Sectarianism / Outrage.

[Erik]

Another thread on here got me thinking about this.....

 

I'm just wondering how many folk on here are actually GENUINELY offended when they hear "sectarian" sing songs at the football?? How many folk really GENUINELY leave the match sickened by what they've heard??

 

If I'm totally honest, I think I'd say that the songs sung by both Rangers AND Celtic dont actually offend me one bit. In both instances, I see it as nothing more than an annoyance. They sing their songs to wind us up and it works a treat.

 

They wind us up, we wind them up. Thats what rivalry is all about no?

 

All the best footballing atmosphere's come when something controversial happens...... be it a dodgy goal, a dodgy penalty, a dodgy decision, a dodgy tackle or just the words that echo from the terraces.

 

I will concede however that there ARE some who will be "sickened" by what they hear at the football. Then again, there are some who will leave the football offended about the use of the "F-word" during those 90 minutes. I suspect that the number of folk really truly genuinlely offended / sickened by this kinda thing are in their minority.

 

Our love of football reaches far deeper than the confides of the pitch itself - our love of the game is based upon the experience as a whole.... the way it makes us feel when we're in the middle of that atmoshpere amongst like minded individuals.

 

When you take the controversy out the game, you take away the appeal of the atmosphere.

 

Given a choice of a Hearts vs Rangers match observed from the stand in utter silence.... or a Hearts vs Rangers match with a heated atmosphere with whatever "offensive" sing songs they wanna sing............ I know what I'd choose every time.

 

Sectarianism isnt whats killing football. Mock outrage is.

 

Dont bother calling me a bigot - I'm not.

Dont bother calling me a mini-hun - I'm not.

Dont bother calling me a Celtic sympathiser - I'm not.

Dont bother calling me a Hobo - I'm not.

 

I'm just interested to hear how sectarianism REALLY makes folk feel. What REALLY goes through your head when you hear the word fenian coming out?

[Victorian]

i'm not offended by it at all. my only concern is how fans' behaviour impacts on the club. pure and simple.

[Guest jambomickey]

makes me sick! what's it got to do with heart of midlotian football club or indeed football?

[Rudolf's Mate]

Doesn't bother me one bit if I'm being honest however it's always good to start booing when the ugly sisters do sing something that's not exactly pc!

[Dr. Bapswent]

Worst thing you could do in the face of that sort of thing is learn to accept it or play it down as 'its not a big deal really'.

 

Its socially unacceptable, like drink driving, domestic abuse or racism, to turn a blind eye and play it down is the worst thing you can do.

[Syd]

The people who beleive within themselfs that the things that are said in some "chants" are ok to be said are the people that worry me. Do they have kids that will have a similar belief, failing that are they influencing others around them?, Do they contribute to fights, drugs, vandalisim within society?.... My uneducated and completly wild guess would be yes.

[Guest jambomickey]

The people who beleive within themselfs that the things that are said in some "chants" are ok to be said are the people that worry me. Do they have kids that will have a similar belief, failing that are they influencing others around them?, Do they contribute to fights, drugs, vandalisim within society?.... My uneducated and completly wild guess would be yes.

 

the scary thing about it mate is the vast majority of them doing it are young lads between 16 and 18 years of age, there hearts future

[andy1874hmfc]

Doesn't bother me one bit if I'm being honest however it's always good to start booing when the ugly sisters do sing something that's not exactly pc!

 

 

That just encourages them to sing louder and more of it.

[Feeno]

Worst thing you could do in the face of that sort of thing is learn to accept it or play it down as 'its not a big deal really'.

 

Its socially unacceptable, like drink driving, domestic abuse or racism, to turn a blind eye and play it down is the worst thing you can do.

 

This is why the songs get sung, that and the wind up factor. Bigotry is alive an well is the hearts and minds of a great deal of the herts support

[davjambo]

Worst thing you could do in the face of that sort of thing is learn to accept it or play it down as 'its not a big deal really'.

 

Its socially unacceptable, like drink driving, domestic abuse or racism, to turn a blind eye and play it down is the worst thing you can do.

 

HERE HERE why let the bigots of the hook.

[Paris 84]

It bothers me. I don't particularly like to be associated with biggotry, blind hatred or intolerance. I don't like it when the Celtic fans call us mini-huns because I personally am not. I don't like it when Aberdeen fans taunt us for being mini-huns because I personally am not. I don't like it when Rangers fans tell me that our clubs are 'cousins' because in my eyes we are not.

 

I don't like guilt by association.

[Dr. Bapswent]

the scary thing about it mate is the vast majority of them doing it are young lads between 16 and 18 years of age, there hearts future

 

Yep, and i doubt they really know what they are singing about, or care, they are just dumb and follow the herd.

[Pants Shaton]

Anyone who finds the 'Edinburgh is wonderful' song acceptable, or indeed any of other forms of racism perpetrated by a (significant) minority of our away support, should consider engaging their brain.

 

It is embarrassing to be associated with these people and because the are a vocal minority they sully the repuatation of our club and provide ammunition to those who feel we are Rangers lite.

[Dazo]

Worst thing you could do in the face of that sort of thing is learn to accept it or play it down as 'its not a big deal really'.

 

Its socially unacceptable, like drink driving, domestic abuse or racism, to turn a blind eye and play it down is the worst thing you can do.

 

So what do you do about it other than show you moral outrage on JKB ?

 

Personally it does not bother me in the slightest. I am not saying it is right or acceptable, I just don't give a toss. Got bigger things to worry about than what gets sung on match days.

[Victorian]

unless i'm missing some vital point here, there doesn't appear to be any crucial necessity to take part in all these songs about sectarianism, race, disabilities, etc etc...

 

that being the case, if there's no particular need, why bring it into football? why associate hearts with it?

 

just because you have freedom of expression and hold certain views... doesn't mean that you have to excercise your freedom of expression all the time.

 

the internet is a big, scary place... i fel sure there are plenty of websites where people can exchange sectarian insults, be racist and mock the afflicted.

[bigandy]

Worst thing you could do in the face of that sort of thing is learn to accept it or play it down as 'its not a big deal really'.

 

Its socially unacceptable, like drink driving, domestic abuse or racism, to turn a blind eye and play it down is the worst thing you can do.

 

For once I agree 100% with Dr B. Someone will no doubt come on here and say its all PC hand wringing gone made. Nonsense not singing/ saying offensive and unacceptable things is not PC its just about what is right or wrong. Also those people who claim to only do it at the football or to be 90 minute bigots - bollox. You are either a bigot or you are not, if you are not you dont sing bigoted songs. Why is doing it at the football different or acceptable?

[Erik]

makes me sick!

 

I bet it doesnt.

 

Worst thing you could do in the face of that sort of thing is learn to accept it or play it down as 'its not a big deal really'.

 

Its socially unacceptable, like drink driving, domestic abuse or racism, to turn a blind eye and play it down is the worst thing you can do.

 

Come on doc - you simply cannot compare a few meaningless words in a few football songs to the consquences of drink driving of domestic abuse, can you????

 

It bothers me. I don't particularly like to be associated with biggotry, blind hatred or intolerance. I don't like it when the Celtic fans call us mini-huns because I personally am not. I don't like it when Aberdeen fans taunt us for being mini-huns because I personally am not. I don't like it when Rangers fans tell me that our clubs are 'cousins' because in my eyes we are not.

 

I don't like guilt by association.

 

So what your saying here is that its the association that bothers with you and not the actual songs themselves???

 

If these songs were still sung and you were NOT being taunted / accused by supporters of the other clubs you mention...... would you STILL have a problem with the songs???

 

Some interesting views so far.

[scott herbertson]

It bothers me

 

..and it quite clearly damages the club I support and discourages people from becoming fans of our club

 

It also has nothing to do with our club or with football

[Guest juvehearts]

Ok good post first of.

 

I googled off '' define Sectarianism.

 

 

sec?tar?i?an

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(sk-t?r-n)

adj. 1. Of, relating to, or characteristic of a sect.

2. Adhering or confined to the dogmatic limits of a sect or denomination; partisan.

3. Narrow-minded; parochial.

 

n. 1. A member of a sect.

2. One characterized by bigoted adherence to a factional viewpoint.

 

Then I googled off bigoted......................

which isnt a word, or cant be defined at the correct abjective is bigot.

A BIGOT

 

A person who regards his own faith (could be deemed football team) and views in matters of religion as unquestionably right, and any belief or opinion opposed to or differing from them as unreasonable or wicked.(where rivalry comes from) In an extended sense, a person who is intolerant of opinions which conflict with his own, as in politics or morals; one obstinately and blindly devoted to his own church, party, belief, or opinion.

 

A bigot does not have to mean religion, even when it comes to the OF.

a bigot is someone who doesnot share the same belief that you have, with the example of hearts - hibs, rangers -celtic, dundee -dundee utd.

 

Football has always been about who is the better team, that is why leagues & cup tournaments were formed.

 

Football HAS always brought people together to play a sport.

 

football is a funny game as where two conflicting objectives clash, rivalry & friendship.

 

I was always brought up with these morals where for 2 hours you hate your rivals & only focus on winning, afterwords it friendship & discussion.

 

Because every human has their own views these discussions will never be of the same belief which conflic appears & biggot comes into place.

 

that is where this rivalry comes from.

 

Its human nature to disagree with one & thats where conflict occurs.

It will never go away & never change.

 

IMO conflict benifits & enhances the football game,making it exciting to watch.

 

if you are eaisly offended by any singing at football matches then follow rugby

[Paris 84]

I bet it doesnt.

 

 

 

Come on doc - you simply cannot compare a few meaningless words in a few football songs to the consquences of drink driving of domestic abuse, can you????

 

 

 

So what your saying here is that its the association that bothers with you and not the actual songs themselves???

 

If these songs were still sung and you were NOT being taunted / accused by supporters of the other clubs you mention...... would you STILL have a problem with the songs???

 

Some interesting views so far.

 

If they are sung by my clubs fans yes!!! The weedgies can sing what they like, because as far as I'm concerned they are knuckle dragging biggots. I just can't understand why anyone would want to be associated with these two. Maybe you could enlighten me why you think it's acceptable to sing the crap that they do, or should that be why we the Hearts fans think it's acceptable. Why should we be glorifying in being 'up to our knees in fenian blood'? Why should I be associated with the 'Gorgie Billy Boys'?

 

Please enlighten me? Why should I, a 49 year old guy born and raised in Drylaw have any issue whatsoever with the roman catholic religion? Some of my best mates when I grew up were catholics, and Jambos as well. Why should I be singing this, so I can wind up opposition fans? If that's the case why don't we wind up opposition fans by booing their black players? Why don't wind up opposition fans by booing any Jewish players?

 

Please do reply and give me your opinion?

[Dr. Bapswent]

 

 

 

Come on doc - you simply cannot compare a few meaningless words in a few football songs to the consquences of drink driving of domestic abuse, can you????

 

.

 

 

Yes you can.

 

Because the old attitude to these socially unacceptable problems are the same.

 

They are outdated, and archaic.

 

Just like the old 50's attitudes do domestic abuse, and drink driving.

 

Its why people laugh at Alf Garnett. Its a comedy, about how out of touch this guy is, not a documentary about someone who likes to wind up blacks.

 

The effects may be very different, but the analogy is correct.

 

All of these things have been made socially unacceptable, society's attitudes have had to change. For the better.

 

It is no longer ok to drink and drive, to slap the wife about (I wait on the dead hilarious comments about aye it is etc) and call the neighbours coons.

 

Those that do are rightly chastised by society.

 

Yet some on here are arguing to keep the same bigoted songs, in fact others encourage their singing?

 

Its a last bastion of dumb bigoted people who want to be part of something outdated. Something that gives them a sense of meaning, of belonging and purpose. And most are to dumb to see that.

 

The fact no-one has given a good explanation (other than to add to atmosphere - which other songs do just as well) as to why these songs SHOULD be sung, is testament to that.

 

Its outdated, Neanderthal and so are most who take part. The rest are just to dumb to realize what they are doing and tag along. It should be treated as such.

[Erik]

If they are sung by my clubs fans yes!!! The weedgies can sing what they like, because as far as I'm concerned they are knuckle dragging biggots. I just can't understand why anyone would want to be associated with these two. Maybe you could enlighten me why you think it's acceptable to sing the crap that they do, or should that be why we the Hearts fans think it's acceptable. Why should we be glorifying in being 'up to our knees in fenian blood'? Why should I be associated with the 'Gorgie Billy Boys'?

 

Please enlighten me? Why should I, a 49 year old guy born and raised in Drylaw have any issue whatsoever with the roman catholic religion? Some of my best mates when I grew up were catholics, and Jambos as well. Why should I be singing this, so I can wind up opposition fans? If that's the case why don't we wind up opposition fans by booing their black players? Why don't wind up opposition fans by booing any Jewish players?

 

Please do reply and give me your opinion?

 

Your going off on a number of tangents here mate, so i'm finding it a bit hard to see what your actually getting at.

 

So your saying the songs offend you if they are sung by Hearts fans, BUT...... you couldnt care less if the weedgies sing them???

 

An offensive song is an offensive song - regardless of who its sung by. So you cant say its offensive when Hearts fans sing it, but not when OF fans do.

 

So make up your mind - are you offended by the SONGS / LYRICS or not??

 

Its not about me thinking its acceptable or not. I've already stated, i dont genuinely find ANY of the songs they sing offensive, and thats my point - I'm trying to understand just how many folk ARE genuinely affected by these songs compared to how many folk "claim" to be offended for the sake of it or through some form of feeling like they have to be.

 

Given your response, I think you fall in to that category. Its not the lyrics that offend / bother you - its the folk who choose to sing them that do.

[letsalllaughathobos]

spot on buddy.

to many treehuggers go to tynie these days.

if hey dont like it **** off.

 

(and before anyone says anything Idont sing these songs but i dont care if anyone else does)

some folk need to grow up and get a grip.

start worrying about thereself rather than others.

[bighusref]

Another thread on here got me thinking about this.....

 

I'm just wondering how many folk on here are actually GENUINELY offended when they hear "sectarian" sing songs at the football?? How many folk really GENUINELY leave the match sickened by what they've heard??

 

If I'm totally honest, I think I'd say that the songs sung by both Rangers AND Celtic dont actually offend me one bit. In both instances, I see it as nothing more than an annoyance. They sing their songs to wind us up and it works a treat.

 

They wind us up, we wind them up. Thats what rivalry is all about no?

 

All the best footballing atmosphere's come when something controversial happens...... be it a dodgy goal, a dodgy penalty, a dodgy decision, a dodgy tackle or just the words that echo from the terraces.

 

I will concede however that there ARE some who will be "sickened" by what they hear at the football. Then again, there are some who will leave the football offended about the use of the "F-word" during those 90 minutes. I suspect that the number of folk really truly genuinlely offended / sickened by this kinda thing are in their minority.

 

Our love of football reaches far deeper than the confides of the pitch itself - our love of the game is based upon the experience as a whole.... the way it makes us feel when we're in the middle of that atmoshpere amongst like minded individuals.

 

When you take the controversy out the game, you take away the appeal of the atmosphere.

 

Given a choice of a Hearts vs Rangers match observed from the stand in utter silence.... or a Hearts vs Rangers match with a heated atmosphere with whatever "offensive" sing songs they wanna sing............ I know what I'd choose every time.

 

Sectarianism isnt whats killing football. Mock outrage is.

 

Dont bother calling me a bigot - I'm not.

Dont bother calling me a mini-hun - I'm not.

Dont bother calling me a Celtic sympathiser - I'm not.

Dont bother calling me a Hobo - I'm not.

 

I'm just interested to hear how sectarianism REALLY makes folk feel. What REALLY goes through your head when you hear the word fenian coming out?

 

How does it make me feel? I have to be honest and say that a song sang at a game is not going to offend me either way.

 

I do have two reasons for disliking the singing of these songs, I would like to hear your opinion on these.

 

1) The impact it makes on the club

 

Sectarian, rude offensive songs only make the club look bad, it gives the public perception that we are a sectarian club supported by idiots.

 

2) It can get the club into trouble

 

This is the big one, irrespective of peoples beliefs, dislikes or even hatred of the opposition, why would a Hearts fan sing something that could get the club into trouble?

[bigandy]

spot on buddy.

to many treehuggers go to tynie these days.

if hey dont like it **** off.

 

(and before anyone says anything Idont sing these songs but i dont care if anyone else does)

some folk need to grow up and get a grip.

start worrying about thereself rather than others.

 

Why are you a tree hugger if you find sectarianism/bigotry/racism unacceptable? It IS unacceptable.

 

Examples of PC gone mad - banning Christmas/nativity plays at school, not being able to call black boards black boards.

 

Examples of things that are often called PC gone mad but are not - singing sectarian songs at football, calling someone a black b*****d/n****r etc.

 

Its a sad reflection on Scotland that people in this country feel the only way to generate an atmosphere at the football is through religious bile and hatred.

[Guest Dipped Flake]

I couldn't care less if the bigot brothers want to sing their sectarian crap, it just confirms my opinion of them as fans and football clubs. I HATE when Hearts fans sing that garbage because thist is my club and I have no wish to be associated with mindless bigots, is that enough explanation??

[jambos are go!]

It bothers me big time.

[Erik]

How does it make me feel? I have to be honest and say that a song sang at a game is not going to offend me either way.

 

I do have two reasons for disliking the singing of these songs, I would like to hear your opinion on these.

 

1) The impact it makes on the club

 

Sectarian, rude offensive songs only make the club look bad, it gives the public perception that we are a sectarian club supported by idiots.

 

2) It can get the club into trouble

 

This is the big one, irrespective of peoples beliefs, dislikes or even hatred of the opposition, why would a Hearts fan sing something that could get the club into trouble?

 

So basically both your reasons come down to the consequences of singing these songs?

 

My view on that is that this is only such a hot topic as a result of the mock outrage that has recently gone hand in hand with these kinda things.

 

There is one reason and one reason only that these songs are of danger to the club now and thats as a result of the number of folk who claim to be sickened by the songs, and thats ultimately the point i'm making.

 

I dont believe folk are anywhere near as sickened by these songs / lyrics as they, or the media for that matter, would have you believe.

 

I'm not gonna be so narrow minded to suggest that its not an issue for the club to worry about...... what I am saying is that it is something that should never have been allowed to escalate in to an issue in the first place.

[Paris 84]

Your going off on a number of tangents here mate, so i'm finding it a bit hard to see what your actually getting at.

 

So your saying the songs offend you if they are sung by Hearts fans, BUT...... you couldnt care less if the weedgies sing them???

 

An offensive song is an offensive song - regardless of who its sung by. So you cant say its offensive when Hearts fans sing it, but not when OF fans do.

 

So make up your mind - are you offended by the SONGS / LYRICS or not??

 

Its not about me thinking its acceptable or not. I've already stated, i dont genuinely find ANY of the songs they sing offensive, and thats my point - I'm trying to understand just how many folk ARE genuinely affected by these songs compared to how many folk "claim" to be offended for the sake of it or through some form of feeling like they have to be.

 

Given your response, I think you fall in to that category. Its not the lyrics that offend / bother you - its the folk who choose to sing them that do.

 

It's not that I don't have a problem with the weedgies singing these songs. It's more that I couldn't care as they are just bigotted weedgies who have been born and raised on that crap. I laugh at them both as a group of uneducated semi-literate neanderthals. However as someone born and raised in Edinburgh I know that religion is not an issue in the city, never has been never will be.

 

I just can't accept that for 90 minutes we as a group want to allign ourselves with a bunch of bigoted morons from either Glasgow or even worse Northern Ireland.

[leginten]

I couldn't care less if the bigot brothers want to sing their sectarian crap, it just confirms my opinion of them as fans and football clubs. I HATE when Hearts fans sing that garbage because thist is my club and I have no wish to be associated with mindless bigots, is that enough explanation??

 

I think you've hit the nail on the head. When I think about what really bothers me about life in Scotland, the social divisions, violence and hatred caused by sectarianism in the west actually feature pretty high on the list. Therefore any behaviour that is likely to associate HMFC with the problems the Old Firm feed on is unwelcome in my view. As are the cretins that perpetrate it.

[Erik]

It's not that I don't have a problem with the weedgies singing these songs. It's more that I couldn't care as they are just bigotted weedgies who have been born and raised on that crap. I laugh at them both as a group of uneducated semi-literate neanderthals. However as someone born and raised in Edinburgh I know that religion is not an issue in the city, never has been never will be.

 

I just can't accept that for 90 minutes we as a group want to allign ourselves with a bunch of bigoted morons from either Glasgow or even worse Northern Ireland.

 

Ok, so you DO have a problem with the weedgies singing those lyrics?

 

Your problem is of such a magnitude that you dont care?

 

Your so offended by the lyrics that you choose to laugh at the weedgies for singing them?

 

The last line of your post is interesting though......

[Romanov Stole My Pension]

First of all, I do not participate in sectarianism and would never treat anyone differently because of their race or religion.

But i do believe that sectarianism adds to Scottish football, especially the atmosphere. At Celtic and Hibs games I do get very annoyed when they start crossing themselves, call us orange *******s etc. but int truth that adds to my hatred for them and keeps me going to those games and caring more about the result.

I'll always hate Hibernian, but when Celtic stop singing their usual pish, I won't hate them nearly so much and as a result won't enjoy those games so much.

Hatred keeps football going imo.

[Jambof3tornado]

It bothers me also but only due to the damage it can do to the club I love. It was concerning that it sounded like not a "small minority" from where I was sat(row MM),but a fairly large chunk of supporters who joined in. What also grinds my gears is 16-18 year olds trying to hang up a union jack flag at a hearts game. Now I take no offense at the flag of my nation,I have saluted it many a time,but its as out of place at a Hearts game as Gary Glitter would be at an under 6 year olds swimming lesson!!!

 

Dont think anyone can come on this site slating rangers and celtic over sing songs when our own house is very much out of order!!

[jambos are go!]

I think you've hit the nail on the head. When I think about what really bothers me about life in Scotland, the social divisions, violence and hatred caused by sectarianism in the west actually feature pretty high on the list. Therefore any behaviour that is likely to associate HMFC with the problems the Old Firm feed on is unwelcome in my view. As are the cretins that perpetrate it.

 

Well said. Boils on the backside of humanity

[Jambof3tornado]

First of all, I do not participate in sectarianism and would never treat anyone differently because of their race or religion.

But i do believe that sectarianism adds to Scottish football, especially the atmosphere. At Celtic and Hibs games I do get very annoyed when they start crossing themselves, call us orange *******s etc. but int truth that adds to my hatred for them and keeps me going to those games and caring more about the result.

I'll always hate Hibernian, but when Celtic stop singing their usual pish, I won't hate them nearly so much and as a result won't enjoy those games so much.

Hatred keeps football going imo.

The comment above is exactly what is wrong with scottish football!!!

 

 

There is atmosphere aplenty at a Man Utd V Chelsea game,so what makes you think we need sectarianism up here to add to our game???

[bighusref]

So basically both your reasons come down to the consequences of singing these songs?

 

Largely, yes. There are certain songs (to be mentioned further down) that cannot be tolerated, at any level of society and should be stamped out. However, songs about Hibs/R@ng*rs/C*lt!c and their "past" kinda wash over me, as did the Orman/Shiels stuff. I am just a football fan, I don't need (or want) to opine on religion and race at a game.

 

My view on that is that this is only such a hot topic as a result of the mock outrage that has recently gone hand in hand with these kinda things.

 

There is one reason and one reason only that these songs are of danger to the club now and thats as a result of the number of folk who claim to be sickened by the songs' date=' and thats ultimately the point i'm making.[/quote']

 

I kinda disagree. I see where you are coming from, but it is now past any sort of barometer of moaning minnies and upset people. We could have a whole away end singing the bad songs, with no upset Hearts or Hibs fans but there would be a big chance that we would get into bother for it. That is the chief reason why I cannot understand how it continues. Say, for the sake of debate, I was a royalist and felt that it was a great source of pride, yet I knew that certain songs that could be linked to that get my club in trouble, I would keep that part to myself.

 

I dont believe folk are anywhere near as sickened by these songs / lyrics as they' date=' or the media for that matter, would have you believe.

 

I'm not gonna be so narrow minded to suggest that its not an issue for the club to worry about...... what I am saying is that it is something that should never have been allowed to escalate in to an issue in the first place.[/quote']

 

It depends on the song tbh, there are certain ones that go far too far, yet I will not get upset about narrow minded people singing narrow minded songs. Say, for example, the song that Samster refers to, if I were a black Hearts fan, how would that make me feel? Fellow fans singing songs about ME? Uncalled for. If moaning minnies get rid of songs like that then I will be happy. I don't get upset by the main two sang by the Glasgow two, it simply makes me laugh hearing them laud the queen/pope purely as their football team tells them to.

 

As for the escalation of the problem, that was far above our club and country. Things like England players getting racial abuse from Spanish/Italian/A.N.Other fans brought this all about. That broke the seal.

[coppercrutch]

For once I agree 100% with Dr B. Someone will no doubt come on here and say its all PC hand wringing gone made. Nonsense not singing/ saying offensive and unacceptable things is not PC its just about what is right or wrong. Also those people who claim to only do it at the football or to be 90 minute bigots - bollox. You are either a bigot or you are not, if you are not you dont sing bigoted songs. Why is doing it at the football different or acceptable?

 

In your everyday life:

 

How often do you jump around with complete strangers ?

How often do you hug complete strangers who are male ?

How often do you chant at an opposing group of people - simply because of the colour of their top ?

How often do you feel peed off because someone kicked something the wrong direction ?

How often do you shout abuse at a man standing 10 foot away from you because he has a large belly ?

How often do you shout insults at a man because you think his wife is a slut ?

 

Football IS different.

 

When I shout at a football player in Tynie - I don't actually mean what I say - most of the time anyway!!

 

Do I actually want the ref to get hit by a bus ? NO

Do I shout that I want him to get hit by a bus ? YES

 

Same goes for the singing of sectarian songs. Many people that sing them will do so in the confines of a football ground, and nowhere else.

 

That does not mean it is 'right'. I personally do not sing these myself these days.

 

However it happens. It does not bother me too much. As another poster said far more important things to worry about in life. It is not a big deal IMO.

[letsalllaughathobos]

First of all, I do not participate in sectarianism and would never treat anyone differently because of their race or religion.

But i do believe that sectarianism adds to Scottish football, especially the atmosphere. At Celtic and Hibs games I do get very annoyed when they start crossing themselves, call us orange *******s etc. but int truth that adds to my hatred for them and keeps me going to those games and caring more about the result.

I'll always hate Hibernian, but when Celtic stop singing their usual pish, I won't hate them nearly so much and as a result won't enjoy those games so much.

Hatred keeps football going imo.

bang on hatred is what keeps the ball rolling.

thats why we all dont go to murryfeild to watch ruggers because it *****.

the lets all be "buddies" thing dosent work for me.

 

how many folk when hearts scored yesterday shouted get it up you ya f*****g hibs b******s. (hatred)

plus joined in with hello hello.

 

i personally reckon some people on hear sing all of the songs but just post that they dont to have an online argument.

[MacDonald Jardine]

The comment above is exactly what is wrong with scottish football!!!

 

 

There is atmosphere aplenty at a Man Utd V Chelsea game,so what makes you think we need sectarianism up here to add to our game???

 

Right enough you'll never hear questionable songs from these two will you?

[bigandy]

First of all, I do not participate in sectarianism and would never treat anyone differently because of their race or religion.

But i do believe that sectarianism adds to Scottish football, especially the atmosphere. At Celtic and Hibs games I do get very annoyed when they start crossing themselves, call us orange *******s etc. but int truth that adds to my hatred for them and keeps me going to those games and caring more about the result.

I'll always hate Hibernian, but when Celtic stop singing their usual pish, I won't hate them nearly so much and as a result won't enjoy those games so much.

Hatred keeps football going imo.

 

As I said previously its a sad day when the only way Scottish football can achieve a good atmosphere is through religious bigotry. When I've been working down South I've attended games at a lot of grounds including Old Trafford, White Hart Lane and St James Park and witnesseed some electric atmospheres with no sectarianism involved.

[Dr. Bapswent]

First of all, I do not participate in sectarianism and would never treat anyone differently because of their race or religion.

But i do believe that sectarianism adds to Scottish football, especially the atmosphere. At Celtic and Hibs games I do get very annoyed when they start crossing themselves, call us orange *******s etc. but int truth that adds to my hatred for them and keeps me going to those games and caring more about the result.

I'll always hate Hibernian, but when Celtic stop singing their usual pish, I won't hate them nearly so much and as a result won't enjoy those games so much.

Hatred keeps football going imo.

 

I disagree.

 

Rivalry adds to football.

 

Sectarianism and all other forms of this are just accentuated forms of rivalry, its rivalry taken beyond football to a personal, bigoted and sectarian level.

 

I want Hearts to beat Falkirk just as much as I want them to beat the OF.

 

I just hate the OF more, because of what they stand for and how they go about it.

 

But my desire to see my team win is no less.

 

My desire to put one over on the OF fans is greater.

 

But that is going beyond football, and as a grown adult Im capable if understanding that there is a line to be drawn between football rivalry, and personal hatred.

 

Its a shame that so many on here, and at other clubs are not able to, or choose not to make that distinction and seem to want to encourage others to do the same.

[N User]

I don't want to be associated in any way to the **** that is Rangers Football Club and their fans.

Does these songs sicken me? no.

Does being associated with Rangers disgust me? Definitely.

 

There is no need for it all.

 

The Edinburgh derby has so much more banter/songs to give than racist/sectarian/homophobic/disability songs.

The Romanov songs from Hibs, the Scottish cup songs from us.Wayne Foster, Phil Stamp, John Robertson etc are all better and much more fun that all this "up to our knees in fenian blood" pish

[bigandy]

In your everyday life:

 

How often do you jump around with complete strangers ?

How often do you hug complete strangers who are male ?

How often do you chant at an opposing group of people - simply because of the colour of their top ?

How often do you feel peed off because someone kicked something the wrong direction ?

How often do you shout abuse at a man standing 10 foot away from you because he has a large belly ?

How often do you shout insults at a man because you think his wife is a slut ?

 

Football IS different.

 

When I shout at a football player in Tynie - I don't actually mean what I say - most of the time anyway!!

 

Do I actually want the ref to get hit by a bus ? NO

Do I shout that I want him to get hit by a bus ? YES

 

Same goes for the singing of sectarian songs. Many people that sing them will do so in the confines of a football ground, and nowhere else.

 

That does not mean it is 'right'. I personally do not sing these myself these days.

 

However it happens. It does not bother me too much. As another poster said far more important things to worry about in life. It is not a big deal IMO.

 

 

Sorry but I dont buy this football is different at all. Why should sectarianism and racism be acceptable in a football ground? They are not acceptable and to say it is because it is at the football is a complete cop out.

[Diego10]

Nothing much offends me to be honest. Which is not to say I don't think the songs are unacceptable, because I do. They are more embarassing and depressing than offensive though.

 

embarassing because I and the club I love and the majority of Hearts fans are branded as bigots because of idiots. Depressing because the songs are largely sung by the socially sub-normal who genuinely believe that there is something wrong with being Irish/catholic/foreign.

[Bainy]

it does not bother me in the slightest! i don't let people singing at a football match offend me. and it certainly would not stop me going to games.

[Dr. Bapswent]

In your everyday life:

 

How often do you jump around with complete strangers ?

How often do you hug complete strangers who are male ?

How often do you chant at an opposing group of people - simply because of the colour of their top ?

How often do you feel peed off because someone kicked something the wrong direction ?

How often do you shout abuse at a man standing 10 foot away from you because he has a large belly ?

How often do you shout insults at a man because you think his wife is a slut ?

 

Football IS different.

 

When I shout at a football player in Tynie - I don't actually mean what I say - most of the time anyway!!

 

Do I actually want the ref to get hit by a bus ? NO

Do I shout that I want him to get hit by a bus ? YES

 

Same goes for the singing of sectarian songs. Many people that sing them will do so in the confines of a football ground, and nowhere else.

 

That does not mean it is 'right'. I personally do not sing these myself these days.

 

However it happens. It does not bother me too much. As another poster said far more important things to worry about in life. It is not a big deal IMO.

 

Poorest excuse for accepting sectarianism ever.

[Erik]

There is atmosphere aplenty at a Man Utd V Chelsea game,so what makes you think we need sectarianism up here to add to our game???

 

And if you believe that the rivalry / atmosphere at a Man Utd vs Chelsea match is NOT based on hatred, you are kidding yourself.

 

 

 

Largely, yes. There are certain songs (to be mentioned further down) that cannot be tolerated, at any level of society and should be stamped out. However, songs about Hibs/R@ng*rs/C*lt!c and their "past" kinda wash over me, as did the Orman/Shiels stuff. I am just a football fan, I don't need (or want) to opine on religion and race at a game.

 

 

 

I kinda disagree. I see where you are coming from, but it is now past any sort of barometer of moaning minnies and upset people. We could have a whole away end singing the bad songs, with no upset Hearts or Hibs fans but there would be a big chance that we would get into bother for it. That is the chief reason why I cannot understand how it continues. Say, for the sake of debate, I was a royalist and felt that it was a great source of pride, yet I knew that certain songs that could be linked to that get my club in trouble, I would keep that part to myself.

 

 

 

It depends on the song tbh, there are certain ones that go far too far, yet I will not get upset about narrow minded people singing narrow minded songs. Say, for example, the song that Samster refers to, if I were a black Hearts fan, how would that make me feel? Fellow fans singing songs about ME? Uncalled for. If moaning minnies get rid of songs like that then I will be happy. I don't get upset by the main two sang by the Glasgow two, it simply makes me laugh hearing them laud the queen/pope purely as their football team tells them to.

 

As for the escalation of the problem, that was far above our club and country. Things like England players getting racial abuse from Spanish/Italian/A.N.Other fans brought this all about. That broke the seal.

 

Good post mate - i guess thats actually not too far away from my own feelings on the matter.... I do agree that there is a line of decency which probably shouldnt be crossed, but at the same time I think a lot of the "outrage" is fuss over nothing.

[coppercrutch]

Sorry but I dont buy this football is different at all. Why should sectarianism and racism be acceptable in a football ground? They are not acceptable and to say it is because it is at the football is a complete cop out.

 

 

Serious question - have you ever been to a football game ?

 

I also never said sectarianism or racism was acceptable in a football ground.

 

Is abusing a person because of their weight acceptable simply because it is in a football ground ?

 

Either show me a historical post where you have stated this and got your knickers in a twist about it?????... or give it a rest.

 

I seriously cannot abide those that pick and choose what is 'acceptable' or not for them to hear.

[coppercrutch]

Poorest excuse for accepting sectarianism ever.

 

Poorest effort to skip around a posters points, because you know they are good ones, ever.

 

[bigandy]

Serious question - have you ever been to a football game ?

 

I also never said sectarianism or racism was acceptable in a football ground.

 

Is abusing a person because of their weight acceptable simply because it is in a football ground ?

 

Either show me a historical post where you have stated this and got your knickers in a twist about it?????... or give it a rest.

 

I seriously cannot abide those that pick and choose what is 'acceptable' or not for them to hear.

 

Been to hundreds of football games.

 

I dont have to show you any historical posts.

 

If you seriously cant see why people find hearing vile sectarianism or racism is unacceptable then theres no point in you debating.

I'll ask again WHY is something so clearly unacceptable deemed acceptable because it is done in a football ground?