Napoleon Wilson Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 With the HMRC arresting the 2.8m quid the first domino has toppled. Anyone who does business with Rangers on a week to week basis will now be terrified that they might never get paid and will demand upfront payments. Anyone who is owed money by Rangers will stop providing new goods and services until outstanding obligations are met. With the loss of 10m in Champs League money the Whyte masterplan will be tits up and the big tax case hasnt even been finalised yet. Look for there to be stories soon about how the police are threatening to not cover their games because of unpaid bills, or the catering company are refusing to supply catering etc etc. This post made me feel really happy. Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 you can be your usual smart arse all you want but they paid it AFTER it was due, not the last minute. Of course the payment was late...... Otherwise it would never have gone to court in the first place. :greggy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 I get the feeling that this will end with rangers in administration. If hmrc are calling in debts and rangers can't or won't pay, eventually they'll issue a winding up order and force the issue. A sad day for all connected to Scottish football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasman Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Of course the payment was late...... Otherwise it would never have gone to court in the first place. Had to laugh at the BBC Reporter outside Ibrox, who claimed that Rangers had "gone to court this morning to confirm that the debt had been paid in full". I'm sure he'll still be welcome at Ibrox, while his media colleagues from The Herald, The Evening Times, and The Sunday Herald, are not. They reported that Rangers were dragged back into Court this morning for failing to comply with the previous Court agreement, and were forced into making the payment today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floyd Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Had to laugh at the BBC Reporter outside Ibrox, who claimed that Rangers had "gone to court this morning to confirm that the debt had been paid in full". I'm sure he'll still be welcome at Ibrox, while his media colleagues from The Herald, The Evening Times, and The Sunday Herald, are not. They reported that Rangers were dragged back into Court this morning for failing to comply with the previous Court agreement, and were forced into making the payment today. I wonder who I believe.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Winchester Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 I get the feeling that this will end with rangers in administration. If hmrc are calling in debts and rangers can't or won't pay, eventually they'll issue a winding up order and force the issue. A sad day for all connected to Scottish football I'd call it a great day to be perfectly honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamdub Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Had to laugh at the BBC Reporter outside Ibrox, who claimed that Rangers had "gone to court this morning to confirm that the debt had been paid in full". I'm sure he'll still be welcome at Ibrox, while his media colleagues from The Herald, The Evening Times, and The Sunday Herald, are not. They reported that Rangers were dragged back into Court this morning for failing to comply with the previous Court agreement, and were forced into making the payment today. Did they get a receipt ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Root Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 I get the feeling that this will end with rangers in administration. If hmrc are calling in debts and rangers can't or won't pay, eventually they'll issue a winding up order and force the issue. A sad day for all connected to Scottish football If by "sad" you actually mean "******* tremendous" I entirely agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottish_chicP Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 If by "sad" you actually mean "******* tremendous" I entirely agree. I'm with him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasman Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Did they get a receipt ??? I did notice it was paid directly into their bank account, they didn't just accept a cheque.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Root Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 I'm with him Well well you saucy mare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMc Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 I would be happy enough to see Rangers go under. Duopolies in football seem to last much longer than monopolies. The ugly sisters, Barca and Real are examples of this whereas Ajax once seemed untouchable at the top of the Dutch league. Also they stand for all that is evil in Scotland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deevers Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 I'll be there are quite a few of Rangers creditors very worried tonight given today events. I just hope that we got all our money for Lee Wallace up front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 If by "sad" you actually mean "******* tremendous" I entirely agree. Yup, singing from the same hymnsheet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasman Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Well well you saucy mare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_T Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 I'll be there are quite a few of Rangers creditors very worried tonight given today events. I just hope that we got all our money for Lee Wallace up front. It's in 3 installments of ?500,000 apparently. I was quite vocal on here at the time regarding my fear that we would not see all of this money and I remain of that opinion. Still I'm sure VR will be easy to deal with when Rangers have to negotiate a CVA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rubble Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 I get the feeling that this will end with rangers in administration. If hmrc are calling in debts and rangers can't or won't pay, eventually they'll issue a winding up order and force the issue. A sad day for all connected to Scottish football I get all warm and tingly when i think of this , sad never gets a feckin look in ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasman Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 I'll be there are quite a few of Rangers creditors very worried tonight given today events. I just hope that we got all our money for Lee Wallace up front. If we haven't got all the money for Wallace, I'd guess that Rangers would be in deeper shit than us. The transfer window's closed, so they can't give him back to us, and he's out injured just now anyway. If they renege/miss a payment, they could (theoretically) be suspended from the league, and there would be a problem over whether LW had actually been eligible to play in the games he already has. My understanding (not ITK!) is that we have been paid, but if not, the pain for Rangers will be far more than that felt by us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplesimon Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 What scottish football needs is a redistribution of income away from the old firm. even they are starting to see this but they will not be able to sign up for a change in allocation of tv or gate money while they are in this mess. I would love to see rangers have to restart in the 3rd division. most likely they would do an airdrie though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboruss Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 I'm with him me three! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey J J Jr Shabadoo Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 I'll be there are quite a few of Rangers creditors very worried tonight given today events. I just hope that we got all our money for Lee Wallace up front. If they don't pay what we're due, can we not just take him back? Surely the law would be on our side, like in any other business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambojack Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 When Sir D M sold the club was the selling price not ?1.00 with the understanding that he settled this outstanding tax bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 . Still I'm sure VR will be easy to deal with when Rangers have to negotiate a CVA. If the rules in Scotland are the same as the rules in England then rangers would need to pay all their football debts in full to retain membership of the SPL. So all money that isn't clause related would have to be paid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 If the rules in Scotland are the same as the rules in England then rangers would need to pay all their football debts in full to retain membership of the SPL. So all money that isn't clause related would have to be paid The SPL have different rules re the repayment of footballing debt. There is no preferential creditor rule in the SPL should a club go into administration. However there is a rule, that if a club fails to pay a debt to another member club, then the SPL will withhold any payments due to be paid to the defaulting club and pass the sum onto the creditor club. e.g. if RFC defaulted on a payment for Wallace, then the SPL could use the TV money due to go to RFC to pay Hearts what they are due. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Paying at the very last minute is normal practice for big businesses. Isn't it ? it's actually the sign of hugely astute businessmen.... That said fingers crossed but rangers seem in way more trouble than we ever have been under vlad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshallschunkychicken Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 When Sir D M sold the club was the selling price not ?1.00 with the understanding that he settled this outstanding tax bill. You can't just assign a tax bill to someone. Once David Murray sold the club, his involvement ceased. The tax bill relates to Rangers, they resolve it or they go under - HMRC pursue the company who created the liability, regardless of ownership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigC Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 Lots for the amateur tax experts to pour over here: http://rangerstaxcase.com/2011/09/10/martin-bain-his-lawyers-rangers-insolvency/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamboman1512 Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 If by "sad" you actually mean "******* tremendous" I entirely agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigolo-Aunt Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 From all reports, the bid by Leicester was a genuine one, cannot understand if things are that bad at Ibrox that they would have much choice in the Jelavic deal. How come they could go out and buy the players they did in the transfer window? First to admit, the financial side of football is something that is a bit of a head **** to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McJambo Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 If you've got a spare bit of time read the download available on the blog linked a few posts above. Rangers Tax Case. The last few pages are pretty interesting. A potential tax bill of ?49 million, Whyte only prepared to pay ?10-15million and he hasn't been paying his creditors lately! All according to Martin Bain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 When Sir D M sold the club was the selling price not ?1.00 with the understanding that he settled this outstanding tax bill. I'm sure it was when Whyte's due dilligence uneartheed the previously unknown ?2.4m tax bill - he told SDM to do a bolt on being paid anything for his shares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floyd Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 Lots for the amateur tax experts to pour over here: http://rangerstaxcase.com/2011/09/10/martin-bain-his-lawyers-rangers-insolvency/ Wouldn't dare claim to be a tax expert but this made for interesting reading nonetheless. It seems that despite Whyte claiming he would put money in and ringfence the season ticket sales cash to pay the ?2.8M tax liability, he instead used a finance company to arrange immediate cash flow. Anyone else got visions of him phoning Wonga or is it just me?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floyd Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Just heard this, but not sure if its 100% true on not, but here goes: 1. It has been confirmed that Rangers' bank accounts have been frozen by the bank today. 2. If they don't pay HMRC the small bill that they owe them by Monday, they will be placed into administration. The big bill is still pending. 3. Should that happen all season tickets,VIP boxes, game packages etc, will be null & void. 4. They will not be allowed any credit facilities,so it will be 'cash only' gates at Ibrox. 5. Rangers faxed a letter to the bank yesterday,saying that Liverpool made a ?9M bid for Jelavic so that they could register him as a ?9M asset with the bank. Apparently Kenny Dalglish went nuts as no such offer was made by Liverpool. They are consulting their lawyers & considering legal action. Looks like some of this is coming true after all, despite the protestations of others........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meadows Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Anyone else think Martin bain is a complete to$$er? He presided over the demise,then twists the knife from outside. Apart from that,stuff rangers!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bilel Mohsni Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 He is a complete to$$er, absolutely he is... But since he is causing Rangers harm, I am inclined to stand about cheering him on right now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P-Dizzle Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 As someone who's not followed this story in that much detail, can someone explain how HMRC allowed Rangers to defer payments to the point that they're now looking to recoup somewhere in the region of ?50M? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunks Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 As someone who's not followed this story in that much detail, can someone explain how HMRC allowed Rangers to defer payments to the point that they're now looking to recoup somewhere in the region of ?50M? In summary, their ?20K per week players received a "salary" of ?150 per week and the difference was placed in an off shore fund - tax free. The legal debate will be around Tax Avoidance v Tax Evasion. Hopefully the courts find it to be the latter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P-Dizzle Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Surely Rangers must've known that they were on shaky ground with this one? The whole story is one massive ball of ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad-Stupid Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Anyone else think Martin bain is a complete to$$er? He presided over the demise,then twists the knife from outside. Apart from that,stuff rangers!! God bless the two faced ***** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cardiac Rucksack Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Surely Rangers must've known that they were on shaky ground with this one? The whole story is one massive ball of ****. Rangers chosen accountants decided this was avoidance, when in fact legally its evasion. Its a very fine line though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
269miles Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 As someone who's not followed this story in that much detail, can someone explain how HMRC allowed Rangers to defer payments to the point that they're now looking to recoup somewhere in the region of ?50M? My understanding is RFC didn't defer any payments. Players wages were paid into a trust - which RFC believed would mean the payments would not be liable to tax. The players continued to draw their contracted salaries in this manner via the trust without any tax deduction. What I'd like to know is , why has it taken HMRC so long to decide this was tax evasion ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P-Dizzle Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Have the government brought in their plans to tighten up tax evasion yet? Or maybe after clubs like Portsmouth had their problems HMRC just took a harder line in future? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 My understanding is RFC didn't defer any payments. Players wages were paid into a trust - which RFC believed would mean the payments would not be liable to tax. The players continued to draw their contracted salaries in this manner via the trust without any tax deduction. What I'd like to know is , why has it taken HMRC so long to decide this was tax evasion ? EBTs are legal when used as designed, but some football clubs have let's say bent the rules somewhat. Such schemes ran for a few years before HMRC became aware of them. How does HMRC become aware of people avoiding tax? The EBT schemes only came to light with Arsenal, when Ray Parlour was asked to reveal his earings in court in a divorce case. Arsenal subsequently settled out of court for a reported ?11M in 2005. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article576436.ece HMRC did change the rules after that, but tax advisors have argued the case that such schemes were and still are legal. Each one has been slightly different in the way they have operated and HMRC have had to go through the Tribunal process with appeals etc. The RFC case started in 2010. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 This is one of the rare occasions I will be cheering on the tax man. The more in the doo Rangers are the better and itnmihjt actually be a pleasure reading the Daily Record and listening to Chic Dung though they will probably blain the tax man and talk up Rangers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory House M.D. Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 You have to laugh at the Weegie Media sometimes. Rangers have ?480,000 frozen by a judge who says: There is a real and substantial risk of insolvency if the tax case were to be decided against Rangers This all coming after they were in court after failing to pay a miniscule legal fee. Yet not one cracked crest? No IBROX IN CRISIS Headlines? No, instead we're told of the Whyte Knights heroic plans to implement cuts. We're given a club statement saying "This action was intended to embarrass the club." Which had vlad said it, it would've been stated as further evidence of "The Baltic Banker's" paranoia. It's absolutely incredible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Rangers must be pulling in the favours from our press.Imagine the media frenzy if it was us in their position,headline news,cameras outside Tynecastle,former players being interviewed outside the ground,financial experts asked on their views.Ring any bells? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory House M.D. Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Rangers must be pulling in the favours from our press.Imagine the media frenzy if it was us in their position,headline news,cameras outside Tynecastle,former players being interviewed outside the ground,financial experts asked on their views.Ring any bells? Exactly. There would've been queues of ex-jambos like MacPherson, Henry Smith, Gary Mackay etc. The national boss would be headline news talking about us. They'd have a 4-page spread of our approaching demise. It's Rangers though so all we've had is a judge and Rangers' owner. Would Vlad be given a chance to explain? Even if he did, the finnished article would be riddled with snide remarks and ridicule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 If the HMRC saga goes the way we all hope it will, then there will come a point when it no longer becomes possible for the media to paper over the cracks. That will be a pleasing moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_hmfc Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 :interesting: So what date is the tax court case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory House M.D. Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 If the HMRC saga goes the way we all hope it will, then there will come a point when it no longer becomes possible for the media to paper over the cracks. That will be a pleasing moment. I'm actually picturing them cracking the SPL badge just to avoid defacing the Rangers crest. Also could see them pitching it as a Scottish footballing disaster and saying we'll soon be at the league of Wales' standard. TBH, if it meant getting rid of 50% of Scottish footballs cancer, I'd rejoice at being the worlds worst league. It really wouldn't surprise me if it's soon painted as the whole SPL's demise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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