Scottish independence and devolution superthread

[TheMaganator]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/mobile/politics/referendum-news/silver-medallist-lynsey-sharp-fms-being-unfair-to-no-voting-scots-with-his-.1410369653?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Scottish%2520News

 

Top actual Team Scotland totty, Lynsey Sharp, isn't pleased with Salmond's remarks.

[jambos are go!]

In the Caribbean st present and a little concerned at the shift in the polls. My labour insider has however told all will be well.

 

Scotland has to much sense to vote for the nonsense that is Independence. We won't set asunder what our forefathers have built.

 

Back on the 20th to dear old blighty but will keep an eye on things.

[JamboX2]

First time this week I've seen the news on this whole thing... Been in England all week. Channel 4, is it SNP policy to be a smug git on the TV every time you go on TV. Hamza Usef just laughing at Jenny Marra and prevaricating on every concern.

 

Just a tiring debate now. Really just needs to end either way.

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

Still though he is to put in new constitution the keeping of the NHS free.

 

The NHS isn't free.

[dc-jambo]

Well was poll on 26-28 aug? If so, seems to devalue it somewhat

[Brandt]

The NHS isn't free.

 

Ok, it wont be privatised.

[Don Draper]

http://blogs.channel4.com/paul-mason-blog/indyref-questions-cameron-miliband-clegg/2251

[Ivan Drago]

 

Kenny McKaskill refusing to address mine and the chimp's points about the currency union. Using France and Germany as an example of a successful union (the same union as Spain, Greece, Ireland etc)

[OBE]

Who is going to pay for all these promises, when all the finance jobs (Standard Life, RBS, Lloyds BoS, Tesco) & manufacturing jobs (Selex, Thales, BAE Systems) go south of the border?

 

Its the people on benefits that will suffer the most. Just like Greece.

 

Tens of thousands of jobs you're referring to. Where in England will these people be housed? Where will there children go to school? Which office space, factory space, ship building space (if it still exists) will they use?

[Juan Jose Carricondo Perez]

A slight Hearts slant on it. Wee Sam has nailed his colours to the mast tonight.

 

[Ivan Drago]

A slight Hearts slant on it. Wee Sam has nailed his colours to the mast tonight.

 

Knew he was a bright kid

[DETTY29]

Tens of thousands of jobs you're referring to. Where in England will these people be housed? Where will there children go to school? Which office space, factory space, ship building space (if it still exists) will they use?

If every job has to go to England, then I'll expect all the overseas back office operations in these companies based in Poland, India etc to return to England too.

Edited September 10, 2014 by DETTY29

[sarissa]

It fits the narrative from them - voting No makes you anti-Scottish.

 

Petty and offensive

 

You mean petty and offensive like this?

 

http://wingsoverscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/hatekids.jpg

 

(Mods note - this is pic link only, no comments attached)

Edited September 10, 2014 by sarissa

[TheMaganator]

 

Kenny McKaskill refusing to address mine and the chimp's points about the currency union. Using France and Germany as an example of a successful union (the same union as Spain, Greece, Ireland etc)

 

"Let's just see what happens after independence"

 

[Coco]

 

Kenny McKaskill refusing to address mine and the chimp's points about the currency union. Using France and Germany as an example of a successful union (the same union as Spain, Greece, Ireland etc)

 

Notwithstanding the deliberate ignoring of Greece and Spain ... pointing to France as an example of a successful member of a currency union is incredible.

[Ivan Drago]

 

"Let's just see what happens after independence"

 

 

That's me sold.

[TheMaganator]

 

 

That's me sold.

They honestly don't care what happens. Yes is the prize - everything else will be fine because, er, we say so

[Vic Vespa]

They honestly don't care if we'll be better off. Being tied in an unfair union is the prize - everything else will be bad because, err, we say so.

[red21]

"Let's just see what happens after independence"

 

Incredible attitude - not surprising given his track record.

[Maple Leaf]

Well, the quality of the discussion seems to have deteriorated in the last few hours. Can we please stick to the relative merits of the proposition, presented in a reasonable manner, and have fewer comments like 'odious plonker' and 'smug git'. Thanks.

[Thunderstruck]

"Independence is for keeps, you can't take it back to the shops if it doesn't work." Well said Jim

 

And, it's clear to see why Kenny doesn't get let out very often.

[hughesie27]

Ian Godden, UK defence and Oil industried figure, has swapped from BT campaigner to a Yes vote. He reckons that the propaganda from No about oil running out anytime soon is the biggest political scaremongering he has seen.

[Thunderstruck]

 

 

You mean petty and offensive like this?

 

http://wingsoverscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/hatekids.jpg

 

(Mods note - this is pic link only, no comments attached)

 

How are the BT posters offensive while the mother/baby hand-in-hand poster by Yes is not?

 

 

[BoJack Horseman]

The way I see it, before the news was littered with the referendum, it was all about how shit the government and the economy are. It's hardly like we're living in paradise right now. So we can say yes, and maybe have a shite government and economy. Or vote no, and definitely have a shite government and economy.

 

I'm well aware it's nowhere near as simple as that, but I just can't see how we can moan and moan for years about how the country's being run, then claim that it's without doubt better than the alternative.

Edited September 10, 2014 by BoJack Horseman

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

 

 

Notwithstanding the deliberate ignoring of Greece and Spain ... pointing to France as an example of a successful member of a currency union is incredible.

That will be France that is headed for recession. Germany too.

[Thunderstruck]

Ian Godden, UK defence and Oil industried figure, has swapped from BT campaigner to a Yes vote. He reckons that the propaganda from No about oil running out anytime soon is the biggest political scaremongering he has seen.

 

Maybe he should have consulted oil industry experts in the exploration and recovery field.

 

Nobody has said the oil will run out. What will happen, as confirmed by BP and Ian Wood, is that ECONOMICALLY RECOVERABLE oil is becoming harder to find.

 

If, repeat if, Salmond's predictions about a "doubling" of production comes to pass (it won't) and assuming price meets inflation, revenues might reach ?8 to ?9bn per annum. An extra ?3 to ?4bn as a maximum and that is before the promised Corporation Tax cut for the oil industry.

 

We would need that simply to meet the costs of borrowing on existing debt.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

The way I see it, before the news was littered with the referendum, it was all about how shit the government and the economy are. It's hardly like we're living in paradise right now. So we can say yes, and maybe have a shite government and economy. Or vote no, and definitely have a shite government and economy.

 

I'm well aware it's nowhere near as simple as that, but I just can't see how we can moan and moan for years about how the country's being run, then claim that it's without doubt better than the alternative.

Which is perfectly fair. Just cut the apron strings in the process rather than trying to cherry pick the "good stuff".

[jambo1185]

How is Kenny allowed out the house? He's always been totally useless. I can only assume he has dirt of Alex, who is far too shrewd a man to otherwise have someone so incompetent on his front line.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Has Fiona Hyslop of the SNP been asked about the announcement of her former employer, Standard Life?

[Don Draper]

How is Kenny allowed out the house? He's always been totally useless. I can only assume he has dirt of Alex, who is far too shrewd a man to otherwise have someone so incompetent on his front line.

 

You could well have something there.

[jambojimbo81]

There are the short , medium and long term considerations for everyone. I'm wrestling with the fact that whether there is a yes or no vote, there is so much that will never get better - petrol price, energy bills, food price, wages, council tax, income tax, overcrowding in nhs. None of these things will be cheaper or better, regardless of what we vote.

 

I'm going for a yes vote but am doing so with lots of unanswered questions.

 

Who's excited and who's terrified?

Edited September 10, 2014 by jambojimbo81

[BlackhallJambo]

Let's just ask ourselves the question why Gavin McCrones research regarding the impact of North Sea oil, commissioned by the UK government was immediately categorised as secret in the mid 70s by the Scottish Office and the Uk government. Or why the goalposts were changed at the last minute in the 1979 devolution campaign. Or why lie after lie is told about currency union, NATO, the EU. Why large PLCs are keeping their breeks and threatening to pull out.

 

Why is is it that for every ?100 raised by Scotland through oil we only get ?70 back and the other 30% gets re distributed round the UK.

 

If we were such a drain on the UK exchequer as the Tories keep telling us why don't they tell us to clear off. Mmmmm wonder why?

 

Hope over fear every time.

[jambo1185]

Why is is it that for every ?100 raised by Scotland through oil we only get ?70 back and the other 30% gets re distributed round the UK.

 

How much of every ?100 raised by the North East will be re-distributed round the rest of an independent Scotland?

 

I'm always surprised that this notion of a fairer, more equal, society should only apply down to Hadrian's wall.

Edited September 10, 2014 by jambo1185

[jambojimbo81]

I work with a girl from London and she only moved up here last year. Up until this week she had no real idea what the referendum was about. She doesn't mean to be insulting but she is from a wealthy part of London and doesn't view Scotland as a serious country in any way. She asked if we became independent, what would we do because as a country we don't really do anything!?

[jambo1185]

Dear Mr Salmond, why on earth would Standard Life be bluffing?

[Thunderstruck]

Let's just ask ourselves the question why Gavin McCrones research regarding the impact of North Sea oil, commissioned by the UK government was immediately categorised as secret in the mid 70s by the Scottish Office and the Uk government. Or why the goalposts were changed at the last minute in the 1979 devolution campaign. Or why lie after lie is told about currency union, NATO, the EU. Why large PLCs are keeping their breeks and threatening to pull out.

 

Why is is it that for every ?100 raised by Scotland through oil we only get ?70 back and the other 30% gets re distributed round the UK.

 

If we were such a drain on the UK exchequer as the Tories keep telling us why don't they tell us to clear off. Mmmmm wonder why?

 

Hope over fear every time.

 

I am interested to know how, out of all of the revenues that flow in and out of Scotland, someone can say we only get 70% back to spend. If our public spending is 105%* of revenues raised in Scotland, somebody elsewhere must be "shortchanged". That is how tax works - redistribution of wealth to where it is needed most.

* Net of spending not considered "public" like Network Rail where Scotland gets well over a per capita or GDP share or the subsidy of wind farms all over our "wee bit hill and glen" by English energy consumers.

 

 

[jambogaza]

I work with a girl from London and she only moved up here last year. Up until this week she had no real idea what the referendum was about. She doesn't mean to be insulting but she is from a wealthy part of London and doesn't view Scotland as a serious country in any way. She asked if we became independent, what would we do because as a country we don't really do anything!?

 

The scary thing is, there will be many people voting with this sort of attitude/understanding. Scary.

[TheMaganator]

Let's just ask ourselves the question why Gavin McCrones research regarding the impact of North Sea oil, commissioned by the UK government was immediately categorised as secret in the mid 70s by the Scottish Office and the Uk government. Or why the goalposts were changed at the last minute in the 1979 devolution campaign. Or why lie after lie is told about currency union, NATO, the EU. Why large PLCs are keeping their breeks and threatening to pull out.

 

Why is is it that for every ?100 raised by Scotland through oil we only get ?70 back and the other 30% gets re distributed round the UK.

 

If we were such a drain on the UK exchequer as the Tories keep telling us why don't they tell us to clear off. Mmmmm wonder why?

 

Hope over fear every time.

This, for me, is a square that can never be circled - why do you only want to use Scotland's money to benefit Scots?

 

Funny type of social justice.

 

What Tories are saying we're a drain?

 

Btw the 1970s were 40 odd years ago. Time to move on.

 

 

[Boris]

 

Dear Mr Salmond, why on earth would Standard Life be bluffing?

 

Well, they obviously were at previous Devo elections...

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Well, they obviously were at previous Devo elections...

 

Did they ever make a statement to the Stock Exchange before?

 

PS That can be a trick question

[ToadKiller Dog]

 

 

 

Well, they obviously were at previous Devo elections...

 

Keith Skeoch Executive director of standard life .On the board of reform Scotland the NeoCon group that wants to scrap the minimum wage , privatise the NHS and Pensions , put in place more anti trade union laws .

Pretty clear why he would use his position to defend Westminster .

 

The rest of the board of standard life is of much if the same persuasion .

Edited September 10, 2014 by ToadKiller Dog

[fabienleclerq]

Something I don't understand, so hopefully someone can help. If we gain independance and agree a currency union, people are saying the BoE will set interest rates etc. In what way is that differant to now? Or if we vote no and get more power?

 

Either way I vote if a CU is agreed will my interest rate be the same? I'm maybe not getting it but the only way it seems it'll be differant is of there's a yes vote and we have our own bank?

[Hasselhoff]

 

Alex kemp agrees 15-16bn barrels of oil and suggests there are 99 extra oil fields, a claim which is dismissed by Ian Wood in the above video.

 

Of course, oil is just a bonus though.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Something I don't understand, so hopefully someone can help. If we gain independance and agree a currency union, people are saying the BoE will set interest rates etc. In what way is that differant to now? Or if we vote no and get more power?

 

Either way I vote if a CU is agreed will my interest rate be the same? I'm maybe not getting it but the only way it seems it'll be differant is of there's a yes vote and we have our own bank?

 

It is about what else goes with currency union.that is the key point. There is currently a fiscal union in the UK in that all government borrowing and its levels is controlled by Westminster. In a currency union, you have sovereign governments setting their own borrowing and spending. However, they have to move in lock step otherwise the markets will charge differing rates of interest for the borrowing. This is what led to the chaos in the Euro.

[Ivan Drago]

Something I don't understand, so hopefully someone can help. If we gain independance and agree a currency union, people are saying the BoE will set interest rates etc. In what way is that differant to now? Or if we vote no and get more power?

 

Either way I vote if a CU is agreed will my interest rate be the same? I'm maybe not getting it but the only way it seems it'll be differant is of there's a yes vote and we have our own bank?

 

At the moment the BoE sets interest rates that it believes are appropriate for the UK. How do they set them if they need to set them for both the UK and Scotland? Will they (attempt to) pick one that suits both countries? Or one that just suits the Uk or one that just suits Scotland? Bearing in mind apparently an independent Scotland will have a very different economy to England how does the BoE go about this?

 

No one knows if your interest rate would be the same in a currency union. The Scottish government won't have any input as to what the BoE does to interest rates though.

[Chris Benoit]

The way I see it, before the news was littered with the referendum, it was all about how shit the government and the economy are. It's hardly like we're living in paradise right now. So we can say yes, and maybe have a shite government and economy. Or vote no, and definitely have a shite government and economy.

 

I'm well aware it's nowhere near as simple as that, but I just can't see how we can moan and moan for years about how the country's being run, then claim that it's without doubt better than the alternative.

 

 

 

This is where I am. Also working in the public sector with a wife who's a nurse I have no faith in our future prospects under Westminster.

[DETTY29]

3 Scottish banks confirmed to BBC enough money will remain in Scotland to support economy in event of Yes.

 

RBS to announce tomorrow HQ to move to London.

 

 

[fabienleclerq]

 

 

At the moment the BoE sets interest rates that it believes are appropriate for the UK. How do they set them if they need to set them for both the UK and Scotland? Will they (attempt to) pick one that suits both countries? Or one that just suits the Uk or one that just suits Scotland? Bearing in mind apparently an independent Scotland will have a very different economy to England how does the BoE go about this?

 

No one knows if your interest rate would be the same in a currency union. The Scottish government won't have any input as to what the BoE does to interest rates though.

 

Does Scotland not have a different economy at the moment? For example people said that the pound falling helped exports, surely Scotland is an exporter mostly? If the BoE sets the rate atm that might not be in Scotland's best interest now. So what's the differance?

[Ivan Drago]

Does Scotland not have a different economy at the moment? For example people said that the pound falling helped exports, surely Scotland is an exporter mostly? If the BoE sets the rate atm that might not be in Scotland's best interest now. So what's the differance?

 

Well no, because the UK has one shared economy.

[TheMaganator]

3 Scottish banks confirmed to BBC enough money will remain in Scotland to support economy in event of Yes.

 

RBS to announce tomorrow HQ to move to London.

The banks have been stock piling cash to survive any run thatsy happen after the vote.

 

But they do that before any election - I am

told.

Edited September 10, 2014 by TheMaganator