So ?50 million we are worth apparently

[rudi]

Lets try and put some local logic into the Club being worth ?50m and the chances of attracting buyers.

 

You have a Edinburgh city Centre Flat worth a valuers survey of ?250,000

 

Option 1 - You put the property on the market at fixed price of ?750,000 with the hope you can get XYZ.( I have taken the liberty of valuing HMFC at ?15m)

 

Option 2 - You put your property on the market for offers over ?200,000

 

Which option would attract the most interest and the possibility of negotiation.

Erm,let me think,option 1,no 2,ach can you not have an option 3 - I don't know.

[redm]

redm,he has been very critical of Scottish football for a long time,he blamed everyone he could because he ballsed up,now after telling all and sundry how BAD the product it he's now trying to sell on one of the major components of the very thing he has said is bad,not very good business strategy is it?

 

I'm also at a complete loss as to why he constantly wanted some kind of war of words with the press when we all know that there would only be one winner,vlad seemed to take great pride in alienating himself(and Hearts at times) with anyone whose opinion differed from his ideology (once again,not a very good business strategy)he could have had the business community of Edinburgh on his side if he had been a bit less of a megalomaniac,but no,it was his way or none.

 

See, this is where you and I are going to differ wildly and it just becomes 'another Vlad debate'. I think you have an impossibly narrow minded perspective when it comes to Vlad's tenure and the outside influences that have affected things at Hearts. I can't really respond to your comments when you refuse to consider that anything/anyone OTHER than Vlad has been at the root of some of the problems we've had to endure. He's perfectly right to be critical of Scottish football, I don't know many people involved in it or who support it who don't have some sort of criticism to offer about it at the moment...it IS in a bit of a sorry state and he has just as much right (if not more) than most to say his piece on that. Everyone knows it's screwed and most understand the reasons why, so Vlad saying it out loud to a Russian news agency isn't going to change anything on that front. An infinitely worse business strategy would be to insist the car you're selling is in fine working order when it's plain to anyone with eyes that it has no wheels, the bumper is dented and the windows are all smashed...no? It's damaged, but probably fixable...

 

 

As for the press thing. I can see both sides of that argument, I suppose. At times I've supported his stance and at others I've been left feeling a little uncomfortable. I think what you maybe need to remember here is that apparently, these press related decisions weren't all made or influenced by Vlad, some came from David Southern. There is maybe more of a consensus on that issue within Tynecastle (and they know the ins and outs of any skulduggery far more than you or I do) than you think there is.

 

 

[Rocky jamboa]

Debt when he arrived about ?20m. Debt now ?35m. Debt for equity swaps and debt forgiveness. ?30m. Total additioon debt created ?45m. Debt is created by spending money above income. The gap between income and expenditure has been met by companies owned and/or controlled bby Vlad. So the answer is ?45m. Near as makes no difference.

 

 

Nonsense! The ?15m increase in debt has arisen due to the defecit between income and outgoings.

[Jammy T]

This is basic business negotiation at work.

 

Vlad demands a huge price for the club, a buyer offers considerably less and they haggle until they meet in the middle.

 

The middle is where Vlad wanted to be all along.

 

That's why he's rich.

 

Its not really though is it.

 

I've got a can of coke, it's opened a bit flat and isnt cold. You're a bit thirsty

 

I'll sell this can to you for a tenner. You offer 1p.

 

Are you going to buy the can of coke from me for ?5?

[Vlad-Stupid]

Its not really though is it.

 

I've got a can of coke, it's opened a bit flat and isnt cold. You're a bit thirsty

 

I'll sell this can to you for a tenner. You offer 1p.

 

Are you going to buy the can of coke from me for ?5?

 

 

Not a great analogy when a can is only worth 70p tops

[Diego10]

Debt when he arrived about ?20m. Debt now ?35m. Debt for equity swaps and debt forgiveness. ?30m. Total additioon debt created ?45m. Debt is created by spending money above income. The gap between income and expenditure has been met by companies owned and/or controlled bby Vlad. So the answer is ?45m. Near as makes no difference.

although, a fair percentage of the additional debt (not sure exactly how much, don't have the figures to hand) has been accrued as interest due on the debts to UBIG. so debt has gone up by that amount with no expenditure by Romanov.

[Diego10]

 

Not a great analogy when a can is only worth 70p tops

depends on teh circumstance. if you're standing in a desert with no other liquid about, ot's worth a lot more than 70p. If you're outside a shop selling it at 50p, it's worth nearer the 1.

 

In Romanov's case, I think it's fair to say it's no a seller's market.

[redm]

Its not really though is it.

 

I've got a can of coke, it's opened a bit flat and isnt cold. You're a bit thirsty

 

I'll sell this can to you for a tenner. You offer 1p.

 

Are you going to buy the can of coke from me for ?5?

 

Ooh, hello there stranger. Welcome back...

[The Mighty Thor]

Lets try and put some local logic into the Club being worth ?50m and the chances of attracting buyers.

 

You have a Edinburgh city Centre Flat worth a valuers survey of ?250,000

 

Option 1 - You put the property on the market at fixed price of ?750,000 with the hope you can get XYZ.( I have taken the liberty of valuing HMFC at ?15m)

 

Option 2 - You put your property on the market for offers over ?200,000

 

Which option would attract the most interest and the possibility of negotiation.

 

 

Good analogy.

 

I wonder if any of the financial wizards (who most likely reside in their Ma's back-bedroom) interpret that little nugget of commerce.

[rudi]

See, this is where you and I are going to differ wildly and it just becomes 'another Vlad debate'. I think you have an impossibly narrow minded perspective when it comes to Vlad's tenure and the outside influences that have affected things at Hearts. I can't really respond to your comments when you refuse to consider that anything/anyone OTHER than Vlad has been at the root of some of the problems we've had to endure. He's perfectly right to be critical of Scottish football, I don't know many people involved in it or who support it who don't have some sort of criticism to offer about it at the moment...it IS in a bit of a sorry state and he has just as much right (if not more) than most to say his piece on that. Everyone knows it's screwed and most understand the reasons why, so Vlad saying it out loud to a Russian news agency isn't going to change anything on that front. An infinitely worse business strategy would be to insist the car you're selling is in fine working order when it's plain to anyone with eyes that it has no wheels, the bumper is dented and the windows are all smashed...no? It's damaged, but probably fixable...

 

 

As for the press thing. I can see both sides of that argument, I suppose. At times I've supported his stance and at others I've been left feeling a little uncomfortable. I think what you maybe need to remember here is that apparently, these press related decisions weren't all made or influenced by Vlad, some came from David Southern. There is maybe more of a consensus on that issue within Tynecastle (and they know the ins and outs of any skulduggery far more than you or I do) than you think there is.

redm,I know full well that football can be won or lost because of a refs decision (not just in Scotland),but why no earth did he ALWAYS blame others for our short comings,christ he's moved on to blood Rupert Murdoch now,a part form some Hearts fans everyone in Scottish football is sick of his bleating about "everyone is out to get us" crap,he's made huge mistakes in his mismanagement of Hearts and still blames any one who moves,oh and this isn't just a Scottish football thing either the Lithuanian FA got it as did the Lithuanian netball league.

 

 

Anyway,for me I hope he gets his money and goes as quick as possible,I for one won't miss him.

[Tiberius Stinkfinger]

If Romanov & UBIG agree then I think Hearts will change ownership for a deal that values HMFC somewhere between ?30M and ?35M ......

 

payable in installments

 

 

 

Pish, nobody in there right mind will be able to cobble together that amount of money for Hearts, you should also add another ?10M onto that figure for justifiable operating costs.

 

Its not just a case of giving Mr Romanov ?30M and away he goes and you have a football club, its a club thats leaking money like a sieve with little or no chance of ever being able to stand of its own to feet in a stadium that is not fit for purpose.

 

Vlad is going nowhere.............................. I hope.

[Craigieboy]

"Every time they just ask for money, and every time I promise not to give more, then they promise to make it themselves."

 

 

You gave the approval for all the signings which meant we are living outwith our means, you fool. These have to be paid for. No?

 

[MC_Trotski]

The guy is a genius. He's not paid the players for nearly a week and all anyone is talking about is that Hearts are for sale, that the club is now worth ?50m and where has the ?200m come from.

 

And to think some folk call him mad.

[Charlie-Brown]

Good analogy.

 

I wonder if any of the financial wizards (who most likely reside in their Ma's back-bedroom) interpret that little nugget of commerce.

 

Mr Thor I think we can boil it down to a few key essentials;

 

1. Mr Romanov & UBIG would like to get the maximum amount of money back they possibly can.

2. It's very unlikely that anybody has a decent big wedge to offer and convince Romanov to sell them the whole ranch and head of into the sunset.

3. Somebody therefore will have to offer Mr Romanov & UBIG a deal that see's them get the majority of their money back over time in exchange for the keys to Tynecastle and they surrender any onwership or control of the football club meantime.

[Francis Albert]

although, a fair percentage of the additional debt (not sure exactly how much, don't have the figures to hand) has been accrued as interest due on the debts to UBIG. so debt has gone up by that amount with no expenditure by Romanov.

 

Fair point, though you could argue that the money he invested in Hearts coould have attracted interest elsewhere.

 

But say with an average debt of ?30m and interest rates of 5% to 10%, (from memory it was nearer the bottom of that range) that knocks my ?45m down to ?30m to ?37.5m. It hardly matters, he has spent tens of millions.

[The Mighty Thor]

Mr Thor I think we can boil it down to a few key essentials;

 

1. Mr Romanov & UBIG would like to get the maximum amount of money back they possibly can.

2. It's very unlikely that anybody has a decent big wedge to offer and convince Romanov to sell them the whole ranch and head of into the sunset.

3. Somebody therefore will have to offer Mr Romanov & UBIG a deal that see's them get the majority of their money back over time in exchange for the keys to Tynecastle and they surrender any onwership or control of the football club meantime.

 

I'm fine with the basics of it Charlie.

 

HMFC is not worth ?50m regardless of whether that is a masterful opening gambit in a commercial negotiation or the ramblings of a mitty-esque buffoon.

[Zerothehero]

If he's spent 200 million quid on us and we're in this state he's the worst business man in the world. As usual though, his words are essentially meaningless and everyone concerned will make it mean whatever they want it to.

 

At the end of the day he's only answerable to himself and has spent Roman's inheritance on it. No wonder RR always looks so miserable.

[Charlie-Brown]

Pish, nobody in there right mind will be able to cobble together that amount of money for Hearts, you should also add another ?10M onto that figure for justifiable operating costs.

 

Its not just a case of giving Mr Romanov ?30M and away he goes and you have a football club, its a club thats leaking money like a sieve with little or no chance of ever being able to stand of its own to feet in a stadium that is not fit for purpose.

 

Vlad is going nowhere.............................. I hope.

 

Thinking out loud but here's my predictions of what seems likely imo.

 

1. Costs are slashed drastically and people's favourite players leave but the club stops bleeding money and is able to get closer to balancing operating costs & wages with income. HMFC are run on a far more prudent and cost effective basis going forward.

 

2. Romanov gets offered a few million for his shares but probably not more than the cost he paid to acquire his 85% take-over.

 

3. UBIG get offered a deal to lease-back the stadium that will repay the ?30M debt (capital) over approx 20 years.

 

4. UBIG retain secured creditor status with the underlying value of Tynecastle as security on their debt (basically the same position as now).

 

5. Probably some future contribution from fans is sought to boost the clubs income and if possible & feasible to complete Tynecastle stadium as it was originally intended and designed.

 

6. New stadium plans are shelved unless & until conditions dramatically improve or Tynecastle cannot be completed or made safe for long term use and we have to vacate to elsewhere meantime.(probably Murrayfield)

 

The new owners take on all the risk of running the football club and being able to make UBIG's payments each season whilst keeping the fans happy & engaged.

[Charlie-Brown]

double post.

[Francis Albert]

Lets try and put some local logic into the Club being worth ?50m and the chances of attracting buyers.

 

You have a Edinburgh city Centre Flat worth a valuers survey of ?250,000

 

Option 1 - You put the property on the market at fixed price of ?750,000 with the hope you can get XYZ.( I have taken the liberty of valuing HMFC at ?15m)

 

Option 2 - You put your property on the market for offers over ?200,000

 

Which option would attract the most interest and the possibility of negotiation.

 

The market for flats in central Edinburgh is vastly more liquid than the market for football clubs.

 

And if in your analogy you put it on the market at ?750,000 with the hope of getting XYZ, it's not a fixed price.

 

PS and your option 2 effectively rules out the possibility of some rich nutter who has always wanted a football club paying way over the odds.

[redm]

redm,I know full well that football can be won or lost because of a refs decision (not just in Scotland),but why no earth did he ALWAYS blame others for our short comings,christ he's moved on to blood Rupert Murdoch now,a part form some Hearts fans everyone in Scottish football is sick of his bleating about "everyone is out to get us" crap,he's made huge mistakes in his mismanagement of Hearts and still blames any one who moves,oh and this isn't just a Scottish football thing either the Lithuanian FA got it as did the Lithuanian netball league.

 

 

Anyway,for me I hope he gets his money and goes as quick as possible,I for one won't miss him.

 

Not everything is about the SFA, though. I know that stuff gets you all twitchy but his comments are just as much about the bigger picture and general state of the game as they are about SFA specific issues that he has or refereeing incompetence. As for the Murdoch thing, I'm pretty sure most will just see that as him putting his media troubles into context by making current and topical references... Maybe a bit clunky but then, a lot of things are when your every word is subject to a bit of interpretive translation....

 

As for having made mistakes, of course he has. You won't find many people who say anything different. But most will also acknowledge the considerable number of positive things that he has done in his time at Hearts. You should be careful what you wish for re: Vlad upping and leaving...especially when you have no idea into whose hands we might fall or whether or not they will have either the same hopes for Hearts OR the funds to support us and rescue the situation if they completely screw it up. The idea that "it can't get worse" is just utterly, ridiculously, staggeringly, gobsmackingly naive.

 

 

 

 

 

[hawaii]

Football owners tend to issue some brilliant quotes when they are selling the club. Remember Mental Murray's promise when he put Rangers up for sale? That quote to sell to someone Rangers Minded lasted right up until Lloyds Bank told him to accept Whyte's offer.

 

Anyone who falls for Vlad's chat about us being worth ?50m needs to step away from the computer and do something more suited to their intellect, like watch Jeremy Kyle.

[jambo_74]

Assets

Ground / stadium - maybe ?10-12m

Playing squad - maybe ?5-8m

Goodwill / brand etc - maybe ?5m

 

Liabilities

Debt - ?35m

 

It's practically impossible to justify a valuation greater than nil.

 

If you work out the cost of each player based on a total valuation of ?5,000,000 and a first team squad of 22, the average individual players value would be around ?225,000. That seems on the low side. Even at ?8m, the individual cost would be around ?360,000. Low IMHO.

[Colonel Kurtz]

redm,I know full well that football can be won or lost because of a refs decision (not just in Scotland),but why no earth did he ALWAYS blame others for our short comings,christ he's moved on to blood Rupert Murdoch now,a part form some Hearts fans everyone in Scottish football is sick of his bleating about "everyone is out to get us" crap,he's made huge mistakes in his mismanagement of Hearts and still blames any one who moves,oh and this isn't just a Scottish football thing either the Lithuanian FA got it as did the Lithuanian netball league.

 

 

Anyway,for me I hope he gets his money and goes as quick as possible,I for one won't miss him.

Romanov is a shyster.

His idiot son told shareholders at an AGM who questioned large payments made to Kaunus ,that it was "none of their business".

DFE ...Divert Funds Elsewhere.

[Walter Bishop]

Mate, it doesn't need Carol vorderman to work out that we were ?20m or so in debt when he took over, ?35m in debt now, despite receiving around ?15m in from transfer fees and paying out ?875k (beslija - the only one I can think of). Not sure if that's what your implying.

 

How much do you think he's put in?

x 200 million

[hmfc1440]

Thinking out loud but here's my predictions of what seems likely imo.

 

1. Costs are slashed drastically and people's favourite players leave but the club stops bleeding money and is able to get closer to balancing operating costs & wages with income. HMFC are run on a far more prudent and cost effective basis going forward.

 

2. Romanov gets offered a few million for his shares but probably not more than the cost he paid to acquire his 85% take-over.

 

3. UBIG get offered a deal to lease-back the stadium that will repay the ?30M debt (capital) over approx 20 years.

 

4. UBIG retain secured creditor status with the underlying value of Tynecastle as security on their debt (basically the same position as now).

 

5. Probably some future contribution from fans is sought to boost the clubs income and if possible & feasible to complete Tynecastle stadium as it was originally intended and designed.

 

6. New stadium plans are shelved unless & until conditions dramatically improve or Tynecastle cannot be completed or made safe for long term use and we have to vacate to elsewhere meantime.(probably Murrayfield)

 

The new owners take on all the risk of running the football club and being able to make UBIG's payments each season whilst keeping the fans happy & engaged.

 

 

On UBIG's continued involvement I just get the feeling that they won't want to be in the UK for that long.

[Boris]

If you work out the cost of each player based on a total valuation of ?5,000,000 and a first team squad of 22, the average individual players value would be around ?225,000. That seems on the low side. Even at ?8m, the individual cost would be around ?360,000. Low IMHO.

 

Really?

 

I can't think of that many players we have that would be worth over ?250,000.

[RudiMustScore]

A company is only worth as much as the value of it's assets. You buy a car and spend a lot of money on it's running costs and repairs but at the end of the day it's only worth the book value unless someone wants to pay extra for personal but not business logic. In business the Head should always rule the Heart as it's all about the money!

 

Hearts may be an exceptional case where there will be a balance between the Head and the Heart as we are a club with a great History and there should be a special relationship with any new buyer who appreciates this.

 

Assets = around ?20 million

 

Goodwill = maybe ?5 million, but this would only be a gesture from any buyer.

 

The debt belongs to Vlad and has no significance to the sale of Hearts, so Vlad would have to deal with it as a seperate issue.

 

Only a layman's view therefore I could be completely wrong?

[Charlie-Brown]

On UBIG's continued involvement I just get the feeling that they won't want to be in the UK for that long.

 

Perhaps not depends what reasons or reason might make them want to depart with haste? and I suppose in those circumstances they might sell Tynecastle for it's land value to Tesco or whoever and serve us with a notice to evict? It depends whether they want or need their money back or a quick sale.

[Daydream Believer]

This is basic business negotiation at work.

 

Vlad demands a huge price for the club, a buyer offers considerably less and they haggle until they meet in the middle.

 

The middle is where Vlad wanted to be all along.

 

That's why he's rich.

 

 

No, that's how you sell fake rolexes to tourists.

 

Any businessmen doing multi-million pound deals will be well capable of valuing Hearts at their assets less liabilities, plus whatever they want to throw in because they want to own hearts. The idea that Vlad is some genius and everyone else is an idiot has somehow come to be taken as fact on here.

 

As for winding up the media; no doubt they will be furious when they put this bullshit on the back pages tomorrow and sell lots of papers.

[Jezza]

 

You gave the approval for all the signings which meant we are living outwith our means, you fool. These have to be paid for. No?

 

 

 

 

Couldn't give a shit how we are doing or how we are playing, sounds like an erse cause we need money due to his miss management and makes it look like he's doing the favour.

[IMA MAROON]

Most of the debt was there already, he never created it all.

[Coco]

Well, there we have it.

 

[/font]

 

[/size][/font]

 

As I have said before it is clearly the Board's fault.

 

Sack the Chairman/Interim Chief Executive and the non-executive directors who constantly ask VR for more money.

 

SACK THE BOARD

[Jezza]

Most of the debt was there already, he never created it all.

 

Surely the DFE and Gordon sale covers 20 million no?

[IMA MAROON]

Surely the DFE and Gordon sale covers 20 million no?

 

He is allowed his profits as well as his loses.

 

CPR should show up with the ?20 million he cost the club. That would help out.

[stuartidh]

If I were a serious potential buyer I'd be delighted witth Vlad's statement. He has told them how the business should be valued and no serious buyer would have any difficulty with the priciples he has outlined. I(It often takes a long time to get that far in a commercial negotiation). He says it is worth the value of the ground plus the value of the business as a project. The value of the ground is something that can be assessed by independent experts. The value of the project is the discounted cah flow of future earnings. Any serious buyer will have a business plan with projections of future profis, taking account the cost of servicing various levels of debt.

 

Over to you, consortia.

 

Yeah, what a delightful statement! An overinflated valuation of the club, and a bare-faced lie about the money that's been pumped into the club by himself. Yes, I'm sure good business man and serious potential buyers will be delighted about having to do business with someone with his head screwed on so tightly.

[RudiMustScore]

Most of the debt was there already, he never created it all.

 

I think you'll find that Hearts have been losing an average ?10 million per annum over the last 6 years so work it out for yourself?

 

Make sure you add Craig Gordons fee, Bednar etc, DFE's, Debt forgiveness and you'll probably find that our original debt of ?23 million is chicken feed compared to the amount of money mismanaged under the present regime

[hmfc1440]

Perhaps not depends what reasons or reason might make them want to depart with haste? and I suppose in those circumstances they might sell Tynecastle for it's land value to Tesco or whoever and serve us with a notice to evict? It depends whether they want or need their money back or a quick sale.

 

Was advised that soca have ubig on their list meaning any new owner is liable for any "mistakes" made in the current era as they may have inadvertently profited

from it. The seller would be clear of any liability in 5 years.

[Colonel Kurtz]

He is allowed his profits as well as his loses.

 

CPR should show up with the ?20 million he cost the club. That would help out.

What profits

Tynecastle was bought for 30k from the council originally,in a deal and for a price which in todays climate would have caused uproar and possibly court appearances.

When Robinson left the debt was less than the mark to market value of the land, and the playing staff,what is the football clubs position now.

The worse thing any business can do is not pay their employees,rather than suspend the interest payments to a parent company.

Hearts made a tax payment,because legally they are only collectors of this money and the repurcussions are severe

Romanovs spiv like business practice,on say Princes street flats will have pissed off potential new owners

[Charlie-Brown]

Was advised that soca have ubig on their list meaning any new owner is liable for any "mistakes" made in the current era as they may have inadvertently profited

from it. The seller would be clear of any liability in 5 years.

 

Given the losses and debts HMFC have incurred over the period it's hard to see how the football club have profited from any "mistakes" and these would surely be criminal investigations so therefore would apply to individuals not companies?

 

Also the buyers would surely have rights to set-off claims for any monies still owed to the sellers?

[hmfc1440]

Given the losses and debts HMFC have incurred over the period it's hard to see how the football club have profited from any "mistakes" and these would surely be criminal investigations so therefore would apply to individuals not companies?

 

Also the buyers would surely have rights to set-off claims for any monies still owed to the sellers?

 

Any potential buyer would be better declaring their intentions to soca prior to purchase and for clearance is what I am led to believe.

But this may answer your question re quick and clean exit strategy.

[Charlie-Brown]

Any potential buyer would be better declaring their intentions to soca prior to purchase and for clearance is what I am led to believe.

But this may answer your question re quick and clean exit strategy.

 

But this would affect any buyers ie the rumoured 'Edinburgh' bidders, the 'London' bidders, TESCO or whoever eventually does any deal to buy HMFC and/or Tynecastle.

[JamboAl]

What profits

Tynecastle was bought for 30k from the council originally,in a deal and for a price which in todays climate would have caused uproar and possibly court appearances.

When Robinson left the debt was less than the mark to market value of the land, and the playing staff,what is the football clubs position now.

The worse thing any business can do is not pay their employees,rather than suspend the interest payments to a parent company.

Hearts made a tax payment,because legally they are only collectors of this money and the repurcussions are severe

Romanovs spiv like business practice,on say Princes street flats will have pissed off potential new owners

 

The debt was less than the mark to market value - what does that mean?

How do you know they haven't suspended the interest payments as well?

So the debt was PAYE/NIC etc?

[hmfc1440]

But this would affect any buyers ie the rumoured 'Edinburgh' bidders, the 'London' bidders, TESCO or whoever eventually does any deal to buy HMFC and/or Tynecastle.

 

U got it - they may not be aware but we have checked.

[weerab]

Now this statement must be really encouraging to any prospective buyers "House for sale, no matter how much you spend to fix it up and keep it running, it will never be enough".

 

 

"Every time they just ask for money, and every time I promise not to give more, then they promise to make it themselves."

[Francis Albert]

Now this statement must be really encouraging to any prospective buyers "House for sale, no matter how much you spend to fix it up and keep it running, it will never be enough".

 

 

"Every time they just ask for money, and every time I promise not to give more, then they promise to make it themselves."

 

I hope any buyer is aware that this is an endemic problem faced by most investors in football clubs and will have a proper business plan (or lots of resources) to address it.

[kingantti1874]

The debt was less than the mark to market value - what does that mean?

How do you know they haven't suspended the interest payments as well?

So the debt was PAYE/NIC etc?

 

It means the value of the stadium at that point in time..

[Jezza]

Now this statement must be really encouraging to any prospective buyers "House for sale, no matter how much you spend to fix it up and keep it running, it will never be enough".

 

 

"Every time they just ask for money, and every time I promise not to give more, then they promise to make it themselves."

 

The final quote might be the real reason for the wages issue.

[winston churchill]

:lol::lol:

[Charlie-Brown]

U got it - they may not be aware but we have checked.

 

best to also check with HMRC then that they don't have any as yet unresolved 'issues' .