The Rangers soap opera goes on and on.

[Mikey1874]

"the truth"

 

Funny

[Jambo-Jimbo]

What mattered to Rangers fans was lies about the status of the club post-administration,

 

 

What mattered to the majority of Rangers fans the most was that they could still carry on with their outdated bigoted sectarian pish just like they have always done.

[reaths17]

What mattered to Rangers fans was lies about the status of the club post-administration, understandably embraced by lesser successful rivals (fans, not even their own clubs, interestingly), were not given a hint of credence by official bodies, or professional media.

 

Through the course of a few months after season 2012-13 started, the truth eventually won through (with the likes of Lord Nimmo Smith's commission, the BBC's investigation into their reporting, the European Club Association, the Advertising Standards Agency investigation etc, eliminating any doubt about where the facts resided).

 

Haters will continue to hate, that is true, but it's part and parcel of the game and the edge it adds to rivalries is only a good thing as far as im concerned. Fans singing "you're not Rangers" with tickets in their pockets and programmes bought with "Rangers vs" plastered on them, if anything, amuses me If you don't enjoy the banter, going to football games probably isn't the thing for you!

liquidations the word your really looking for and nimmo smith's farce has been shredded."who are these people" what facts did any of this lot turn up ?

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

What mattered to Rangers fans was lies about the status of the club post-administration, understandably embraced by lesser successful rivals (fans, not even their own clubs, interestingly), were not given a hint of credence by official bodies, or professional media.

 

Through the course of a few months after season 2012-13 started, the truth eventually won through (with the likes of Lord Nimmo Smith's commission, the BBC's investigation into their reporting, the European Club Association, the Advertising Standards Agency investigation etc, eliminating any doubt about where the facts resided).

 

Haters will continue to hate, that is true, but it's part and parcel of the game and the edge it adds to rivalries is only a good thing as far as im concerned. Fans singing "you're not Rangers" with tickets in their pockets and programmes bought with "Rangers vs" plastered on them, if anything, amuses me If you don't enjoy the banter, going to football games probably isn't the thing for you!

The truth is, rangers were bust and got liquidated because no-one on the planet wanted, or cared enough, to save them.

 

Big club? My arse.

[Mikey1874]

The truth is, rangers were bust and got liquidated because no-one on the planet wanted, or cared enough, to save them.

Still not answered by the 'real Rangers men'

 

Unless it suited King etc what happened

[lost in space]

What mattered to Rangers fans was lies about the status of the club post-administration, understandably embraced by lesser successful rivals (fans, not even their own clubs, interestingly), were not given a hint of credence by official bodies, or professional media.

 

Through the course of a few months after season 2012-13 started, the truth eventually won through (with the likes of Lord Nimmo Smith's commission, the BBC's investigation into their reporting, the European Club Association, the Advertising Standards Agency investigation etc, eliminating any doubt about where the facts resided).

 

Haters will continue to hate, that is true, but it's part and parcel of the game and the edge it adds to rivalries is only a good thing as far as im concerned. Fans singing "you're not Rangers" with tickets in their pockets and programmes bought with "Rangers vs" plastered on them, if anything, amuses me If you don't enjoy the banter, going to football games probably isn't the thing for you!

I love it when Bryce comes on here.  Its like watching an old western movie (bunch of cowboys from the west).  Bryce arrives - all guns blazing and full of righteous indignation.  He gets shot down by the good guys - and rides off, badly wounded.  Rides back later (on his white charger) to repeat the whole thing again.

Please stay Bryce - you are keeping us highly amused.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Still not answered by the 'real Rangers men'

 

Unless it suited King etc what happened

 

Well he did stand up and proclaimed to the media that he wanted the CVA to fail knowing only full well that liquidation would follow, and they think he's a 'Real Rangers Man'.

 

Mind he does fit the criteria, convicted criminal who was lucky enough to have enough money so he could pay the fines rather than spend the next 82 years in prison.

[Diadora Van Basten]

Post administration! PMSL

 

Liquidation is the word your looking for Brycey boy!

[Jamboelite]

L I Q U I D A T I O N say it loud and proud Bryce.

[bryce9a]

L I Q U I D A T I O N say it loud and proud Bryce.

L I Q U I D A T 1 9 0 5 N!!

L I Q U I D A T 1 9 0 5 N!! 

 

Loud and proud indeed, brother

[alwaysthereinspirit]

L I Q U I D A T 1 9 0 5 N!!

L I Q U I D A T 1 9 0 5 N!! 

 

Loud and proud indeed, brother

so close and yet so far. You just can't bring yourself to admit it.

There are help groups out there for people like you.

[heartsfc_fan]

.

[Unknown user]

L I Q U I D A T 1 9 0 5 N!!

L I Q U I D A T 1 9 0 5 N!!

 

Loud and proud indeed, brother

To be fair, rangers' liquidation WAS post administration.

 

You can ram your whataboutery by the way, it doesn't change a thing - you let your club die.

[JamboJen]

"Rangers post-administration" liquidation is what happened post-administration.

 

 

Zombie, zombie, zombie-ee-ee.

Edited March 29, 2016 by JamboJen

[Diadora Van Basten]

L I Q U I D A T 1 9 0 5 N!!

L I Q U I D A T 1 9 0 5 N!!

 

Loud and proud indeed, brother

S O L V E N T R E C O N S T R U C T I O N

[Diadora Van Basten]

L I Q U I D A T 1 9 0 5 N!!

L I Q U I D A T 1 9 0 5 N!!

 

Loud and proud indeed, brother

S O L V E N T R E C O N S T R U C T I O N

[dozy dick the dooman]

Solvent misuse more like

[corryjambo]

L I Q U I D A T 1 9 0 5 N!!

L I Q U I D A T 1 9 0 5 N!! 

 

Loud and proud indeed, brother

 

Tell you what dafty. Even if in the strange world you inhabit we had been liquidated in 1905 we would still have 111 years history to look back on. That would be a pretty thick book. Your 4 years history could be written on an A4 sheet of paper. 

[Justin Z]

Exactly, Corry.  Even if the 1905 supposition is correct, who gives a toss?

 

GLASGOW RANGERS, YOU LET YOUR CLUB DIE

[Charlie-Brown]

1905 whataboutery aside RFC 1872-2012 is irrefutable that club ended and died and the new Rangers Football Club aka Sevco 5088 was born.....

[niblick1874]

Not only did they die, they died in disgrace amid revelations of cheating and corruption that have since been proven to be true. They still stinks the place out thanks to the corrupt system they put in place.

[Seymour M Hersh]

**** the shithawk ship The Rangers and all who sail in her.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

It pleases me that bryce and sad sacks like him have wasted so much of their lives on this fruitless attempt at persuasion.

[bryce9a]

Exactly, Corry.  Even if the 1905 supposition is correct, who gives a toss?

 

There is no "if" about it. Hearts incorporated 1903. Company died (albeit vountarily) in 1905. Current newco formed. 

 

Asserting club = company, that they're one and the same thing, leaves no room for manoeuvre.

Dead company = dead club. Call it voluntary if you want, suicide still entails death.

 

But aye, "who cares".  

It's only your founding fathers, 31 years of history, and 5 of your 12 league titles/scottish cups your club loses any claim to...

 

Well worth it for a snipe at the Gers

[Benny Factor]

There is no "if" about it. Hearts incorporated 1903. Company died (albeit vountarily) in 1905. Current newco formed.

 

Asserting club = company, that they're one and the same thing, leaves no room for manoeuvre.

Dead company = dead club. Call it voluntary if you want, suicide still entails death.

 

But aye, "who cares".

It's only your founding fathers, 31 years of history, and 5 of your 12 league titles/scottish cups your club loses any claim to...

 

Well worth it for a snipe at the Gers

You keep pushing this in a way as if the two situations were in some way comparable.

 

We paid our debts, your mob didn't.

[Hearts Heritage]

There is no "if" about it. Hearts incorporated 1903. Company died (albeit vountarily) in 1905. Current newco formed.

 

Asserting club = company, that they're one and the same thing, leaves no room for manoeuvre.

Dead company = dead club. Call it voluntary if you want, suicide still entails death.

 

But aye, "who cares".

It's only your founding fathers, 31 years of history, and 5 of your 12 league titles/scottish cups your club loses any claim to...

 

Well worth it for a snipe at the Gers

A little knowledge is clearly dangerous without any insight.

 

The football club fulfilled all its fixtures that season at no point was this even a possibility.

 

The football club continued its membership of the SFA and the SFL. Under the rules then in place the liquidation was not even an issue.

[Hearts Heritage]

There is no "if" about it. Hearts incorporated 1903. Company died (albeit vountarily) in 1905. Current newco formed.

 

Asserting club = company, that they're one and the same thing, leaves no room for manoeuvre.

Dead company = dead club. Call it voluntary if you want, suicide still entails death.

 

But aye, "who cares".

It's only your founding fathers, 31 years of history, and 5 of your 12 league titles/scottish cups your club loses any claim to...

 

Well worth it for a snipe at the Gers

A little knowledge is clearly dangerous without any insight.

 

The football club fulfilled all its fixtures that season at no point was this even a possibility.

 

The football club continued its membership of the SFA and the SFL. Under the rules then in place the liquidation was not even an issue.

[Diadora Van Basten]

There is no "if" about it. Hearts incorporated 1903. Company died (albeit vountarily) in 1905. Current newco formed.

 

Asserting club = company, that they're one and the same thing, leaves no room for manoeuvre.

Dead company = dead club. Call it voluntary if you want, suicide still entails death.

 

But aye, "who cares".

It's only your founding fathers, 31 years of history, and 5 of your 12 league titles/scottish cups your club loses any claim to...

 

Well worth it for a snipe at the Gers

The only clubs in Scotland that were liquidated were Third Lanark, Airdrie, Gretna and Rangers.

 

Third Lanark and Gretna are no longer member clubs, Airdrie bought Clydebank and changed the name whilst Rangers formed a tribute act who were admitted into the bottom tier of Scottish football.

[Footballfirst]

Bryce knows all this already, but just to repeat what I posted ages ago, Hearts reconstruction was carried out under S161 of the 1862 Companies Act.

 

 

The process is set out as above. So what did Hearts do?

 

 

 

So Hearts followed the designated process as set out in the Companies Act, voluntary liquidation of the oldco, appointed liquidators, raised funds from the Newco, transferred assets and liabilities from the oldco to the newco, ensured that the shareholders of the oldco did not lose out, and (Bryce please note, because any comparison with TRFC Ltd ends here) paid ALL creditors in full.

 

Bryce's "historian" source is also incorrect in terms of Hearts indebtedness, when he say it was over ?2000.  The debts were ?1400, increasing to ?1600 by the time the process was completed. The source of this information is Hearts themselves.

 

 

 

Financial Crisis

During season 1904-05 the club ran into financial difficulties because the limited company formed in 1903 was unable to continue after debts amounting to ?1,400 had accumulated. In March 1905 at a Quarterly General Meeting, a resolution, "Proposal for Temporary Loans from Present Shareholders", was defeated by 94 votes to 72, but later that month, three resolutions were passed and the company was voluntarily wound up. On 29 April 1905, the present company was incorporated on the Register of Companies and the new concern picked up the debt which had increased to ?1,600. Despite a problem selling all the new shares it cleared this debt within a reasonably short time.

 

When Bryce first posted the "liquidation" notice on JKB he deliberately chose not to include resolution 3 in his posted image. Why?   Because it showed how Hearts achieved its reconstruction under section 161 of the Companies Act. That would not fit in with his narrative of course, so he resorts to trolling us once again.

 

Until such time as TRFC pays off ALL the oldco's creditors in full, including HMRC, then there is no comparison to be had between the situations.

 

So I would urge Bryce to crawl back beneath the rock from whence he came and I'd request that the mods finally ban him for trolling.

Edited March 30, 2016 by Footballfirst

[davieholt]

Bravo FF 

[Unknown user]

There is no "if" about it. Hearts incorporated 1903. Company died (albeit vountarily) in 1905. Current newco formed.

 

Asserting club = company, that they're one and the same thing, leaves no room for manoeuvre.

Dead company = dead club. Call it voluntary if you want, suicide still entails death.

 

But aye, "who cares".

It's only your founding fathers, 31 years of history, and 5 of your 12 league titles/scottish cups your club loses any claim to...

 

Well worth it for a snipe at the Gers

Hey Bryce you just run off every time we come out to play, why is that?

 

So anyway, 1905.

 

1905.

 

Is there even anyone alive from 1905?

 

Not that it matters, my conscience is clear- I helped stop my club from dying and there's zero I can do about 1905- it makes no difference to me if hearts stopped in 1905 and restarted.

 

It's like 7-0, I've long laughed at my cousin for bringing up a game that happened before either of us were born - it really didn't affect my day any!

 

You, however, you let your club die

 

(Mods, can we change Bryce9a's title to "chief whataboutery technician" or something, just so everyone knows what they're dealing with?)

[bryce9a]

Bryce knows all this already, but just to repeat what I posted ages ago, Hearts reconstruction was carried out under S161 of the 1862 Companies Act.

 

 

The process is set out as above. So what did Hearts do?

 

 

 

So Hearts followed the designated process as set out in the Companies Act, voluntary liquidation of the oldco, appointed liquidators, raised funds from the Newco, transferred assets and liabilities from the oldco to the newco, ensured that the shareholders of the oldco did not lose out, and (Bryce please note, because any comparison with TRFC Ltd ends here) paid ALL creditors in full.

 

Bryce's "historian" source is also incorrect in terms of Hearts indebtedness, when he say it was over ?2000.  The debts were ?1400, increasing to ?1600 by the time the process was completed. The source of this information is Hearts themselves.

 

 

 

 

When Bryce first posted the "liquidation" notice on JKB he deliberately chose not to include resolution 3 in his posted image. Why?   Because it showed how Hearts achieved its reconstruction under section 161 of the Companies Act. That would not fit in with his narrative of course, so he resorts to trolling us once again.

 

Until such time as TRFC pays off ALL the oldco's creditors in full, including HMRC, then there is no comparison to be had between the situations.

 

So I would urge Bryce to crawl back beneath the rock from whence he came and I'd request that the mods finally ban him for trolling.

 

Requesting I be censored. Very "scottish football monitor" of you, footballfirst

 

If I was trolling I'd be saying Hearts died etc, but I'm not - I'm arguing the exact opposite.

 

In fact, my perspective (that football clubs and their corporate entities are distinct) is the only conceivable basis for making such a claim that Hearts 1874 is still alive and kicking today.

 

Your above contribution is a master class is straw-manning your opponent. 

I'm not disputing the 1905 newco paid the oldco's debts, so pushing that point is irrelevant.

I'm not disputing that the liquidation/asset transfer process followed in 1905 was above board, so pushing that point is irrelevant.

 

The sole point I wish you to address is this: 

 

How can (as you state)  "transferred assets and liabilities from the oldco to the newco" ensure club survival if the liquidating oldco was indistinguishable from the club? Either club = company after incorporation, or does it not. Your answer will be of interest to everyone

[Australis]

You're just an expert at whataboutery aren't you?

 

You'll never escape from the fact that you let your club die.

 

Away and open the existential thrash if you want to discuss all that, but we all know you let your club die.

 

 

Yep Rangers died, they are broon bread dead.

Call them what you want they were liquidated and sevco, the Rangers whatever,........... are only 4 years old at most.

[Unknown user]

Requesting I be censored. Very "scottish football monitor" of you, footballfirst

 

If I was trolling I'd be saying Hearts died etc, but I'm not - I'm arguing the exact opposite.

 

In fact, my perspective (that football clubs and their corporate entities are distinct) is the only conceivable basis for making such a claim that Hearts 1874 is still alive and kicking today.

 

Your above contribution is a master class is straw-manning your opponent.

I'm not disputing the 1905 newco paid the oldco's debts, so pushing that point is irrelevant.

I'm not disputing that the liquidation/asset transfer process followed in 1905 was above board, so pushing that point is irrelevant.

 

The sole point I wish you to address is this:

 

How can (as you state) "transferred assets and liabilities from the oldco to the newco" ensure club survival if the liquidating oldco was indistinguishable from the club? Either club = company after incorporation, or does it not. Your answer will be of interest to everyone

[marshallschunkychicken]

Is it not the case that voluntary solvent reconstruction was the only option available to Hearts back in 1905, as the concept of administration didn't come into existence until the mid 1980s?

[jambali]

There is no "if" about it. Hearts incorporated 1903. Company died (albeit vountarily) in 1905. Current newco formed. 

 

Asserting club = company, that they're one and the same thing, leaves no room for manoeuvre.

Dead company = dead club. Call it voluntary if you want, suicide still entails death.

 

But aye, "who cares".  

It's only your founding fathers, 31 years of history, and 5 of your 12 league titles/scottish cups your club loses any claim to...

 

Well worth it for a snipe at the Gers

and...

you let your club die - how often do you need to be told?

[jamboruss]

LTSF

[Footballfirst]

The sole point I wish you to address is this: 

 

How can (as you state)  "transferred assets and liabilities from the oldco to the newco" ensure club survival if the liquidating oldco was indistinguishable from the club? Either club = company after incorporation, or does it not. Your answer will be of interest to everyone

 

It doesn't in isolation, as you well know.

 

However, when it is legally coupled with looking after the interests of oldco's shareholders and paying off creditors in full, it becomes a "solvent reconstruction", which even today is permitted under SFA rules.

 

How much does RFC (2012) PLC (IL) still owe its creditors?   Feel free to come back when those creditors are paid off in full, then it might be a point worthy of further discussion.

 

[eddiepolio]

Okay Brycey boy, I'm going to take full responsibility that the mighty Jam tarts only exist from 1905 and any honours should be expunged from our records. Right, your go......go on just admit it......Rangers are 4 years old.......see its easy......

Edited March 30, 2016 by eddiepolio

[Jambo-Jimbo]

 

 

If I was trolling I'd be saying Hearts died etc, but I'm not - I'm arguing the exact opposite.

 

 

 

 

But you are trolling because you know only full well that there is a separate thread for all this stuff.

 

So if you want to discuss the "we are the same club" crap, might I suggest that you post on the thread which was set up for this debate and leave this thread alone so it can discuss the ongoing soap opera at Ibrox.

[Tasavallan]

1905 whataboutery aside RFC 1872-2012 is irrefutable that club ended and died and the new Rangers Football Club aka Sevco 5088 was born.....

Apart from those bluenoses in terminal self denial, this fact is well documented.   What we are now seeing is like the film FACE/OFF where either party (Travolta/Cage) pretend they are the other.  

[Homme]

I don't give a shit if Hearts liquidised in 1905.

 

It doesn't change the fact Rangers died in 2012.

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

Fact is, no-one (not marti pellow, not Walter Smith, not John greig, none of their millions of fans around the globe) cared rangers died.

 

Apart from those like us that laughed, and laughed, and are still laughing.

[XB52]

Bryce knows all this already, but just to repeat what I posted ages ago, Hearts reconstruction was carried out under S161 of the 1862 Companies Act.

 

 

The process is set out as above. So what did Hearts do?

 

 

 

So Hearts followed the designated process as set out in the Companies Act, voluntary liquidation of the oldco, appointed liquidators, raised funds from the Newco, transferred assets and liabilities from the oldco to the newco, ensured that the shareholders of the oldco did not lose out, and (Bryce please note, because any comparison with TRFC Ltd ends here) paid ALL creditors in full.

 

Bryce's "historian" source is also incorrect in terms of Hearts indebtedness, when he say it was over ?2000.  The debts were ?1400, increasing to ?1600 by the time the process was completed. The source of this information is Hearts themselves.

 

 

 

 

When Bryce first posted the "liquidation" notice on JKB he deliberately chose not to include resolution 3 in his posted image. Why?   Because it showed how Hearts achieved its reconstruction under section 161 of the Companies Act. That would not fit in with his narrative of course, so he resorts to trolling us once again.

 

Until such time as TRFC pays off ALL the oldco's creditors in full, including HMRC, then there is no comparison to be had between the situations.

 

So I would urge Bryce to crawl back beneath the rock from whence he came and I'd request that the mods finally ban him for trolling.

and so say all of us

[Hearts Heritage]

An ironic fact is the reason Hearts formed a limited company in 1903 was to limit any liability following the Ibrox Disaster of 1902.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Carl Fredrickson]

I am not questioning the actions of the Mods but why isnt the last few pages of trolling not on the thread specifically created for such nonsense? 

 

O and Bryce, YOU LET YOUR CLUB DIE 

[Francis Albert]

It doesn't in isolation, as you well know.

 

However, when it is legally coupled with looking after the interests of oldco's shareholders and paying off creditors in full, it becomes a "solvent reconstruction", which even today is permitted under SFA rules.

 

How much does RFC (2012) PLC (IL) still owe its creditors?   Feel free to come back when those creditors are paid off in full, then it might be a point worthy of further discussion.

 

Is it the case that if Rangers had undergone a voluntary (or solvent) reconstruction in a similar way that Hearts did in 1905 there would have been no SFA or SPL sanction and no question of points deductions or a requirement to apply for (re-)admission to the SFA and league?

 

I remember reading the SFA/SPL rules at the time and there seemed to be provision for such company reconstructions.

Edited March 30, 2016 by Francis Albert

[The Future's Maroon]

Don't ban him, its like our own little pet to keep....Just a pity he/she can and will not admit the truth. They and fellow fans LET THEIR CLUB DIE.

[Footballfirst]

Is it the case that if Rangers had undergone a voluntary (or solvent) reconstruction in a similar way that Hearts did in 1905 there would have been no SFA or SPL sanction and no question of points deductions or a requirement to apply for (re-)admission to the SFA and league?

 

Correct.

 

The SFA defines an insolvency event as :

?insolvency event? - means circumstances where a member suspends, or threatens to suspend payment of its debts, or is unable to pay its debts as they fall due or admits inability to pay its debts, or is deemed unable to pay its debts within the meaning of section 123 of the Insolvency Act 1986; the convening of a meeting for the purpose of considering a resolution for the winding up of a member; the appointment of any provisional liquidator to a member; the liquidation of a member (other than for the purposes of a bona fide solvent reconstruction);the making of an administration order or an order by the court appointing an interim manager or manager or the court making an order in terms of paragraph 13(3)( of Schedule B1 of the Insolvency Act 1986 in relation to a member; the appointment of an administrator by the directors or by a qualifying charge holder (as defined in paragraph 14 of Schedule B1 of the Insolvency Act 1986) of a member; the appointment of a receiver (including without limitation an administrative receiver) in respect of the whole or any part of the  property, assets and/or undertaking of a member; .....................etc

[Riccarton3]

There's no way back from liquidation. It's the ultimate failure. That old club finished with more titles than their rivals - but at an awful cost, leaving some supporters desperately unhinged.