Tonight's televised debate

[Ulysses]

Cameron lost most of the points at issue.....

 

 

.....but I think he won the debate.

[Gigolo-Aunt]

I think the above is complete nonsense. I reckon the public will have scored it Clegg-Cameron-Brown. I also reckon you have pre-conceived ideas about Cameron which will influence your views anyway.

 

Oops

 

edit

[shaun.lawson]

All change it seems, GB has surged past them - dissapointing for me as the guy is a liar but as I never watched it, I do not know how he performed on the day - will still never vote for the lying incompetent oaf though.

 

GB - 35%

NC - 33%

DC - 32%

 

Pretty close.

 

If that's accurate - and all the polls are showing wildly differing outcomes - that's remarkable; and shows that none of them really lost anything.

[The Mighty Thor]

ITN showing a result of

 

43% Clegg

26% Dave

20% Brown

 

sample of 4000 voters.

[Templeton Peck]

Alistair Campbell sexing up the poll results on Sky News "Gordon had a good night"

 

Every other indication of the night....Goodnight Gordon

[shaun.lawson]

Cameron lost most of the points at issue.....

 

 

.....but I think he won the debate.

 

I did think he was good at cutting in and putting Clegg under scrutiny during the first half of the programme. Beyond that, I also thought it was a surprisingly good debate, and good for politics.

[The People's Chimp]

SKY News afet 90 minutes is:

 

DC - 53%

NC - 28%

GB - 19%

 

I never actually watched but would be delighted it this is accurate and incompetenant, constantly lying Brown is bottom of the pile.

 

What a surprise from sky news. How anyone could think that call me dave came out of that with an ounce of credibility is beyond me.

[The Mighty Thor]

Now that odious little Osborne is on telling us Cameron done good.

 

He's definitely been podgered by Dave. No Question of it. Eton. Toes touched. Game over.

[P-Dizzle]

Now that odious little Osborne is on telling us Cameron done good.

 

He's definitely been podgered by Dave. No Question of it. Eton. Toes touched. Game over.

 

Toes and heels.

 

But whos heels?

[Private Hudson]

I think the above is complete nonsense. I reckon the public will have scored it Clegg-Cameron-Brown. I also reckon you have pre-conceived ideas about Cameron which will influence your views anyway.

 

You do. Naw, you, do. NAW, YOU DO! etc...

I do and I'm man enough to admit it.

[Ulysses]

I did think he was good at cutting in and putting Clegg under scrutiny during the first half of the programme. Beyond that, I also thought it was a surprisingly good debate, and good for politics.

 

I suppose that's one way of looking at it.

[P-Dizzle]

Lawson is a closet Tory.

[shaun.lawson]

You do. Naw, you, do. NAW, YOU DO! etc...

 

I think it's time for Punch and Judy politics to end.

[shaun.lawson]

Lawson is a closet Tory.

 

Bollocks I am! I've often been accused of it though. Probably because some people think I'm a bit posh, also because I'm an individual, and crave personal freedom. But not, please note, economic freedom; which is what's always made me a natural Lib Dem, but not a natural Labour supporter at all.

 

Anyway - I think my old acquaintance Lena, who I knew on my Masters course at LSE, is doing a grand job as Clegg's Head of Communications. She's the reason he did so well I reckon.

[Private Hudson]

Bollocks I am! I've often been accused of it though. Probably because some people think I'm a bit posh, also because I'm an individual, and crave personal freedom. But not, please note, economic freedom; which is what's always made me a natural Lib Dem, but not a natural Labour supporter at all.

 

Anyway - I think my old acquaintance Lena, who I knew on my Masters course at LSE, is doing a grand job as Clegg's Head of Communications. She's the reason he did so well I reckon.

 

Checkmate!

[shaun.lawson]

Checkmate!

 

Last I checked, a fair bit of Edinburgh was a bit posh too...

[P-Dizzle]

Bollocks I am! I've often been accused of it though. Probably because some people think I'm a bit posh, also because I'm an individual, and crave personal freedom. But not, please note, economic freedom; which is what's always made me a natural Lib Dem, but not a natural Labour supporter at all.

 

I think you knew I was joking.

[The People's Chimp]

Really quite interesting to hear the polls putting cameron in with a good result. He said absolutely nothing for 90 minutes.

[Private Hudson]

Last I checked, a fair bit of Edinburgh was a bit posh too...

 

Ah, but I live in Surrey! Oh, wait a minute...

[shaun.lawson]

Really quite interesting to hear the polls putting cameron in with a good result. He said absolutely nothing for 90 minutes.

 

He doesn't have to. He seems to be winning anyway. Which I can't quite figure out, but that's politics I guess.

[The Real Maroonblood]

What a surprise from sky news. How anyone could think that call me dave came out of that with an ounce of credibility is beyond me.

Sky News part of the Murdoch Mafia.

No surprise there.

[P-Dizzle]

John Sargeant was spot on with what he said on QT.

[chester copperpot]

Very surprised Cameron bombed if I'm honest, thought he would do quite well.

[The Mighty Thor]

If you want to see the living embodiement of Harry Enfield's Tory Boy tune into Question Time.

 

Michael Gove is on.

[2NaFish]

If you want to see the living embodiement of Harry Enfield's Tory Boy tune into Question Time.

 

Michael Gove is on.

 

He said john sargeant was wrong in what he said, but that we cant trust any politician's view on the matter.

[Gorgiewave]

John Sargeant was spot on with what he said on QT.

 

 

Which was?

[shaun.lawson]

If you want to see the living embodiement of Harry Enfield's Tory Boy tune into Question Time.

 

Michael Gove is on.

 

Think you might be interested in this, TMT:

 

http://blogs.mirror.co.uk/maguire/2010/03/michael-gove-has-come-a-long-w.html

 

To give Gove his due, he is phenomenally smart. I do broadly agree though. 13 years ago at UEA, one of the first people I met was a chap called Antony Little, who made no secret of being a Tory at a time Tory-bashing was a national sport. We all took the piss: he was 18 going on 38, and to put it politely, somewhat eccentric. I've never met more of a stereotypical Tory boy than him; but right now, he's only weeks away from becoming Conservative MP for Norwich South. So I guess he's had the last laugh really.

[Moriarty]

I live in Edinburgh West. That's been a Lib Dem seat for my entire life. But John Barrett is standing down at this election. I'm not sure how that seat will swing as he stands down. Anything other than Tory is fine by me.

 

Lib Dems have always done well in edinburgh west I would trust them to pick a decent replacement.

[P-Dizzle]

Which was?

 

Clegg came out on top. Did himself a lot of good, and had a strong performance. Brown defended his policies without much contention. Cameron underperformed.

 

More or less.

[chester copperpot]

Lib Dems have always done well in edinburgh west I would trust them to pick a decent replacement.

 

 

What's your thinkings on tonights debate mate?

 

You seem an intelligent kinda guy. I think the Lib dems may have got a few seats tonight as a consequence of the performance of Clegg tonight.

 

Hung parliament anyone?

[Ulysses]

He doesn't have to. He seems to be winning anyway. Which I can't quite figure out, but that's politics I guess.

 

If you look at the big picture it's actually quite logical.

[shaun.lawson]

If you look at the big picture it's actually quite logical.

 

The big picture being:

 

1. Brown is crap and held responsible for the recession.

 

2. Cameron isn't Brown.

 

But beyond that, can you see any signs that the Tories have changed? I think the icing on the cake is different, but the cake itself is the same as ever.

[shaun.lawson]

Dave's the type of person women's institute middle england types would like their daughter to marry.

 

Broon's an unkempt savage from the northern part of england.

 

It doesn't really matter that only one of them actually says anything, England will get their toryboy PM and we'll all be the worse for it.

 

Surely any sane person could see that Cameron was simply empty soundbite after empty soundbite tonight with his 'jobs tax' nonsense.

 

I was also squirming when he kept on mentioning his son - no need Dave and should never have been mentioned.

 

Clegg came across very well but given Paddy Pantsdown's military past perhaps he was the right leader at the wrong time?

 

Ashdown was impressive, and responsible for the Lib Dems finally abandoning equidistance between the Tories and Labour; but he was also pompous, and struggled to connect with the electorate. Also, on what you've said above, Brown's message appears to be:

 

"I've presided over the worst recession in living memory. I've had 13 years to sort out things I'm only now arguing need to be sorted out. Vote for me!"

 

Sorry, but it just doesn't cut it.

[Ulysses]

The big picture being:

 

1. Brown is crap and held responsible for the recession.

 

2. Cameron isn't Brown.

 

But beyond that, can you see any signs that the Tories have changed? I think the icing on the cake is different, but the cake itself is the same as ever.

 

What has that got to do with anything?

 

The big picture being:

 

1. 
    
   
2. What was the purpose of the debate for the three of them?
    
   
3. Did each of them achieve his purpose?
   

 

Set in that context, Cameron did what he needed to do better than the others did what they needed to do - which is why I think he won.

[shaun.lawson]

What has that got to do with anything?

 

The big picture being:

 

1. 
    
   
2. What was the purpose of the debate for the three of them?
    
   
3. Did each of them achieve his purpose?
   

 

Set in that context, Cameron did what he needed to do better than the others did what they needed to do - which is why I think he won.

 

Purpose for the three of them:

 

Clegg needed to increase his profile, make himself known and show his party could be taken seriously. Brown needed to really put the spotlight on Cameron and expose his lack of detailed policies. Cameron needed to deal with the style over substance problem, show his party had changed, and not make any stupid mistakes.

 

Now granted, Cameron didn't make any stupid mistakes - but who came closest to achieving his purpose? Clegg. Who was furthest away? Brown. Which is why I scored it Clegg-Cameron-Brown. Cameron barely did anything at all; that he survived is not a sign that he won.

[shaun.lawson]

I would prefer to vote for a party who stopped the boom and bust economy

 

In that case, you can't vote for either Labour or the Tories. Unless you've been living on an iceberg over the past couple of years?

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

My Britain bet is still pending so it's looking like a winner.

[Danny Wilde]

I believe peoples minds are mostly made up - or are on the way to being made up - where the Tories are concentrating their resources in the English marginals. Win those and they scoop the pot. Didn't see anything tonight - nor from the post-match "results" - to change that probable outcome. Mondeo man, Essex Man ... all these demographic stereotypes ... they're all trekking back to their spiritual home, the Conservatives.

[Ulysses]

granted, Cameron didn't make any stupid mistakes - but who came closest to achieving his purpose? Clegg. Who was furthest away? Brown. Which is why I scored it Clegg-Cameron-Brown. Cameron barely did anything at all; that he survived is not a sign that he won.

 

It doesn't matter how Clegg performed, because no matter how well he performs he isn't going to swing a sufficient percentage of votes to convert to a big seat haul. So that takes him off the pitch.

 

So the remaining issue for Cameron was to outscore Brown - and he did. He didn't lose out to Brown during the debate; and he finished much more strongly.

 

Given how important it was, I was really surprised at how Clegg and Brown both seemed to completely miss the point of the closing address. Both of them started moderately well and then meandered off to finish in a state of blurred nothingness. They both made their big pitch in the first 30 seconds - and then had nothing sharp to say for the next 60. Cameron, on the other hand, waffled, but did it well. Like Brown and Clegg he started moderately well, but unlike them the address got more focused as it went on, and kept his big pitch for the last 30 seconds. He didn't waste time with "policy wonk guff", but kept to the big picture. In short, he used that 90 seconds much better than the others, and it will stand to him.

[Moriarty]

What's your thinkings on tonights debate mate?

 

You seem an intelligent kinda guy. I think the Lib dems may have got a few seats tonight as a consequence of the performance of Clegg tonight.

 

Hung parliament anyone?

 

I have always voted Lib Dem, triple P. Completely down to the good work of John Barrett and Margaret Smith in my constituency (Edinburgh West). This is the first time I have gotten excited about the liberal democrats on a national level, and everyone I talk to in my age range (18-25) is loving the work of the Cleggster tonight. I think they will do well in this election and it bodes well for the future if the new generation are sitting up and taking notice of the Liberal Democrats.

[shaun.lawson]

It doesn't matter how Clegg performed, because no matter how well he performs he isn't going to swing a sufficient percentage of votes to convert to a big seat haul. So that takes him off the pitch.

So the remaining issue for Cameron was to outscore Brown - and he did. He didn't lose out to Brown during the debate; and he finished much more strongly.

 

Given how important it was, I was really surprised at how Clegg and Brown both seemed to completely miss the point of the closing address. Both of them started moderately well and then meandered off to finish in a state of blurred nothingness. They both made their big pitch in the first 30 seconds - and then had nothing sharp to say for the next 60. Cameron, on the other hand, waffled, but did it well. Like Brown and Clegg he started moderately well, but unlike them the address got more focused as it went on, and kept his big pitch for the last 30 seconds. He didn't waste time with "policy wonk guff", but kept to the big picture. In short, he used that 90 seconds much better than the others, and it will stand to him.

 

Not true. If Clegg performs well enough, it helps force a hung Parliament, and prevents a Tory majority. All bets are off if coalitions are needed. I think I agree on the closing statements, but would argue all three of them were drained, and just looking to get through them without mishap.

[shaun.lawson]

Gordon Brown may not be the most cheery of people but to blame him for a global depression seems a bit extreme!

 

Anyway off to bed, nighty night jambos everywhere, sleep tight, make sure the call-me-daves don't bite.

 

I'm not blaming him for a global recession. I do hold his government considerably responsible for the recession in this country though; and acclaiming his party for "ending boom and bust" when, er, we've just gone through one hell of a bust under his watch, is pretty comical.

 

Night night!

[shaun.lawson]

I have always voted Lib Dem, triple P. Completely down to the good work of John Barrett and Margaret Smith in my constituency (Edinburgh West). This is the first time I have gotten excited about the liberal democrats on a national level, and everyone I talk to in my age range (18-25) is loving the work of the Cleggster tonight. I think they will do well in this election and it bodes well for the future if the new generation are sitting up and taking notice of the Liberal Democrats.

 

This

 

This

 

and not forgetting...

 

THIS

 

[Beverley]

i'm bloody annoyed. i settled down with a glass of wine and fell asleep about half an hour in grrrr. i think it was cleggs constant "hardened criminals of tomorrow" over and over again that set me off

[shaun.lawson]

SUPER CLEGG BEATS BATTLING BROWN BUT CAMERON IS ATROCIOUS

 

WHO'S THE TORY SCORNING GLORY?

 

CLEGG ON HIS FACE

 

Any other suggestions, folks?

[Ulysses]

Not true. If Clegg performs well enough, it helps force a hung Parliament, and prevents a Tory majority. All bets are off if coalitions are needed. I think I agree on the closing statements, but would argue all three of them were drained, and just looking to get through them without mishap.

 

I think it may look that way to Liberal Democrat supporters, and I also think they (and several analysts who should know better) have already overstated the size of lead that the Tories will need to win an overall majority.

 

Danny Wilde's post above is close enough to the mark. All the analysis seems to be based on the flawed assumption that any swing will be uniform. But the chances are that it will be significantly more marked in those marginals where the Conservatives are concentrating their efforts and resources. In that context, I think the reality is that the Liberal Democrats need to score more than 23% to even start making a difference to the overall result.

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

SUPER CLEGG BEATS BATTLING BROWN BUT CAMERON IS ATROCIOUS

 

WHO'S THE TORY SCORNING GLORY?

 

CLEGG ON HIS FACE

 

Any other suggestions, folks?

 

ON YOUR BIKE CAMERON YOU ****ING SMARMY BLUNT

 

Well, that's what I'd like to see anyway.

[heartsfc_fan]

SUPER CLEGG BEATS BATTLING BROWN BUT CAMERON IS ATROCIOUS

 

WHO'S THE TORY SCORNING GLORY?

 

CLEGG ON HIS FACE

 

Any other suggestions, folks?

 

Good stuff Shawn x 100

[shaun.lawson]

I think it may look that way to Liberal Democrat supporters, and I also think they (and several analysts who should know better) have already overstated the size of lead that the Tories will need to win an overall majority.

 

Danny Wilde's post above is close enough to the mark. All the analysis seems to be based on the flawed assumption that any swing will be uniform. But the chances are that it will be significantly more marked in those marginals where the Conservatives are concentrating their efforts and resources. In that context, I think the reality is that the Liberal Democrats need to score more than 23% to even start making a difference to the overall result.

 

Yes, that's certainly a fair point. To me, it feels like the Tories aren't going to win; just as it felt like Labour weren't going to win in 1992. But the key marginals tell a different story, I agree. It's not impossible the Lib Dems could beat 23% though: unlikely, but they may get a real bounce from last night. Clegg just needs to keep it up.

[Gorgiewave]

LIB DEMS GET CLEGG UP AS SHAMCAM FAULTERS IN THE BROWN