Scottish independence and devolution superthread

[ToadKiller Dog]

Features a letter from Head of RBS to staff , confirms some of what's been said .

No job losses or moves of staff south planned

 

http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/rbs-ceo-tells-staff-zero-rbs-job-losses-when-scotland-votes-yes/

Edited September 11, 2014 by ToadKiller Dog

[Greenbank2]

I think the rule is that your HQ needs to be in the country that you do most trade in - hence RBS move to rUK.

 

I don't think its a reason to get polish the tinfoil hat.

 

p.s Salmond called for less regulation of that sector and congratulated Fred the Shred on the deal that eventually led to RBS's collapse. The idea that an iScoland would have behaved differently is a nonsense

 

What the media are not saying, but implying - is that everyone who works at gogar etc. would have their jobs moved. Utter pish. RBS and the others are a business and will not disrupt their incredibly conservative businesses beyond what is absolutely necessary. Any move will be based on necessity not emotion.

 

And you are right on your second point - if you're interested, there is a very good book called "Making it Happen - Fred Goodwin, RBS and the Men who Blew Up the British Economy". Fred was a scapegoat. All the others were equally to blame. If anything, the takeaway is that these so called captains of industry are egotistic, self centred, prima donnas. They wrecked the economy and are still not honest about how they did it (most of them don't actually know!!!!) What gives them the right to pontificate on how an independent Scotland will be? They didn't see the train wreck that is their own industry coming. Gypsy Rose Lee has a deeper insight than these guys.

[Greenbank2]

Thought I'd just post this quote from the RBS Chief Exec today. Where is the impartiality of the media now?

 

This is a technical procedure regarding the location of our registered head office. It is not an intention to move operations or jobs.

Our current business in Scotland, including the personal and business bank, IT and operations, human resources and many other functions, are here because of the skills and knowledge of our people, and the sound business environment. So far, I see no reason why this would change should we implement our contingency plans.

Edited September 11, 2014 by Greenbank2

[westbow]

Are there any left wing, internationalist voters voting No? I was speaking to a leafletter in the meadows yesterday who wanted larger block socialism (GB) rather than voting with nationalists.

[ToadKiller Dog]

Are there any left wing, internationalist voters voting No? I was speaking to a leafletter in the meadows yesterday who wanted larger block socialism (GB) rather than voting with nationalists.

 

The old Tankies in the CPGB are advocating a no vote , can't be many of them still around .

[leginten]

 

Thought I'd just post this quote from the RBS Chief Exec today. Where is the impartiality of the media now?

 

This is a technical procedure regarding the location of our registered head office. It is not an intention to move operations or jobs.

Our current business in Scotland, including the personal and business bank, IT and operations, human resources and many other functions, are here because of the skills and knowledge of our people, and the sound business environment. So far, I see no reason why this would change should we implement our contingency plans.

 

Nobody should really be surprised at this stuff. It was always going to be the case that the media would be used creatively in the last couple of weeks by those who have influence, regardless of which side of the debate they're on. It just so happens that more people on the pro-Union side have friends in the media who'll put out misleading headlines than the Yes campaign does.

 

As with the enhanced powers package - or rather timetable - if there was a real story to come out about major company relocations of personnel, it would have come out long before now.

[jambogaza]

Bbc has been shown up big time over the rbs issue. The accepted the report at face value and didn't challenge the assertion that jobs would be lost. Really really poor.

[hughesie27]

Missed todays proceedings and announcements. Anyone fancy giving.me an update?

[EIEIO]

Bbc has been shown up big time over the rbs issue. The accepted the report at face value and didn't challenge the assertion that jobs would be lost. Really really poor.

Both BBC and RBS are UK taxpayer/ government institutions so it's hardly surprising, while still dissappointing .

[Thunderstruck]

 

 

 

Nobody should really be surprised at this stuff. It was always going to be the case that the media would be used creatively in the last couple of weeks by those who have influence, regardless of which side of the debate they're on. It just so happens that more people on the pro-Union side have friends in the media who'll put out misleading headlines than the Yes campaign does.

 

As with the enhanced powers package - or rather timetable - if there was a real story to come out about major company relocations of personnel, it would have come out long before now.

 

Unless news is taken from Bloggs or Facebook, neither of the above are new this week.

 

The additional powers were first outlined several months ago and this week is simply adding a timetable to that. Of course they are going to do last minute campaigning, we would complain if they did not.

 

The relocation of business is a real threat that has been in and our of discussion almost since the debate started but grew in fervour after the currency announcement.

[TheMaganator]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/11089388/North-Korea-backs-Scottish-independence.html

 

North Korea backs Independece for Scotland.

 

That's nice

[Greenbank2]

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/11089388/North-Korea-backs-Scottish-independence.html

 

North Korea backs Independece for Scotland.

 

That's nice

 

I honestly though this was from the Daily Mash.

 

Arse wipe establishment rag.

[OmiyaHearts]

Nick Robinson and Alex Salmond having a nice chat.

 

http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-09-11/salmond-shouts-down-heckles-from-bbcs-robinson/

 

He also mentions an investigation into leaked information from the treasury to the BBC.

[Forrest]

Missed todays proceedings and announcements. Anyone fancy giving.me an update?

 

Pistorius not guilty of murder but could still be done on manslaughter.

[Boris]

Nick Robinson and Alex Salmond having a nice chat.

 

http://www.itv.com/n...-bbcs-robinson/

 

He also mentions an investigation into leaked information from the treasury to the BBC.

 

The interview on Good Morning Scotland is pretty good. BBC interviewer a bit grouchy!

 

[TheMaganator]

Police on Buchanan St keeping one sides angry mob away from another's press event.

 

Sad state of affairs

[john5698]

As i've just said to another post, your opinion on his style does not reflect the results of the poll.

 

Further, if Cameron would destroy Salmond why the refusal?

 

Lastly, how well did Cameron do in the general election debates?

 

It's clear many NO voters don't like Salmond, but surely no one can argue that Salmond has run a very effective campaign, even if No triumph next week with a narrow win, Salmond's campaign has been a success. It's disingenuous not to think Salmond has got his message over well and has resonated with the voters.

Is that the poll (which incidentally I really do not bother about) which appears to see the yes vote losing ground. Just like everything it is my opinion, just like your opinion is not fact either and just like Alex salmond's way forward at the moment is basically only his opinion, no proof as to how this is going to work, I think looking at Salmond yesterday the strain of it all is getting to him. Salmond's camapign is only a success if he wins.

[The Mighty Thor]

Again, not quite..

 

A portion of the Babcock workforce are seconded Royal Navy Personnel.

And again are those guaranteed scottish MOD jobs or are they only in Scotland because that's where the tender was won?

 

All MOD jobs a re transient. Personne;l can be based anywhere there is a need, therefore there's no such thing as a guaranteed scottish MOD job.

[john5698]

Maybe people haven't noticed or don't realise, but the currency issue is not a winner for No; it's a winner for Yes.

 

It might sound illogical, but twice in 2014 the currency issue has been top of the debate agenda, and on both occasions there has been a step change upwards in the level of support for Yes.

 

Currency isn't primarily about economics, but about politics. That's why the rUK wouldn't want a currency union with an independent Scotland, why an independent Scotland shouldn't want one with them, why the UK is not part of the eurozone, why Iceland went one route to resolving the banking crisis but Ireland went another, and why Germany propped up the recovery efforts in Greece, Ireland and Portugal when all economic logic told them not to.

 

When you pull a twenty out of an ATM, that banknote has a meaning and significance that goes far beyond what it will buy you in the shops or the pub.

Currency is the most single important issue of this whole campaign, obviously there are othersl ike the NHS, but Salmond does not have the answer to the Currency issue and that is only your opinion that the currency issue has been a winner for the yes vote. When Salmond was asked at the second debate with Darling he came out with the ridiculous statement of having 3 plan B's, just unbelieveable, no plan A but 3 plan B's not even classing them as B, C and D, what a joke.

[leginten]

 

 

 

Unless news is taken from Bloggs or Facebook, neither of the above are new this week.

 

The additional powers were first outlined several months ago and this week is simply adding a timetable to that. Of course they are going to do last minute campaigning, we would complain if they did not.

 

The relocation of business is a real threat that has been in and our of discussion almost since the debate started but grew in fervour after the currency announcement.

 

Sorry, none of this washes. Why is a timetable for enhanced powers being launched and pushed hard in the media after some people have actually voted? Why has Mark Carney's position hardened since the weekend? Why have stories gone out through the media suggesting that major job relocation for RBS is likely when it turns out that this is untrue? If you don't think Conservative and Labour have leant very hard on their friends in high finance and the media since the YouGov poll, you're very naive. I said at the weekend we'd see media black ops in full swing in the run-up to the vote, and they haven't disappointed so far.

[Thunderstruck]

 

And again are those guaranteed scottish MOD jobs or are they only in Scotland because that's where the tender was won?

 

All MOD jobs a re transient. Personne;l can be based anywhere there is a need, therefore there's no such thing as a guaranteed scottish MOD job.

 

I would hazard a guess that the many thousand jobs in Faslane & Coulport and surrounding districts are as safe as can reasonably be assumed if it is a No vote. Remembering that the Astute Subs (which are not "Bombers") will soon be there bringing more jobs. The same can be said of Leuchars and Lossie/Kinloss with the re-basing work being completed.

 

Again if there is a No Vote, the naval construction work is secure to the mid-20s while the Type 26 and Type 27 "Future Frigates" are built. Having job security of more than 2 years would be a luxury for a sizeable part of the workforce.

 

[Thunderstruck]

 

 

 

Sorry, none of this washes. Why is a timetable for enhanced powers being launched and pushed hard in the media after some people have actually voted? Why has Mark Carney's position hardened since the weekend? Why have stories gone out through the media suggesting that major job relocation for RBS is likely when it turns out that this is untrue? If you don't think Conservative and Labour have leant very hard on their friends in high finance and the media since the YouGov poll, you're very naive. I said at the weekend we'd see media black ops in full swing in the run-up to the vote, and they haven't disappointed so far.

 

I'll turn it round and ask why the NHS in Scotland wasn't a even a topic of discussion until the "Plan B" fiasco.

 

Being naive is expecting nothing but polite banter in the last week. Temperatures are rising on both sides.

[Hasselhoff]

I'll turn it round and ask why the NHS in Scotland wasn't a even a topic of discussion until the "Plan B" fiasco.

 

Being naive is expecting nothing but polite banter in the last week. Temperatures are rising on both sides.

 

I always use the same response when I hear people saying it's panic by WM. No mention of NHS until they realised it was one of the things people appreciate most and spun it into an argument for them.

 

Surely even if there was a CU, BoE would be telling Scotland how much they could borrow and effectively giving them a total value to spend, which they need to divide up the way they see fit.... bit like right now actually!! Some independence that!

[Don Draper]

The interview on Good Morning Scotland is pretty good. BBC interviewer a bit grouchy!

 

http://youtu.be/o7gRSOsbBA0

 

On good form there. Made the interviewer look a bit silly a couple of times.

[red21]

Asda now saying Scottish prices could be higher in the event of a Yes vote

[leginten]

 

 

 

I'll turn it round and ask why the NHS in Scotland wasn't a even a topic of discussion until the "Plan B" fiasco.

 

Being naive is expecting nothing but polite banter in the last week. Temperatures are rising on both sides.

 

I think we're agreeing here. I expected nothing but what is actually happening, as I pointed out above. But in the media dirty tricks campaign, the odds are heavily weighted against one side.

[rossthejambo]

Asda now saying Scottish prices could be higher in the event of a Yes vote

 

Prices for things are already different around different stores for every supermarket chain in Britain though.

[TheMaganator]

ASDA have come out & strongly implied it'll cost is.

 

Scaremongering - no doubt

[Brandt]

Ta. Cheaper in Scotland or all UK?

 

Certainly cheaper here, i remember that.

[Brandt]

ASDA have come out & strongly implied it'll cost is.

 

Scaremongering - no doubt

 

Then folk will just shop somewhere else.

[hughesie27]

Supermarkets will battle it out to be the cheapest just as they always have. It will be a slow race to see who bumps up a pint of Milk by 10p first. Tesco or ASDA? Nobody will want to go first.

[doctor jambo]

I think we're agreeing here. I expected nothing but what is actually happening, as I pointed out above. But in the media dirty tricks campaign, the odds are heavily weighted against one side.

 

Because the NHS in Scotland is underpinned by joint services

The GMC, NMWC, BMA ,UNISON

The first two in particular

Without the first two- mandatory membership at present and both based in ENglandshire none of us are allowed to work.

REgulation, training, appraisal and revalidation all take place to allow pateints to feels safe- there has been no discussion as to a post indie alternative- let alone costed and staffed adn monitored

ANd as the fees for all these come from the nurses and DR's it would be nice to know how much this is going to cost

Also our litigation insurance

Currently it costs me ?6000 per annum for all that and I pay it myself

After independence? Who pays set up costs?

[The People's Chimp]

Police on Buchanan St keeping one sides angry mob away from another's press event.

 

Sad state of affairs

 

 

Utter lies. I strolled up Buchanan St on my lunch break and had a lovely wee saunter in the sun. There were various large groups of campaigners, huge flags, lots of discussion, and two bored looking bobbies relaxing under a tree.

[BoJack Horseman]

Prices for things are already different around different stores for every supermarket chain in Britain though.

 

Don't let the facts get in the way of a nice story.

[rossthejambo]

Don't let the facts get in the way of a nice story.

 

Exactly. You can go to the Sainsburys on Rose Street and pay a different price for something from the Sainsburys at Straiton.

 

I'm not suggesting it's not true before someone starts arguing, but it's not as if prices are uniform around Britain at the moment.

[BoJack Horseman]

Exactly. You can go to the Sainsburys on Rose Street and pay a different price for something from the Sainsburys at Straiton.

 

I'm not suggesting it's not true before someone starts arguing, but it's not as if prices are uniform around Britain at the moment.

 

"prices might increase" holds as much weight to me as "prices might decrease". Because they might. NO ONE ACTUALLY KNOWS.

[Juan Jose Carricondo Perez]

ASDA have come out & strongly implied it'll cost is.

 

Scaremongering - no doubt

 

Genuine question.

Has the head of big company come out and said it'll be fine, business as usual?

[Hugh Phamism]

ASDA have come out & strongly implied it'll cost is.

 

Scaremongering - no doubt

 

That'll be ASDA, owned by Wallmart, who have stores in all 50 of the US States, and different pricing in each depending on local competition, supply and demand, etc.

[BoJack Horseman]

What if, what if, what if. I'm actually sick of it all. I've barely heard anything about facts, it's all just sheer speculation. Extreme speculation at that. RBS IS AWAY TO ENGLAND, IF YOU WORK FOR RBS YOU MIGHT AS WELL JUST TOP YOURSELF. Wait, no, that's not true at all.

[missed98]

Is that the poll (which incidentally I really do not bother about) which appears to see the yes vote losing ground

 

No, im talking about the poll taken after the debate which showed Salmond was the clear winner.

 

Just like everything it is my opinion, just like your opinion is not fact either and just like Alex salmond's way forward at the moment is basically only his opinion, no proof as to how this is going to work, I think looking at Salmond yesterday the strain of it all is getting to him. Salmond's camapign is only a success if he wins.

 

I don't agree with that last statement, considering the gap of 2 years ago to now (yougov, Ipsos, panelbase et al), all have had massive swings from No to Yes. Salmond's campaign is clearly the better one. I don't see how anyone can argue this point.

[Don Draper]

Been asked to do a wee talk on the referendum at the high school my wife works at here in Minnesota. I'm sure I'll be a paragon of impartiality.

[ToadKiller Dog]

Asda now saying Scottish prices could be higher in the event of a Yes vote

 

Asda released a statement the start of the week similar to Tescos rubbishing the No leaflet claim of 16% price rises saying prices could be cheaper or higher depending on regulations .

[BoJack Horseman]

Asda released a statement the start of the week similar to Tescos rubbishing the No leaflet claim of 16% price rises saying prices could be cheaper or higher depending on regulations .

 

Well at least we know there will still be prices.

[The Mighty Thor]

ASDA have come out & strongly implied it'll cost is.

 

Scaremongering - no doubt

I'm calling bollocks on this.

 

They have a fully integrated distribution network which includes scottish hubs.

[TheMaganator]

 

 

Asda released a statement the start of the week similar to Tescos rubbishing the No leaflet claim of 16% price rises saying prices could be cheaper or higher depending on regulations .

 

 

@nigelsanthony: ASDA CEO: If separate "our business model would inevitably become more complex. We would have to reflect our cost to operate here." #indyref

[Boris]

Been asked to do a wee talk on the referendum at the high school my wife works at here in Minnesota. I'm sure I'll be a paragon of impartiality.

 

Start of with something like, "In 1776 the brave people of these States decided that they had had enough of Westminster...." or "...will Scotland decide to cross her allegorical Potomac on Thursday"

 

Dress up like a minuteman and you'll have them eating out of your hand.

 

[TheMaganator]

 

I'm calling bollocks on this.

 

They have a fully integrated distribution network which includes scottish hubs.

See above

[Boris]

@nigelsanthony: ASDA CEO: If separate "our business model would inevitably become more complex. We would have to reflect our cost to operate here." #indyref

 

So it could actually be cheaper then?

[EIEIO]

The more of these orchestrated scare stories from BT the more I think of Sergay and co on vermin.net and their Hertz is going bust stories/predictions.

[john5698]

I don't agree with that last statement, considering the gap of 2 years ago to now (yougov, Ipsos, panelbase et al), all have had massive swings from No to Yes. Salmond's campaign is clearly the better one. I don't see how anyone can argue this point.

Salmond's is certainly the most vocal, but still hasn't put accross his currencyarguement well.