The Rangers soap opera goes on and on.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

This just gets better and better. I believe that the current investigations by plod relate to the purchase of the assets by sevco scotland(chuckles and the gang of spivs), when the admins(duff and duffer) made an agreement to sell the assets to sevco 5088(craigy's company), there appeared to be what is known as a "novation" to allow that to happen however, that may be what they are looking at, possibly also the actual price paid for the assets.

 

If it turns out that the assets where sold "incorrectly" shall we say, then ashleys security wont be worth the paper it's printed on wrt murray park, as sevco scotland may not have legally owned the property and therefore could not grant security over it. However, the car park and asbestos house are not in dispute as rifc bought them with the proceeds of the IPO.

 

They may also be investigating the IPO, as a lot of people got their fingers burned and the cost of that ipo(approx 5m) was very high.

 

Was thinking the same and if that were true then Ashley would most likely demand immediate and full payment of his ?5m loan.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

That wouldn't stop those shareholders from fighting it every step of the way, causing huge delays and legal expenses.

 

The point I'm trying to make is that IF there's fraud found, by far the simplest, cheapest and most practical way to resolve things in thecorporate world is with a financial settlement.

 

I'm not much of a gambler but I'm confident that the company and/or assets won't be returned to previous owners. Bit it'll be interesting to see how it pans out

 

And one of those shareholders just so happens to be a Billionaire whom the Rangers & the SFA shafted in favour of the lying King.

I wonder if that shareholder bares any grudges?

[Jambo 4 Ever]

Is David Murray going to be worried do you think?

[DETTY29]

Put this up before, but this is the senior BDO guy leading up the RFC Plc (IL) case.

 

And his biography.

 

MALCOLM COHEN

• A
• A

BIOGRAPHY:

Malcolm is a Licensed Insolvency Practitioner  with thirty years business restructuring and insolvency experience. Malcolm has extensive knowledge across a range of sectors including, financial services, property, professional services, shipping and not for profit. Malcolm leads the firms' National  Contentious Insolvency Team, this team is dedicated to recovering assets through litigation, cross border investigations and uncovering fraud. He also leads the firms' Corporate Streamlining Team restructuring

Edited September 1, 2015 by DETTY29

[jambovambo]

The Rangers fall / rise / fall / rise / fall story really is surely the most extraordinary story ... ever ? ... in the history of football ... for twists, turns, heroes, mainly villains, saviours, black hats, white hats ...

 

Extraordinary.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Prosecuting those involved in the fakeover would be the least they deserve.

[reaths17]

it is up to those signing contracts to do DUE DILIGENCE when buying something, investing in schemes. if your car is stolen and somebody switches the engine with an unregistered one then sells it, when caught after its use as evidence it will be returned to the original owner with any replacement parts fitted.

 

the only one to do DUE DILIGENCE in this shambolic mess, was Murray(who must have thought he was going down for tax dodging), he fukt up with the dodgy wage contracts and needed somebody to take the rap, "whyte and green" (how funny is that when talking about the rangers) have made the waters so muddy since they got in the door, that murray should be well safe but there will be a lot of worried people involved in this shambles biting heir nails, not least GASL, who was after all involved before tits up happened, maybe thats why he's got a fit back in the door, making sure that no evidence is left behind.

 

ogilvy as well, must be hiding behind the chair in which ever office he resides in these days. i find it hard to believe he knew nowt about what was going on from his position inside ibrox, the SPL and GFA.

 

all just my opinion of course but i canny see how somebody's no going to get burned in this when her majesty's debt collectors are involved.

[The Future's Maroon]

Are they deed again yet?!

 

No, bugger!

[269miles]

Is David Murray going to be worried do you think?

No.

 

He sold the club to Shooter (he knew his dad , they were in the same metals business).

 

Murray is clean. IMO.

 

Apart from the huge feckin tax bill, obviously.

[269miles]

it is up to those signing contracts to do DUE DILIGENCE when buying something, investing in schemes. if your car is stolen and somebody switches the engine with an unregistered one then sells it, when caught after its use as evidence it will be returned to the original owner with any replacement parts fitted.

 

the only one to do DUE DILIGENCE in this shambolic mess, was Murray(who must have thought he was going down for tax dodging), he fukt up with the dodgy wage contracts and needed somebody to take the rap, "whyte and green" (how funny is that when talking about the rangers) have made the waters so muddy since they got in the door, that murray should be well safe but there will be a lot of worried people involved in this shambles biting heir nails, not least GASL, who was after all involved before tits up happened, maybe thats why he's got a fit back in the door, making sure that no evidence is left behind.

 

ogilvy as well, must be hiding behind the chair in which ever office he resides in these days. i find it hard to believe he knew nowt about what was going on from his position inside ibrox, the SPL and GFA.

 

all just my opinion of course but i canny see how somebody's no going to get burned in this when her majesty's debt collectors are involved.

That's absolute bollocks. Murray said he would only sell to someone with Rangers (RIP) interests at heart. In the end he sold the club for a ?1 to a guy who the Daily edit said was a billionaire.

Murray didn't give a feck ; the club was all but in admin and being run by HBOS who wanted THEIR money back.

 

That's why he sold. To a complete charlatan. And he & HBOS must have known it.

Edited September 1, 2015 by 269miles

[Libertarian]

I just want to know when will they go bust again.

[reaths17]

That's absolute bollocks. Murray said he would only sell to someone with Rangers (RIP) interests at heart. In the end he sold the club for a ?1 to a guy who the Daily edit said was a billionaire.

Murray didn't give a feck ; the club was all but in admin and being run by HBOS who wanted THEIR money back.

 

That's why he sold. To a complete charlatan. And he & HBOS must have known it.

EH..........night on the sauce ?

 

murray knew the club was goosed, murray knew whyte was a shyster, murray didn't give a toss about the former huns, murray wanted a shambles after he left.

 

DUE DILIGENCE = making sure you get what your after and not the magic beans

 

surely clear enough for you now.

[Paolo]

EH..........night on the sauce ?

 

murray knew the club was goosed, murray knew whyte was a shyster, murray didn't give a toss about the former huns, murray wanted a shambles after he left.

 

DUE DILIGENCE = making sure you get what your after and not the magic beans

 

surely clear enough for you now.

Are you not agreeing with him?

[reaths17]

Are you not agreeing with him?

hahaha, I think he was agreeing with me but saying it was bollocks at the same time

 

he was quoting my post on the previous page.

Edited September 2, 2015 by reaths17

[Mysterion]

The court cases that are about to be initiated are going to be cracking for general gossip but I doubt it's going to tell us anything we didn't already know or suspect happened.

 

The only real thing that could be positive here is any move to address the who owns Ibrox / were the assets sold too cheaply situation.

 

If the current Rangers find themselves stripped of an asset or have to reach a compromise over it then it could really do a lot of damage.

[Unknown user]

The court cases that are about to be initiated are going to be cracking for general gossip but I doubt it's going to tell us anything we didn't already know or suspect happened.

 

The only real thing that could be positive here is any move to address the who owns Ibrox / were the assets sold too cheaply situation.

 

If the current Rangers find themselves stripped of an asset or have to reach a compromise over it then it could really do a lot of damage.

This is true, we already know that chuck's been recorded saying that he had agreed to buy rangers for craig Whyte but ripped him off in the end, for example

 

I'm sure there'll be some juicy titbits though

[JamboGuy]

Isn't there real danger of collateral damage for the man who has been involved at every single stage of this crimefest, our own, our very own "fatally compromised" Campbell Ogilvie?

[john brownlee]

I would like to know if the SFA will also be in court for their part it the activities .

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Walter Bishop]

So is the arrest of Green, Whyte etc a good thing for current Rangers? Alot of Rangers fans on social media seem to think its justice and that they are going to come out of this whole thing smelling of roses? 

[Unknown user]

So is the arrest of Green, Whyte etc a good thing for current Rangers? Alot of Rangers fans on social media seem to think its justice and that they are going to come out of this whole thing smelling of roses?

They still let their club die and aren't rangers any more, that shit never goes away

[tartofmidlothian]

The ins and outs of this saga are impossible to guess, but I suspect most PRM have little time for Green or Whyte and are happy to see what's going on. I doubt this will have much effect on current Rangers, but who knows?

[Boris]

So is the arrest of Green, Whyte etc a good thing for current Rangers? Alot of Rangers fans on social media seem to think its justice and that they are going to come out of this whole thing smelling of roses? 

 

This is the thing...

 

IF it is proven that the purchase from the liquidators was fraudulent, where does that leave the football club? If the purchase was a fraud, what does that make the application to the SFA?

 

Also, given Whyte was in charge when Oldco went bust, and it appears he was part of the set up for the Newco, doesn't that make it a Phoenix Company?  I'm sure HMRC will be watching with interest.

 

Now, I'm probably wrong on all of the above as there seems to have been so much to-ing and fro-ing with that company/club that it's impossible to say what is what right now!

[Jambo-Jimbo]

This is the thing...

 

IF it is proven that the purchase from the liquidators was fraudulent, where does that leave the football club? If the purchase was a fraud, what does that make the application to the SFA?

 

Also, given Whyte was in charge when Oldco went bust, and it appears he was part of the set up for the Newco, doesn't that make it a Phoenix Company?  I'm sure HMRC will be watching with interest.

 

Now, I'm probably wrong on all of the above as there seems to have been so much to-ing and fro-ing with that company/club that it's impossible to say what is what right now!

 

It has been rumoured for some time that HMRC have been watching events at Newco since they were formed.

If this were true then perhaps it might be because Mr. Whyte was rumoured to be behind both Oldco & Newco.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

The ins and outs of this saga are impossible to guess, but I suspect most PRM have little time for Green or Whyte and are happy to see what's going on. I doubt this will have much effect on current Rangers, but who knows?

 

Will these PRM be the same ones who lapped up every word both Whyte and Green fed them and attacked everybody and every organisation which said anything against either Whyte or Green.

 

Fickle lot PRM are.

[jambovambo]

is keeping an eye on things ...

 

 

alex thomson ?@alextomo 3m3 minutes ago

And so the Rangers saga winds up in court today as Craig Whyte, Charles Green and David Whitehouse are expected at Glasgow Sheriff Court

[Tasavallan]

I am totally bewildered with ti all.   If the 'new' owners of the current football club had not been linked with Oldco, as both King and Murray were, I'd have said that all the current shenanigans have no impact on the footballing side.    

[TriggersBroom]

They still let their club die and aren't rangers any more, that shit never goes away

If you believe this then you're wilfully ignorant. The arrests are in relation to the fraudulent purchase of Rangers, and everything that happened afterwards. The administrators have been arrested. What chance did Rangers fans have of purchasing the club? The Blue Knights were a consortium of fans who done everything that was required, and yet Duff and Phelps chose to go with an anonymous consortium. The whole thing was a stitch up.. I feel as though you know this but you choose to be blind to it so you can be a troll.

[tartofmidlothian]

Will these PRM be the same ones who lapped up every word both Whyte and Green fed them and attacked everybody and every organisation which said anything against either Whyte or Green.

 

Fickle lot PRM are.

 

Exactly the same ones.

 

And yes they are.

[Jambo 4 Ever]

If you believe this then you're wilfully ignorant. The arrests are in relation to the fraudulent purchase of Rangers, and everything that happened afterwards. The administrators have been arrested. What chance did Rangers fans have of purchasing the club? The Blue Knights were a consortium of fans who done everything that was required, and yet Duff and Phelps chose to go with an anonymous consortium. The whole thing was a stitch up.. I feel as though you know this but you choose to be blind to it so you can be a troll.

Were there any well known people / business men in either consortium?

Edited September 2, 2015 by Jambo_in_Hamilton

[SUTOL]

If you believe this then you're wilfully ignorant. The arrests are in relation to the fraudulent purchase of Rangers, and everything that happened afterwards. The administrators have been arrested. What chance did Rangers fans have of purchasing the club? The Blue Knights were a consortium of fans who done everything that was required, and yet Duff and Phelps chose to go with an anonymous consortium. The whole thing was a stitch up.. I feel as though you know this but you choose to be blind to it so you can be a troll.

I agree that the sale was a stitch up.

 

One that was lauded by Rangers fans as a good bit of business and along with the multimillion pound IPO would get them 'back to where they belong'.

 

Who knows what will be the outcome of these latest court cases, and who knows what implications it will have the current company playing football based at Ibrox.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

If you believe this then you're wilfully ignorant. The arrests are in relation to the fraudulent purchase of Rangers, and everything that happened afterwards. The administrators have been arrested. What chance did Rangers fans have of purchasing the club? The Blue Knights were a consortium of fans who done everything that was required, and yet Duff and Phelps chose to go with an anonymous consortium. The whole thing was a stitch up.. I feel as though you know this but you choose to be blind to it so you can be a troll.

This is correct but it doesn't mean the Blue Knights offered the best value for creditors. Liquidation of the assets and selling them off individually would more than likely have raised more money.

[Footballfirst]

If you believe this then you're wilfully ignorant. The arrests are in relation to the fraudulent purchase of Rangers, and everything that happened afterwards. The administrators have been arrested. What chance did Rangers fans have of purchasing the club? The Blue Knights were a consortium of fans who done everything that was required, and yet Duff and Phelps chose to go with an anonymous consortium. The whole thing was a stitch up.. I feel as though you know this but you choose to be blind to it so you can be a troll.

 

Now that legal action has been initiated, I'd be very careful not to make allegations of guilt in relation to either the 2011 purchase of the club, or the 2012 sale of the club's assets.

[BRAVEHEART1874]

The blue knights had nowhere near enough money and have you got a new head for that broom recently geezo even some sevco Huns going on about I hope the new Co and old Co now merge so they can pretend that there club never died leave that to Doncaster that's his job the only right thing that should come out of this should be sevco paying millions more for the stadium back to the creditors pot

[jambovambo]

The blue knights had nowhere near enough money and have you got a new head for that broom recently geezo even some sevco Huns going on about I hope the new Co and old Co now merge so they can pretend that there club never died leave that to Doncaster that's his job the only right thing that should come out of this should be sevco paying millions more for the stadium back to the creditors pot

... not now they'll not, given it's supposed to need ?ms to keep it standing ...

[Mysterion]

geezo even some sevco Huns going on about I hope the new Co and old Co now merge so they can pretend that there club never died

Absolutely no requirement to merge them - their position has always been clear despite all our laughing at them.

[Unknown user]

If you believe this then you're wilfully ignorant. The arrests are in relation to the fraudulent purchase of Rangers, and everything that happened afterwards. The administrators have been arrested. What chance did Rangers fans have of purchasing the club? The Blue Knights were a consortium of fans who done everything that was required, and yet Duff and Phelps chose to go with an anonymous consortium. The whole thing was a stitch up.. I feel as though you know this but you choose to be blind to it so you can be a troll.

And if you think I was doing anything other than quoting the songs that will be gleefully sung at them from now until eternity, you're not very bright

[TriggersBroom]

This is correct but it doesn't mean the Blue Knights offered the best value for creditors. Liquidation of the assets and selling them off individually would more than likely have raised more money.

Aye, but at that point the talk was all about achieving a CVA. The whole 'phoenix company' thing had been mentioned by commentators but not by the actual consortium bidders. 

 

I imagine the 2 consortiums were pretty much the same in terms of value to creditors. The big difference was The Blue Knights was credible and had done weeks of due diligence. They had nothing to hide. Then there was Greens consortium, and nobody knew anything about them.

 

The Blue Knights had a genuine intention to achieve a CVA, whereas (with the benefit of hindsight) Green had absolutely no intention of getting a CVA.  

[The Old Tolbooth]

He he he! Is this the new directors box?

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Edited September 2, 2015 by johnmitchell

[Boris]

Aye, but at that point the talk was all about achieving a CVA. The whole 'phoenix company' thing had been mentioned by commentators but not by the actual consortium bidders. 

 

I imagine the 2 consortiums were pretty much the same in terms of value to creditors. The big difference was The Blue Knights was credible and had done weeks of due diligence. They had nothing to hide. Then there was Greens consortium, and nobody knew anything about them.

 

The Blue Knights had a genuine intention to achieve a CVA, whereas (with the benefit of hindsight) Green had absolutely no intention of getting a CVA.  

 

But the blue Knights would still have failed to gain a CVA, given HMRC are the largest creditor and would not accept a CVA.  Liquidation would still have happened.

[skinnybob72]

Were there any other offers for the assets before they were sold to Green / Whyte / Whoever for ?5.5m? If that was the only offer on the table then ?5.5m is what they were worth - regardless of what we think.

[Unknown user]

Were there any other offers for the assets before they were sold to Green / Whyte / Whoever for ?5.5m? If that was the only offer on the table then ?5.5m is what they were worth - regardless of what we think.

But it's not like the assets could only be sold as a package.

There was no legal reason to prevent them being split up and sold piecemeal to get the maximum amount for creditors - the ground Ibrox is on has to be worth that (or not far off it) alone

 

In fact, the emphasis SHOULD have been on maximum amount going tothe creditors, not chuck's plan to keep rangers going imo

Edited September 2, 2015 by Smithee

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Aye, but at that point the talk was all about achieving a CVA. The whole 'phoenix company' thing had been mentioned by commentators but not by the actual consortium bidders. 

 

I imagine the 2 consortiums were pretty much the same in terms of value to creditors. The big difference was The Blue Knights was credible and had done weeks of due diligence. They had nothing to hide. Then there was Greens consortium, and nobody knew anything about them.

 

The Blue Knights had a genuine intention to achieve a CVA, whereas (with the benefit of hindsight) Green had absolutely no intention of getting a CVA.  

 

Dave King also had no intention of supporting a CVA either, in fact he publicly urged all creditors to vote against a CVA knowing only full well that liquidation would follow.

[Paolo]

But the blue Knights would still have failed to gain a CVA, given HMRC are the largest creditor and would not accept a CVA. Liquidation would still have happened.

Correct. They always reject CVAs, as they did, an we went into admin.

[Don Dan]

But the blue Knights would still have failed to gain a CVA, given HMRC are the largest creditor and would not accept a CVA.  Liquidation would still have happened.

What you've highlighted Boris is obvious to all except those who deny Rangers were liquidated and still exist. Triggersbroom is just like that other apologist who used to argue till he was blue in the face that nothing had changed at Rangers.

[reaths17]

its the administrators responsibility to get the best deal for the creditors, selling the assets lock stock n barrel to the 1st offer, without trying to see if there were better ways of gaining a bigger pot would probably be why whitehouse has been implicated.

[OmiyaHearts]

Correct. They always reject CVAs, as they did, an we went into admin.

They don't always reject CVA's. Only where there has been evidence of tax avoidance ir deliberate measures to avoid paying tax.

[Unknown user]

They don't always reject CVA's. Only where there has been evidence of tax avoidance ir deliberate measures to avoid paying tax.

Indeed, but it's a moot point as both hearts and rangers were judged to have avoided paying tax.

[Hagar the Horrible]

Just to chuck in another bizaar scenario, the oldco are not yet liquidated and still hold the registration for Rangers Football club (the club), the newco (the company) have a new registration for the new football club in disguise as the old club.  if the assets are in dispute then so should the registration, if they are the same football club then MA's claim over the badge and the name will still be valid?   if its not and there is even a sniff of the ownership of all it component parts, then as a company the newco is worthless, and I would guess MA and the directers will ask for their respective loans back while there is season ticket money in the bank?

 

This will drag on for years, but appart from who owns the Big Hoose?  who actually has a claim to what?   Still it might be nothing to see here and we all move on?  The fans might be claiming a pyrrhic victory, but the lawyers are the real and only winners in this.

[Footballfirst]

D&P's Paul Clark now added to those detained in this phase of investigations.

[Don Dan]

BBC News at 1 reporting on the Rangers shenanigans, nice to see but despite the facts of Rangers demise been known for 3 years and reams of printed news about them they still can't make an accurate report on the past. This makes any chance of a casual viewer understanding what happened or is happening ny impossible.

It surprises me that these hacks actually get paid for reporting inaccurate items.