The Rangers soap opera goes on and on.

[Wilson]

Now that legal action has been initiated, I'd be very careful not to make allegations of guilt in relation to either the 2011 purchase of the club, or the 2012 sale of the club's assets.

Absolutely. Mods should keep an eye on this now that charges have been laid.

[reaths17]

Just to chuck in another bizaar scenario, the oldco are not yet liquidated and still hold the registration for Rangers Football club (the club), the newco (the company) have a new registration for the new football club in disguise as the old club.  if the assets are in dispute then so should the registration, if they are the same football club then MA's claim over the badge and the name will still be valid?   if its not and there is even a sniff of the ownership of all it component parts, then as a company the newco is worthless, and I would guess MA and the directers will ask for their respective loans back while there is season ticket money in the bank?

 

This will drag on for years, but appart from who owns the Big Hoose?  who actually has a claim to what?   Still it might be nothing to see here and we all move on?  The fans might be claiming a pyrrhic victory, but the lawyers are the real and only winners in this.

if this case is found to be a fraudulent sale, all assets will revert back to oldco to be desposed of for the benefit of the original creditors. I would have imagined. the one getting his bank balance burned would be Ashley. king was involved both sides, all other parties were duped into jumping on the gravy boat.

 

a stolen car will always be returned to the owners(oldco) and depending on the timescale that could even be the insurance company in a cars case, can't see this being any difference. it's up to the purchasers to look inside the bag before paying is how I would see this going with newco creditors.

[Jam Tarts 1874]

Just to chuck in another bizaar scenario, the oldco are not yet liquidated and still hold the registration for Rangers Football club (the club), the newco (the company) have a new registration for the new football club in disguise as the old club.  if the assets are in dispute then so should the registration, if they are the same football club then MA's claim over the badge and the name will still be valid?   if its not and there is even a sniff of the ownership of all it component parts, then as a company the newco is worthless, and I would guess MA and the directers will ask for their respective loans back while there is season ticket money in the bank?

 

This will drag on for years, but appart from who owns the Big Hoose?  who actually has a claim to what?   Still it might be nothing to see here and we all move on?  The fans might be claiming a pyrrhic victory, but the lawyers are the real and only winners in this.

 

I'm pretty sure that the old Rangers SFA registration was transferred to The Rangers in return for Green paying one of the fines or for agreeing to give up old Rangers' golden share in the SPL.

[AllyjamboDerbyshire]

Aye, but at that point the talk was all about achieving a CVA. The whole 'phoenix company' thing had been mentioned by commentators but not by the actual consortium bidders. 

 

I imagine the 2 consortiums were pretty much the same in terms of value to creditors. The big difference was The Blue Knights was credible and had done weeks of due diligence. They had nothing to hide. Then there was Greens consortium, and nobody knew anything about them.

 

The Blue Knights had a genuine intention to achieve a CVA, whereas (with the benefit of hindsight) Green had absolutely no intention of getting a CVA.  

How close do you think the Blue Knights were to raising enough money to achieve a CVA? I would imagine the amount required would be enough to meet the amount owed to HMRC, or pretty close to it, as it is their, well known, policy that they won't accept a CVA that leaves them short-changed.

 

Of course, we know why the Blue Knights were so desperate to achieve a CVA, while non-Rangers man, Green, couldn't have cared less!

[adayinmay]

Just to chuck in another bizaar scenario, the oldco are not yet liquidated and still hold the registration for Rangers Football club (the club), the newco (the company) have a new registration for the new football club in disguise as the old club.  if the assets are in dispute then so should the registration, if they are the same football club then MA's claim over the badge and the name will still be valid?   if its not and there is even a sniff of the ownership of all it component parts, then as a company the newco is worthless, and I would guess MA and the directers will ask for their respective loans back while there is season ticket money in the bank?

 

This will drag on for years, but appart from who owns the Big Hoose?  who actually has a claim to what?   Still it might be nothing to see here and we all move on?  The fans might be claiming a pyrrhic victory, but the lawyers are the real and only winners in this.

 

Is the bit in bold actually the case? Not doubting it, just not heard that detail. Which is quite an important detail!

[jambovambo]

What you've highlighted Boris is obvious to all except those who deny Rangers were liquidated and still exist. Triggersbroom is just like that other apologist who used to argue till he was blue in the face that nothing had changed at Rangers.

Arf

[Footballfirst]

Grant Russell ?@STVGrant 1m1 minute ago

Former Rangers chief Charles Green has been granted bail at Glasgow Sheriff Court in connection with alleged fraudulent acquisition in 2012.

 

I'd guess that the others will also be granted bail.

Edited September 2, 2015 by Footballfirst

[DETTY29]

How close do you think the Blue Knights were to raising enough money to achieve a CVA? I would imagine the amount required would be enough to meet the amount owed to HMRC, or pretty close to it, as it is their, well known, policy that they won't accept a CVA that leaves them short-changed.

 

Of course, we know why the Blue Knights were so desperate to achieve a CVA, while non-Rangers man, Green, couldn't have cared less!

I think the Blue Knights offer was ?6.5m.

[jambovambo]

 

Grant Russell ?@STVGrant 1m1 minute ago

Former Rangers chief Charles Green has been granted bail at Glasgow Sheriff Court in connection with alleged fraudulent acquisition in 2012.

 

I'd guess that the others will also be granted bail.

 

Shooter's got a bit of a track record of not showing up in the past though - mainly to do with his domestic situation v his castle etc though.

[itsnomarooned]

if this case is found to be a fraudulent sale, all assets will revert back to oldco to be desposed of for the benefit of the original creditors. I would have imagined. the one getting his bank balance burned would be Ashley. king was involved both sides, all other parties were duped into jumping on the gravy boat.

 

a stolen car will always be returned to the owners(oldco) and depending on the timescale that could even be the insurance company in a cars case, can't see this being any difference. it's up to the purchasers to look inside the bag before paying is how I would see this going with newco creditors.

 

I have no knowledge of these things whatsoever (so I'm in good company on here) - however, I can't help but think the stolen car analogy is just so much wishful thinking.  I just can't see assets or whatever being returned to a company/organisation/entity that perhaps only exists as a technicality.  Also, are we somehow hoping that all this will make the team on the park cease to exist?  I rather doubt it.  In reality I don't imagine the current shenanigans will have any real impact on what we currently know as Rangers playing in the Championship - unfortunately.

 

I may of course be well wide of the mark and perhaps even the current owners might succeed in making an erse of things again all by themselves.  If so then I'll be guffawing as loud as all the rest.

[Footballfirst]

I think the Blue Knights offer was ?6.5m.

 

Here is some detail on the BK offer from a BBC article at the time and extracts from the D&P Creditors report dated 10 July 2012

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18028910

 

 

Final Sale Process

5.39 On the May Bank Holiday weekend, following dialogue with the SFA and the SPL it became apparent that Mr Miller was considering the withdrawal of his offer. As such, a draft SPA was sent to Party 4 and Sevco. An SPA was not sent to Party 2/3 as it had not indicated that it would consider submitting any offer other than in conjunction with a CVA.

 

5.40 On 8 May 2012 Mr Miller withdrew his offer.

 

5.41 On 10 May 2012, Party 4?s advisors made a verbal offer of ?5m for the business and assets of the Club at which point Party 2/3 submitted a funding proposal for trading the Club whilst a CVA was proposed however the quantum of this party?s offer remained below the Sevco offer.

 

5.42 The final remaining offers were therefore:

 

Offer 2/3 (Blue Knights)

5.43 The final offer was for ?5.5m however the purchaser wished to retain the football debtor balance of ?3.8m leaving a net benefit to the estate of ?1.7m. A funding proposal was put to the Joint Administrators whilst a CVA was proposed to creditors however this offer remained uncompetitive.

 

Offer 4

5.44 A verbal offer for the business and assets of the Company was received for ?5m. No CVA proposal was required.

 

Offer 6 (SEVCO)

5.45 ?8.25m to fund a CVA, if the CVA failed then it would revert to an SPA with a sale price of ?5.5m. An exclusivity payment of ?200k and provision of funding whilst a CVA was proposed.

 

5.46 Having regard to the remaining offers the Joint Administrators were satisfied that the Sevco offer provided the best potential return to creditors of the Company. Therefore on 12 May 2012 the Joint Administrators accepted the Sevco offer.

 

5.47 As discussed in Section 6 below the CVA Proposal was rejected by creditors at the meeting held on 14 June 2012 and a sale of the business and assets of the Club completed shortly afterwards to Sevco.

 

5.48 Following the CVA creditors? meeting on 14 June 2012, the Joint Administrators were approached by a party verbally offering ?6m for the business and assets of the Company. No offer had been received by this party in the previous 17 weeks. The person making the offer was believed to be part of the Party 3 consortium. Notwithstanding the verbal offer, the Joint Administrators confirmed that a binding contractual agreement with Sevco had been reached and the business, history and assets were subsequently transferred from the Company to Sevco.

Edited September 2, 2015 by Footballfirst

[jambovambo]

Page 1684 ... not long now !

[Glamorgan Jambo]

Just watched the twitter video of the 'walk of shame' for Green from the court to his car. Once again Craig Houston is easily spotted shouting and behaving in a very agitated and aggressive way. Any chance the police will have a word in his ear????

[OmiyaHearts]

Just watched the twitter video of the 'walk of shame' for Green from the court to his car. Once again Craig Houston is easily spotted shouting and behaving in a very agitated and aggressive way. Any chance the police will have a word in his ear????

Who is Craig Houston?

[Glamorgan Jambo]

Houston is one of the Rangers fans group leaders (I forget which one). He's been on TV numerous times and worked very closely with Paul Murray and possibly even Dave King. He's been in the directors box at Ibrox on several occasions. If any of the FOH board behaved anything close to the way he did they'd be totally shredded by the media.

[jambogemz]

Houston is one of the Rangers fans group leaders (I forget which one). He's been on TV numerous times and worked very closely with Paul Murray and possibly even Dave King. He's been in the directors box at Ibrox on several occasions. If any of the FOH board behaved anything close to the way he did they'd be totally shredded by the media.

He's also had plenty air time on sportsounds weekday programme where he comes across as confrontational and utterly clueless.

[...a bit disco]

[Seymour M Hersh]

He's also had plenty air time on sportsounds weekday programme where he comes across as confrontational and utterly clueless.

 

Bog standard hun then?

[Footballfirst]

Who is Craig Houston?

 

"Sons of Struth"

[The Comedian]

Who is Craig Houston?

 

He's a grown man who hangs around courthouses so he can swear and grunt for thirty second's.

 

A pants on the outside of the trousers type, basically.

[The Gasman]

I have no knowledge of these things whatsoever (so I'm in good company on here) - however, I can't help but think the stolen car analogy is just so much wishful thinking. I just can't see assets or whatever being returned to a company/organisation/entity that perhaps only exists as a technicality. Also, are we somehow hoping that all this will make the team on the park cease to exist? I rather doubt it. In reality I don't imagine the current shenanigans will have any real impact on what we currently know as Rangers playing in the Championship - unfortunately.

 

I may of course be well wide of the mark and perhaps even the current owners might succeed in making an erse of things again all by themselves. If so then I'll be guffawing as loud as all the rest.

What happens in the court room(s) may have no direct impact on the current Rangers team - but any uncertainty over the ownership of assets, or a question mark over the legality of the sale and purchase of these assets, is likely to scupper any attempts by the current board to raise funds by a share issue.

 

Rangers have millions of pounds of debt, and are still trading at a substantial loss - so must be burning through their season ticket revenue (which was considerably down on what they claimed they needed) at a fearsome rate. If the legal shenanigans stop them raising new capital, then it may still end in tears - though I don't think it likely that would kill them completely.

[Paolo]

What happens in the court room(s) may have no direct impact on the current Rangers team - but any uncertainty over the ownership of assets, or a question mark over the legality of the sale and purchase of these assets, is likely to scupper any attempts by the current board to raise funds by a share issue.

 

Rangers have millions of pounds of debt, and are still trading at a substantial loss - so must be burning through their season ticket revenue (which was considerably down on what they claimed they needed) at a fearsome rate. If the legal shenanigans stop them raising new capital, then it may still end in tears - though I don't think it likely that would kill them completely.

You had to spoil it at the end.

[Mikey1874]

Partly because there's been very little proper mainstream scrutiny its easy just to see this as another event in the saga.

 

But this could be big and really is some come down for a great institution. Well done to the Police for going after this and those who have helped with evidence.

 

Either way it should provide some form of closure that the long suffering fans have wanted. Interesting where all the evidence has come from. Unacceptable conduct if proven.

 

Oh by the way when I say great I also mean vile sectarian bullying anti-competitive body albeit a product of society with many decent people.

 

The club need to be able to move on and this should help.

[RobNox]

 

Put this up before, but this is the senior BDO guy leading up the RFC Plc (IL) case.

 

And his biography.

 

MALCOLM COHEN

• A
• A

BIOGRAPHY:

Malcolm is a Licensed Insolvency Practitioner  with thirty years business restructuring and insolvency experience. Malcolm has extensive knowledge across a range of sectors including, financial services, property, professional services, shipping and not for profit. Malcolm leads the firms' National  Contentious Insolvency Team, this team is dedicated to recovering assets through litigation, cross border investigations and uncovering fraud. He also leads the firms' Corporate Streamlining Team restructuring

 

No wonder he got the Rangers gig then!

[jambovambo]

"conspiracy and involvement in serious organised crime" ...

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-34127507

Edited September 2, 2015 by jambovambo

[RobNox]

Here is some detail on the BK offer from a BBC article at the time and extracts from the D&P Creditors report dated 10 July 2012

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18028910

So basically the Blue Knights had ?1.7m to put in?

[RobNox]

Houston is one of the Rangers fans group leaders (I forget which one). He's been on TV numerous times and worked very closely with Paul Murray and possibly even Dave King. He's been in the directors box at Ibrox on several occasions. If any of the FOH board behaved anything close to the way he did they'd be totally shredded by the media.

Was he the one that was appointed the Rangers Board only to be emptied days later, or I'm I getting my roasters mixed up?

[Footballfirst]

So basically the Blue Knights had ?1.7m to put in?

 

?1.7M plus add-ons when they got into Europe, would you believe.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Was he the one that was appointed the Rangers Board only to be emptied days later, or I'm I getting my roasters mixed up?

 

It was Chris Graham who lasted one whole day on the board.

[TriggersBroom]

Was he the one that was appointed the Rangers Board only to be emptied days later, or I'm I getting my roasters mixed up?

You'll be thinking of Chris Graham? He is involved in the Rangers Supporters Trust, and he got a place on the board. But then his old twitter posts got trawled through and the media kicked up a right stink about one written in aftermath of the terror shootings in Paris. He seems a smart guy, but his twitter posts make him out to be a bit bitter. 

[Alva-Jambo]

One of Green's charges he would not have realised existed  or so I assume,  the English  based Green would have taken English Law advice.  BUt

there is now a charge only in Scotland something like " working with another to commit crime "  or organised crime, or some such wording 

This is one that could come back and  kick him. 

[Toxteth O'Grady]

You'll be thinking of Chris Graham? He is involved in the Rangers Supporters Trust, and he got a place on the board. But then his old twitter posts got trawled through and the media kicked up a right stink about one written in aftermath of the terror shootings in Paris. He seems a smart guy, but his twitter posts make him out to be a bit bitter.

A decent Sevco supporter is hard to find. Even more so a decent investor. There lies your problem. Our great man Brian Jackson will be looking to get every penny he can for creditors before he finally liquidates Oldco. I wish him well

[RobNox]

That's the guy. I remember now.

 

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

[Deevers]

If all of this does go to trial - I wonder where on earth they are going to hold it. Selecting an impartial jury will be something of an excercise as well!

[Glamorgan Jambo]

According to Fraser from the Beeb the charge sheets are

 

Whyte - conspiracy

Whitehouse - conspiracy

Green - conspiracy & fraud

 

Which looks to me like this is all to do with the asset sale and nothing to do with the later IPO and general cash burn.

[Andrew Gilbert Wauchope]

If all of this does go to trial - I wonder where on earth they are going to hold it. Selecting an impartial jury will be something of an excercise as well!

 

Precedent suggests either a hotel in London or a marquee at Ibrox.  As for a jury, any 15 non-Rangers fans should see justice done.

[RobNox]

If all of this does go to trial - I wonder where on earth they are going to hold it. Selecting an impartial jury will be something of an excercise as well!

Israel?

[Andrew Gilbert Wauchope]

Page 1684 ... not long now !

 

 

Irony upon irony.  Looks like page 1690 will be dominated by Green and Whyte!

[RobNox]

According to Fraser from the Beeb the charge sheets are

 

Whyte - conspiracy

Whitehouse - conspiracy

Green - conspiracy & fraud

 

Which looks to me like this is all to do with the asset sale and nothing to do with the later IPO and general cash burn.

That would be my take too.  Whyte and Whitehouse had no part to play in the shenanigans following the asset sale (or none that we are aware of!!)

[RobNox]

Irony upon irony.  Looks like page 1690 will be dominated by Green and Whyte!

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

According to Fraser from the Beeb the charge sheets are

 

Whyte - conspiracy

Whitehouse - conspiracy

Green - conspiracy & fraud

 

Which looks to me like this is all to do with the asset sale and nothing to do with the later IPO and general cash burn.

AKA the fakeover. Assuming that's the case, you have to credit Hector for letting this parcel of rogues all emerge and hang themselves.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Israel?

 

My bet would be Lebanon.      

[Footballfirst]

Douglas Fraser ?@BBCDouglasF 2h2 hours ago

#Rangers charges, under Criminal Justice + Licensing (Scotland) Act, s28(1) on 'serious organised crime': max 10 yr jail sentence

ex-ceo Charles Green conspiracy + fraud, also conspiracy under Companies Act 2006: no plea or declaration, bailed

ex-owner Craig Whyte + administrator David Whitehouse charged with conspiracy. Neither gave plea or declaration. Both bailed

[jambovambo]

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/live-proceedings-and-dead-money/#more-6755

[DETTY29]

They are some bunch some of the key players in Sons of Struth; Rangers First and RST.

 

If rather share a pint with Shooter and the Snake Oil man any day.

 

Only if it was a kitty though.

[RobNox]

They are some bunch some of the key players in Sons of Struth; Rangers First and RST.

 

If rather share a pint with Shooter and the Snake Oil man any day.

 

Only if it was a kitty though.

And you would have to hold the kitty!

[...a bit disco]

And you would have to hold the kitty!

 

The ****ers would probably throw it in the Clyde for looking like a tarrier.

[Drewboy]

If all of this does go to trial - I wonder where on earth they are going to hold it. Selecting an impartial jury will be something of an excercise as well!

Are complicated fraud cases now tried in front of 3 judges?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jammy T]

You'll be thinking of Chris Graham? He is involved in the Rangers Supporters Trust, and he got a place on the board. But then his old twitter posts got trawled through and the media kicked up a right stink about one written in aftermath of the terror shootings in Paris. He seems a smart guy, but his twitter posts make him out to be a bit OF A ****.

Fixed that for you buddy.

[FarmerTweedy]

If you believe this then you're wilfully ignorant. The arrests are in relation to the fraudulent purchase of Rangers, and everything that happened afterwards. The administrators have been arrested. What chance did Rangers fans have of purchasing the club? The Blue Knights were a consortium of fans who done everything that was required, and yet Duff and Phelps chose to go with an anonymous consortium. The whole thing was a stitch up.. I feel as though you know this but you choose to be blind to it so you can be a troll.

So you acknowledge that your club did die and the current club playing at ?1brox is a new club? You're just arguing that rangers fans couldn't do anything about it?