So ?50 million we are worth apparently

[RudiMustScore]

Well in that case we are doomed and let's give up now. (And make that the last 10 and probably many more years).

 

With the right starting debt level and a proper business plan, one of the top 100 or so clubs in Europe in revenue terms could certainly be a going concern.

 

We were a 'Going Concern' when Vlad took over but then the huge losses accelerated us into negative equity, therefore we now don't have the available assets to cover the debt.

[Drylaw Hearts]

can we be honest no one in there right mind would pay a huckelbery pound for HMFC Never mind 50 million.

we are donald ducked

 

[Jambof3tornado]

He has said nothing yet to make me think he really wants to sell the club or has any intention of selling the club.

 

He feckin love the attention.

Totally this!!!

[Das Root]

If Romanov wanted to, he could sell all assets, bulldoze the stadium and just sit on the ground until it was feasible to sell it or build on it. I just can't see him walking away with a loss and a clear conscience.

[bishop1874]

You are wrong. The club was purchased for ?4m and the assumption of about ?20m of debt. And about ?30m of debt has effectively been written off. Where is UBIG/Vlad's "profit"?

 

I didn't take the debt for equity into account (stupid of me) however the assumption of debt is only valid if the debt is paid at purchase by a new owner. I think its more likely that if/when a new owner is in place the debt will remain with UBIG as I can't see another bank who would take it on.

 

I think a portion of the debt is due to be paid next month (18 million IIRC), once UBIG decide what is to happen with this in regards to new terms will give prospective new owners a better idea of our finances

[Francis Albert]

We were a 'Going Concern' when Vlad took over but then the huge losses accelerated us into negative equity, therefore we now don't have the available assets to cover the debt.

 

Hence the firece competition Vlad faced when buying us? We weren't a going concern. Our liabilities exceeded our assets even then and we were losing ?2m plus a year. HBOS had pulled the plug on any overdraft facility.

[Francis Albert]

can we be honest no one in there right mind would pay a huckelbery pound for HMFC Never mind 50 million.

we are donald ducked

 

So the interested parties are offering less than a huckelbery pound? (Whatever that is). It wouldn't surprise me, but it kind of depends what exactly is for sale, doesn't it?

[portobellojambo1]

I don't think it's quite that black and white. He could forgive most of the debt and still fetch a price for the club as a going concern which would exceed its break up value. The decline in asset values, with Tynecastle worth maybe half what it once was as "flats", helps us in this respect. (Us in this case being us, the fans, not Vlad).

 

 

I just went for the extremes at either end, which were expect any new owner to take on the debt in full or write it off in full. I accept there are steps in between, for example a partial write off, but I'm not sure if Mr Romanov will go for an in between sort of option (I think that is probably the main problem, everyone is guessing because none of us know what he is thinking/intending).

[Francis Albert]

I didn't take the debt for equity into account (stupid of me) however the assumption of debt is only valid if the debt is paid at purchase by a new owner. I think its more likely that if/when a new owner is in place the debt will remain with UBIG as I can't see another bank who would take it on.

 

I think a portion of the debt is due to be paid next month (18 million IIRC), once UBIG decide what is to happen with this in regards to new terms will give prospective new owners a better idea of our finances

 

 

Correct. A lot depends on how much more debt Vlad/UBIG is prepared to write off.

 

Quite a lot if they seriously want out.

[RudiMustScore]

Hence the firece competition Vlad faced when buying us? We weren't a going concern. Our liabilities exceeded our assets even then and we were losing ?2m plus a year. HBOS had pulled the plug on any overdraft facility.

 

Not true Francis, and if you visit companies house website all the documents are available for ?1 per copy.

 

I have pre Romanov accounts going back to 2000 and we have been a 'Going Concern' in every set of accounts until Vlad's debt forced us into negative equity regarding our assets. That is why SMG etc wanted to pull the plug in 2004 as we were heading the same way with our losses under Chris Robinson and would therefore have become a liabilty and their investment would have been at risk.

[Francis Albert]

Not true Francis, and if you visit companies house website all the documents are available for ?1 per copy.

 

I have pre Romanov accounts going back to 2000 and we have been a 'Going Concern' in every set of accounts until Vlad's debt forced us into negative equity regarding our assets. That is why SMG etc wanted to pull the plug in 2004 as we were heading the same way with our losses under Chris Robinson and would therefore have become a liabilty and their investment would have been at risk.

 

OK we were on the cusp of not being, in strict accounting terms a "going concern", but rapidly heading there. We were merely sick as a parrot.

[Munch]

 

Would you ? go on be the man ?

[RudiMustScore]

OK we were on the cusp of not being, in strict accounting terms a "going concern", but rapidly heading there. We were merely sick as a parrot.

 

Yep, to be sure...although now Vlad could have us as 'Dead as a Dodo'....a wee exageration mibees

[Francis Albert]

Yep, to be sure...although now Vlad could have us as 'Dead as a Dodo'....a wee exageration mibees

 

 

Maybe. I feel the dead parrot sketch coming on.

[RudiMustScore]

[Thunderstruck]

I think Vlad's being a WUM again. The weegia will be all over this like a rash, when he's surely taking the piss!

 

True but it won't stop a multi-pager with input from the JKB Amateur Accountancy Club neatly interspersed with input from our own WUMs and smiley-only posts from those with a minimal grasp of the English language.

 

As someone else said, VR likes nothing more than being the centre of attention and he is certainly getting plenty at the moment.

[naeclue]

I think that we'll get to the point where we (the support) just move on, and restart Hearts all over again. I don't see it happening too soon, but given Vlad's history, I think we'll end up with no choice. Early days for this talk, I blame the beer.

[Fozzyonthefence]

for those of you who don't know, this is called haggling.

 

Or maybe just putting off any potential realistic buyers, if there are any. Why is it when he talks pish there's always people trying to credit him with being a genius and just trying to get one over the Scotish media?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Or maybe just putting off any potential realistic buyers, if there are any. Why is it when he talks pish there's always people trying to credit him with being a genius and just trying to get one over the Scotish media?

He made me laugh. I give him credit for that. Who said anything about him being a genius?

[wibble]

Vlad chucks out a few peanuts and the monkeys in the press and the monkeys on JKB all get in a lather. Even people like Euan/Ewan climb out of their trees and start wittering.

 

Even when he makes it clear that the whole thing is a joke (by talking up a 50m price tag) the monkeys keep chattering. He just keeps ripping the piss and the same old victims keep walking right into it.

 

Of an evening he must pull on the red silk smoking jacket and the kid-skin slippers, sit back with a gigantic brandy and a big fat cuban and laugh until he soils himself.

 

I love the guy.

 

Long live Vladimir Romanov!

[weerab]

Vlad chucks out a few peanuts and the monkeys in the press and the monkeys on JKB all get in a lather. Even people like Euan/Ewan climb out of their trees and start wittering.

 

Even when he makes it clear that the whole thing is a joke (by talking up a 50m price tag) the monkeys keep chattering. He just keeps ripping the piss and the same old victims keep walking right into it.

 

Of an evening he must pull on the red silk smoking jacket and the kid-skin slippers, sit back with a gigantic brandy and a big fat cuban and laugh until he soils himself.

 

I love the guy.

 

Long live Vladimir Romanov!

 

So who do you think his intended victims of this "joke" are this time ?

Also, considering what has went on with the wages the last couple of months, you don't see any cause for concern whatsoever ?

You can stop posting on this guys, our minds have been put at rest. Thank God, I was almost starting to sweat there.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

So who do you think his intended victims of this "joke" are this time ?

Also, considering what has went on with the wages the last couple of months, you don't see any cause for concern whatsoever ?

You can stop posting on this guys, our minds have been put at rest. Thank God, I was almost starting to sweat there.

The wages issue is a non-sequitur. This is a deliberately stupid valuation, which the media will lap up.

[Martin_T]

The paying of the ?1million tax bill recently shows that liquidation is not being considered as an option (for those suggesting it) in my opinion. With my rationale being that VR could have screwed HMRC over in an insolvency event as they no longer have preferred creditor status.

[weerab]

The paying of the ?1million tax bill recently shows that liquidation is not being considered as an option (for those suggesting it) in my opinion. With my rationale being that VR could have screwed HMRC over in an insolvency event as they no longer have preferred creditor status.

 

Not too worried about liquidation mate, more concerned that he will keep funding for wages etc. or will he start to draw out what he can from us (any transfer money etc.), as a start of cutting his losses. And if so, we were not self sufficient to pay the last wages without his help, so how are we going to pay next months ?

Aye, I think the 50 million is a joke, but I also think the "I don't go to see them anymore, as all they do is ask for more money" is the most worrying part of his statement (for the immediate term anyway).

 

Let's hope it's all just his latest attempt at "humour", but I'm still missing the punchline.

[audrey65]

We were a 'Going Concern' when Vlad took over but then the huge losses accelerated us into negative equity, therefore we now don't have the available assets to cover the debt.

 

 

Sorry RMS but we had made a loss for each of the previous 5 seasons of over ?11m (combined) against a turnover of just over ?35m. Vlad has not changed anything and only accentuated the losses. Whatever way you look at it it's not good.

[audrey65]

Not too worried about liquidation mate, more concerned that he will keep funding for wages etc. or will he start to draw out what he can from us (any transfer money etc.), as a start of cutting his losses. And if so, we were not self sufficient to pay the last wages without his help, so how are we going to pay next months ?

Aye, I think the 50 million is a joke, but I also think the "I don't go to see them anymore, as all they do is ask for more money" is the most worrying part of his statement (for the immediate term anyway).

 

Let's hope it's all just his latest attempt at "humour", but I'm still missing the punchline.

 

That, to me, is the problem really in that no one is that concerned because it happens quite a lot with little or no significant impact on the clubs concerned.

[Charlie-Brown]

The paying of the ?1million tax bill recently shows that liquidation is not being considered as an option (for those suggesting it) in my opinion. With my rationale being that VR could have screwed HMRC over in an insolvency event as they no longer have preferred creditor status.

 

Screwing over HMRC for underpayment of taxes isn't really a great idea when they have powers to go after Directors and individuals plus and in certain circumstances can also instigate criminal proceedings that can result in jail terms if guilty.

[Diego10]

That, to me, is the problem really in that no one is that concerned because it happens quite a lot with little or no significant impact on the clubs concerned.

you're getting Liquidation and Administration mixed up. Liquidation is the end of a club. Administration happens fairly regularly.

[jambovambo]

The wages issue is a non-sequitur. This is a deliberately stupid valuation, which the media will lap up.

 

Non sequitur (pronounced /n?n?s?kw?t?r/) is Latin for "it does not follow." It is most often used as a noun to describe illogical statements.

 

I think you mean "irrelevance".

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Non sequitur (pronounced /n?n?s?kw?t?r/) is Latin for "it does not follow." It is most often used as a noun to describe illogical statements.

 

I think you mean "irrelevance".

My bad.

[jambovambo]

My bad.

Arf

[Martin_T]

Screwing over HMRC for underpayment of taxes isn't really a great idea when they have powers to go after Directors and individuals plus and in certain circumstances can also instigate criminal proceedings that can result in jail terms if guilty.

 

Yup, but he could easily have proved that the business couldn't afford to pay and put the club into insolvency proceedings.

[jambali]

If Hearts are worth ?50 million - how much are my shares worth??

 

[SUTOL]

If Hearts are worth ?50 million - how much are my shares worth??

 

 

 

Whatever anyone is willing to pay for them.

 

 

As shares in the company are no longer traded on any stock exchange, there is no market for anyone to buy shares except either directly from an existing shareholder or possibly through the shareholders association. (who sometimes have a list of willing sellers, I believe)

[Francis Albert]

Non sequitur (pronounced /n?n?s?kw?t?r/) is Latin for "it does not follow." It is most often used as a noun to describe illogical statements.

 

I think you mean "irrelevance".

 

I recently used non sequitur in the same sense as Geoff did, so can I defend it? To respond to a statement or argument with an irrelevance can be described as a non sequitur. For example; to "Mrs Jones doesn't look at all well and she may not be long for this world - what do you think?", the response "I am off for a couple of weeks in Gran Canaria next month" is a bit of a non sequitur.

 

However it is fair to say "it's irrelevant" is less pretentious!

[jambovambo]

I recently used non sequitur in the same sense as Geoff did, so can I defend it? To respond to a statement or argument with an irrelevance can be described as a non sequitur. For example; to "Mrs Jones doesn't look at all well and she may not be long for this world - what do you think?", the response "I am off for a couple of weeks in Gran Canaria next month" is a bit of a non sequitur.

 

However it is fair to say "it's irrelevant" is less pretentious!

 

I think a non-sequitur would be "Mrs Jones doesn't look at all well - so I am off for a couple of weeks in Gran Canaria next month".

 

I think Geoff K meant "the wages thing is an irrelevant distraction".

 

But hey.

 

I mustn't hijack the thread.

 

Anyway ...

[Francis Albert]

Double post.

 

 

[Francis Albert]

Alternatively, I might just want to avoid having to look after the old bag.

 

Anyway, see definition 2.

 

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/non%20sequitur

[jambovambo]

So who do you think his intended victims of this "joke" are this time ?

Also, considering what has went on with the wages the last couple of months, you don't see any cause for concern whatsoever ?

You can stop posting on this guys, our minds have been put at rest. Thank God, I was almost starting to sweat there.

 

 

The wages issue is a non-sequitur. This is a deliberately stupid valuation, which the media will lap up.

 

See, for me, this mention of the wages (above) is not a non-sequitur, but a bit of "off-topic" (slightly), scope-creep, irrelevance to the theme of the thread.

 

Naebdy's deid, though.

[Francis Albert]

See, for me, this mention of the wages (above) is not a non-sequitur, but a bit of "off-topic" (slightly), scope-creep, irrelevance to the theme of the thread.

 

Naebdy's deid, though.

 

 

... so it's "a statement (as a response) that does not follow logically from or is not clearly related to anything previously said".

 

You'd be a tough exam marker if you didn't let that pass.

[Amjam]

I see Vlad want s?50m for Hearts so we better decide what a non-sequitur is.

[Francis Albert]

I see Vlad want s?50m for Hearts so we better decide what a non-sequitur is.

 

Definition 1 - you are spot on.

 

Defition 2

 

A: "Vlad wants ?50m for Hearts"

B: "We better decide what a non sequitur is"

 

Thanks.

[jambovambo]

... so it's "a statement (as a response) that does not follow logically from or is not clearly related to anything previously said".

 

You'd be a tough exam marker if you didn't let that pass.

That's me.

 

Hard as.

 

[hawaii]

Has anyone bothered to work out if the 50 million talked about in a Russian interview is pounds, dollars, roubles or whatever the Lithuanian currency is?

 

Obviously our rags have gone with it being ?50m, but wouldn't be the first time they have just done a copy & paste report without checking into the facts first.

[MC_Trotski]

Has anyone bothered to work out if the 50 million talked about in a Russian interview is pounds, dollars, roubles or whatever the Lithuanian currency is?

 

Obviously our rags have gone with it being ?50m, but wouldn't be the first time they have just done a copy & paste report without checking into the facts first.

 

"Hearts owner Vladimir Romanov told RIA Novosti on Tuesday his heavily indebted club, which he is looking to sell, is worth at least 50 million pounds."

 

From the actual article. So lets assume pounds.

[SUTOL]

Has anyone bothered to work out if the 50 million talked about in a Russian interview is pounds, dollars, roubles or whatever the Lithuanian currency is?

 

Obviously our rags have gone with it being ?50m, but wouldn't be the first time they have just done a copy & paste report without checking into the facts first.

 

 

The article has quote marks " " around some stements, which infers they are the words Vlad spoke. Though I imagine he gave the interview in Russian.

 

Interview

?A lot more has been spent, of course,? Romanov said, adding he had plowed 200 million into the club. ?The land is worth 25 million pounds, plus the players, the club with a project, are also worth 25 million. That?s about 50 [million]. It?s not the money I spent, but now that?s what it?s worth.?

 

No denomination is give for the 200 million, and only the land is actually reffered to in ?'s.

 

It doesn't say how much he would accept as a purchase price either.

[hawaii]

So a Russian reading that report would interpret him to be talking in roubles then, but a Scottish reporter has taken it to mean ?50m & ?200m

 

I just hope every Jambo has bought a ticket for Euro Millions on Friday...

[troonmaroon]

So a Russian reading that report would interpret him to be talking in roubles then, but a Scottish reporter has taken it to mean ?50m & ?200m

 

I just hope every Jambo has bought a ticket for Euro Millions on Friday...

 

Potentially worth adding that 50m litas (lithuanian currency) is about ?12.5m...!? (Which would make the "200m" quoted investment nearer ?50m and potentially closer to the actual figure) However, I reckon he probably did say ?s and is - for the most part - on the wind up.

[Big G]

I'm calling BS on the whole "Hearts for sale thing." Think the dude is just trying to get attention.

[MC_Trotski]

I'm calling BS on the whole "Hearts for sale thing." Think the dude is just trying to get attention.

 

Or trying to deflect attention away from the fact the players haven't been paid. Not hearing much about that these days, unlike the last time when it was a daily staple of the media and KB