World Snooker Championship 2011

[Victorian]

i don't like higgins. i didn't much like him before the betting scandal thing and probably less so now. i really do think there's far more to it than what eventually happened and that his explanation of events was accepted too easily and his subsequent return to the good books was too easy.

 

he might be far less guilty than i suspect him to be and we'll probably never know.

[Randy Marsh]

No he's not.

 

The only "disgrace" was Higgins' manager, who at no point ever told his player what he was discussing. He's been banned for life, and rightly so. The only mistake Higgins made was not to immediately report what had happened to the authorities.

 

An independent tribunal believed Higgins' explanation, and so do I. He is an extremely wealthy man who hardly needs any extra cash, and has always demonstrated total respect for the sport, and its history: he's the last person who'd ever do what he was accused of.

 

Meanwhile, the News of the World were asked by snooker's governing body to hand over all their tapes unedited. They said they'd only do if Higgins promised not to sue them.

 

Draw your own conclusions.

 

Perhaps I was being a bit harsh.

 

However, Higgins flew all the way out to Ukraine to meet those people. Surely he would have known what he was getting himself into?

[shaun.lawson]

Perhaps I was being a bit harsh.

 

However, Higgins flew all the way out to Ukraine to meet those people. Surely he would have known what he was getting himself into?

 

He didn't. And had he remained in the World Championship, he wouldn't even have been present at the meeting.

 

It's a curious one, this. Ever since his return, with a reputation to completely rebuild and a father who has since passed away, Higgins has been a man possessed. But if he wins this tournament, people will whisper that this makes his defeat by Steve Davis last year all the more incredible - and hence, suspicious. In that sense, he can't win - but the details of the case have been very well documented, and I know who I believe.

[Randy Marsh]

He didn't. And had he remained in the World Championship, he wouldn't even have been present at the meeting.

 

It's a curious one, this. Ever since his return, with a reputation to completely rebuild and a father who has since passed away, Higgins has been a man possessed. But if he wins this tournament, people will whisper that this makes his defeat by Steve Davis last year all the more incredible - and hence, suspicious. In that sense, he can't win - but the details of the case have been very well documented, and I know who I believe.

 

 

I reckon Davis just played out of his skin for one last time last year. Cant imagine there was anything suspicious going on in the match. If there had been I am sure there would have been iregular betting patterns on Davis to win that match.

 

Its quite sad that the scandal is what Higgins will be remembered for rather than an outstanding player.

[shaun.lawson]

I reckon Davis just played out of his skin for one last time last year. Cant imagine there was anything suspicious going on in the match. If there had been I am sure there would have been iregular betting patterns on Davis to win that match.

 

Its quite sad that the scandal is what Higgins will be remembered for rather than an outstanding player.

 

Yes, very much so. If he wins the title, I think that makes him the fourth best player of all time - but there will always be muttering and suspicion about what happened.

 

Higgins' choice of shot near the end of that last frame - trying to swerve with a spider, for heavens sake - suggests his thinking isn't as clear as it should be. But fortunately for him, Williams has gone right off the boil, and is making mistake after mistake. Could be all over very shortly at this rate.

[shaun.lawson]

Williams had 'gone' by the end there. That's as badly as I've ever seen him succumb to pressure. I think what happened in the UK final - when he was again 9-5 up on Higgins - really affected him.

 

I can't call the final: Higgins is favourite because of his experience, and because he's a man on a mission. But Trump isn't missing anything at all. In a sense, the match is in the latter's hands: if he plays as well as he can, he can do it. But in a world final, at the age of 21, against an absolute iron man of an opponent? It's an incredibly tough ask.

 

Higgins 18-14, or Trump 18-16. Could be either really.

[Larry]

Well done to Higgins. Hope Trump pumps him in the final, would be great for snooker.

[Deek]

Higgins 18-14, or Trump 18-16. Could be either really.

 

[2NaFish]

 

Higgins 18-14, or Trump 18-16. Could be either really.

 

from this i'd say the only thing you're sure of is that the eventual winner will have 18.

[shaun.lawson]

 

 

from this i'd say the only thing you're sure of is that the eventual winner will have 18.

 

 

 

 

[Larry]

13/8 for Trump to win? That's tempting!

[Beats]

Higgins is a filthy cheat.

 

Can't stand the *****

[shaun.lawson]

Higgins is a filthy cheat.

 

Can't stand the *****

 

Believing the News of the World.

 

Who, to repeat, refused to hand over the full, unedited tapes unless Higgins promised not to sue them. What does that tell you?

[The Merse]

Believing the News of the World.

 

Who, to repeat, refused to hand over the full, unedited tapes unless Higgins promised not to sue them. What does that tell you?

 

I'm not one for condeming folk who are entrapped by scum like the NOTW but that video was horrendous.

 

Higgins was so relaxed in the video it was disgusting.

[Boris]

I like Higgins. Hope he goes all the way and wins it.

[Stanley_]

I like Higgins. Hope he goes all the way and wins it.

 

This.

[shaun.lawson]

Ted Lowe RIP. An extraordinary commentator: we'll never see your like again, Ted.

 

A minute's applause in memory of the great man before the final begins,

[Flux]

Dundee Utd fan is back

[Victorian]

glad that others have are also very sceptical of the higgins affair. it smells.

 

ted lowe is dead.

 

 

RIP legend.

[Ivan Drago]

story of the black ball final coming on bbc2 just now, well worth a watch

[shaun.lawson]

story of the black ball final coming on bbc2 just now, well worth a watch

 

I could never get enough of this match. I've read so many accounts of it and watched the footage so many times.

 

A couple of asides about the 1985 Championship. Many observers assume Taylor must have been a lucky Champion - yet his incredible feat of conceding just 18 frames over his first four matches remains a Crucible record. Both Hendry and Davis had a best of 20 conceded.

 

Even more remarkable is that Taylor won it despite the toughest draw from 2nd round to final that a Champion has ever negotiated: 6th seed Eddie Charlton in the last 16; 3rd seed Cliff Thorburn (who Taylor walloped 13-5) in the quarters; 2nd seed Tony Knowles, destroyed 16-5 in the semis. Taylor is also the only player to have beaten every one of the top three seeds to win the trophy.

 

Taylor had lost the 1981 Jameson International Final 9-0 to Davis (after which, he had to go back out into the arena to perform trick shots for the crowd!); and despite everything I've written above, I still believe if Davis had potted the green to go 9-0 up, it genuinely could've ended up 18-0. Davis was playing that well; Taylor could barely hide his embarrassment. As it was, the snooker Taylor played over the rest of the second session to reduce his arrears from 1-9 to 7-9 was the best of his life. The match was won and lost there, in many ways.

 

Oh, one final stat. At no point in the final was Taylor ever ahead... until he potted the final black. How cool is that?!

[Jamboelite]

I could never get enough of this match. I've read so many accounts of it and watched the footage so many times.

 

A couple of asides about the 1985 Championship. Many observers assume Taylor must have been a lucky Champion - yet his incredible feat of conceding just 18 frames over his first four matches remains a Crucible record. Both Hendry and Davis had a best of 20 conceded.

 

Even more remarkable is that Taylor won it despite the toughest draw from 2nd round to final that a Champion has ever negotiated: 6th seed Eddie Charlton in the last 16; 3rd seed Cliff Thorburn (who Taylor walloped 13-5) in the quarters; 2nd seed Tony Knowles, destroyed 16-5 in the semis. Taylor is also the only player to have beaten every one of the top three seeds to win the trophy.

 

Taylor had lost the 1981 Jameson International Final 9-0 to Davis (after which, he had to go back out into the arena to perform trick shots for the crowd!); and despite everything I've written above, I still believe if Davis had potted the green to go 9-0 up, it genuinely could've ended up 18-0. Davis was playing that well; Taylor could barely hide his embarrassment. As it was, the snooker Taylor played over the rest of the second session to reduce his arrears from 1-9 to 7-9 was the best of his life. The match was won and lost there, in many ways.

 

Oh, one final stat. At no point in the final was Taylor ever ahead... until he potted the final black. How cool is that?!

 

 

That's quite interesting Shaun I didn't realise his previous rounds that year were so tough, as a 9yr old I only ever remember being allowed to stay up and watch it and as I was a Davis fan I was gutted.

 

He certainly wasn't a luck champion that's for sure although Davis should still have won it at the end.

[Victorian]

davis should have won that final and to be quite honest, i wish he had. then again, if he had he might not have lost to joe johnson the next year and possibly would have had 8 titles to eclipse hendry. then again he did win 87/88/89... which he might not have done otherwise.

[shaun.lawson]

davis should have won that final and to be quite honest, i wish he had. then again, if he had he might not have lost to joe johnson the next year and possibly would have had 8 titles to eclipse hendry. then again he did win 87/88/89... which he might not have done otherwise.

 

If he hadn't lost in '85 (which partly owed to him losing to Alex Higgins from 7-0 up in the 1983 UK final), he'd never have lost in '86... and in that case, would probably have won eight titles in nine years! He was a winning machine, as Barry Hearn said: one very few players could get near most of the time.

 

Gotta love Mark Williams saying "if he'd had a bit of bottle, he'd have won seven titles" - LOL! And poor Steve must be so sick of being asked about that match again and again. Imagine being an all time legend of the game - probably its second best player ever - with six world titles; yet all anyone ever wants to know is "how did you manage to lose it, Steve?" He handles that with marvellous dignity and humour, I'd say.

 

That was a fabulous programme which I'd not seen before: big to colincameronspenalty for mentioning it was on. Very emotional show, which captured wonderfully what it did for the people of Coalisland - and the whole of Northern Ireland - and how much Dennis' victory owed to the bond he'd had with his mother. Her death, which hit him like nothing else he's ever experienced, actually freed him up psychologically: providing massive extra motivation to win tournaments (the 1984 Grand Prix as well as the 1985 world title) for his grieving family, and a sense of perspective that it was, after all, just a snooker match.

[Moriarty]

Standards are rising all the time - and nowadays, the World Championship is incredibly unpredictable. John Higgins, Mark Williams, defending Champion Neil Robertson, Ding Junhui, Mark Selby, Shaun Murphy, Stephen Maguire and Ronnie O'Sullivan all enter the event with a serious chance - and the likes of Ali Carter or Mark Allen cannot be ignored either.

 

I think you missed someone off your list of contenders Shaun. Surpising considering it is so long

[jambos are go!]

davis should have won that final and to be quite honest, i wish he had. then again, if he had he might not have lost to joe johnson the next year and possibly would have had 8 titles to eclipse hendry. then again he did win 87/88/89... which he might not have done otherwise.

Joe Johnson showed that an decent professional on fire can beat anybody. And he was on fire throughout the competition IIRC. Davis said something along the lines that he had no complaints about losing the final because he was never in it.

[shaun.lawson]

I think you missed someone of your list of contenders Shaun. Surpising considering it is so long

 

Indeed! But in fairness, bloody no-one thought Trump could do this this early in his career. If he wins the title, he'll be the most sensational Champion ever.

 

I did at least suggest he'd probably knock defending Champion Robertson out; and referred to Trump as a "star of the future". I just didn't realise the future was only a couple of weeks away...

[Victorian]

If he hadn't lost in '85 (which partly owed to him losing to Alex Higgins from 7-0 up in the 1983 UK final), he'd never have lost in '86... and in that case, would probably have won eight titles in nine years! He was a winning machine, as Barry Hearn said: one very few players could get near most of the time.

 

Gotta love Mark Williams saying "if he'd had a bit of bottle, he'd have won seven titles" - LOL! And poor Steve must be so sick of being asked about that match again and again. Imagine being an all time legend of the game - probably its second best player ever - with six world titles; yet all anyone ever wants to know is "how did you manage to lose it, Steve?" He handles that with marvellous dignity and humour, I'd say.

 

That was a fabulous programme which I'd not seen before: big to colincameronspenalty for mentioning it was on. Very emotional show, which captured wonderfully what it did for the people of Coalisland - and the whole of Northern Ireland - and how much Dennis' victory owed to the bond he'd had with his mother. Her death, which hit him like nothing else he's ever experienced, actually freed him up psychologically: providing massive extra motivation to win tournaments (the 1984 Grand Prix as well as the 1985 world title) for his grieving family, and a sense of perspective that it was, after all, just a snooker match.

 

 

Joe Johnson showed that an decent professional on fire can beat anybody. And he was on fire throughout the competition IIRC. Davis said something along the lines that he had no complaints about losing the final because he was never in it.

 

davis at his best would never have lost either of the finals in '85 or '86. it might even be that he appeared to be losing his grip at that stage. all the more remarkable then that he won the next 3 titles. playing johnson again in '87 may have helped in that there was a score to settle. winning another title at that stage put him back where he should always have been.

[shaun.lawson]

Joe Johnson showed that an decent professional on fire can beat anybody. And he was on fire throughout the competition IIRC. Davis said something along the lines that he had no complaints about losing the final because he was never in it.

 

Johnson indeed played incredibly well. 12-9 down to Terry Griffiths in the quarter-finals, something just happened to him: something bordering on the miraculous. Because he'd never played like he did over the rest of the tournament, before or since.

 

But Johnson was only 13-11 up going into the final session against Davis - and what I think happened is all the psychological scars of the previous year opened up in Steve's head. That's why I don't think Johnson would've won had Davis won, not lost, against Taylor. And that Davis actually scored more points than Johnson in the final - despite losing 18-12 - rather suggests he was in it, but that Joe kept stealing incredible frames. Hence the late Ted Lowe's description of it as:

 

"The most remarkable world final he'd ever seen".

[269miles]

glad that others have are also very sceptical of the higgins affair. it smells.

 

ted lowe is dead.

 

 

RIP legend.

 

When Higgins played Ding in the UK final a year or two back there were very few people applauding him.

 

Personally I hope he gets Trumped but I think he'll grind the young lad into the dust.

[shaun.lawson]

davis at his best would never have lost either of the finals in '85 or '86. it might even be that he appeared to be losing his grip at that stage. all the more remarkable then that he won the next 3 titles. playing johnson again in '87 may have helped in that there was a score to settle. winning another title at that stage put him back where he should always have been.

 

Yes, it definitely re-motivated and refocused him. Bear in mind that he kept dominating the circuit throughout 1985/6 and 1986/7, but there were occasional wobbles: falling over the line 10-9 against Taylor in the 1985 Grand Prix final, after losing a 5-1 lead, for example. Johnson actually recovered from 10-14 to 13-14 against Davis in the 1987 final, at which point the unthinkable became possible - but Johnson couldn't ever have won it more than once, and was much more himself as a member of snooker's supporting cast. Up until his shock run to the final, his year as Champion had been a nightmare.

 

Then, from 1987 to 1989, Davis actually went up a gear, and moved further ahead of his rivals than ever. There were whitewashes of Mike Hallett in the 1988 Masters final, and Dean Reynolds in the 1989 Grand Prix final, as well as a 1989 world title secured with just 23 frames conceded all tournament. The most incredible thing about this is that, by late 1988, Davis had developed a serious technical flaw which swept through his game virus like once Hendry had caught him. That Davis kept on dominating for another year in spite of this is testimony to quite awesome powers of mental strength, and to the aura he enjoyed over his opponents.

[Victorian]

Yes, it definitely re-motivated and refocused him. Bear in mind that he kept dominating the circuit throughout 1985/6 and 1986/7, but there were occasional wobbles: falling over the line 10-9 against Taylor in the 1985 Grand Prix final, after losing a 5-1 lead, for example. Johnson actually recovered from 10-14 to 13-14 against Davis in the 1987 final, at which point the unthinkable became possible - but Johnson couldn't ever have won it more than once, and was much more himself as a member of snooker's supporting cast. Up until his shock run to the final, his year as Champion had been a nightmare.

 

Then, from 1987 to 1989, Davis actually went up a gear, and moved further ahead of his rivals than ever. There were whitewashes of Mike Hallett in the 1988 Masters final, and Dean Reynolds in the 1989 Grand Prix final, as well as a 1989 world title secured with just 23 frames conceded all tournament. The most incredible thing about this is that, by late 1988, Davis had developed a serious technical flaw which swept through his game virus like once Hendry had caught him. That Davis kept on dominating for another year in spite of this is testimony to quite awesome powers of mental strength, and to the aura he enjoyed over his opponents.

 

must admit that i did not know that he developed a problem in his game. you would never have known that the way he eventually came back and played some tremendous snooker. i always just assumed he had let his competitiveness to slide a bit due to other life influences etc etc.

[Victorian]

hendry having a 'mare commentating.

[shaun.lawson]

must admit that i did not know that he developed a problem in his game. you would never have known that the way he eventually came back and played some tremendous snooker. i always just assumed he had let his competitiveness to slide a bit due to other life influences etc etc.

 

He started cueing across the ball, and couldn't correct it. This rendered 1989-1992 a nightmare for him. Then, with the help of the great Frank Callan (the coach who was behind Doug Mountjoy's incredible resurgence at the 1988 UK Championship, and who also helped Hendry and Terry Griffiths overcome certain issues), he finally rectified it, and despite the game's standard having shot up in the interim, enjoyed a marvellously consistent next two years: to the point whereby he was the provisional world number one going to the Crucible in 1994.

 

There, he met Hendry in the semi-finals; a Hendry with a fractured elbow too. He led 9-8, but lost 16-9, and his ambitions to win a seventh world title finally expired. When he potted the match winning ball, Hendry bowed his head for a moment, trying to hold himself together: that was a huge match in both players' careers. Ridiculous though it seems now, many had publicly doubted Hendry before the tournament, and suggested Davis was now the better player again: Stephen's response ended the debate once and for all.

[Ivan Drago]

If he hadn't lost in '85 (which partly owed to him losing to Alex Higgins from 7-0 up in the 1983 UK final), he'd never have lost in '86... and in that case, would probably have won eight titles in nine years! He was a winning machine, as Barry Hearn said: one very few players could get near most of the time.

 

Gotta love Mark Williams saying "if he'd had a bit of bottle, he'd have won seven titles" - LOL! And poor Steve must be so sick of being asked about that match again and again. Imagine being an all time legend of the game - probably its second best player ever - with six world titles; yet all anyone ever wants to know is "how did you manage to lose it, Steve?" He handles that with marvellous dignity and humour, I'd say.

 

That was a fabulous programme which I'd not seen before: big to colincameronspenalty for mentioning it was on. Very emotional show, which captured wonderfully what it did for the people of Coalisland - and the whole of Northern Ireland - and how much Dennis' victory owed to the bond he'd had with his mother. Her death, which hit him like nothing else he's ever experienced, actually freed him up psychologically: providing massive extra motivation to win tournaments (the 1984 Grand Prix as well as the 1985 world title) for his grieving family, and a sense of perspective that it was, after all, just a snooker match.

 

surprised you havent seen it before, it was on last year

[shaun.lawson]

surprised you havent seen it before, it was on last year

 

Yep - but I don't have a telly, so I watched it this evening on tvcatchup.

[Harry Palmer]

Could be a good one...

[Harry Palmer]

Trump seems to know no fear....

 

Good Hendry is in the box. Keeps the enthusiasm down.

[shaun.lawson]

The pattern of a good number of modern day world finals has been set in the second session. Hendry drew away from White in 1990 and 1993, Bond in 1995 and Ebdon in 1996; Doherty moved into an almost insurmountable lead in 1997, Ebdon into a big one in 2002; Dott left Ebdon with far too much to do in 2006.

 

And many of those sessions were characterised by one player going right off the boil, and making strange technical errors. That's what's happening to John Higgins right now. Trump must take advantage of it - because with a good night's sleep, Higgins will be a different player tomorrow.

[Beats]

Believing the News of the World.

 

Who, to repeat, refused to hand over the full, unedited tapes unless Higgins promised not to sue them. What does that tell you?

 

 

Just noticed this.

 

Shaun I don't like Higgins and think he is a dirty cheat

[Harry Palmer]

Trump to win.

[shaun.lawson]

Just noticed this.

 

Shaun I don't like Higgins and think he is a dirty cheat

 

I get the feeling you didn't like him even prior to the scandal - and that this dislike was shared by many for some reason. Apart from him being a Celtic fan, why?

[Victorian]

trump bashing them in all over the gaff. as shaun suggests, higgins will have to stay close in the final half-session by winning at least 2 frames or he's goosed.

[shaun.lawson]

Trump to win.

 

If he's 10-6 up overnight, I agree - albeit he could get nervous near the winning line. If it's only 9-7, I still favour Higgins' experience TBH. Next four frames are massive.

[Beats]

I get the feeling you didn't like him even prior to the scandal - and that this dislike was shared by many for some reason. Apart from him being a Celtic fan, why?

 

 

Always thought he was a dick

[Moriarty]

 

lovely snooker.

[Chris Benoit]

 

lovely snooker.

 

 

Fantastic not really saw much of Trump before is that just the kind of player he is?

[shaun.lawson]

Always thought he was a dick

 

Seriously? Williams is cocky, with a sense of humour that doesn't appeal to everyone; O'Sullivan is undoubtedly a ******. But Higgins? If anything, Higgins went through a prolonged period of poor form largely because he's too nice and well rounded (in more ways than one nowadays ): unusually so for a top sportsman.

 

But hey ho, we can like who we want and dislike who we want. All part of sport really.

[Victorian]

higgins is a wrong 'un shaun.

[Larry]

If he's 10-6 up overnight, I agree - albeit he could get nervous near the winning line. If it's only 9-7, I still favour Higgins' experience TBH. Next four frames are massive.

 

Playing 9 frames tonight, but 10-7 Trump and I'll feel confident he can go on and win it tomorrow. 9-8 and you've got to fancy higgins.