The Rangers soap opera goes on and on.

[B.S.]

I just hope that in the programme of Hearts v the rangers game next season that it doesnt gush rubbish about rangers being the same club back in the top flight. That would be an insult to the thousands of Hearts supporters who saved the club from death. Hearts history is intact and that important fact should not be diminished just to appease that mob.

[niblick1874]

I just hope that in the programme of Hearts v the rangers game next season that it doesnt gush rubbish about rangers being the same club back in the top flight. That would be an insult to the thousands of Hearts supporters who saved the club from death. Hearts history is intact and that important fact should not be diminished just to appease that mob.

abso*******lutely

[songster]

Bryce9a,

 

You mentioned us taking a snipe at Rangers; let me explain why much of the rest of Scottish football dislikes Rangers even more than pre-2012 (leaving aside whether the club is new or not):

 

Point 1: Sectarianism

 

Even though a large number of decent supporters exist in your support, not enough was done before or after 2012 to rid the support of those who use football as a conduit for sectarian hatred. The supporters of a club can push for a club to deal with issues, if enough care sufficiently to be heard. Too many sensible supporters turned a blind eye to the problem and let the people in charge of the club sweep the issue under the carpet. Sectarianism is a stain on Scottish football, it's not all down to Rangers but a significant percentage of the problem emanates from Ibrox.

 

Point 2: A lack of contrition and the continuation of unsustainable spending

 

2012 provided you with an ideal opportunity to admit to previous mistakes, which hurt the whole of Scottish football. Instead, your representatives and fans decided to take a defensive and isolationist stance. An inclusive and apologetic approach would have led to a better reception for post-2012 Rangers. Admitting to previous mistakes did not happen; how do you expect others to forgive you if you cannot admit to being in the wrong. The rest of Scotland can see the damage your spending did; the resultant costs for other clubs - not to mention lost earnings from League and Europe that were due to your unsustainable and, although currently under appeal, illegal spending. From the moment Rangers entered the 4th tier they continued to spend money they could not afford, potentially at the expense of other clubs in the division/Scotland. Arguing that Rangers did nothing wrong is just a smokescreen for the fact that you don't want to admit it, your new owners have played the support like a fiddle - it's very easy to use "nobody likes us" to bring people together - unfortunately this approach has allowed the sectarian issue to remain unresolved.

 

Point 3: A sense of entitlement

 

The rules of the game prior to 2012 were clear, Rangers were not entitled to any place in Scottish football post-liquidation. However, the newly-incorporated Rangers seemed to think they would play in the premier league; an astonishing example of lacking contrition. The truth is that Rangers were lucky to be given (and not even enter a selection process against other teams, which those teams could have legitimately scuppered by legal means) a place in the Scottish league set  up. The 4th tier was an extraordinary gift, not a punishment. Your supporters still say they have "suffered enough" due to this "punishment" - that's grating to hear and every time it is repeated a section of Scottish football turns a little more against your club and support. On top of this, your supporters encouraged the overspending as they seemed to feel that they were entitled to premier-league-level players whilst they played part-time opposition (principally due to cup runs, which your support felt entitled to be competitive in). Ambition is OK, but entitlement is a real turn off - having just dumped tens of millions in debts it's a force beyond reasonable ambition which burns through tens of millions of pounds in the lower two tiers of Scottish football.

 

Point 4: Hostility to everyone else in Scottish football

 

Quite a large percentage of Rangers supporters are actively hostile to other supporters, so much so that it can be easier not to talk about football if you find out someone is a Rangers supporter (without prior knowledge of whether they are reasonable or not). Some people go off the deep end when anything comes up about Rangers that is even slightly different from the narrative which they subscribe to. I've seen far more examples of violence, aggression and arguments since 2012 versus the years prior to that (obviously ignoring the worst years of Old Firm matches when stabbings were a regular occurrence). This hostility is not limited to conversations between supporters, just look at the Rangers/Hearts match when your support disgraced itself; it's built into the rhetoric of your club. The statements put out by Rangers have often been openly hostile, I'm amazed that more has not been done by the authorities (let's not go there). It's all part of the "nobody like us, we don't care" attitude that has been cultivated to a higher degree since 2012. Your club hates the press, other clubs, other supporters and, in fact, anything which helps you foster a greater amount of isolation - your club is the cause of much of the problem so that failings of the board can be covered up. I believe your support has chosen the wrong route, choosing to openly support a divisive board just makes the rest of Scotland sure that you deserve to have people view you with suspicion and contempt.

 

I'm sure there's more that I could bring up, but Rangers missed an opportunity to be a true part of Scottish football. As it stands you seem to be destined to exist in spite of Scottish football. A club that takes the decisions that yours has, choosing to ignore obvious sectarianism issues and actively promote hatred of the rest of Scottish football, deserves to have people "take a snipe" at you. I hope Rangers supporters have the guts and ability to change course to dump sectarianism, be contrite and embrace the Scottish game for the good of all - if you can't do that then I honestly think you don't deserve the chance you were given post-2012. The membership should have been conditional, if that was the case (as your club stands right now) I would not be surprised if you were fighting losing the membership you were gifted.

 

How people view you is mostly down to your own actions, but responsibility is sadly lacking from the culture which currently exists amongst the Rangers support.

[jambovambo]

Boom. Great stuff.

 

Mark my words.

 

There will be (even more than usual) trouble involving The Rangers fans next season ... particularly away.

[Jamdub]

Bryce9a,

 

You mentioned us taking a snipe at Rangers; let me explain why much of the rest of Scottish football dislikes Rangers even more than pre-2012 (leaving aside whether the club is new or not):

 

Point 1: Sectarianism

 

Even though a large number of decent supporters exist in your support, not enough was done before or after 2012 to rid the support of those who use football as a conduit for sectarian hatred. The supporters of a club can push for a club to deal with issues, if enough care sufficiently to be heard. Too many sensible supporters turned a blind eye to the problem and let the people in charge of the club sweep the issue under the carpet. Sectarianism is a stain on Scottish football, it's not all down to Rangers but a significant percentage of the problem emanates from Ibrox.

 

Point 2: A lack of contrition and the continuation of unsustainable spending

 

2012 provided you with an ideal opportunity to admit to previous mistakes, which hurt the whole of Scottish football. Instead, your representatives and fans decided to take a defensive and isolationist stance. An inclusive and apologetic approach would have led to a better reception for post-2012 Rangers. Admitting to previous mistakes did not happen; how do you expect others to forgive you if you cannot admit to being in the wrong. The rest of Scotland can see the damage your spending did; the resultant costs for other clubs - not to mention lost earnings from League and Europe that were due to your unsustainable and, although currently under appeal, illegal spending. From the moment Rangers entered the 4th tier they continued to spend money they could not afford, potentially at the expense of other clubs in the division/Scotland. Arguing that Rangers did nothing wrong is just a smokescreen for the fact that you don't want to admit it, your new owners have played the support like a fiddle - it's very easy to use "nobody likes us" to bring people together - unfortunately this approach has allowed the sectarian issue to remain unresolved.

 

Point 3: A sense of entitlement

 

The rules of the game prior to 2012 were clear, Rangers were not entitled to any place in Scottish football post-liquidation. However, the newly-incorporated Rangers seemed to think they would play in the premier league; an astonishing example of lacking contrition. The truth is that Rangers were lucky to be given (and not even enter a selection process against other teams, which those teams could have legitimately scuppered by legal means) a place in the Scottish league set  up. The 4th tier was an extraordinary gift, not a punishment. Your supporters still say they have "suffered enough" due to this "punishment" - that's grating to hear and every time it is repeated a section of Scottish football turns a little more against your club and support. On top of this, your supporters encouraged the overspending as they seemed to feel that they were entitled to premier-league-level players whilst they played part-time opposition (principally due to cup runs, which your support felt entitled to be competitive in). Ambition is OK, but entitlement is a real turn off - having just dumped tens of millions in debts it's a force beyond reasonable ambition which burns through tens of millions of pounds in the lower two tiers of Scottish football.

 

Point 4: Hostility to everyone else in Scottish football

 

Quite a large percentage of Rangers supporters are actively hostile to other supporters, so much so that it can be easier not to talk about football if you find out someone is a Rangers supporter (without prior knowledge of whether they are reasonable or not). Some people go off the deep end when anything comes up about Rangers that is even slightly different from the narrative which they subscribe to. I've seen far more examples of violence, aggression and arguments since 2012 versus the years prior to that (obviously ignoring the worst years of Old Firm matches when stabbings were a regular occurrence). This hostility is not limited to conversations between supporters, just look at the Rangers/Hearts match when your support disgraced itself; it's built into the rhetoric of your club. The statements put out by Rangers have often been openly hostile, I'm amazed that more has not been done by the authorities (let's not go there). It's all part of the "nobody like us, we don't care" attitude that has been cultivated to a higher degree since 2012. Your club hates the press, other clubs, other supporters and, in fact, anything which helps you foster a greater amount of isolation - your club is the cause of much of the problem so that failings of the board can be covered up. I believe your support has chosen the wrong route, choosing to openly support a divisive board just makes the rest of Scotland sure that you deserve to have people view you with suspicion and contempt.

 

I'm sure there's more that I could bring up, but Rangers missed an opportunity to be a true part of Scottish football. As it stands you seem to be destined to exist in spite of Scottish football. A club that takes the decisions that yours has, choosing to ignore obvious sectarianism issues and actively promote hatred of the rest of Scottish football, deserves to have people "take a snipe" at you. I hope Rangers supporters have the guts and ability to change course to dump sectarianism, be contrite and embrace the Scottish game for the good of all - if you can't do that then I honestly think you don't deserve the chance you were given post-2012. The membership should have been conditional, if that was the case (as your club stands right now) I would not be surprised if you were fighting losing the membership you were gifted.

 

How people view you is mostly down to your own actions, but responsibility is sadly lacking from the culture which currently exists amongst the Rangers support.

 

But not something our knuckle dragging troll would ever acknowledge.

 

Next season will be a treat having these scumbags even worse than usual with their sectarian songbook polluting our beautiful city and ground. 

[Mikey1874]

Bryce knows all this already, but just to repeat what I posted ages ago, Hearts reconstruction was carried out under S161 of the 1862 Companies Act.

 

 

The process is set out as above. So what did Hearts do?

 

 

 

So Hearts followed the designated process as set out in the Companies Act, voluntary liquidation of the oldco, appointed liquidators, raised funds from the Newco, transferred assets and liabilities from the oldco to the newco, ensured that the shareholders of the oldco did not lose out, and (Bryce please note, because any comparison with TRFC Ltd ends here) paid ALL creditors in full.

 

Bryce's "historian" source is also incorrect in terms of Hearts indebtedness, when he say it was over ?2000. The debts were ?1400, increasing to ?1600 by the time the process was completed. The source of this information is Hearts themselves.

 

 

 

 

When Bryce first posted the "liquidation" notice on JKB he deliberately chose not to include resolution 3 in his posted image. Why? Because it showed how Hearts achieved its reconstruction under section 161 of the Companies Act. That would not fit in with his narrative of course, so he resorts to trolling us once again.

 

Until such time as TRFC pays off ALL the oldco's creditors in full, including HMRC, then there is no comparison to be had between the situations.

 

So I would urge Bryce to crawl back beneath the rock from whence he came and I'd request that the mods finally ban him for trolling.

Cool

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

Boom. Great stuff.

 

Mark my words.

 

There will be (even more than usual) trouble involving The Rangers fans next season ... particularly away.

Yup. It'll be horrible. But we need it though you know.

[jambovambo]

Yup. It'll be horrible. But we need it though you know.

Else, Armageddon, innit?

[fila]

Boom. Great stuff.

 

Mark my words.

 

There will be (even more than usual) trouble involving The Rangers fans next season ... particularly away.

 

Normal service will be resumed for sure! Only blessing will be a continued reduced allocation for both the OF clubs , particularly if the old stand is demolished . 

[Footballfirst]

The Daily Record has finally caught up on what was discussed on here following the budget.

 

[The Future's Maroon]

I just hope that in the programme of Hearts v the rangers game next season that it doesnt gush rubbish about rangers being the same club back in the top flight. That would be an insult to the thousands of Hearts supporters who saved the club from death. Hearts history is intact and that important fact should not be diminished just to appease that mob.

 

I have no words to agree, I was going to say one million percent correct...but its not enough!

 

The Daily Record has finally caught up on what was discussed on here following the budget.

 

 

Ooooft, a few cages about to be rattled about that....will Sevco fans be targeting Mr McGivern now?

[tcjambo]

I said it before the players will end up suing their agents for poor advice given in accepting these arrangements. I wonder if recent bankruptcies with well known agents could relate to concerns that this is about to happen.

[Diadora Van Basten]

It's funny to see the Daily Record spin on the story.

 

As a Socialist paper you would expect it to be along the line of HMRC calls time on Tax dodgers. But because it's their beloved Rangers it's a tax grab against poor old Barry.

[bryce9a]

Bryce9a,

 

You mentioned us taking a snipe at Rangers; let me explain why much of the rest of Scottish football dislikes Rangers even more than pre-2012 (leaving aside whether the club is new or not):

 

Point 1: Sectarianism

 

Even though a large number of decent supporters exist in your support, not enough was done before or after 2012 to rid the support of those who use football as a conduit for sectarian hatred. The supporters of a club can push for a club to deal with issues, if enough care sufficiently to be heard. Too many sensible supporters turned a blind eye to the problem and let the people in charge of the club sweep the issue under the carpet. Sectarianism is a stain on Scottish football, it's not all down to Rangers but a significant percentage of the problem emanates from Ibrox.

 

Point 2: A lack of contrition and the continuation of unsustainable spending

 

2012 provided you with an ideal opportunity to admit to previous mistakes, which hurt the whole of Scottish football. Instead, your representatives and fans decided to take a defensive and isolationist stance. An inclusive and apologetic approach would have led to a better reception for post-2012 Rangers. Admitting to previous mistakes did not happen; how do you expect others to forgive you if you cannot admit to being in the wrong. The rest of Scotland can see the damage your spending did; the resultant costs for other clubs - not to mention lost earnings from League and Europe that were due to your unsustainable and, although currently under appeal, illegal spending. From the moment Rangers entered the 4th tier they continued to spend money they could not afford, potentially at the expense of other clubs in the division/Scotland. Arguing that Rangers did nothing wrong is just a smokescreen for the fact that you don't want to admit it, your new owners have played the support like a fiddle - it's very easy to use "nobody likes us" to bring people together - unfortunately this approach has allowed the sectarian issue to remain unresolved.

 

Point 3: A sense of entitlement

 

The rules of the game prior to 2012 were clear, Rangers were not entitled to any place in Scottish football post-liquidation. However, the newly-incorporated Rangers seemed to think they would play in the premier league; an astonishing example of lacking contrition. The truth is that Rangers were lucky to be given (and not even enter a selection process against other teams, which those teams could have legitimately scuppered by legal means) a place in the Scottish league set  up. The 4th tier was an extraordinary gift, not a punishment. Your supporters still say they have "suffered enough" due to this "punishment" - that's grating to hear and every time it is repeated a section of Scottish football turns a little more against your club and support. On top of this, your supporters encouraged the overspending as they seemed to feel that they were entitled to premier-league-level players whilst they played part-time opposition (principally due to cup runs, which your support felt entitled to be competitive in). Ambition is OK, but entitlement is a real turn off - having just dumped tens of millions in debts it's a force beyond reasonable ambition which burns through tens of millions of pounds in the lower two tiers of Scottish football.

 

Point 4: Hostility to everyone else in Scottish football

 

Quite a large percentage of Rangers supporters are actively hostile to other supporters, so much so that it can be easier not to talk about football if you find out someone is a Rangers supporter (without prior knowledge of whether they are reasonable or not). Some people go off the deep end when anything comes up about Rangers that is even slightly different from the narrative which they subscribe to. I've seen far more examples of violence, aggression and arguments since 2012 versus the years prior to that (obviously ignoring the worst years of Old Firm matches when stabbings were a regular occurrence). This hostility is not limited to conversations between supporters, just look at the Rangers/Hearts match when your support disgraced itself; it's built into the rhetoric of your club. The statements put out by Rangers have often been openly hostile, I'm amazed that more has not been done by the authorities (let's not go there). It's all part of the "nobody like us, we don't care" attitude that has been cultivated to a higher degree since 2012. Your club hates the press, other clubs, other supporters and, in fact, anything which helps you foster a greater amount of isolation - your club is the cause of much of the problem so that failings of the board can be covered up. I believe your support has chosen the wrong route, choosing to openly support a divisive board just makes the rest of Scotland sure that you deserve to have people view you with suspicion and contempt.

 

I'm sure there's more that I could bring up, but Rangers missed an opportunity to be a true part of Scottish football. As it stands you seem to be destined to exist in spite of Scottish football. A club that takes the decisions that yours has, choosing to ignore obvious sectarianism issues and actively promote hatred of the rest of Scottish football, deserves to have people "take a snipe" at you. I hope Rangers supporters have the guts and ability to change course to dump sectarianism, be contrite and embrace the Scottish game for the good of all - if you can't do that then I honestly think you don't deserve the chance you were given post-2012. The membership should have been conditional, if that was the case (as your club stands right now) I would not be surprised if you were fighting losing the membership you were gifted.

 

How people view you is mostly down to your own actions, but responsibility is sadly lacking from the culture which currently exists amongst the Rangers support.

 

Wow. As anti-Rangers rants go, that was some effort! If you were going for a 1000 word limit by the way, you missed it by one  

 

With regards to a lack of contrition etc, I suggest you look up the word in a dictionary. "Sincere and complete remorse for sins one has committed." The reckless mismanagement of David Murray, the dodgy exploits of whyte, green etc are the responsibility of those individuals - to extend blame to the wider Rangers support, the men, women and children who follow their team every week, is absurd to the extent as to suggest a more sinister motive. Looking back at what could have been done in terms of scrutiny is one thing, but attempting to blame ordinary supporters who have lost out most of all is quite pathetic.

 

The stuff about being "lucky to be given" a berth in the 4th tier is more utter garbage. Despite the tabloid nonsense thrown around at the time, only a complete idiot would have thought that Rangers - in whatever corporate guise - would not survive into season 2012-13. This was a club/business with 46'500 regular "customers" in season 2011-12, that employed 100s of staff, one of the biggest football clubs in Europe. Rival fans drunk on schadenfreude aside, no sane individual would have for a second contemplated terminating that giant enterprise in favour of a pub team from the amateur backwaters of the game. You cannot seriously be stupid enough to have expected that at the time, or wonder now why it didn't happen? 

 

It terms of your nonsense about Gers not being "entitled to any place in Scottish football post-liquidation", where do I start. First of all, Oldco was not placed into liquidation until the 31st October - equating the rejection of a CVA with the commencement of liquidation is pure tabloid pish. The business sold on the 14th June never locked its doors, it never ceased operating: Rangers never resigned - or had terminated - it's entitlement as an SFA/SPL member until after the 5WA was signed and sealed. Therefore, like any other member, Gers had EVERY right to apply for the transfers of membership & share as occurred.

 

And so we come to your whine about "hostility" to rival clubs. These rival clubs which sent - entirely through the power afforded to them, quite legitimately, to vote on the matter - our club to the fourth tier of Scottish football. These rival clubs who revelled in our troubles and gulped down lies about our status, now entirely jettisoned by the authorities and media. Were they entitled to do so? Of course. We'd beaten them for decades, and were exposed - it's no wonder the pack of dogs set upon us, so to speak. Does this sound like a background to peace and love between Rangers fans and our rivals? Or a series of events bound to entrench the natural animosity that arises between a dominant club and it's rivals in sporting competition. It's the latter clearly, and I for one am not complaining.

 

Football thrives on rivalry, and the fact we're the biggest/second biggest rivals of practically all the top 20 clubs in Scotland, is something I relish The fawning back-slappery/arse-kissing between fans of provincial clubs and celtic, with regards to Rangers, makes my skin crawl. "No one likes us we dont care" needs a stronger chin when you're vulnerable, as we were, and we've come back from that onslaught. The success now when it comes I guarantee will be all the sweeter. An improved team, a thriving support, and all set to gate-crash the love-in with revenge the order of the day. Tick tock. I can't wait

[Glamorgan Jambo]

Funnily enough Bryce has dodged the point about solvent reconstruction .... again...

[Mysterion]

Funnily enough Bryce has dodged the point about solvent reconstruction .... again...

Surely not!

[DETTY29]

Cry me a river.

Edited March 31, 2016 by DETTY29

[Unknown user]

 

Everyone thinks rangers are wankers = "fawning back-slappery/arse-kissing between fans of provincial clubs and celtic, with regards to Rangers"

 

It's the only way they can make sense of all this - "if they hate us they MUST love celtic!"

 

As for your "Did you honestly expect rangers to have to be punished fully? Don't you know who we are?" argument...

 

Away and ride yourself like the one trick diversion pony you are bryce - you won for decades through cheating, let's not pretend rangers are being unjustly punished for something they never did!

 

Anyway, you let your club die

[bryce9a]

Funnily enough Bryce has dodged the point about solvent reconstruction .... again...

 

I've not disputed the narrative of the 1905 liquidation FF offered. Why would I when it's an irrelevant point, moot to anything I've put forward.

 

"Solvent reconstruction" is just lipstick on the pig that is liquidation - the company still dies!  So the doting son paid his father's debts to the penny after the old sod was packed off to dignitas, "voluntarily", it doesn't alter the terminal destination of the patient. 

 

I forced FootballFirst into conceding the club = company point in the course of his, essentially, agreeing with me:

 

The (solvent, voluntary, whatever) liquidation of Heart of Midlothian Football Club Limited in 1905 happened, but it did not spell the end of the 1874-formed football club which, by necessity, was a distinct entity. Amen to that. I just hope his pals on TSFM didn't notice such sacrilege

Edited March 31, 2016 by bryce9a

[corryjambo]

Wow. As anti-Rangers rants go, that was some effort! If you were going for a 1000 word limit by the way, you missed it by one

 

With regards to a lack of contrition etc, I suggest you look up the word in a dictionary. "Sincere and complete remorse for sins one has committed." The reckless mismanagement of David Murray, the dodgy exploits of whyte, green etc are the responsibility of those individuals - to extend blame to the wider Rangers support, the men, women and children who follow their team every week, is absurd to the extent as to suggest a more sinister motive. Looking back at what could have been done in terms of scrutiny is one thing, but attempting to blame ordinary supporters who have lost out most of all is quite pathetic.

 

The stuff about being "lucky to be given" a berth in the 4th tier is more utter garbage. Despite the tabloid nonsense thrown around at the time, only a complete idiot would have thought that Rangers - in whatever corporate guise - would not survive into season 2012-13. This was a club/business with 46'500 regular "customers" in season 2011-12, that employed 100s of staff, one of the biggest football clubs in Europe. Rival fans drunk on schadenfreude aside, no sane individual would have for a second contemplated terminating that giant enterprise in favour of a pub team from the amateur backwaters of the game. You cannot seriously be stupid enough to have expected that at the time, or wonder now why it didn't happen? 

 

It terms of your nonsense about Gers not being "entitled to any place in Scottish football post-liquidation", where do I start. First of all, Oldco was not placed into liquidation until the 31st October - equating the rejection of a CVA with the commencement of liquidation is pure tabloid pish. The business sold on the 14th June never locked its doors, it never ceased operating: Rangers never resigned - or had terminated - it's entitlement as an SFA/SPL member until after the 5WA was signed and sealed. Therefore, like any other member, Gers had EVERY right to apply for the transfers of membership & share as occurred.

 

And so we come to your whine about "hostility" to rival clubs. These rival clubs which sent - entirely through the power afforded to them, quite legitimately, to vote on the matter - our club to the fourth tier of Scottish football. These rival clubs who revelled in our troubles and gulped down lies about our status, now entirely jettisoned by the authorities and media. Were they entitled to do so? Of course. We'd beaten them for decades, and were exposed - it's no wonder the pack of dogs set upon us, so to speak. Does this sound like a background to peace and love between Rangers fans and our rivals? Or a series of events bound to entrench the natural animosity that arises between a dominant club and it's rivals in sporting competition. It's the latter clearly, and I for one am not complaining.

 

Football thrives on rivalry, and the fact we're the biggest/second biggest rivals of practically all the top 20 clubs in Scotland, is something I relish The fawning back-slappery/arse-kissing between fans of provincial clubs and celtic, with regards to Rangers, makes my skin crawl. "No one likes us we dont care" needs a stronger chin when you're vulnerable, as we were, and we've come back from that onslaught. The success now when it comes I guarantee will be all the sweeter. An improved team, a thriving support, and all set to gate-crash the love-in with revenge the order of the day. Tick tock. I can't wait

 

And there in a nutshell is exactly why the rest of Scottish football has no time for your team or the majority of its supporters.

 

What arrogance to suggest that Spartans, one of the teams denied a space in the league are a pub team. They are a community club based in Edinburgh that have probably done more for youth football in their fairly short lives than you or your previous lot have done in your history.

 

It really is time that you were launched from this board.

[XB52]

Yet again our resident pet hun comes on and totally ignores facts and just rants about the huns being pure big and important and having hunners of titles. You died, end of story. 

[XB52]

And there in a nutshell is exactly why the rest of Scottish football has no time for your team or the majority of its supporters.

 

What arrogance to suggest that Spartans, one of the teams denied a space in the league are a pub team. They are a community club based in Edinburgh that have probably done more for youth football in their fairly short lives than you or your previous lot have done in your history.

 

It really is time that you were launched from this board.

100% agree, time for him to be given the boot so he can go back to follow follow and talk to more dafties that might actually agree with a word he says 

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

Wow. As anti-Rangers rants go, that was some effort! If you were going for a 1000 word limit by the way, you missed it by one

 

With regards to a lack of contrition etc, I suggest you look up the word in a dictionary. "Sincere and complete remorse for sins one has committed." The reckless mismanagement of David Murray, the dodgy exploits of whyte, green etc are the responsibility of those individuals - to extend blame to the wider Rangers support, the men, women and children who follow their team every week, is absurd to the extent as to suggest a more sinister motive. Looking back at what could have been done in terms of scrutiny is one thing, but attempting to blame ordinary supporters who have lost out most of all is quite pathetic.

 

The stuff about being "lucky to be given" a berth in the 4th tier is more utter garbage. Despite the tabloid nonsense thrown around at the time, only a complete idiot would have thought that Rangers - in whatever corporate guise - would not survive into season 2012-13. This was a club/business with 46'500 regular "customers" in season 2011-12, that employed 100s of staff, one of the biggest football clubs in Europe. Rival fans drunk on schadenfreude aside, no sane individual would have for a second contemplated terminating that giant enterprise in favour of a pub team from the amateur backwaters of the game. You cannot seriously be stupid enough to have expected that at the time, or wonder now why it didn't happen?

 

It terms of your nonsense about Gers not being "entitled to any place in Scottish football post-liquidation", where do I start. First of all, Oldco was not placed into liquidation until the 31st October - equating the rejection of a CVA with the commencement of liquidation is pure tabloid pish. The business sold on the 14th June never locked its doors, it never ceased operating: Rangers never resigned - or had terminated - it's entitlement as an SFA/SPL member until after the 5WA was signed and sealed. Therefore, like any other member, Gers had EVERY right to apply for the transfers of membership & share as occurred.

 

And so we come to your whine about "hostility" to rival clubs. These rival clubs which sent - entirely through the power afforded to them, quite legitimately, to vote on the matter - our club to the fourth tier of Scottish football. These rival clubs who revelled in our troubles and gulped down lies about our status, now entirely jettisoned by the authorities and media. Were they entitled to do so? Of course. We'd beaten them for decades, and were exposed - it's no wonder the pack of dogs set upon us, so to speak. Does this sound like a background to peace and love between Rangers fans and our rivals? Or a series of events bound to entrench the natural animosity that arises between a dominant club and it's rivals in sporting competition. It's the latter clearly, and I for one am not complaining.

 

Football thrives on rivalry, and the fact we're the biggest/second biggest rivals of practically all the top 20 clubs in Scotland, is something I relish The fawning back-slappery/arse-kissing between fans of provincial clubs and celtic, with regards to Rangers, makes my skin crawl. "No one likes us we dont care" needs a stronger chin when you're vulnerable, as we were, and we've come back from that onslaught. The success now when it comes I guarantee will be all the sweeter. An improved team, a thriving support, and all set to gate-crash the love-in with revenge the order of the day. Tick tock. I can't wait

Pish.

[Brandt]

100% agree, time for him to be given the boot so he can go back to follow follow and talk to more dafties that might actually agree with a word he says

Shouldnt boot him. Regardless of his opinion its good to have fans of other teams on here.

[SUTOL]

The fawning back-slappery/arse-kissing between fans of provincial clubs and celtic, 

 

Celtic are a provincial club. 

[kingdannyb]

I expect to see a few former EBTers decide that their future bankruptcies are more important than helping to hide the blatant financial cheating of DeadRangers.

Which one will be the first to reveal that everyone at the club knew it was dishonest ?

Maybe titles WILL be stripped !

[jambali]

Wow. As anti-Rangers rants go, that was some effort! If you were going for a 1000 word limit by the way, you missed it by one

 

With regards to a lack of contrition etc, I suggest you look up the word in a dictionary. "Sincere and complete remorse for sins one has committed." The reckless mismanagement of David Murray, the dodgy exploits of whyte, green etc are the responsibility of those individuals - to extend blame to the wider Rangers support, the men, women and children who follow their team every week, is absurd to the extent as to suggest a more sinister motive. Did they do anything about it? -no! So they were complicit.  Looking back at what could have been done in terms of scrutiny is one thing, but attempting to blame ordinary supporters who have lost out most of all is quite pathetic.

 

The stuff about being "lucky to be given" a berth in the 4th tier is more utter garbage. Despite the tabloid nonsense thrown around at the time, only a complete idiot would have thought that Rangers - in whatever corporate guise - would not survive into season 2012-13. This was a club/business with 46'500 regular "customers" in season 2011-12, that employed 100s of staff, one of the biggest football clubs in Europe. Rival fans drunk on schadenfreude aside, no sane individual would have for a second contemplated terminating that giant enterprise Translation - We're big so the rules don't apply to us. in favour of a pub team from the amateur backwaters of the game. You cannot seriously be stupid enough to have expected that at the time, or wonder now why it didn't happen? Sporting integrity should take precedence over commercialism, but this is Scotland and football will NEVER be run sportingly or even fairly.

 

It terms of your nonsense about Gers not being "entitled to any place in Scottish football post-liquidation", where do I start. First of all, Oldco was not placed into liquidation until the 31st October - equating the rejection of a CVA with the commencement of liquidation is pure tabloid pish. The business sold on the 14th June never locked its doors, it never ceased operating: Rangers never resigned - or had terminated - it's entitlement as an SFA/SPL member until after the 5WA was signed and sealed. Therefore, like any other member, Gers had EVERY right to apply for the transfers of membership & share as occurred. The Rangers had every right to a place in Scottish football - the issue is that it should not have been the one they got as a result of an underhand agreement.

 

And so we come to your whine about "hostility" to rival clubs. These rival clubs which sent - entirely through the power afforded to them, quite legitimately, to vote on the matter - our club to the fourth tier of Scottish football. No! What don't you understand about being allowed back in? The issue being the "allowed back in" bit was not conducted fairly. These rival clubs who revelled in our troubles and gulped down lies about our status, now entirely jettisoned by the authorities and media. Were they entitled to do so? Of course. We'd beaten them for decades, Unfairly! Another point you don't attempt to understand. and were exposed - it's no wonder the pack of dogs set upon us, so to speak. Does this sound like a background to peace and love between Rangers fans and our rivals? Or a series of events bound to entrench the natural animosity that arises between a dominant club by unfair means.  and it's rivals in sporting sporting? Erm? competition. It's the latter clearly, and I for one am not complaining.

 

Football thrives on rivalry, and the fact we're the biggest/second biggest rivals of practically all the top 20 clubs in Scotland, is something I relish The fawning back-slappery/arse-kissing between fans of provincial clubs and celtic, with regards to Rangers, makes my skin crawl. "No one likes us we dont care" needs a stronger chin when you're vulnerable, as we were, and we've come back from that onslaught. The success now when it comes I guarantee will be all the sweeter. An improved team, a thriving support, and all set to gate-crash the love-in with revenge the order of the day. Tick tock. I can't wait

Did I miss anything?

[Glamorgan Jambo]

I've not disputed the narrative of the 1905 liquidation FF offered. Why would I when it's an irrelevant point, moot to anything I've put forward.

 

"Solvent reconstruction" is just lipstick on the pig that is liquidation - the company still dies!  So the doting son paid his father's debts to the penny after the old sod was packed off to dignitas, "voluntarily", it doesn't alter the terminal destination of the patient. 

 

I forced FootballFirst into conceding the club = company point in the course of his, essentially, agreeing with me:

 

The (solvent, voluntary, whatever) liquidation of Heart of Midlothian Football Club Limited in 1905 happened, but it did not spell the end of the 1874-formed football club which, by necessity, was a distinct entity. Amen to that. I just hope his pals on TSFM didn't notice such sacrilege

 

Sorry you didn't address the point at all. You are allowed to solvently reconstruct an incorporated club according to current football regulations. RFC fans endlessly bang on about 'Pacific Shelf' when CFC were bought by McCann... this was another example of a solvent reconstruction as was HMFC in 1905.

 

There was no 'solvent reconstruction' of RFC. A basket of assets was sold by the administrator i.e. the process followed was akin to a 'pre pack' administration.

 

The new entity were invited to apply for membership subject to approval by the existing clubs.

 

Any evidence of an ethereal concept such as a 'club' being mysteriously part of the transaction is lacking. The concept of the football authorities having the capacity to bestow attribution of a 'club' to whoever they choose is absurd and ridiculous.

 

There's a different thread about the status of the club you support so please take further discussion of this point there.

 

Thanks

[jambovambo]

Rangers Supporters Trust v Dundee Courier (Jim Spence, in reality).

 

Get in

 

https://www.ipso.co.uk/IPSO/rulings/IPSOrulings-detail.html?id=320

 

"6.The newspaper denied that it was inaccurate to use the word ?illegal? to describe the use of EBTs by Rangers in circumstances where their use, in a manner designed to minimise tax liability, was found to be contrary to, or forbidden by, law. It said that the Court of Session had found that the true nature of the payments into EBTs had been misrepresented to the authorities in order to avoid having to deduct tax and remit it to the HMRC, with the net effect being to enhance players? earnings. It said that in such circumstances it was not inaccurate to say that Rangers had been acting illegally."

 

..and other points.

[Don Dan]

Bryce needs to take note of how the Tax man will go after the EBT tax dodgers and reclaim wages that were supposed to be taxed. These days nobody walks away be from the Tax Man or the Courts when it comes to ill gotten gains. If there's been dodgy dealing in the sale of Rangers to Sevco then the Courts will take back or demand true market value payment from the Rangers International.

[Don Dan]

Wow. As anti-Rangers rants go, that was some effort! If you were going for a 1000 word limit by the way, you missed it by one  

 

With regards to a lack of contrition etc, I suggest you look up the word in a dictionary. "Sincere and complete remorse for sins one has committed." The reckless mismanagement of David Murray, the dodgy exploits of whyte, green etc are the responsibility of those individuals - to extend blame to the wider Rangers support, the men, women and children who follow their team every week, is absurd to the extent as to suggest a more sinister motive. Looking back at what could have been done in terms of scrutiny is one thing, but attempting to blame ordinary supporters who have lost out most of all is quite pathetic.

 

The stuff about being "lucky to be given" a berth in the 4th tier is more utter garbage. Despite the tabloid nonsense thrown around at the time, only a complete idiot would have thought that Rangers - in whatever corporate guise - would not survive into season 2012-13. This was a club/business with 46'500 regular "customers" in season 2011-12, that employed 100s of staff, one of the biggest football clubs in Europe. Rival fans drunk on schadenfreude aside, no sane individual would have for a second contemplated terminating that giant enterprise in favour of a pub team from the amateur backwaters of the game. You cannot seriously be stupid enough to have expected that at the time, or wonder now why it didn't happen? 

 

It terms of your nonsense about Gers not being "entitled to any place in Scottish football post-liquidation", where do I start. First of all, Oldco was not placed into liquidation until the 31st October - equating the rejection of a CVA with the commencement of liquidation is pure tabloid pish. The business sold on the 14th June never locked its doors, it never ceased operating: Rangers never resigned - or had terminated - it's entitlement as an SFA/SPL member until after the 5WA was signed and sealed. Therefore, like any other member, Gers had EVERY right to apply for the transfers of membership & share as occurred.

 

And so we come to your whine about "hostility" to rival clubs. These rival clubs which sent - entirely through the power afforded to them, quite legitimately, to vote on the matter - our club to the fourth tier of Scottish football. These rival clubs who revelled in our troubles and gulped down lies about our status, now entirely jettisoned by the authorities and media. Were they entitled to do so? Of course. We'd beaten them for decades, and were exposed - it's no wonder the pack of dogs set upon us, so to speak. Does this sound like a background to peace and love between Rangers fans and our rivals? Or a series of events bound to entrench the natural animosity that arises between a dominant club and it's rivals in sporting competition. It's the latter clearly, and I for one am not complaining.

 

Football thrives on rivalry, and the fact we're the biggest/second biggest rivals of practically all the top 20 clubs in Scotland, is something I relish The fawning back-slappery/arse-kissing between fans of provincial clubs and celtic, with regards to Rangers, makes my skin crawl. "No one likes us we dont care" needs a stronger chin when you're vulnerable, as we were, and we've come back from that onslaught. The success now when it comes I guarantee will be all the sweeter. An improved team, a thriving support, and all set to gate-crash the love-in with revenge the order of the day. Tick tock. I can't wait

 

Bryce your last paragraph is one of the main reasons most (make that all) other clubs/fans hate Rangers. You and yours show no contrition or humbleness. Youre so far up your own erse it's embarrassing to Scottish football.

 

I'll concur with other posters that you have no understanding of insolvency, administration and liquidation and you manipulate the facts to fit your warped narrative.

[Spitonastranger]

I've not disputed the narrative of the 1905 liquidation FF offered. Why would I when it's an irrelevant point, moot to anything I've put forward.

 

"Solvent reconstruction" is just lipstick on the pig that is liquidation - the company still dies!  So the doting son paid his father's debts to the penny after the old sod was packed off to dignitas, "voluntarily", it doesn't alter the terminal destination of the patient. 

 

I forced FootballFirst into conceding the club = company point in the course of his, essentially, agreeing with me:

 

The (solvent, voluntary, whatever) liquidation of Heart of Midlothian Football Club Limited in 1905 happened, but it did not spell the end of the 1874-formed football club which, by necessity, was a distinct entity. Amen to that. I just hope his pals on TSFM didn't notice such sacrilege

You let your club die and do not answer the sectarianism question

[graham]

.

[The Gasman]

Bryce9a,

 

You mentioned us taking a snipe at Rangers; let me explain why much of the rest of Scottish football dislikes Rangers even more than pre-2012 (leaving aside whether the club is new or not):

 

Point 1: Sectarianism

 

Even though a large number of decent supporters exist in your support, not enough was done before or after 2012 to rid the support of those who use football as a conduit for sectarian hatred. The supporters of a club can push for a club to deal with issues, if enough care sufficiently to be heard. Too many sensible supporters turned a blind eye to the problem and let the people in charge of the club sweep the issue under the carpet. Sectarianism is a stain on Scottish football, it's not all down to Rangers but a significant percentage of the problem emanates from Ibrox.

 

Point 2: A lack of contrition and the continuation of unsustainable spending

 

2012 provided you with an ideal opportunity to admit to previous mistakes, which hurt the whole of Scottish football. Instead, your representatives and fans decided to take a defensive and isolationist stance. An inclusive and apologetic approach would have led to a better reception for post-2012 Rangers. Admitting to previous mistakes did not happen; how do you expect others to forgive you if you cannot admit to being in the wrong. The rest of Scotland can see the damage your spending did; the resultant costs for other clubs - not to mention lost earnings from League and Europe that were due to your unsustainable and, although currently under appeal, illegal spending. From the moment Rangers entered the 4th tier they continued to spend money they could not afford, potentially at the expense of other clubs in the division/Scotland. Arguing that Rangers did nothing wrong is just a smokescreen for the fact that you don't want to admit it, your new owners have played the support like a fiddle - it's very easy to use "nobody likes us" to bring people together - unfortunately this approach has allowed the sectarian issue to remain unresolved.

 

Point 3: A sense of entitlement

 

The rules of the game prior to 2012 were clear, Rangers were not entitled to any place in Scottish football post-liquidation. However, the newly-incorporated Rangers seemed to think they would play in the premier league; an astonishing example of lacking contrition. The truth is that Rangers were lucky to be given (and not even enter a selection process against other teams, which those teams could have legitimately scuppered by legal means) a place in the Scottish league set up. The 4th tier was an extraordinary gift, not a punishment. Your supporters still say they have "suffered enough" due to this "punishment" - that's grating to hear and every time it is repeated a section of Scottish football turns a little more against your club and support. On top of this, your supporters encouraged the overspending as they seemed to feel that they were entitled to premier-league-level players whilst they played part-time opposition (principally due to cup runs, which your support felt entitled to be competitive in). Ambition is OK, but entitlement is a real turn off - having just dumped tens of millions in debts it's a force beyond reasonable ambition which burns through tens of millions of pounds in the lower two tiers of Scottish football.

 

Point 4: Hostility to everyone else in Scottish football

 

Quite a large percentage of Rangers supporters are actively hostile to other supporters, so much so that it can be easier not to talk about football if you find out someone is a Rangers supporter (without prior knowledge of whether they are reasonable or not). Some people go off the deep end when anything comes up about Rangers that is even slightly different from the narrative which they subscribe to. I've seen far more examples of violence, aggression and arguments since 2012 versus the years prior to that (obviously ignoring the worst years of Old Firm matches when stabbings were a regular occurrence). This hostility is not limited to conversations between supporters, just look at the Rangers/Hearts match when your support disgraced itself; it's built into the rhetoric of your club. The statements put out by Rangers have often been openly hostile, I'm amazed that more has not been done by the authorities (let's not go there). It's all part of the "nobody like us, we don't care" attitude that has been cultivated to a higher degree since 2012. Your club hates the press, other clubs, other supporters and, in fact, anything which helps you foster a greater amount of isolation - your club is the cause of much of the problem so that failings of the board can be covered up. I believe your support has chosen the wrong route, choosing to openly support a divisive board just makes the rest of Scotland sure that you deserve to have people view you with suspicion and contempt.

 

I'm sure there's more that I could bring up, but Rangers missed an opportunity to be a true part of Scottish football. As it stands you seem to be destined to exist in spite of Scottish football. A club that takes the decisions that yours has, choosing to ignore obvious sectarianism issues and actively promote hatred of the rest of Scottish football, deserves to have people "take a snipe" at you. I hope Rangers supporters have the guts and ability to change course to dump sectarianism, be contrite and embrace the Scottish game for the good of all - if you can't do that then I honestly think you don't deserve the chance you were given post-2012. The membership should have been conditional, if that was the case (as your club stands right now) I would not be surprised if you were fighting losing the membership you were gifted.

 

How people view you is mostly down to your own actions, but responsibility is sadly lacking from the culture which currently exists amongst the Rangers support.

[The Gasman]

Wow. As anti-Rangers rants go, that was some effort! If you were going for a 1000 word limit by the way, you missed it by one

 

With regards to a lack of contrition etc, I suggest you look up the word in a dictionary. "Sincere and complete remorse for sins one has committed." The reckless mismanagement of David Murray, the dodgy exploits of whyte, green etc are the responsibility of those individuals - to extend blame to the wider Rangers support, the men, women and children who follow their team every week, is absurd to the extent as to suggest a more sinister motive. Looking back at what could have been done in terms of scrutiny is one thing, but attempting to blame ordinary supporters who have lost out most of all is quite pathetic.

 

The stuff about being "lucky to be given" a berth in the 4th tier is more utter garbage. Despite the tabloid nonsense thrown around at the time, only a complete idiot would have thought that Rangers - in whatever corporate guise - would not survive into season 2012-13. This was a club/business with 46'500 regular "customers" in season 2011-12, that employed 100s of staff, one of the biggest football clubs in Europe. Rival fans drunk on schadenfreude aside, no sane individual would have for a second contemplated terminating that giant enterprise in favour of a pub team from the amateur backwaters of the game. You cannot seriously be stupid enough to have expected that at the time, or wonder now why it didn't happen?

 

It terms of your nonsense about Gers not being "entitled to any place in Scottish football post-liquidation", where do I start. First of all, Oldco was not placed into liquidation until the 31st October - equating the rejection of a CVA with the commencement of liquidation is pure tabloid pish. The business sold on the 14th June never locked its doors, it never ceased operating: Rangers never resigned - or had terminated - it's entitlement as an SFA/SPL member until after the 5WA was signed and sealed. Therefore, like any other member, Gers had EVERY right to apply for the transfers of membership & share as occurred.

 

And so we come to your whine about "hostility" to rival clubs. These rival clubs which sent - entirely through the power afforded to them, quite legitimately, to vote on the matter - our club to the fourth tier of Scottish football. These rival clubs who revelled in our troubles and gulped down lies about our status, now entirely jettisoned by the authorities and media. Were they entitled to do so? Of course. We'd beaten them for decades, and were exposed - it's no wonder the pack of dogs set upon us, so to speak. Does this sound like a background to peace and love between Rangers fans and our rivals? Or a series of events bound to entrench the natural animosity that arises between a dominant club and it's rivals in sporting competition. It's the latter clearly, and I for one am not complaining.

 

Football thrives on rivalry, and the fact we're the biggest/second biggest rivals of practically all the top 20 clubs in Scotland, is something I relish The fawning back-slappery/arse-kissing between fans of provincial clubs and celtic, with regards to Rangers, makes my skin crawl. "No one likes us we dont care" needs a stronger chin when you're vulnerable, as we were, and we've come back from that onslaught. The success now when it comes I guarantee will be all the sweeter. An improved team, a thriving support, and all set to gate-crash the love-in with revenge the order of the day. Tick tock. I can't wait

You don't seem to realise that Rangers (in whatever guise) and Celtic, are both provincial Clubs, Spartans however, are not.

[Ron Swanson]

You don't seem to realise that Rangers (in whatever guise) and Celtic, are both provincial Clubs, Spartans however, are not.

Spot on

 

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk

[CMc]

A discussion on why the world hates the blue bigots and nobody has mentioned Manchester?

 

Do you think Lance Armstrong still has fans going round cycling message boards trying to argue that he is still the real winner?

[Jambo-Jimbo]

You don't seem to realise that Rangers (in whatever guise) and Celtic, are both provincial Clubs, Spartans however, are not.

 

Yet again this just goes to show the lack of knowledge and the arrogance from brycey boy.

Edited March 31, 2016 by Jambo-Jimbo

[primrose]

Wow. As anti-Rangers rants go, that was some effort! If you were going for a 1000 word limit by the way, you missed it by one

 

With regards to a lack of contrition etc, I suggest you look up the word in a dictionary. "Sincere and complete remorse for sins one has committed." The reckless mismanagement of David Murray, the dodgy exploits of whyte, green etc are the responsibility of those individuals - to extend blame to the wider Rangers support, the men, women and children who follow their team every week, is absurd to the extent as to suggest a more sinister motive. Looking back at what could have been done in terms of scrutiny is one thing, but attempting to blame ordinary supporters who have lost out most of all is quite pathetic.

 

The stuff about being "lucky to be given" a berth in the 4th tier is more utter garbage. Despite the tabloid nonsense thrown around at the time, only a complete idiot would have thought that Rangers - in whatever corporate guise - would not survive into season 2012-13. This was a club/business with 46'500 regular "customers" in season 2011-12, that employed 100s of staff, one of the biggest football clubs in Europe. Rival fans drunk on schadenfreude aside, no sane individual would have for a second contemplated terminating that giant enterprise in favour of a pub team from the amateur backwaters of the game. You cannot seriously be stupid enough to have expected that at the time, or wonder now why it didn't happen? 

 

It terms of your nonsense about Gers not being "entitled to any place in Scottish football post-liquidation", where do I start. First of all, Oldco was not placed into liquidation until the 31st October - equating the rejection of a CVA with the commencement of liquidation is pure tabloid pish. The business sold on the 14th June never locked its doors, it never ceased operating: Rangers never resigned - or had terminated - it's entitlement as an SFA/SPL member until after the 5WA was signed and sealed. Therefore, like any other member, Gers had EVERY right to apply for the transfers of membership & share as occurred.

 

And so we come to your whine about "hostility" to rival clubs. These rival clubs which sent - entirely through the power afforded to them, quite legitimately, to vote on the matter - our club to the fourth tier of Scottish football. These rival clubs who revelled in our troubles and gulped down lies about our status, now entirely jettisoned by the authorities and media. Were they entitled to do so? Of course. We'd beaten them for decades, and were exposed - it's no wonder the pack of dogs set upon us, so to speak. Does this sound like a background to peace and love between Rangers fans and our rivals? Or a series of events bound to entrench the natural animosity that arises between a dominant club and it's rivals in sporting competition. It's the latter clearly, and I for one am not complaining.

 

Football thrives on rivalry, and the fact we're the biggest/second biggest rivals of practically all the top 20 clubs in Scotland, is something I relish The fawning back-slappery/arse-kissing between fans of provincial clubs and celtic, with regards to Rangers, makes my skin crawl. "No one likes us we dont care" needs a stronger chin when you're vulnerable, as we were, and we've come back from that onslaught. The success now when it comes I guarantee will be all the sweeter. An improved team, a thriving support, and all set to gate-crash the love-in with revenge the order of the day. Tick tock. I can't wait

 

 

 

So basically, ................ We are the people, No surrender, and all of the rest of us are timpathisers. 

 

 

BTW Provincial clubs?  Celtic and Rangers are provincial clubs, Only Hearts and Hibs are not.

[DETTY29]

You don't seem to realise that Rangers (in whatever guise) and Celtic, are both provincial Clubs, Spartans however, are not.

Provincial

an inhabitant of the regions outside the capital city of a country, especially when regarded as unsophisticated or narrow-minded.

"a town populated by money-grubbers'

Edited March 31, 2016 by DETTY29

[Footballfirst]

I've not disputed the narrative of the 1905 liquidation FF offered. Why would I when it's an irrelevant point, moot to anything I've put forward.

 

"Solvent reconstruction" is just lipstick on the pig that is liquidation - the company still dies!  So the doting son paid his father's debts to the penny after the old sod was packed off to dignitas, "voluntarily", it doesn't alter the terminal destination of the patient. 

 

I forced FootballFirst into conceding the club = company point in the course of his, essentially, agreeing with me:

 

The (solvent, voluntary, whatever) liquidation of Heart of Midlothian Football Club Limited in 1905 happened, but it did not spell the end of the 1874-formed football club which, by necessity, was a distinct entity. Amen to that. I just hope his pals on TSFM didn't notice such sacrilege

 

Your interpretation of what I posted is up to your usual standard of ignoring the substance of the argument and seeking to use crumbs to create a debate where none exists.

 

Your description of the legal construction that is "solvent reconstruction" is rank rotten and your analogy is a poor one.

 

You didn't force me into conceding anything. I simply stated the facts.

 

With regards to my "pals on TSFM", I have been consistent in my view on the continuation or otherwise of Rangers, both on here and on TSFM, and I suspect that your recollection of what I have posted on here is also flawed.  I suggest that you search back for my previous comments on sporting continuity for football clubs. You may be surprised by what you find.

[songster]

A discussion on why the world hates the blue bigots and nobody has mentioned Manchester?

 

My points were about why people hate rangers more after 2012; Manchester is a pretty high bar to topple but some Rangers fans seem determined to garner as much hatred of them as possible. Attacking Hearts supporters' buses with many children on, attacking lone school-aged supporters in a group of several men, attacking Rangers employees (a woman and an elderly man)... just one night which was under-reported due to the abandoned game and anti-board demonstration taking centre stage.

 

Most clubs have problem supporters and are taking steps (not fast enough, but progress is being made) to identify and ban them. Rangers are doing the opposite.

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

Celtic are a provincial club.

So are the huns.

 

[CMc]

My points were about why people hate rangers more after 2012; Manchester is a pretty high bar to topple but some Rangers fans seem determined to garner as much hatred of them as possible. Attacking Hearts supporters' buses with many children on, attacking lone school-aged supporters in a group of several men, attacking Rangers employees (a woman and an elderly man)... just one night which was under-reported due to the abandoned game and anti-board demonstration taking centre stage.

 

Most clubs have problem supporters and are taking steps (not fast enough, but progress is being made) to identify and ban them. Rangers are doing the opposite.

 

Wasn't meaning to criticise your excellent post. Their behaviour  at Ibrox that night was disgusting.

 

Just wanted to add another example of people having good cause to dislike the SEVCO supporters without needing any "anti-rangers bias".

[Jambo-Jimbo]

 

 

An improved team, a thriving support, and all set to gate-crash the love-in with revenge the order of the day. Tick tock. I can't wait

 

Revenge against whom and for what?

 

It was Rangers who overspent.

It was Rangers who failed to register players properly.

It was Rangers who failed to pay their taxes.

It was Rangers who failed to pay the face painter.

It was Rangers and Rangers alone who got themselves into the mess they found themselves in.

 

So if you want revenge, might I suggest you take it out on the real villains and I'm not on about Whyte & Green as they were just opportunists, which you lot allowed in when you sat back and did nothing.

No the real villains are none other than David Murray aided and abetted by Dave King and the board who presided over years of unsustainable spending, with little or no concerns of how it was ever going to be paid back, it was only when Lloyd's took over HBOS and the soft loans dried up did things start to come to a head.

 

The seeds of the downfall of Rangers were sown long before Craig Whyte appeared on the scene.

[The Future's Maroon]

Revenge against whom and for what?

 

It was Rangers who overspent.

It was Rangers who failed to register players properly.

It was Rangers who failed to pay their taxes.

It was Rangers who failed to pay the face painter.

It was Rangers and Rangers alone who got themselves into the mess they found themselves in.

 

So if you want revenge, might I suggest you take it out on the real villains and I'm not on about Whyte & Green as they were just opportunists, which you lot allowed in when you sat back and did nothing.

No the real villains are none other than David Murray aided and abetted by Dave King and the board who presided over years of unsustainable spending, with little or no concerns of how it was ever going to be paid back, it was only when Lloyd's took over HBOS and the soft loans dried up did things start to come to a head.

 

The seeds of the downfall of Rangers were sown long before Craig Whyte appeared on the scene.

 

Excellently put, and all factually correct.

[Dutchmul]

Wow. As anti-Rangers rants go, that was some effort! If you were going for a 1000 word limit by the way, you missed it by one

 

With regards to a lack of contrition etc, I suggest you look up the word in a dictionary. "Sincere and complete remorse for sins one has committed." The reckless mismanagement of David Murray, the dodgy exploits of whyte, green etc are the responsibility of those individuals - to extend blame to the wider Rangers support, the men, women and children who follow their team every week, is absurd to the extent as to suggest a more sinister motive. Looking back at what could have been done in terms of scrutiny is one thing, but attempting to blame ordinary supporters who have lost out most of all is quite pathetic.

 

The stuff about being "lucky to be given" a berth in the 4th tier is more utter garbage. Despite the tabloid nonsense thrown around at the time, only a complete idiot would have thought that Rangers - in whatever corporate guise - would not survive into season 2012-13. This was a club/business with 46'500 regular "customers" in season 2011-12, that employed 100s of staff, one of the biggest football clubs in Europe. Rival fans drunk on schadenfreude aside, no sane individual would have for a second contemplated terminating that giant enterprise in favour of a pub team from the amateur backwaters of the game. You cannot seriously be stupid enough to have expected that at the time, or wonder now why it didn't happen? 

 

It terms of your nonsense about Gers not being "entitled to any place in Scottish football post-liquidation", where do I start. First of all, Oldco was not placed into liquidation until the 31st October - equating the rejection of a CVA with the commencement of liquidation is pure tabloid pish. The business sold on the 14th June never locked its doors, it never ceased operating: Rangers never resigned - or had terminated - it's entitlement as an SFA/SPL member until after the 5WA was signed and sealed. Therefore, like any other member, Gers had EVERY right to apply for the transfers of membership & share as occurred.

 

And so we come to your whine about "hostility" to rival clubs. These rival clubs which sent - entirely through the power afforded to them, quite legitimately, to vote on the matter - our club to the fourth tier of Scottish football. These rival clubs who revelled in our troubles and gulped down lies about our status, now entirely jettisoned by the authorities and media. Were they entitled to do so? Of course. We'd beaten them for decades, and were exposed - it's no wonder the pack of dogs set upon us, so to speak. Does this sound like a background to peace and love between Rangers fans and our rivals? Or a series of events bound to entrench the natural animosity that arises between a dominant club and it's rivals in sporting competition. It's the latter clearly, and I for one am not complaining.

 

Football thrives on rivalry, and the fact we're the biggest/second biggest rivals of practically all the top 20 clubs in Scotland, is something I relish The fawning back-slappery/arse-kissing between fans of provincial clubs and celtic, with regards to Rangers, makes my skin crawl. "No one likes us we dont care" needs a stronger chin when you're vulnerable, as we were, and we've come back from that onslaught. The success now when it comes I guarantee will be all the sweeter. An improved team, a thriving support, and all set to gate-crash the love-in with revenge the order of the day. Tick tock. I can't wait

 

Usual pish from the sevco crew. there was no business sold, the assets of the business currently in liquidation(rangers football club) were sold to sevco and sevco changed it's name to the rangers international football club, the football team currently playing at ibrox in blue is The Rangers Football Club, which is a wholly owned subsidiary of RIFC. Recent court cases have referenced the fact that charles green and the other investors in sevco bought a bunch of assets from duff & duffer, they did not buy a football club, they did not buy rangers as rangers still exists as it is currently in liquidation.

 

Then the corruption at the heart of scottish football kicked in with regan and donkeycaster doing anything they could to parachute sevco firstly into the premier league, this failed so they tried the first division, that failed too so they allowed them to join the 3rd division.

 

Rangers died in 2012 and will cease to exist completely when the liquidation process is completed.

 

As for sevco, they are run by a convicted criminal and continue to lose cash every month. tick tock indeed.

[SwindonJambo]

And a convicted tax fraudster with no real wealth of any substance. He has shown no willingness to invest cash in Newco, probably because he hasn't got any. He's merely running them as a going concern, and one with more costs than income with a stadium needing remedial work.

[Riccarton3]

Revenge against whom and for what?

 

It was Rangers who overspent.

It was Rangers who failed to register players properly.

It was Rangers who failed to pay their taxes.

It was Rangers who failed to pay the face painter.

It was Rangers and Rangers alone who got themselves into the mess they found themselves in.

 

So if you want revenge, might I suggest you take it out on the real villains and I'm not on about Whyte & Green as they were just opportunists, which you lot allowed in when you sat back and did nothing.

No the real villains are none other than David Murray aided and abetted by Dave King and the board who presided over years of unsustainable spending, with little or no concerns of how it was ever going to be paid back, it was only when Lloyd's took over HBOS and the soft loans dried up did things start to come to a head.

 

The seeds of the downfall of Rangers were sown long before Craig Whyte appeared on the scene.

 

Naw. Revenge is against everybody that's been laughing at them, not the actual folk that put Rangers out of business. That's the mentality. Can't really be surprised.

[Paolo]

It's funny to see the Daily Record spin on the story.

 

As a Socialist paper you would expect it to be along the line of HMRC calls time on Tax dodgers. But because it's their beloved Rangers it's a tax grab against poor old Barry.

Socialists are only Socialists when it suits them, as is the Socialist media.