Who is the better centre half?

[hate_hibs]

Oh dear- anyone that doesn't vote for Berra should not be allowed near Tynecastle. Ever. FACT. END OF(f)!!

 

Exactly

[Thunderstruck]

I was never abusive to you in my original reply, so I don't see why I would become so now.

 

I'll be sure to consult you in future should I choose to create another poll , and the point of my original reply stands, if you don't like a poll/thread ignore it. Calling it 'pathetic' etc is a sign of someone who takes this forum just a wee bit too seriously....

 

Football is all about opinion, I've created a poll which gives a black or white choice, the answer may very well be a shade of grey but that is not what I'm pollling here. If you ask someone to call a coin toss, you don't include an option for the coin landing on it's side.

 

Apologies, I probably over-reacted in original reply but I still see the poll as flawed. Furthermore, I suggest it panders to the, shall we say, less than objective sections of the Hearts support. The two replies that follow your last post make my point for me.

 

The annoyance I have comes from the fact that we are four games into a winning run and now starting to play good football and we hardly had enough time to thaw out after yesterday's game before threads popped up decrying Zaliukas when he actually had quite a good game.

 

Those who persist in criticism devalue this by failing to applaud a good performance when they see it. To give you an example, Jonsson was having, by any standards, a poor game, getting caught out of position, leaving Robbie exposed and misplacing passes - all without to much of a murmur from the crowd. Yet, the moment Zaliukas was short with a pass at least half-a-dozen around me leapt to their feet to shout and bawl about how much of a "waste of space" he was (to put it in Parliamentary language).

 

As I said in last week's anti-Zaliukas thread, the player has, like many other young players, a number of strengths and weaknesses. These weaker points of his game can be coached out of him to turn him into a solid centre back. This requires work by coaches and support/encouragement from the crowd. Berra also has strengths and weaknesses and he needs similar coaching and encouragement.

[The Old Tolbooth]

 

I cant believe you have to ask that question OP!!

 

Zal is an absolute freekin bombscare and is always liable to cost us goals, Berra could be brilliant if he had someone experienced (like Elvis) beside him to bring him on.

 

I wouldn't even give Zal a starting place every week, I'd be tempted to bring in Rapnik, or try Eggert or Karipidis at CH, and get rid of Zal asap!!!!

[The Old Tolbooth]

Number 26 is an embarrasment to Heart of Midlothian and it makes me sick watching him pull on a Hearts jersey.

 

Kudos to AP

[JAYEL]

I am happy with Zal in the team.

 

He had another good game yesterday.

 

 

 

 

 

.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

It's difficult to ignore how utterly comprehensive Berra's victory is in this poll. I'm amazed - 93%!

[Poseidon]

Berra by a distance for me. And someone claims that "Zal is much better in the air that Berra". I find that quite staggering to be honest but yes, it's all about opinions and close to 94% have the opinion that Berra is better.

[Jammy T]

Is this thread a joke?

[Guest JamboRobbo]

Is this thread a joke?

 

It's designed to weed out those who don't go to games, or who don't know ANYTHING about football.

 

Caught 14 of them so far.

[Buffalo Bill]

Love him or not, Berra's form has been superb of late.

 

Zali plays well for 95% of the game but has one or two bomscares that cost us goals.

 

I know which one I prefer, but I also know which one is likely to still be here a year from now.

 

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

[Drylaw Hearts]

Love him or not, Berra's form has been superb of late.

 

Zali plays well for 95% of the game but has one or two bomscares that cost us goals.

 

I know which one I prefer, but I also know which one is likely to still be here a year from now.

 

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

 

Berra looks to have stepped up a gear since ER.

 

It's only a matter of time before he does leave though which will leave us in the crap imo.

 

Csaba should plan for the future now by playing Jonsson and Rapnik 'together' in CD for the Reserves.

 

Zaliukas makes too many basic errors for a CH and needs to be dropped asap.

[Sub4TiddlerMurray]

Love him or not, Berra's form has been superb of late.

 

Zali plays well for 95% of the game but has one or two bomscares that cost us goals.

 

I know which one I prefer, but I also know which one is likely to still be here a year from now.

 

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

 

Why has no one mentioned that it was Berra that got ripped up for Falkirk's goal not Zaliukas?

[Thunderstruck]

It's designed to weed out those who don't go to games, or who don't know ANYTHING about football.

 

Caught 14 of them so far.

 

Self deprecation is all good and well but don't be so hard on yourself.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

Why has no one mentioned that it was Berra that got ripped up for Falkirk's goal not Zaliukas?

 

Because it was Zal who lunged in for a ball he was never getting to in the first place that left Berra exposed. As one of "the 14", I wouldn't expect you to have noticed that though.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

Self deprecation is all good and well but don't be so hard on yourself.

 

I'm not one of the 14.

 

actually, to be fair, it's only 13. I read one voter above saying he only voted for Zal cause he feels sorry for him.

[Gambo]

Why has no one mentioned that it was Berra that got ripped up for Falkirk's goal not Zaliukas?

 

Because Berra never makes mistakes.

or

Because Zaliukas was on the park. Take your pick.

 

There is a thread running ('heard today') where you will find out that Berra is exhonirated (spell:eek:) from any blame whatsoever.

 

Also did you know that Berra never made any mistakes at all on Saturday (claimed by a poster form Clermiston) , and according to many on here never lost a header to Higdon all game(we now know who leaves games early).

[Gambo]

Because it was Zal who lunged in for a ball he was never getting to in the first place that left Berra exposed.

 

Berra exposed himself when he ran away into no-mans land when the man he was marking received the ball.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

Because Berra never makes mistakes.

or

Because Zaliukas was on the park. Take your pick.

 

There is a thread running ('heard today') where you will find out that Berra is exhonirated (spell:eek:) from any blame whatsoever.

 

Also did you know that Berra never made any mistakes at all on Saturday (claimed by a poster form Clermiston) , and according to many on here never lost a header to Higdon all game(we now know who leaves games early).

 

Did you see him winning ball after ball after ball in the air. Did you see the time it came into the box and there were 3 or 4 Falkirk attackers, not being marked, and only Berra doing his job. Berra won the ball and took a clattering for his trouble.

 

He was a rock on Saturday, whilst Zaliukas was a *ock, as usual.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

Berra exposed himself when he ran away into no-mans land when the man he was marking received the ball.

 

When the man ZAL was supposed to be marking skinned him (using the tried and tested method of standing still and waiting for Zal to miss the ball), meaning Berra had to go to the ball to COVER FOR ZAL AS USUAL.

[interista]

Aftaer 5 games of the season, I would have said Zaliukas.

Right now Berra is ahead.

 

If Zaliukas were to cut out the bombscare moments he woudl be the better player. He isn't though (near miss yesterday) and so you can't call him the better defender.

 

I am most pleased at how well both have progressed (although Berra has progressed more) since Csaba took over at the club.

 

Spot on. These unfortunate lapses in concentration are Zal's downfall.

[Gambo]

When the man ZAL was supposed to be marking skinned him (using the tried and tested method of standing still and waiting for Zal to miss the ball), meaning Berra had to go to the ball to COVER FOR ZAL AS USUAL.

 

And failed miserably again.

 

Can you acknowledge that like i have acknowledged that Zal made a mistake also?

[Guest JamboRobbo]

And failed miserably again.

 

Can you acknowledge that like i have acknowledged that Zal made a mistake also?

 

I'll happily acknowledge, that despite his best efforts, Berra is just one player like all the rest, and he is not superman, and is not capable of doing the impossible, and covering up for Zal every time Zal makes one of his regular schoolboy blunders.

 

Thats why I think, rather than expecting Berra to cover up for his mistakes all the time, the way forward, is to find a new centre half to partner Berra, one who DOESN'T make horrendous blunders on a regular basis.

[Gambo]

Did you see him winning ball after ball after ball in the air. Did you see the time it came into the box and there were 3 or 4 Falkirk attackers, not being marked, and only Berra doing his job. Berra won the ball and took a clattering for his trouble.

 

l.

 

Just like Zal has to cover for Berra at times. Did you see the great tackle Zal made on a Falkirk player in the box in the second half after Berra had hit his straight forward clearance straight to a Falkirk player?

 

That is what defender do, they cover for there collegues, Zal does it, Berra does it, Neilson does it, Wallace does it, as sometimes defenders will miss out on the tackle (better that than running away).

[Drylaw Hearts]

Just like Zal has to cover for Berra at times. Did you see the great tackle Zal made on a Falkirk player in the box in the second half after Berra had hit his straight forward clearance straight to a Falkirk player?

 

That is what defender do, they cover for there collegues, Zal does it, Berra does it, Neilson does it, Wallace does it, as sometimes defenders will miss out on the tackle (better that than running away).

 

I recall an incident in the 2nd half similar to this but IIRC the roles were reversed.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

Just like Zal has to cover for Berra at times. Did you see the great tackle Zal made on a Falkirk player in the box in the second half after Berra had hit his straight forward clearance straight to a Falkirk player?

 

Nope, I recall it the other way round tho.

 

I think we've gotten to the bottom of the problem. You think Zal is Berra and Berra is Zal, which explains why you've been having a go at Berra and defending Zal for so long.

[Gambo]

I'll happily acknowledge, that despite his best efforts, Berra is just one player like all the rest, and he is not superman, and is not capable of doing the impossible, and covering up for Zal every time Zal makes one of his regular schoolboy blunders.

 

Thats why I think, rather than expecting Berra to cover up for his mistakes all the time, the way forward, is to find a new centre half to partner Berra, one who DOESN'T make horrendous blunders on a regular basis.

 

So now Berra does not need to cover up for his collegues mistakes? Are his collegues (as they do often) still to tidy up after Berra?

 

What do you call running away when the man you are closely marking (not having to make some sudden dash to cover, but actually marking) receives the ball?

[Guest JamboRobbo]

So now Berra does not need to cover up for his collegues mistakes? Are his collegues (as they do often) still to tidy up after Berra?

 

What do you call running away when the man you are closely marking (not having to make some sudden dash to cover, but actually marking) receives the ball?

 

If you're talking about Berra on Saturday, I call it being caught in no mans land whilst trying to cover up for your colleague (Zal's) incompetence.

[Drylaw Hearts]

Nope, I recall it the other way round tho.

 

I think we've gotten to the bottom of the problem. You think Zal is Berra and Berra is Zal, which explains why you've been having a go at Berra and defending Zal for so long.

 

[Gambo]

I recall an incident in the 2nd half similar to this but IIRC the roles were reversed.

 

You may be right that there was a similar incident, but there was definately an incident in the second half where Berra carelessly played a clearance straight to a Falkirk player who knocked it into the box and Zal made a great clearing tackle (wheatfield side of park), the only reason i remember the incident is that my sisters boyfriend was having a bit of banter with a Zal hater behind him and it got highlighted to point out that Berra makes simple errors so where was his mouthful of abuse aimed at Berra. It was met with silence, the same silence all Berras errors are met with, just like when he won a header (against no-one) near the end of the first half and contrived to knock it out for a throw in......silence.

[Eggo]

It's designed to weed out those who don't go to games, or who don't know ANYTHING about football.

 

Caught 14 of them so far.

 

 

 

Strange that ive got 15:rolleyes:

[Gambo]

Nope, I recall it the other way round tho.

 

I think we've gotten to the bottom of the problem. You think Zal is Berra and Berra is Zal, which explains why you've been having a go at Berra and defending Zal for so long.

 

Eh i will think you will find he did.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

Strange that ive got 15:rolleyes:

 

Aye, when more people vote, the numbers on the poll change. Strange one that, who'd thunk that's the way it works.

[Drylaw Hearts]

You may be right that there was a similar incident, but there was definately an incident in the second half where Berra carelessly played a clearance straight to a Falkirk player who knocked it into the box and Zal made a great clearing tackle (wheatfield side of park), the only reason i remember the incident is that my sisters boyfriend was having a bit of banter with a Zal hater behind him and it got highlighted to point out that Berra makes simple errors so where was his mouthful of abuse aimed at Berra. It was met with silence, the same silence all Berras errors are met with, just like when he won a header (against no-one) near the end of the first half and contrived to knock it out for a throw in......silence.

 

It seems we were both referring to the same incident but I can assure you it was definitley Zal who made another careless pass and Berra who pulled him out the crap with a great tackle.

[Gambo]

If you're talking about Berra on Saturday, I call it being caught in no mans land whilst trying to cover up for your colleague (Zal's) incompetence.

 

Why did he not stick to the man for? Why did a defender run away?

 

Zal, going by your logic only lunged in to cover for someone elses error.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

Eh i will think you will find he did.

 

Can you prove that 100% with facts?

[Guest JamboRobbo]

Why did he not stick to the man for? Why did a defender run away?

 

Because as soon as Zal dives in and misses the ball, he is wrong side of his man, leaving Berra exposed - he then has to decide whether to go to the ball to cover for Zal, or mark his man and let Zals man charge forward unchallenged.

 

Zal, going by your logic only lunged in to cover for someone elses error.

 

No, there was no problem till Zal lunged in. Just as there was no problem till he lunged in against Aberdeen the other week, and again missed the ball, and again we lost a goal.

[Drylaw Hearts]

Aye, when more people vote, the numbers on the poll change. Strange one that, who'd thunk that's the way it works.

 

[Gambo]

It seems we were both referring to the same incident but I can assure you it was definitley Zal who made another careless pass and Berra who pulled him out the crap with a great tackle.

 

I think not, even the Zal hater acknowledged the fact at the time.

[loveofthegame]

I've been saying for as long as i can remember, even back when Berra was regularly getting a hard time on here, that he was being made to look bad at times trying to cover up for Zaliukas' incompetence- the goal on Saturday was another example.

 

Zali was dragged out of position by the centre forward, made a poor lunging tackle and left Berra completely exposed. Had he not followed the forward and not made a stupid lunge the chance would never have come about.

 

The importance of the centre half partnership cannot ever be overstated, which is why you'll hear pundits and commentators talking about it so much if you watch much football. It requires both players to work together and help each other. If 1 of them is a weakness it will be exposed, often with consequences for the other centre half and the team as a whole.

[Drylaw Hearts]

I think not, even the Zal hater acknowledged the fact at the time.

 

I honestly believe you are both wrong.

[Gambo]

 

 

No, there was no problem till Zal lunged in. Just as there was no problem till he lunged in against Aberdeen the other week, and again missed the ball, and again we lost a goal.

 

There was no problem as Berra was closely marking the Falkirk player who would have to knock it back the way/sideways or beat Berra with skill, instead he had to take his time and turn and pass it through to the forward as Berra had decided not to defend it.

 

 

Here is me thinking that Berra covers all Zals errors to, yet you named 2 incidents where he has went missing.

[Gambo]

I honestly believe you are both wrong.

 

 

No, you and i are maybe talking about a different incident.

[Eggo]

There was no problem as Berra was closely marking the Falkirk player who would have to knock it back the way/sideways or beat Berra with skill, instead he had to take his time and turn and pass it through to the forward as Berra had decided not to defend it.

 

 

Here is me thinking that Berra covers all Zals errors to, yet you named 2 incidents where he has went missing.

 

 

Get a room:cool:

 

 

p.s. Gambo,dont argue with the voice of Hearts youll get an infraction:cool:

[Gambo]

Get a room:cool:

 

 

p.s. Gambo,dont argue with the voice of Hearts youll get an infraction:cool:

 

Not arguing, only debating.

[Eggo]

Not arguing, only debating.

 

 

 

Your safe then mate;)

[loveofthegame]

There was no problem as Berra was closely marking the Falkirk player who would have to knock it back the way/sideways or beat Berra with skill, instead he had to take his time and turn and pass it through to the forward as Berra had decided not to defend it.

 

 

Here is me thinking that Berra covers all Zals errors to, yet you named 2 incidents where he has went missing.

 

 

The point being made is that this is impossible, Berra isn't superman, and this is therefore costing us goals.

[Gambo]

I've been saying for as long as i can remember, even back when Berra was regularly getting a hard time on here, that he was being made to look bad at times trying to cover up for Zaliukas' incompetence- the goal on Saturday was another example.

 

Zali was dragged out of position by the centre forward, made a poor lunging tackle and left Berra completely exposed. Had he not followed the forward and not made a stupid lunge the chance would never have come about.

 

 

 

You would have blamed him for not following his man.

 

Zal made a mistake (as did Neilson before Zal............but that does not count as you are only 2 go back as far as Zals involvement) but that does not mean Berra is blameless for the next phase of play, where he ran away from the man he was marking when that player received the ball.

 

What would that achieve if everyone gave up after a collegue made a mistake?

 

If Neilson hadn't tried a wee flick, if Zal had not missed his tackle, if Berra had stayed with his man, if Balogh had not come out so far there woulkd not have been a chance..................it happened and there are a few culprits. But unlike what some of you want, the players acted like a team and fought out a win.

[Eggo]

Aye, when more people vote, the numbers on the poll change. Strange one that, who'd thunk that's the way it works.

 

 

I wasnt thunking right:rolleyes:

[Guest JamboRobbo]

I wasnt thunking right:rolleyes:

 

little changes around this place

[loveofthegame]

You would have blamed him for not following his man.

 

Zal made a mistake (as did Neilson before Zal............but that does not count as you are only 2 go back as far as Zals involvement) but that does not mean Berra is blameless for the next phase of play, where he ran away from the man he was marking when that player received the ball.

 

What would that achieve if everyone gave up after a collegue made a mistake?

 

If Neilson hadn't tried a wee flick, if Zal had not missed his tackle, if Berra had stayed with his man, if Balogh had not come out so far there woulkd not have been a chance..................it happened and there are a few culprits. But unlike what some of you want, the players acted like a team and fought out a win.

 

For starters he didn't 'give up' after his colleague made a mistake.

 

You where then doing ok until the last sentence, which is just ridiculous. Criticising a player who is constantly letting the team down has nothing to do with us not wanting the players to act like a team. What a silly, strange comment. There is no agenda here from me other than wanting the best for Hearts, and imo, that involves dropping bombscare.