I.T.K Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 If Hearts are worth ?50 million - how much are my shares worth?? Not sure if its been mentioned any place else... I think Vlad feel's Hearts are worth ?50million as he owns over 82% of the shares which is alot for a football club owner, We know Vlad bought the controlling stake of Hearts from Robinson and in this transaction he only bought 19.2% of the shares as the rest is with other people. I dont know how much Vlad paid Robinson (I would be interested to know.) but he is now selling a bigger share of Hearts and therefore feels he can charge a lot for complete control. Just think a buyer could spend the money to buy Hearts and then make a lot of money back in a share deal to fans the next day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audrey65 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 you're getting Liquidation and Administration mixed up. Liquidation is the end of a club. Administration happens fairly regularly. You may be right. But to be not too worried about liquidation in that case is even more bizarre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego10 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 You may be right. But to be not too worried about liquidation in that case is even more bizarre. I think the poster meant not too worried as in not thinking it would happen, rather than no being bothered about it if it did. You'd have to be screwy in the head to consider Liquidation no to be a big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audrey65 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 I think the poster meant not too worried as in not thinking it would happen, rather than no being bothered about it if it did. You'd have to be screwy in the head to consider Liquidation no to be a big deal. Having read again you're probably right. I really suspect we are in the doo doo this time though and struggle to see a way out of it. The fact that a lot of the players still havent been paid is a worry. The administation/liquidation thing is a problem for me as I see administration as being the main debtor pursuing the club for payment that cant be met. In our case the main debtor AND creditor are one and the same person so Vlad would have to take himself to court and then it all gets a bit Monty Python ish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_T Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Having read again you're probably right. I really suspect we are in the doo doo this time though and struggle to see a way out of it. The fact that a lot of the players still havent been paid is a worry. The administation/liquidation thing is a problem for me as I see administration as being the main debtor pursuing the club for payment that cant be met. In our case the main debtor AND creditor are one and the same person so Vlad would have to take himself to court and then it all gets a bit Monty Python ish. Hence administration isn't an option unless an external creditor forces it. Hearts will either be sold or liquidated, hopefully the former...obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floyd Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Not sure if its been mentioned any place else... I think Vlad feel's Hearts are worth ?50million as he owns over 82% of the shares which is alot for a football club owner, We know Vlad bought the controlling stake of Hearts from Robinson and in this transaction he only bought 19.2% of the shares as the rest is with other people. I dont know how much Vlad paid Robinson (I would be interested to know.) but he is now selling a bigger share of Hearts and therefore feels he can charge a lot for complete control. Just think a buyer could spend the money to buy Hearts and then make a lot of money back in a share deal to fans the next day. Two words spring to mind with this "Fergus McCann". Bought the club. Saved them from extinction/bankruptcy. Built them a stadium. Won them the league. Sold up to the fans and left with a healthy wedge in his sky rocket!!! Maybe our prospective buyers have a similar agenda?? Not saying they do or claiming to be ITK but it's always something to think about is it not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audrey65 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Hence administration isn't an option unless an external creditor forces it. Hearts will either be sold or liquidated, hopefully the former...obviously. Thats really my thinking despite all the talk on here. I think we're in more bother than a lot of the posts reflect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audrey65 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Two words spring to mind with this "Fergus McCann". Bought the club. Saved them from extinction/bankruptcy. Built them a stadium. Won them the league. Sold up to the fans and left with a healthy wedge in his sky rocket!!! Maybe our prospective buyers have a similar agenda?? Not saying they do or claiming to be ITK but it's always something to think about is it not? We have nowhere near the potential of Celtic and, despite appearances, we are nowhere near as badly run. The Celtic board at that time were dinosaurs from a bygone age running the club into the ground and no match for what was happening at Rangers. If it was that simple all the clubs would be doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_T Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Thats really my thinking despite all the talk on here. I think we're in more bother than a lot of the posts reflect. We're in the same trouble we've been in since October 2005, i.e. we are entirely reliant on the whims of one man, Vladimir Romanov. He's almost impossible to predict and is just as likely to write the debt off and give the club away for free as he is liquidate the club. The main issue for me at the moment the non-payment of the players wages, none of us would be anywhere near as worried about the future of the club if he was still meeting our current obligations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 We're in the same trouble we've been in since October 2005, i.e. we are entirely reliant on the whims of one man, Vladimir Romanov. He's almost impossible to predict and is just as likely to write the debt off and give the club away for free as he is liquidate the club. The main issue for me at the moment the non-payment of the players wages, none of us would be anywhere near as worried about the future of the club if he was still meeting our current obligations. the worst that can happen with the players is that they can eventually void their contracts, we might get a signing embargo meantime and possibly the players could sue us for breach of contract which would eventually settle ....... it depends which players are not being paid as to whether there is any immediate financial loss likely to be attached to such non-payment problems and of course a lot of reputational damage. However football is a very fickle business and players and agents will probably conclude that after a large number of players have left the chances of being paid at HMFC will have increased dramatically and thus any long term damage is probably negligible when cash is put on the table? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buca junior Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Have all the players been paid yet? The quotes Romanov gave to the press regarding his valuation of Hearts were designed to move attention from the wage issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audrey65 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 the worst that can happen with the players is that they can eventually void their contracts, we might get a signing embargo meantime and possibly the players could sue us for breach of contract which would eventually settle ....... it depends which players are not being paid as to whether there is any immediate financial loss likely to be attached to such non-payment problems and of course a lot of reputational damage. However football is a very fickle business and players and agents will probably conclude that after a large number of players have left the chances of being paid at HMFC will have increased dramatically and thus any long term damage is probably negligible when cash is put on the table? I really dont think it will be this easy. If players arent paid and the worst is that they leave whats to stop other clubs using this "technique" as a reason in the future to get under performing players off the books? Just dont pay them and let them leave? It would jeapordise the whole contact system and I cant see the footballing authorities wearing it without further penalty for the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamof1958 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 a quick check on Google and the equivalent of 200m Russian Rubles is ?41k, or 200m Lithuanian Litai is ?501k . wouldn't surprise me if those figures were what we're worth lol Hits the nail right on the head! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 200 million Lith Litai is roughly ?50 million not ?501k I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_T Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 200 million Lith Litai is roughly ?50 million not ?501k I think I think the figures quoted are almost certainly in Lithuanian Lita, as the figures when converted to Sterling actually make sense, he would sell the club for ?12.5 million and has spent around ?50 million in his time at the club. The problem for us though, is that there still appears to be no buyers that have come forward, at least in public anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 If Vlad was talking in local currency then his numbers just about stack up. He has spent over ?50 million on Hearts and the land is worth ?6-7m (25 million divided by 4). Without planning permission for housing, commercial etc the land may be worth even less to him than it would be if he kept it as a football stadium, refurbished it and rented it to an Edinburgh club that needs a stadium! That's one thing that no-one has speculated on yet...if during discussions with the Council Vlad has been told that COMAH regs will prohibit housing on the Tynecastle site then his only valuable asset at Hearts has been wiped out at a stroke. Could be the straw that has broken the camel's back I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deevers Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Question : Did Vlad eventully buy the land that the old Tynecastle High School stands on from the Council? If so he's been conned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munch Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 need to work this one out quickly as i only got back of a fag packet to write it down, Stadium current worth 10 million on a good day, players well fire sale in Jan could maybee raise 1 mil for Temps, 1 mil for Stevenson, Kello a mill, rest are free transfers and loan deals. Now theres the 35 mil debt to deal with, and the old stand need maybee 5 million to sort that one out. Plus the posibility of relegation as all the players will be from the youth team. Attendancies down season tickets down Yip Vlad the package as you refer to it is worth the square root of Best you get Remax to put a for sale board outside offers in the region of 50 mil there will be people cueing up the length of Gorgie Road to view This sorts it out once and for all the man is clearly insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2NaFish Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Hits the nail right on the head! not quite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_T Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 need to work this one out quickly as i only got back of a fag packet to write it down, Stadium current worth 10 million on a good day, players well fire sale in Jan could maybee raise 1 mil for Temps, 1 mil for Stevenson, Kello a mill, rest are free transfers and loan deals. Now theres the 35 mil debt to deal with, and the old stand need maybee 5 million to sort that one out. Plus the posibility of relegation as all the players will be from the youth team. Attendancies down season tickets down Yip Vlad the package as you refer to it is worth the square root of Best you get Remax to put a for sale board outside offers in the region of 50 mil there will be people cueing up the length of Gorgie Road to view This sorts it out once and for all the man is clearly insane. Both of whom are out of contract at the end of the season and consequently nominal fees at best. Whichever option VR takes, he is going to lose an almighty sum of money, that much is certain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audrey65 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Both of whom are out of contract at the end of the season and consequently nominal fees at best. Whichever option VR takes, he is going to lose an almighty sum of money, that much is certain. Our contract situation is here http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/15857682.stm?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter January 2012: Rudi Skacel, Janos Balogh. Summer 2012: Eggert Jonsson, Suso Santana, Kevin Kyle, Stephen Elliot, David Obua, Calum Elliott (currently on loan to Dundee), Ryan Stevenson, Jason Thomson (currently on loan to Dunfermline), Gary Glen, Marian Kello, Mark Ridgers (currently on loan to East Fife), Jamie McDonald, Jonathon Stewart, Denis Prychenko (currently on loan to Raith Rovers), Matthew Park (currently on loan to East Fife), Kevin McHattie, Robert Ogelby (currently on loan to East Fife). Summer 2014: Danny Grainger, Darren Barr, Andy Webster, Ian Black, Andy Driver, David Templeton, Ryan McGowan, Mehdi Taouil, Craig Thomson (currently on loan to Kaunas), Marius Zaliukas, Scott Robinson, Adrian Mrowiec, Dylan McGowan (currently on loan to Brisbane Roar). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munch Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Both of whom are out of contract at the end of the season and consequently nominal fees at best. Whichever option VR takes, he is going to lose an almighty sum of money, that much is certain. when you are going to loose a lot of doe in the financial market its called taking a haircut. Vlad would be beter shaving his heid and writting it all off, the sub has been torpeedod Vlad its over 50 million you are having a laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego10 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 I really dont think it will be this easy. If players arent paid and the worst is that they leave whats to stop other clubs using this "technique" as a reason in the future to get under performing players off the books? Just dont pay them and let them leave? It would jeapordise the whole contact system and I cant see the footballing authorities wearing it without further penalty for the club. Non payment of wages is rife in Europe. Was that no why the Spanish league was on strike at the start of the season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audrey65 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Non payment of wages is rife in Europe. Was that no why the Spanish league was on strike at the start of the season? I didnt know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo-Jambo Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Our contract situation is here http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/15857682.stm?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter January 2012: Rudi Skacel, Janos Balogh. Summer 2012: Eggert Jonsson, Suso Santana, Kevin Kyle, Stephen Elliot, David Obua, Calum Elliott (currently on loan to Dundee), Ryan Stevenson, Jason Thomson (currently on loan to Dunfermline), Gary Glen, Marian Kello, Mark Ridgers (currently on loan to East Fife), Jamie McDonald, Jonathon Stewart, Denis Prychenko (currently on loan to Raith Rovers), Matthew Park (currently on loan to East Fife), Kevin McHattie, Robert Ogelby (currently on loan to East Fife). Summer 2014: Danny Grainger, Darren Barr, Andy Webster, Ian Black, Andy Driver, David Templeton, Ryan McGowan, Mehdi Taouil, Craig Thomson (currently on loan to Kaunas), Marius Zaliukas, Scott Robinson, Adrian Mrowiec, Dylan McGowan (currently on loan to Brisbane Roar). Ian Black must have got a 5 or 6 year contract when he signed then because as far as i am aware he has never had an extension to his original one. Bloody hope not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audrey65 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Ian Black must have got a 5 or 6 year contract when he signed then because as far as i am aware he has never had an extension to his original one. Bloody hope not. It is the BBC though.................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawaii Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Be more accurate to ask someone to check out Football Manager 12 than rely on information from the Scottish press Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floyd Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Be more accurate to ask someone to check out Football Manager 12 than rely on information from the Scottish press Sad but true! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decullio Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 If Liverpool striker Andy Carol is worth 35 million then I don't see a problem with vlads estimate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janie jones Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 He's said some loony things in his time but to claim he's ploughed in over 200 million is the most ridiculous thing to have ever come out of his mouth ever. If he had 'ploughed' a quarter of that we would be multi SPL champions by now. Fud. Even with what he has spent we should have challenged the OF more than the brief time in 2005/06. Probably the most galling is how much he has shelled out in transfer fees and wages we only have one decent season to look back on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMA MAROON Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 If Vlad was talking in local currency then his numbers just about stack up. He has spent over ?50 million on Hearts and the land is worth ?6-7m (25 million divided by 4). Without planning permission for housing, commercial etc the land may be worth even less to him than it would be if he kept it as a football stadium, refurbished it and rented it to an Edinburgh club that needs a stadium! That's one thing that no-one has speculated on yet...if during discussions with the Council Vlad has been told that COMAH regs will prohibit housing on the Tynecastle site then his only valuable asset at Hearts has been wiped out at a stroke. Could be the straw that has broken the camel's back I think. If the land is now only worth ?7 million then Vlad should wait until the cost of land goes back up to what it was when he bought the club that way he gets a fair price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 If the land is now only worth ?7 million then Vlad should wait until the cost of land goes back up to what it was when he bought the club that way he gets a fair price. Which is definitely going to happen, of course.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Which is definitely going to happen, of course.... It might if we get mass (or hyper) inflation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 It might if we get mass (or hyper) inflation? Perhaps. Trying to explain 'real' values might be a waste of time though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Perhaps. Trying to explain 'real' values might be a waste of time though. Using the sizes and prices of items like wagon-wheels or mars-bars as they were previously compared to the present is generally the best way to describe inflation and 'real' values. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floyd Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Using the sizes and prices of items like wagon-wheels or mars-bars as they were previously compared to the present is generally the best way to describe inflation and 'real' values. You forgot Turkish Delights & Creme Eggs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 You forgot Turkish Delights & Creme Eggs! Bags of Monster Munch are the most striking example! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munch Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Which is definitely going to happen, of course.... The value of the Stadium is the amount a developer would pay for it, in the current property slump there is hardly a developer left still in business, and the ones that are cant secure bank funding because the banks have no money. Also even by a miracle that a developer could offer a couple of million for the land and they built x amount of houses/flats who is going to buy them no one can get a mortgage. Vlads 25 million value on the site is pie in the sky. CPR Had secured 20.5 Million for the site at the height of the property boom more by luck than any business accumen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Polo mints also have gone up a huge amount. It was not long ago they cost 10p, now they are about 40p. It puts me right off, but since they lower your sperm count, I suppose it is not a bad thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Comedian Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Old news. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 when you are going to loose a lot of doe in the financial market its called taking a haircut. you mean this could cost Vlad deer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 you mean this could cost Vlad deer You mean lots of bucks? Oh Jesus Christ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmpONxJ7JSw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floyd Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 No! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 You mean lots of bucks? A Staggering amount Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMA MAROON Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Perhaps. Trying to explain 'real' values might be a waste of time though. It would be but if I was Vlad I'd rather keep the club and pass it on to my son than give away ?20 million. 20 years from now the land might be worth a fortune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portobellojambo1 Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 It would be but if I was Vlad I'd rather keep the club and pass it on to my son than give away ?20 million. 20 years from now the land might be worth a fortune. Twenty years from now Vlad will be 85 years old, and to get a reasonable price for Tynecastle 20 years down the line could cost him as much over that period. Even if we traded for the full period at an annual loss of ?1million that would be ?20 million over 20 years. If he then got an additional ?20 million for Tynecastle all he would be doing is breaking even, so he'd be just as well fecking off now. And ?20 million in 20 years time will probably buy you a litre of milk, a half loaf and 6 eggs. He might be a loony the now, but the thought of him at 85, as a loony with old age symptoms doesn't bear thinking about. If his mind cannot work logically now it ain't going to function any better 20 years down the line. And the thought of Vlad passing the club onto Roman, wow, tempting to make a call and see how much it costs to get someone removed these days, given it is a recession and even hit men must be struggling to get contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMA MAROON Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Twenty years from now Vlad will be 85 years old, and to get a reasonable price for Tynecastle 20 years down the line could cost him as much over that period. Even if we traded for the full period at an annual loss of ?1million that would be ?20 million over 20 years. If he then got an additional ?20 million for Tynecastle all he would be doing is breaking even, so he'd be just as well fecking off now. And ?20 million in 20 years time will probably buy you a litre of milk, a half loaf and 6 eggs. He might be a loony the now, but the thought of him at 85, as a loony with old age symptoms doesn't bear thinking about. If his mind cannot work logically now it ain't going to function any better 20 years down the line. And the thought of Vlad passing the club onto Roman, wow, tempting to make a call and see how much it costs to get someone removed these days, given it is a recession and even hit men must be struggling to get contracts. Hearts will not trade at a loss for 20 years though. The stadium can crumble, the club can go bust but Vlad still has the land. Roman will pick up the cheque when the time is right, there is no hurry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portobellojambo1 Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Hearts will not trade at a loss for 20 years though. The stadium can crumble, the club can go bust but Vlad still has the land. Roman will pick up the cheque when the time is right, there is no hurry. What makes you say that IM, just out of interest. Would be interesting to look at the accounts for the last 20 years, say 1991 to 2011, because I would suspect in most if not all of those years we were trading very close to a loss if not actually losing money each season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMA MAROON Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 What makes you say that IM, just out of interest. Would be interesting to look at the accounts for the last 20 years, say 1991 to 2011, because I would suspect in most if not all of those years we were trading very close to a loss if not actually losing money each season. I only mean if Vlad decides he is not willing to take the haircut everyone says he has to. He is not going to keep putting money into the club if he decides it is not worth selling. If the club is only worth the land Tynecastle sits on then that is all he has to care about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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