. In which everyone plays a part.

Im sure some people thought we went indy on sept 18th eh :facepalm:
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* no it wouldn't as we'd be still part of the Union until 2016. When the dick measuring between the west and Russia is over (and russia is winning) the prices will return. Indyref regardless of outcome the oil price would be the same. It's called a global economy. In which everyone plays a part.

Yes we all know when where to break free. A slump in oil and gas prices and an emerging jobs crisis in North Sea Oil would've affected negotiations though and the likely shape of an independent Scotland's balance of trade.

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The situation in Russia is a textbook example of why the White Paper and subsequent SNP positioning was foolhardy on currency.

 

In similar circumstances of oil price crash, tethering the Scottish currency to that of the UK would have not seen the currency adjust, would not have seen monetary policy change and would have seen the Scottish reserves disappear in days.  As said during the referendum debate it is not controversial economics.

 

It is also why the Smith proposals are foolhardy and should be thrown out by Westminster.

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The situation in Russia is a textbook example of why the White Paper and subsequent SNP positioning was foolhardy on currency.

 

In similar circumstances of oil price crash, tethering the Scottish currency to that of the UK would have not seen the currency adjust, would not have seen monetary policy change and would have seen the Scottish reserves disappear in days. As said during the referendum debate it is not controversial economics.

 

It is also why the Smith proposals are foolhardy and should be thrown out by Westminster.

Why are the smith proposals flawed in the transfer of the tax it proposes to devolve?

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He can't help himself. Became used to being treated like a King by his followers.

 

He then lost the referendum, had to stand down and will now have to fight for limelight. I bet Sturgeon probably wishes he'd GTF

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Guest Trapper John

He can't help himself. Became used to being treated like a King by his followers.

 

He then lost the referendum, had to stand down and will now have to fight for limelight. I bet Sturgeon probably wishes he'd GTF

 

Taxi driver's will say anything for a tip...

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The White Cockade

Salmond or Sturgeon in the limelight - who cares?

The SNP are still dominating Scottish politics

The other three established parties are political pygmies at the moment

In a UK context the same three parties are also in turmoil otherwise Farrage's pitiful

UKIP wouldn't be posing such athtreat

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http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/dec/20/alex-salmond-peasants-revolt-type-referendum-abolish-house-of-lords?CMP=share_btn_t

Salmond calling for a peasants revolt over the Lords in England.

 

Can you imagine the pant wetting if an English politician had called for that in Scotland?

 

The internet would have exploded with the faux outrage of the 45

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http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/dec/20/alex-salmond-peasants-revolt-type-referendum-abolish-house-of-lords?CMP=share_btn_t

Salmond calling for a peasants revolt over the Lords in England.

 

Can you imagine the pant wetting if an English politician had called for that in Scotland?

 

The internet would have exploded with the faux outrage of the 45

 

The Conservatives should offer a "We'll abolish the House of Lords and the Scottish Parliament" compromise.

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Hahahaha

 

Will the silver anniversary of the Ceaucescus' execution be toasted with a wee dram in the Boris dacha?

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Guest Trapper John

there is certainly faux outrage on here for sure

 

Nothing faux about it.

 

Salmond is outrageous. A taxi driver tells him he'd vote differently next time therefore Alex concludes another referendum is required.

 

The only certainty about that story is that Eck would have asked the driver for a receipt.

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The White Cockade

hopefully the next fererendum will see a Yes vote

if at first you don't succeed, Robert the Bruce and the spider etc

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hopefully the next fererendum will see a Yes vote

if at first you don't succeed, Robert the Bruce and the spider etc

 

What about "You asked us, suspending government for two years, we said No, now you don't accept and want to suspend government permanently"?

 

Na, the gowd said No. No means No.

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Guest Trapper John

What about "You asked us, suspending government for two years, we said No, now you don't accept and want to suspend government permanently"?

 

Na, the gowd said No. No means No.

 

There's nothing like the sovereign will of the people and once in a generation, indeed once in a lifetime...the tide of history, its in our grasp...day of reckoning... ad nauseum.

 

Celtic Tiger, Iceland, Norwegian oil fund, hidden oilfields, oil price at $113 a barrel, advice from the EU...balance of power in Westminster..Has the man ever been right about anything?

 

He even cheats at Scrabble.

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There's nothing like the sovereign will of the people and once in a generation, indeed once in a lifetime...the tide of history, its in our grasp...day of reckoning... ad nauseum.

 

Celtic Tiger, Iceland, Norwegian oil fund, hidden oilfields, oil price at $113 a barrel, advice from the EU...balance of power in Westminster..Has the man ever been right about anything?

 

He even cheats at Scrabble.

 

Now, I'm a semi-serious Scrabble player. That is an especially low blow.

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I kind of feel that the SNP are playing a cynical game. Contrast their announcements in comparison to the Greens or SSP. Whilst all 3 were clearly disappointed by the outcome the SNP have by far been reluctant and very quick to cry foul. They belittled Smith whilst it was running. And since its delivery it has claimed it has betrayed the people and have set the framework for another vote by fostering a resentment.

 

The position is flawed. There was no clear structure or aim for Smith. No shape to what quasi-federalism is meant Smith could deliver whatever and it'd be a win. Much like Salmond's devo-max idea of old, it lacked shape and different parties were able fill a void with their vision. It's therefore vacuous to suggest betrayal as there was no promise beyond more powers.

 

Smith had time to be a 4 stage process - 1. What does the Scottish Parliament do now? 2. What should it do and how it relates to other devolved institutions and Westminster? 3. What extra powers it needs? 4. What extra resource it needs to make this a reality?

 

It didn't. It was a bidding process and mess. It's allowed the SNP to cry foul and make out it failed. It wasn't good enough a process to consider this and by its nature it has allowed this Salmond argument to run of betrayal. As a result the SNP, if they win 20+ seats will and don't get the concessions they want (Smith+ - ie corporation tax etc) then they will run an election to hold a new referendum, and it'll be a snap referendum imo. This is a mess. But it's a mess because of cynicism and opportunism by the SNP which treats democracy as nothing more than a doormat and becuase the no parties have put no great strategic thinking into their plans beyond Smith. It's a farce and one which is treating voters of both camps like they're idiots.

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Guest Trapper John

I kind of feel that the SNP are playing a cynical game. Contrast their announcements in comparison to the Greens or SSP. Whilst all 3 were clearly disappointed by the outcome the SNP have by far been reluctant and very quick to cry foul. They belittled Smith whilst it was running. And since its delivery it has claimed it has betrayed the people and have set the framework for another vote by fostering a resentment.

 

The position is flawed. There was no clear structure or aim for Smith. No shape to what quasi-federalism is meant Smith could deliver whatever and it'd be a win. Much like Salmond's devo-max idea of old, it lacked shape and different parties were able fill a void with their vision. It's therefore vacuous to suggest betrayal as there was no promise beyond more powers.

 

Smith had time to be a 4 stage process - 1. What does the Scottish Parliament do now? 2. What should it do and how it relates to other devolved institutions and Westminster? 3. What extra powers it needs? 4. What extra resource it needs to make this a reality?

 

It didn't. It was a bidding process and mess. It's allowed the SNP to cry foul and make out it failed. It wasn't good enough a process to consider this and by its nature it has allowed this Salmond argument to run of betrayal. As a result the SNP, if they win 20+ seats will and don't get the concessions they want (Smith+ - ie corporation tax etc) then they will run an election to hold a new referendum, and it'll be a snap referendum imo. This is a mess. But it's a mess because of cynicism and opportunism by the SNP which treats democracy as nothing more than a doormat and becuase the no parties have put no great strategic thinking into their plans beyond Smith. It's a farce and one which is treating voters of both camps like they're idiots.

 

 

There's no secret to what the SNP are. They want all or nothing; they're a nationalist movement after all. Why debate it ad nauseum?

 

They've been shown the door by the Scottish people and as a nationalist movement that is a historical anomaly which is deeply shameful and embarrassing to them no matter the bluster they show. And particularly painful to them when they next meet their chums from places like Catalonia for a sing-song and group huddle.

 

They do not care a damn about running Scotland effectively. All they want is one thing and they'll do and say anything to get it.

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There's no secret to what the SNP are. They want all or nothing; they're a nationalist movement after all. Why debate it ad nauseum?

 

They've been shown the door by the Scottish people and as a nationalist movement that is a historical anomaly which is deeply shameful and embarrassing to them no matter the bluster they show. And particularly painful to them when they next meet their chums from places like Catalonia for a sing-song and group huddle.

 

They do not care a damn about running Scotland effectively. All they want is one thing and they'll do and say anything to get it.

:cornette:  :gok:  :trippin:

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http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/548127/SNP-white-paper-costs-reach-2-5m-Alex-Salmond-independence

 

?2.5m for the White Paper & Swinney waits until most MSPs have left for Christmas to announce it.

 

The SNP should pay for it. It was a work of fantasy. A manifesto of porky pies that tried to trick is into voting Yes.

 

What was it? 2 pages out of 600 odd on the economy? A disgrace

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Even by the now circle jerk standards of this thread that's reaching. The democratically elected government of the country should refund public spending on things I don't individually approve of because: reasons. Sounds like a sensible precedent to set.

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There's no secret to what the SNP are. They want all or nothing; they're a nationalist movement after all. Why debate it ad nauseum?

 

They've been shown the door by the Scottish people and as a nationalist movement that is a historical anomaly which is deeply shameful and embarrassing to them no matter the bluster they show. And particularly painful to them when they next meet their chums from places like Catalonia for a sing-song and group huddle.

 

They do not care a damn about running Scotland effectively. All they want is one thing and they'll do and say anything to get it.

Thing is my post is also directed at the No camp which monumentally screwed up. Cameron going awol on EVEL handed the Yes camp a means to hit them over the head before the Smith commission ran. Both sides have utterly failed the Scottish people. It's a shambles.

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http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/548127/SNP-white-paper-costs-reach-2-5m-Alex-Salmond-independence

 

?2.5m for the White Paper & Swinney waits until most MSPs have left for Christmas to announce it.

 

The SNP should pay for it. It was a work of fantasy. A manifesto of porky pies that tried to trick is into voting Yes.

 

What was it? 2 pages out of 600 odd on the economy? A disgrace

No. They won an election. They were the government they can publish it if they want. It was their policy.

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Has Fat smuggy Eck Salmond been spraffing something about an English referendum? 

 

I'll assume it's about EVEL or English Parliament. 

 

Good idea from Eck, would give the idea legitimacy, rather than have Tories(eg.John Redwood) constantly whine on about how the idea was in their UK manifesto 13/9/4.5yrs ago.  

 

I might even get a vote in that referendum.

 

(Apologies if already mentioned.)

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Government with landslide mandate spending money to meet manifesto promises shocker. :vrface:

Based on the outcome a significant majority clearly viewed it a pointless two year exercise and Imo I can think of many better ways to have spent that money. And better ways government could've spent its time. But they won an election and it was a manifesto commitment.

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Guest Trapper John

Thing is my post is also directed at the No camp which monumentally screwed up. Cameron going awol on EVEL handed the Yes camp a means to hit them over the head before the Smith commission ran. Both sides have utterly failed the Scottish people. It's a shambles.

 

It might be a shambles to you but most people just want to get on with their lives now and couldn't care less. As for all these polls you can take them any way you like but when Joan McAlpine calls on yes voters to sign up in their droves to YouGov (Mr Murdoch's organisation by the way) and you think they present a true picture of intentions then that's up to you.

 

The fact is Smith delivered more than was expected. Of course the SNP won't be happy with it. As Cameron said to Sturgeon, stop bleating and get on with it.

 

SNP, the only party that makes even the Tories look respectable.

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jambos are go!

The more the SNP get embroiled in the Wesminster village the happier Unionists should be. The fall in the oil price would cost each and every Scot a ?1000 as pointed out in the FT if we had voted YES. That shortfall will be shared and mitigated by whole of the UK who will enjoy greater growth on the back of lower energy prices. That is a fact and not a debating point and Unionists should hammer that home.

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What a strange thing to say.

 

Yes, it was, apologies, it doesn't read as I intended it. Mods, could you delete my post and Boris's quote of it, please?

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Yes, it was, apologies, it doesn't read as I intended it. Mods, could you delete my post and Boris's quote of it, please?

 

Oh, don't worry about it.  S'all cool in Tsarskoye Selo. :thumb:

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jack D and coke

The more the SNP get embroiled in the Wesminster village the happier Unionists should be. The fall in the oil price would cost each and every Scot a ?1000 as pointed out in the FT if we had voted YES. That shortfall will be shared and mitigated by whole of the UK who will enjoy greater growth on the back of lower energy prices. That is a fact and not a debating point and Unionists should hammer that home.

We wouldn't be independent yet so it wouldn't have cost us anything.

 

Why not discuss the oil price in say 2 years?

 

If your like most No voters and not prepared to admit we would've been minted in the 30 years previous when we were being lied to by WM governments then why bang about something that wouldn't have happened yet either?

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We wouldn't be independent yet so it wouldn't have cost us anything.

 

Why not discuss the oil price in say 2 years?

 

If your like most No voters and not prepared to admit we would've been minted in the 30 years previous when we were being lied to by WM governments then why bang about something that wouldn't have happened yet either?

 

It's interesting how vociferous some sections of NO voters are these days about the SNP.  It's almost as if they realise that the referendum may well have been a Pyrrhic victory.

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Guest Trapper John

It's interesting how vociferous some sections of NO voters are these days about the SNP.  It's almost as if they realise that the referendum may well have been a Pyrrhic victory.

No, not vociferous, merely holding them to account. 

 

You're allowed to do that in democracy.

 

And the 'No' side are heavily outnumbered on this forum as you well know, or are you happy for us just to disappear?

 

If we do we'll be back come election time. Count on it.

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I thank you Jambo X2.

 

I won't hold my breath for the apology from deeside tho.

Thats because you wont get one. If you seriously think the global oil price is being manipulated by London and Washington good luck to you.   Its a global open market based on supply and demand, it always has been, and always will be.

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It's interesting how vociferous some sections of NO voters are these days about the SNP.  It's almost as if they realise that the referendum may well have been a Pyrrhic victory.

Not really.  I get aggravated because Yes keep on claiming that somehow they "won".   Well they did win in Dundee and East Glasgow schemes I suppose.       But everywhere else they got hammered.  

 

Anyway I think Ecks attempt to win Gordon is not going to be as easy as people think, especially if he maintains the smug method of campaigining.

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