Guest GhostHunter Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 There has been nothing from three no campaign to give us any insight on our future after a no vote. Not a hint. Why should the questions flow one way? It's meant to be a two way debate after all. What do you want to know ? Banking sector remains unchanged. Defence Industry jobs remain unchanged Warship and Carrier programmes remain in Scotland NHS remains unchanged Scottish Government remains unchanged. That coupled to the extra powers being ironed out ... Status Quo is your friendly phrase Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo, Goodbye Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 What do you want to know ? Banking sector remains unchanged. Defence Industry jobs remain unchanged Warship and Carrier programmes remain in Scotland NHS remains unchanged Scottish Government remains unchanged. That coupled to the extra powers being ironed out ... Status Quo is your friendly phrase NHS unchanged? That won't be happening. What powers specifically? What about the 1 in 5 children in poverty? Will there be more cuts, more austerity? Will we see more national services being sold off on the cheap? Are MPs getting that 10% pay rise? Will the unelected house of Lords continue to bloat? Will we have more or less food bank? What's the next illegal war to jump into? Why are shipbuilding jobs continuing to decrease? And why will there possibly be an in/out referendum on the EU from a government we may not vote for? Is that really democracy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Draper Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 I think we've got it, JG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo, Goodbye Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Wtf is wrong with kickback :/ To answer the post... NHS unchanged? That won't be happening. What powers specifically? What about the 1 in 5 children in poverty? Will there be more cuts, more austerity? Will we see more national services being sold off on the cheap? Are MPs getting that 10% pay rise? Will the unelected house of Lords continue to bloat? Will we have more or less food bank? What's the next illegal war to jump into? Why are shipbuilding jobs continuing to decrease? And why will there possibly be an in/out referendum on the EU from a government we may not vote for? Is that really democracy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Wtf is wrong with kickback :/ To answer the post... NHS unchanged? That won't be happening. What powers specifically? What about the 1 in 5 children in poverty? Will there be more cuts, more austerity? Will we see more national services being sold off on the cheap? Are MPs getting that 10% pay rise? Will the unelected house of Lords continue to bloat? Will we have more or less food bank? What's the next illegal war to jump into? Why are shipbuilding jobs continuing to decrease? And why will there possibly be an in/out referendum on the EU from a government we may not vote for? Is that really democracy? Great questions. Pity that an independent Scotland will produce the same answers as the rest of the UK. Still, at least the blame game will stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GhostHunter Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Wtf is wrong with kickback :/ To answer the post... NHS unchanged? That won't be happening. What powers specifically? What about the 1 in 5 children in poverty? Will there be more cuts, more austerity? Will we see more national services being sold off on the cheap? Are MPs getting that 10% pay rise? Will the unelected house of Lords continue to bloat? Will we have more or less food bank? What's the next illegal war to jump into? Why are shipbuilding jobs continuing to decrease? And why will there possibly be an in/out referendum on the EU from a government we may not vote for? Is that really democracy? Those are UK issues and will presumably be addressed as they always have been, by a UK government. Shipbuilding jobs continuing to decrease ? Not really true though now - yes, jobs went last year as current contracts ended however, new warships & the 2nd Carrier will bolster the the requirement for MORE shipyard jobs ACROSS the UK (& in particular Scotland), and news that the Ferguson Yard has been bought by a foreign owner, pretty much kyboshes your argument. And - the next illegal war to be jumped into ? What makes you think an independent Scotland wouldn't immediately follow suit, and jump in as well ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maple Leaf Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Life after a 'No' vote is also likely to be extremely painful for Scots. There is a growing sense of English nationalism afoot. Thus, the sense of recrimination, even after a 'No' vote, will linger long, since many English people have construed anti-Westminster as espoused by the 'Yes' campaign as anti-Englishness. Visit the forum of any English football club and the enmity towards Scots is genuinely distressing, so anyone who thinks life will carry on as if nothing has happened after this may have to think again. I don't think that those English feelings you describe are new, although the referendum may have helped focus their enmity. My wife and I lived in England for two years and had some disquietening experiences because of our nationality. It's likely that some English people resent that the referendum is being held, especially if they perceive that the Westminster politicians are ready to give Scotland special treatment because of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabienleclerq Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 There's a few worried. That's why we're seeing headlines like this in the FT & Sterling took a pounding yesterday. As I said yesterday - at least the uncertainty gone. We now know what waits for us if we vote Yes. Had a couple of pints with a lawyer & fund manager tonight - both discussing what they think they'll have to do on the 19th if we vote Yes to try and reassure their clients. Was at a law conference this morning. Whilst Salmond was getting cheers outside the conveyancers were discussing how they're being affected already - 'Residential house sales have fallen off a cliff' was said numerous times in various forms. Read that Telegraph blog above - that's from economists with no BT agenda Surely this would happen close to the vote regardless of how the polls were? Markets don't like uncertainty. Its funny the no side keep coming out with the "milk and honey" and "utopia" stuff yet would have us believe that we will be living like some third world country within two weeks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SE16 3LN Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Surely this would happen close to the vote regardless of how the polls were? Markets don't like uncertainty. Its funny the no side keep coming out with the "milk and honey" and "utopia" stuff yet would have us believe that we will be living like some third world country within two weeks! Well, the yes campaign have repeatedly said it wouldn't happen in any circumstances and here it is happening at the mere prospect of a yes victory. How bad it will get and how quickly the recovery takes is anyone's guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Here's some sobering reading for us all in the event of a Yes vote. If this is to be met with the usual 'scaremongering' - can I ask what the agenda is? "Here is the Credit Suisse note this morning on the shock in store for Scotland if it chooses to break up our Union, and if Britain declines to come to the rescue. It expects: recession; deposit flight; 20pc devaluation; 5/10pc cut in wages. Just so you know, it is written by Andrew Garthwaite, Marina Pronina, Robert Griffiths, Nicolas Wylenzek, Richard Kersley, and Ashlee Ramanathan, a mix of nationalities." http://blogs.telegra...k-for-scotland/ I note with interest that the author fails to touch on the same economic calamity facing the rUK if Scotland votes yes. A moderately reliable poll at the weekend took 1% off sterling and increased sales of immodium in the square mile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leginten Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/referendum/9720-more-confusion-over-extra-powers-as-darling-concedes-there-will-be-compromises This package of enhanced powers sounds more and more irresistible by the day... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 [deleted] Simple question, no? How will an independent Scotland be 'fairer'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriel Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/referendum/9720-more-confusion-over-extra-powers-as-darling-concedes-there-will-be-compromises This package of enhanced powers sounds more and more irresistible by the day... I read that the Scots are to be given new powers to legislate on air guns! Could that be the deal breaker? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hasselhoff Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Simple question, no? How will an independent Scotland be 'fairer'? By dragging people who are doing well down to poverty too so we are all in the same boat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 (edited) You really are nailing your colours to the mast here. Do you not worry that you'll look a wee bit silly if yes wins and everything is pretty normal in a year. Serious question by the way. How are you so sure of these outcomes when even the BT leaders have indicated otherwise? Sterling has taken a hit and investors are pulling money out of Scotland. Residential house sales (I'm told) have fallen off a cliff. These are things that are happening now. I won't feel silly if everything is wonderful in a years time - I'll be delighted and will be happy to admit I'm wrong. How will you feel in a year if everything is far from fine? Will you care or are you one of the people for whom independence is the prize and everything else doesn't really matter? Edited September 10, 2014 by TheMaganator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 I've voted no and sadly I think it will be a yes now. I am in this boat. Scary how such a momentous change could be decided by a few thousand votes on favour. Those were the rules and I will accept defeat if it happens but it's a concern when such a small majority (and not of total electorate) vote for change. A similarly narrow NO vote would not warrant too much bragging either, I should add. I almost would have preferred 90% YES because I could at least accept the overwhelming population wanted this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoda Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 http://newsnetscotla...-be-compromises This package of enhanced powers sounds more and more irresistible by the day... Who is going to pay for all these promises, when all the finance jobs (Standard Life, RBS, Lloyds BoS, Tesco) & manufacturing jobs (Selex, Thales, BAE Systems) go south of the border? Its the people on benefits that will suffer the most. Just like Greece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriel Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Well, the yes campaign have repeatedly said it wouldn't happen in any circumstances and here it is happening at the mere prospect of a yes victory. How bad it will get and how quickly the recovery takes is anyone's guess. You're right, it is a guess, but the media will paint the darkest of pictures. The Pound fell against the Dollar, but oddly enough the Euro has also fallen against the Dollar at the same time and been relatively stable with the Pound: not mentioned in the media, though. We're told that 'the markets don't like uncertainty', yet that seems to be how people make profits, by trading on prices fluctuating. When I checked at one point yesterday, the prices of those Scottish shares that were ''being wiped off' on Monday had started to rise: not mentioned in the media, though. Any suggestion of change induces fear, but the balance of reporting in this referendum is unashamedly skewed. I watched an interview on Sky yesterday where someone from the Economist stated that the effects of this referendum debate on the market are what you would expect when such change is mooted. However, he then said it would be nothing to what we will see if there is a UK referendum on exiting the EU. The presenter was visibly squirming and did her best to shut him up, terrified that this Scottish 'melt down' might somehow be trumped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hasselhoff Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 [deleted] How much will it all cost? An accurate estimate with breakdowns for all the new systems we require? Who will pay for it all? When there are inevitable job losses, those people then require benefits too. Who pays for that? Snp say no increased taxes... How is that possible? We are spending the money saved on trident about 5 times over from what I've read and seen. All no are doing is asking the basic questions that need answered. By accusing people who ask reasonable questions of scaremongering is farcical. As for the last minute bribe by no on the powers, what about no bringing up that NHS is now suddenly at risk despite their being no mention of it prior to a few months ago? Where was it mentioned in the white paper? Astonishing bullshitting of highest magnitude to sway people who can't see past the romantic notion of independence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMA MAROON Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Yep, they are happy to belittle anyone that has concerns and accuse them of scaremongering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GhostHunter Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Who is going to pay for all these promises, when all the finance jobs (Standard Life, RBS, Lloyds BoS, Tesco) & manufacturing jobs (Selex, Thales, BAE Systems) go south of the border? Its the people on benefits that will suffer the most. Just like Greece. Correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo1185 Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 (edited) I note with interest that the author fails to touch on the same economic calamity facing the rUK if Scotland votes yes. A moderately reliable poll at the weekend took 1% off sterling and increased sales of immodium in the square mile. Why would it? Its a report on the effects of independence in Scotland, not rUK. If the report did mention the rUK position would it make any difference to your vote? If not, why mention it. Edited September 10, 2014 by jambo1185 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hasselhoff Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 How much will it all cost? An accurate estimate with breakdowns for all the new systems we require? Who will pay for it all? When there are inevitable job losses, those people then require benefits too. Who pays for that? Snp say no increased taxes... How is that possible? We are spending the money saved on trident about 5 times over from what I've read and seen. All no are doing is asking the basic questions that need answered. By accusing people who ask reasonable questions of scaremongering is farcical. As for the last minute bribe by no on the powers, what about no bringing up that NHS is now suddenly at risk despite their being no mention of it prior to a few months ago? Where was it mentioned in the white paper? Astonishing bullshitting of highest magnitude to sway people who can't see past the romantic notion of independence. Of course I meant yes bringing up the NHS thing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMA MAROON Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 I don't think that those English feelings you describe are new, although the referendum may have helped focus their enmity. My wife and I lived in England for two years and had some disquietening experiences because of our nationality. It's likely that some English people resent that the referendum is being held, especially if they perceive that the Westminster politicians are ready to give Scotland special treatment because of it. Go into any pub during an England game and you'll see how a lot of Scots feel about the English. Of course they resent it. It looks to them like we are saying we are better than them, that they are not as good as us and asking if we are too good to be part of the Union. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandt Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Those are UK issues and will presumably be addressed as they always have been, by a UK government. Shipbuilding jobs continuing to decrease ? Not really true though now - yes, jobs went last year as current contracts ended however, new warships & the 2nd Carrier will bolster the the requirement for MORE shipyard jobs ACROSS the UK (& in particular Scotland), and news that the Ferguson Yard has been bought by a foreign owner, pretty much kyboshes your argument. And - the next illegal war to be jumped into ? What makes you think an independent Scotland wouldn't immediately follow suit, and jump in as well ? http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/alex-salmond-nukes-war-banned-1780288 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GhostHunter Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 http://www.dailyreco...-banned-1780288 That's assuming Salmond is in charge after the election presumably ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandt Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Who is going to pay for all these promises, when all the finance jobs (Standard Life, RBS, Lloyds BoS, Tesco) & manufacturing jobs (Selex, Thales, BAE Systems) go south of the border? Its the people on benefits that will suffer the most. Just like Greece. I odnt believe half these companies will actually go. Scaremongering on a business level. If they do, it leaves opportunity for new companies to swoop in there and replace them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo1185 Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 That's assuming Salmond is in charge after the election presumably ? If we are in NATO it doesn't matter who's in charge. We will be involved in the conflicts we are told to be involved in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo1185 Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 That's assuming Salmond is in charge after the election presumably ? If we are in NATO it doesn't matter who's in charge. We will be involved in the conflicts we are told to be involved in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GhostHunter Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 I odnt believe half these companies will actually go. Scaremongering on a business level. If they do, it leaves opportunity for new companies to swoop in there and replace them. Incorrect with respect to at least one of them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo1185 Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 (edited) Almost into the final week. Glad it's finally coming round! Edited September 10, 2014 by jambo1185 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandt Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 That's assuming Salmond is in charge after the election presumably ? Naturally. In a perfect world it would be great if he wrote it in to the constitution (like free NHS forever) to be banned but wars war and sometimes it has to happen. Also, im not sure how this idea would work with NATO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandt Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Incorrect with respect to at least one of them To at least one company? Sorry, mate just up. Brains a bit rusty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GhostHunter Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 To at least one company? Sorry, mate just up. Brains a bit rusty Yeah - one company.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 14th richest country in the world according to a French news organisation. France sitting in 18th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forrest Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 If we are in NATO it doesn't matter who's in charge. We will be involved in the conflicts we are told to be involved in. They won't be illegal, in that case! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossthejambo Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Go into any pub during an England game and you'll see how a lot of Scots feel about the English. Of course they resent it. It looks to them like we are saying we are better than them, that they are not as good as us and asking if we are too good to be part of the Union. I know you're trolling but wanting the England football team to lose is completely different from disliking the English. I also don't believe that's what's being suggested by people wanting independence, it's nothing to do with us being too good for the United Kingdom, it's to do with Scotland being governed completely by Scotland and being in a better position by doing so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandt Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Yeah - one company.... Cool. As i said though. It leaves new opportunities for new companies to take their place. The toxic RBS is welcome to leave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 http://scotlandstaywithus.wordpress.com/2014/09/02/how-yes-turned-to-no/ 'How Yes turned to No' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 14th richest country in the world according to a French news organisation. France sitting in 18th. Where's the UK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriel Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 (edited) 14th richest country in the world according to a French news organisation. France sitting in 18th. Saw that earlier. Of course, that is probably calculated on current statistics and not taking into account the forthcoming cataclysm. Did they factor in that "all the banks" will be leaving? Edited September 10, 2014 by Gabriel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadKiller Dog Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 From no to yes http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-news/9716-leading-energy-and-defence-figure-switches-to-yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo1185 Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 They won't be illegal, in that case! Agreed, the poster made a broader point about foreign policy and not getting involved in conflicts at all (and possibly having it in the constitution). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandt Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 (edited) From no to yes http://newsnetscotla...switches-to-yes Great read and quite a scoop for the yes camp. "I am not a fan of Alex Salmond, and certainly not of the SNP." "Nine of the top 10 wealthiest countries in the world are small - six smaller than Scotland." Edited September 10, 2014 by Brandt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Where's the UK? 6th just now. But of course propertionally Scotland doesn't get back what it puts in. Without Scotland the rUK would fall to 18th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 6th just now. But of course propertionally Scotland doesn't get back what it puts in. Without Scotland the rUK would fall to 18th. 6th now or 14th post-Yes. Better together mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 6th now or 14th post-Yes. Better together mate If only it were so black and white. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groot Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 (edited) 6th just now. But of course propertionally Scotland doesn't get back what it puts in. Without Scotland the rUK would fall to 18th. The math on that doesn't make sense unless is the French poll based on as we are now before the glory of independence? If it's based on Scotland post independence then surely we'd be near the top if Scotland's massive contribution pushes the UK to 6th? Edit - I apologise missed your last line, I still maintain if Scotland contributes so much surely we'd be higher than 14th Edited September 10, 2014 by MalkyMcFrench Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 The math on that doesn't make sense unless is the French poll based on as we are now before the glory of independence? If it's based on Scotland post independence then surely we'd be near the top if Scotland's massive contribution pushes the UK to 6th? I done a bit googling and the French news are just using figures which the BBC used. The BBCs source was the OECD. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-26614122 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groot Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 I done a bit googling and the French news are just using figures which the BBC used. The BBCs source was the OECD. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-26614122 Cheers, I'm not sure how that really helps us in an independent Scotland though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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