Das Root Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 yes No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GhostHunter Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I'm going on the record here - I can see Newhun Govan going into the 3rd division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
super_vlad Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Breaking news: HM Revenue and Customs are applying for a court-appointed administrator at Rangers. More here: http://bit.ly/zEe846 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerd Muller Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Adrian Durham mentioned on Talksport last night that the SPL should do everything in their power to help the old firm because basically that was all Scottish football is. What a complete welt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartsfc_fan Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 yes Did the guy on talksport say anything else about Hearts? He's probably putting 2 and 2 together that the player are due to be paid on Thursday along with our tax bill that is owed around the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Looks like admin is a definite. even if Rangers dont want it now HMRC do, and they want it on their terms, which would be scary, if it wasn't frankly hilarious........................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdl2002 Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I'm going on the record here - I can see Newhun Govan going into the 3rd division. it looks increasingly likely. Wish they had cameras at court of session............ I can hardly hide my joy at the development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmaroon Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Memo to the Orcs - Her Majesty's Revenue & Customs! God save the Queen!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Tolbooth Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I admit it - I chortled out loud. www.kerrydalestreet.co.uk Funny. I have to admit that at first I was like And then I noticed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidelight Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I'm hoping another reason that HMRC refuse to do a deal on CVA is Whyte's track record. Surely the tax man would not want to be seen making arrangements that benefit someone who has been banned from being a director and had his ability to tell the truth questioned by two judges on two different occasions. Is CW the Gotham City fall guy, a puppet, brought in to take the heat albeit for a large pay off? when it became clear that HMRC were about to facilitate a very serious investigation in to alleged tax liability ? Is it possible that the ?Joker? (identity cannot be revealed) was called in and asked to come up with the master plan we see unfolding before our eyes? If rangers are found to be ?liable? ? Will the scenario be deemed to have been successful if HMRC receive only a small fraction of the alleged concluded figure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davie1980 Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 i don't see the benefit to the HMRC of putting rangers into administration surely an administrators job is to ensure it gets the best possible deal to avoid the damage to the club in administration. it would ask the hmrc to take a masive cut in what is owed to them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_jailer Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Did the guy on talksport say anything else about Hearts? He's probably putting 2 and 2 together that the player are due to be paid on Thursday along with our tax bill that is owed around the same time. the only thing he said was hearts are in big trouble to and bad news to come out soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dc-jambo Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Memo to the Orcs - Her Majesty's Revenue & Customs! God save the Queen!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartsfc_fan Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 the only thing he said was hearts are in big trouble to and bad news to come out soon oh ffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasman Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 That is great news.......... Hopefully this will stop the Phoenix from the flames type scenario that Mr Whyte has in mind. The biggest question will be how the SPL appease the rest of the league by allowing Rangers 2012 back into the SPL at the 1st time of asking ???? Because they will............ This is actually a "no win" situation for Rangers. From a football perspective they want to try to prove that NewCo is the same Club, try to transfer player registrations (as Parma) and play at Ibrox. From a legal perspective HMRC will see that for what it is, a phoenix company, and chase the NewCo for every last penny owed. Sadly, I agree that Rangers NewCo may well get straight back into the SPL, if the decision is up to the SPL. One positive even then though, would be that they would be banned from Europe for three years (a UEFA rule, so it will happen) and that they will be starting with no players. I'm still hopeful that HMRC may make it so difficult and expensive, that Rangers / Craig Whyte may not be able to do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 It is the players registrations that would revert to the SPL. In Administration the players contracts continue as before with the Administrator paying the wages. If there is not enough money to pay all the players then the Administrator can seek to sell them (the players wouldn't be able to play for another team until the transfer window reopens), or release them from their contracts (effectively making them redundant). If it is the latter, then the players become free agents and able to negotiate their own deal with a new club, but would come up against the same problem of not being able to play for two different clubs within the period beween two transfer windows (that's my understanding). In a liquidation scenario any player contracts would be null and void with their registrations going to the SPL. The players would be free agents as in the redundancy scenario above. Fair point. I meant the registrations. The contracts can't be owned by Whyte or anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdl2002 Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 i don't see the benefit to the HMRC of putting rangers into administration surely an administrators job is to ensure it gets the best possible deal to avoid the damage to the club in administration. it would ask the hmrc to take a masive cut in what is owed to them may well be a bit of posturing but consider that CW stated last night that it was not inevitable that they would go into administration. If HMRC would "see sense" over the tax case. less than 24 hours later HMRC say enough is enough, we will apply to have them put into administration. Kind of taking it out of CW hands which if nothing else will surely piss him off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad-Stupid Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 the only thing he said was hearts are in big trouble to and bad news to come out soon Nothing we dont already know tbf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasman Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Memo to the Orcs - Her Majesty's Revenue & Customs! God save the Queen!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 And there we have it. HMRC ready to rock and roll. Naive of Whyte to think he could call the shots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munch Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Fair point. I meant the registrations. The contracts can't be owned by Whyte or anyone else. Latest on SSN HMRC Have now moved to appoint there own Administrators to handle the case what does this mean ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwaysinourshadows Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 the only thing he said was hearts are in big trouble to and bad news to come out soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovecraft Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Things have somehow just managed to get even better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Latest on SSN HMRC Have now moved to appoint there own Administrators to handle the case what does this mean ? It means that, if HMRC succeed, Whyte can't appoint his own administrator and do a prepack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad-Stupid Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 "Who's calling the shots Mr Whyte?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Winchester Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 i don't see the benefit to the HMRC of putting rangers into administration surely an administrators job is to ensure it gets the best possible deal to avoid the damage to the club in administration. it would ask the hmrc to take a masive cut in what is owed to them HMRC are reacting to Rangers intent. They know they're not going to see all the money. They're trying to pre-empt Rangers move for a pre-pack by forcing a court appointed administrator as opposed to one selected by Craig Whyte. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovecraft Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 It means that, if HMRC succeed, Whyte can't appoint his own administrator and do a prepack. Yep, looks like HMRC are going for the kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Tolbooth Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 The plot thickens further, it now looks like SDM is questioning through his lawyers whether Whyte was fit and proper enough to take over Rangers in the first place, even although the Ticketus deal was concluded a month before the takeover, what a fekkin mess! http://leggoland2.blogspot.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo66 Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 i don't see the benefit to the HMRC of putting rangers into administration surely an administrators job is to ensure it gets the best possible deal to avoid the damage to the club in administration. it would ask the hmrc to take a masive cut in what is owed to them The difference is that HMRC do not necessarily want Rangers to go into liquidation. If that happens, the value of their players is nil since they become the "property" of the SPL. In administration, the administrator is in a position to sell players, albeit at fire sale prices. As far as HMRC is concerned, being able to sell Rangers playing staff for ?10-20m is a lot better than liquidation, as they will get more money. I'm not sure if having your own administrator appointed gives you more control over things, but I imagine that it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munch Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 The plot thickens further, it now looks like SDM is questioning through his lawyers whether Whyte was fit and proper enough to take over Rangers in the first place, even although the Ticketus deal was concluded a month before the takeover, what a fekkin mess! http://leggoland2.blogspot.com/ This story is growing arms and legs now i smell a rat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Remember that HMRC seeking to appoint an administrator now is nothing to do with the "big" tax case, as the FTT hasn't come to a decision as yet. As with Hearts, this is more to do with non payment of PAYE, NIC and VAT. I think this is HMRC playing hardball and making a statement that there will be no negotiations about a settlement. This is a very strong message that is being sent out to all football clubs that HMRC are going to make an example of RFC and that other chairmen better beware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovecraft Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 This story is growing arms and legs now i smell a rat. Clutching at straws I'm glad to say. Some Rangers fans are still trying to paint Murray as a good guy, rather than the one that shafted them in the first place. I'm pretty sure Murray's company is due the bank something stupid like 700 Million quid, so there is no chance they would allow him to buy back Rangers and essentially piss away upwards of ?50M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovecraft Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Remember that HMRC seeking to appoint an administrator now is nothing to do with the "big" tax case, as the FTT hasn't come to a decision as yet. As with Hearts, this is more to do with non payment of PAYE, NIC and VAT. I think this is HMRC playing hardball and making a statement that there will be no negotiations about a settlement. This is a very strong message that is being sent out to all football clubs that HMRC are going to make an example of RFC and that other chairmen better beware. That's the way I see it. Even if HMRC don't manage to get all the cash back they are due, it looks like they are sending a clear message that you can't just go for a pre-pack to avoid all the money due, by basically making an example of Rangers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I think this is HMRC playing hardball and making a statement that there will be no negotiations about a settlement. This is a very strong message that is being sent out to all football clubs that HMRC are going to make an example of RFC and that other chairmen better beware. HMRC are going to make sure that any buyer of the club is still subject to the ?50m+ tax bill. In other words, they're going to make it very difficult for anyone (other than the filthy rich) to justify buying RFC. You'd have to be mental to take on a company with that sort of liability in the post. The worst-case scenario is that Rangers go into liquidation and HMRC get nothing but my understanding is that they'd rather see that happen than Rangers settle (or avoid) their tax bill for a few pence in the pound and then carry on as before. The Revenue are sick to death of clubs returning to good health after leaving big tax bills unpaid. Rangers are in big trouble here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munch Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 That's the way I see it. Even if HMRC don't manage to get all the cash back they are due, it looks like they are sending a clear message that you can't just go for a pre-pack to avoid all the money due, by basically making an example of Rangers. Its obvious that this Whyte character is a snake he knows his way round the administration game and it appears he is one step ahead at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMc Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 The plot thickens further, it now looks like SDM is questioning through his lawyers whether Whyte was fit and proper enough to take over Rangers in the first place, even although the Ticketus deal was concluded a month before the takeover, what a fekkin mess! http://leggoland2.blogspot.com/ The guy on that link thinks Lloyds would worry about looking bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liam11 Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 .....and we play rangers in 2/3 weeks at ibrox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovecraft Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Its obvious that this Whyte character is a snake he knows his way round the administration game and it appears he is one step ahead at the moment. Possibly, but I don't think for one second that he thought HMRC would force them into admin before the outcome of the big tax case. I think it is more likely that he is just covering himself as the main creditor, and that after everything is done, he at least doesn't lose any money over the whole deal. I can honestly see him getting another directorship ban after all of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the windae cleaner Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 this my friends could be the final nail in the coffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jezza Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Possibly, but I don't think for one second that he thought HMRC would force them into admin before the outcome of the big tax case. I think it is more likely that he is just covering himself as the main creditor, and that after everything is done, he at least doesn't lose any money over the whole deal. I can honestly see him getting another directorship ban after all of this. Lets hope so - and a knighthood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovecraft Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 .....and we play rangers in 2/3 weeks at ibrox. I doubt we will get our allocation cut. Probably give us the option of another 20,000 tickets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad-Stupid Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 .....and we play rangers in 2/3 weeks at ibrox. If we're both still in business Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H.A.N.S Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 This may have been covered in the 19 pages but I am not reading through it all so, can anyone tell me why HMRC are pressing for administration and not a winding up order? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dobmisterdobster Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Adrian Durham mentioned on Talksport last night that the SPL should do everything in their power to help the old firm because basically that was all Scottish football is. What a complete welt. Adrian Durham is a stupid little kid. Never liked him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ritchies75 Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Hearing in court 7 at Court of Session is just about to start Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 This may have been covered in the 19 pages but I am not reading through it all so, can anyone tell me why HMRC are pressing for administration and not a winding up order? I think, could be wrong, but I think it's to prevent Rangers going into admin themselves and as such getting rid of assets so HMRC can't get hold of them once the tax bill becomes due. If the tax bill was known and owed to HMRC, then they would issue a winding up order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovecraft Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) This may have been covered in the 19 pages but I am not reading through it all so, can anyone tell me why HMRC are pressing for administration and not a winding up order? I'm guessing at this stage that HMRC don't actually want to kill off Rangers until they put them in admin and have a look at where the assets and money are. Edited February 14, 2012 by Lovecraft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blairdin Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 This may have been covered in the 19 pages but I am not reading through it all so, can anyone tell me why HMRC are pressing for administration and not a winding up order? If my layperson reading of this is correct, if they put Rankgers in administration with an administrator of their choice, they can sell the clubs assets for the maximum amount they can before th company is wound up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ritchies75 Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 This may have been covered in the 19 pages but I am not reading through it all so, can anyone tell me why HMRC are pressing for administration and not a winding up order? They want to appoint their own administrator for Rangers and prevent Whyte appointing his. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 This may have been covered in the 19 pages but I am not reading through it all so, can anyone tell me why HMRC are pressing for administration and not a winding up order? As the FTT has yet to rule, there should currently be enough assets to pay HMRC what they are due in late payments of PAYE, NIC and VAT. They also want to control the Administration process and prevent CW from appointing his own receiver/administrator. A liquidator will follow once the FTT decision comes out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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