Sectarianism / Outrage.

[bighusref]

With great respect, what nonsense.

 

I can just about agree with the idea that because most people start following a team because of their family alleigances, it is quite possible that a lot of Catholics follow Hibs.

 

But I cant believe that any sensible person picks their football team based on events 120 years ago and this is the point really.

 

Any sensible person picking a team to support in the last 20 years would pick Hearts over Hibs - we all know the reasons and we boast about them every day on here and laugh at the Hobos attempts to counter them (first to wear the green puh-leese).

 

So if we dont have a fairly representative support, thats because some people have been alienated by the element of our support which believes its all just "harmless banter".

 

Do you think Elias Furst would have saved this club from going under if he'd heard our support singing Edinburgh is wonderful ?

 

The irony is that our knuckle-scrapers are amongst the first to get indignant about upholding the honour of our brave war heroes (and quite rightly) but they can seemingly spit on the memory of a man who actually saved our club without even thinking about it.

 

GC

 

I actually think there is a middle ground between your post and Legends. I would suggest that the vast majority of catholic EDUCATED football fans in Edinburgh are C*lt!c fans.

[Sherlock]

Not doubting you and you may well be right in which case I apologise for saying its nonsense. However, it really ought to be nonsense in this day and age in a so-called civilised society.

 

GC

 

Go to any RC school in Scotland, with perhaps the exception of any around the East of Edinburgh, and i'm 100% confident that the majority of pupils will support ra sellik. Regardless of the part of the country the school is located.

 

It should be nonsense in this day and age but it isn't.

[coppercrutch]

Anyone who takes anything they hear at a football game too seriously, well...............enough said.

 

Best line in this whole debate.

[londonjambo]

 

I find the Europe song offensive. I go to Hearts games. According to your own logic that means this song is now unacceptable.

 

Extreme example but you get the point.

 

Yes, it is an extreme example and yes, following my logic, your argument would logically be correct.

 

But the premise underlying your logic is that you find the Europe song offensive to which my response would be "why"

 

I am not disagreeing with your logic, merely with your example.

 

GC

[bigandy]

As I said before there is no such thing as a 90 minute bigot or racist you either are bigoted or racist or you are not. In my opinion if you sing Edinburgh is Wonderful anywhere football ground or not you are clearly racist. If you spend 90 minutes screaming at players telling them they are dirty f****n bassas then you clearly have some sort of problem with Catholics. We are adults if you dont agree with what is being sung DONT sing it like some school boy not wanting to be left out of the gang.

[Gambo]

Och Gambo, come on. A "their bigots are as bad as our bigots" response isnt really a terribly well thought through argument is it and I'd be telling my 4 year old off if she had made that point.

 

In any event, none of the people I was talking about supports Hibs.

 

Now, answer my question about that song.

 

GC

 

'Also I imagine that some catholics from Edinburgh support Hibs rather than Hearts precisely because of the sectarianism issue and the feeling that certain types of people aren't welcome as supporters of certain clubs'

 

I apologise if i have read it wrong, but the above was what you highlighted from Victor Meldrews post and............ you said you know this for a fact. ????? Did i read it wrong (i've underlined the bit which made me ask my original question)?

 

 

 

Re the Edinburgh song...............yes it is wrong but i do not get worked up about it......i would replace the words with' Hibs, Hibernian and hobos':p.

 

I would rather start singing a more football related song over the top off them instead of moaning, i am sure they would all then join in as they are all Hearts fans. They sing their type of songs to try and create an atmosphere, but i am sure they would be more than happy to join in 'normal' (i think someone out there could find a problem with every song mind you*) songs if they were already being sung.

 

********/Jews/Blacks/Catholics/Protestant/English/dyslexic (if you cannae spell it then here's what it says;))/disabled/ginger/bald/glasses/gay/weegies etc etc............which ones are okay to sing about and which are not???

[londonjambo]

 

I find the Europe song offensive. I go to Hearts games. According to your own logic that means this song is now unacceptable.

 

Extreme example but you get the point.

 

Incidentally, does this mean you think "EiW" is an acceptable song to sing ?

 

GC

[Guest jambomickey]

I actually think there is a middle ground between your post and Legends. I would suggest that the vast majority of catholic EDUCATED football fans in Edinburgh are C*lt!c fans.

 

well you've met me mate and i'm a catholic hearts supporter, long term season ticket holder and shareholder. there no place at hearts fc for some of the songs and the things we see on display by some

[londonjambo]

'Also I imagine that some catholics from Edinburgh support Hibs rather than Hearts precisely because of the sectarianism issue and the feeling that certain types of people aren't welcome as supporters of certain clubs'

 

I apologise if i have read it wrong, but the above was what you highlighted from Victor Meldrews post and............ you said you know this for a fact. ????? Did i read it wrong (i've underlined the bit which made me ask my original question)?

 

 

 

Re the Edinburgh song...............yes it is wrong but i do not get worked up about it......i would replace the words with' Hibs, Hibernian and hobos':p.

 

I would rather start singing a more football related song over the top off them instead of moaning, i am sure they would all then join in as they are all Hearts fans. They sing their type of songs to try and create an atmosphere, but i am sure they would be more than happy to join in 'normal' (i think someone out there could find a problem with every song mind you*) songs if they were already being sung.

 

********/Jews/Blacks/Catholics/Protestant/English/dyslexic (if you cannae spell it then here's what it says;))/disabled/ginger/bald/glasses/gay/weegies etc etc............which ones are okay to sing about and which are not???

 

Fair enough and your point is right - I did highlight VM's post though the people I had in mind didnt go on to support Hibs - just wouldnt come to Hearts matches any more. I didnt make that clear. Apollogies.

 

Glad to see you'd change the words to that song and that you can see its wrong and I assume therefore that you dont sing it. My point is aimed at those who do.

 

As to your other point, I agree with you up to a point. There are plenty of Hearts songs out there which would support our team without offending anyone or threatening to alienate anyone.

 

GC

[coppercrutch]

Yes, it is an extreme example and yes, following my logic, your argument would logically be correct.

 

But the premise underlying your logic is that you find the Europe song offensive to which my response would be "why"

 

I am not disagreeing with your logic, merely with your example.

 

GC

 

Fair point. I would simply say I was offended by it. Does there have to be a reason ? Frank Sinatra once shagged my cat perhaps...

 

I would ask the same about the hello hello song. None of the reasons people give for being offended by it, with the fenian word removed, hold any sway IMO.

 

Of course something like the Edinburgh is Wonderful song is a bit more obvious why it is offensive. I don't sing it myself. I don't agree with it. However if someone decides to sing it I won't be losing any sleep over it.

 

I can't exactly be all offended by some guy saying he hates ******* - when in the next breath I shout about how I hate a certain footballer simply because of who he works for.

 

That would make me a massive hypocrite.

 

I think most of those that are offended by some of these 'offensive' songs are massive hypocrites.

 

To justify this they say things like "You can't compare abusing a fat person to abusing a Catholic"

 

Well I am sorry but that is simply nonsense. It is completely hypocritical. Abusing someone is abusing someone. Full stop.

 

PS - As if by magic the first story on the news tonight was about a women getting shot in the face in Iraq due to her being a Christian. Story on now is about a computer game that has been delayed due to it simply having 2 lines from the Koran in a background song. The fact this song was written by a Muslim does not seem to matter. Then we have a Muslim bird on decrying about the nonsense 'Offended' gang in this country that is growing by the day.

 

I get the feeling she wouldn't have much problem sitting in a Hearts end whilst some fans sing 'bad' things...........

[coppercrutch]

well you've met me mate and i'm a catholic hearts supporter, long term season ticket holder and shareholder. there no place at hearts fc for some of the songs and the things we see on display by some

 

Well I am a ginger and balding Hearts supporter. :eek:Long term season ticket holder and 500 club member. There is no place at hearts fc for some of the songs and the things we see on display by those abusing ginger and bald people at the games..............

 

So is my 'offense' going to lead to these sort of songs being banned ? Is it ****.

 

You need to get a set of balls and suck it in.

 

Jeez there are some weak people around these days. I am away to cry in a corner because somebody abused gingers....

 

Give me ****ing strength..There are ***** on TV in Zimbabwe dying of starvation and losers like you get offended by people singing nasty songs.

 

Stop being so self obsessed.

[hinksikensi]

Sectarianism is a battle that can't be won. It's been going on for hundreds of years with millions of families across Scotland and Britain steeped in it. Not saying it's right but thats the way it is.

 

No song at football offends me. Like someone said if you get all worked up about a few songs at football, then i'd like to have your life if thats your biggest worry.

 

If you ban songs offensive to religous people then you have to ban songs against fat/ginger/speccy/bald/spotty or anything that can be deemed offensive. So it's either ban all or don't ban any.

 

Now i'm a protestant and a unionist but celtic songs don't bother me in the slightest. They've got their views and i've got my views.

 

p.s 90% of Edinburgh catholics i know are celtic fans. The other 10 split with hibs/hearts

[bigandy]

Jesus how exactly does what happens in Zimbabwe or India have any bearing on sectarianism or racism at football iin Edinburgh? Its like me saying I jumped a guy on Saturday night and gave him a kicking and when someone says I'm out of order I say 'Dry your eyes if he was in Glasgow he would have been chibbed or in Brooklyn he would have been shot - theres worse things goinfg on in the world than getting a few cuts and bruises'

[Pants Shaton]

Incidentally, does this mean you think "EiW" is an acceptable song to sing ?

 

GC

 

 

 

I've put the challenge out to the 'non-PC brigade' before and, surprisingly, things go a little quiet. I've heard around 100 people singing that song at away games, you'd expect one or two of them use this forum.

[Guest jambomickey]

Well I am a ginger and balding Hearts supporter. :eek:Long term season ticket holder and 500 club member. There is no place at hearts fc for some of the songs and the things we see on display by those abusing ginger and bald people at the games..............

 

So is my 'offense' going to lead to these sort of songs being banned ? Is it ****.

 

You need to get a set of balls and suck it in.

 

Jeez there are some weak people around these days. I am away to cry in a corner because somebody abused gingers....

 

Give me ****ing strength..There are ***** on TV in Zimbabwe dying of starvation and losers like you get offended by people singing nasty songs.

 

Stop being so self obsessed.

 

what you slavering about? hearts is not a sectarian or racist football club and has nothing to do with northern ireland

[hinksikensi]

Jambomickey we may not be a sectarian or racist club.......

 

But we ARE a BRITISH and SCOTTISH club therfore anything to do with being pro British is fine

[bigandy]

Jambomickey we may not be a sectarian or racist club.......

 

But we ARE a BRITISH and SCOTTISH club therfore anything to do with being pro British is fine

 

I dont really see why anyone feels the need to be pro British or pro Scottish at a game of football. I think politics be it Nationalism or Unionism has as little place in football as religion.

[Diego10]

Whilst you don't say "ITS OK" to abuse these people you certainly seem to think it is no big deal...

 

 

 

 

 

And you are also wring in pretty much everything you say. It is not possible for someone to 'switch on' and off being a bigot ? Well I would beg to differ.

 

 

Do people that shout abuse at people with glasses at a football game continue this outside the ground? NO!!

 

You see they can become 'spectacle haters' for 90 minutes and then switch it off. Same goes for any other sort of actions.

 

I am the blind and ignorant one.

 

Yeah sure. I do find it amsuing how all of the 'easily offended' brigade are ALWAYS the most abusive on these threads. Little bit hypocritical maybe..

 

I'll give this one more try to see if it penetrates, then I'll give up.

 

No, you can't switch on and off being a bigot. If you sing bigoted songs, it's because you're a bigot. simple enough?

 

I'm not 'offended' by anything, I go home at night and sleep well after hearing it. but it's a **** weak excuse to say that it's acceptable to sing racist or sectarian songs because some people shout abuse at ginger haired people, fat people or bald people. I fit pretty well into two of those categories myself. Those groups are not victims of violence, or day-to-day institutionalised hatred though, so it's completely disingenuous to suggest the things are on a par. When we have a song singing about being up to our knees in baldies blood, then we might have an issue.

 

Until that point I will continue to think that the songs are wrong, and the singers are wrong.

[Guest jambomickey]

Jambomickey we may not be a sectarian or racist club.......

 

But we ARE a BRITISH and SCOTTISH club therfore anything to do with being pro British is fine

 

you know fine well what i'm getting at and you also know it's unacceptable

[Pants Shaton]

Well I am a ginger and balding Hearts supporter. :eek:Long term season ticket holder and 500 club member. There is no place at hearts fc for some of the songs and the things we see on display by those abusing ginger and bald people at the games..............

 

No doubt you're joking but people do employ this argument. Jimmy Hill said that Ron Atkinson's 'thick, lazy, n*gger' comment was no more offensive than people who called him 'Chinny'. Failing to appreciate that no large-chinned people have been enslaved, persecuted, disenfranchised or murdered as a consequence of their chininess.

 

Your 'anything goes' argument would be truly revolting if taken to its logical conclusion.

[coppercrutch]

Jesus how exactly does what happens in Zimbabwe or India have any bearing on sectarianism or racism at football iin Edinburgh? Its like me saying I jumped a guy on Saturday night and gave him a kicking and when someone says I'm out of order I say 'Dry your eyes if he was in Glasgow he would have been chibbed or in Brooklyn he would have been shot - theres worse things goinfg on in the world than getting a few cuts and bruises'

 

Because it shows there are far bigger issues out there than someone saying a bad word at a football game.

 

 

I've put the challenge out to the 'non-PC brigade' before and, surprisingly, things go a little quiet. I've heard around 100 people singing that song at away games, you'd expect one or two of them use this forum.

 

I answered the exact question above.

 

what you slavering about? hearts is not a sectarian or racist football club and has nothing to do with northern ireland

 

Where did I mention Northern Ireland ?

 

I'll give this one more try to see if it penetrates, then I'll give up.

 

No, you can't switch on and off being a bigot. If you sing bigoted songs, it's because you're a bigot. simple enough?

 

I'm not 'offended' by anything, I go home at night and sleep well after hearing it. but it's a **** weak excuse to say that it's acceptable to sing racist or sectarian songs because some people shout abuse at ginger haired people, fat people or bald people. I fit pretty well into two of those categories myself. Those groups are not victims of violence, or day-to-day institutionalised hatred though, so it's completely disingenuous to suggest the things are on a par. When we have a song singing about being up to our knees in baldies blood, then we might have an issue.

 

Until that point I will continue to think that the songs are wrong, and the singers are wrong.

 

Simple enough for someone that has little capacity for thought.

 

Let me make it easy for you:

 

I am about to type something.

 

I HATE ALL ****ING ITALIANS I WANT THEM ALL TO DIE.

 

I don't actually mean the above. It is simply words. Get it. Comprende ? not rocket science.

 

When people say certain things at football games many do not mean it. Seriously do you not understand this ? How can you not understand this ?!

 

If you seriously think everyone who shouts something actually ALWAYS means it - you really need to get out in the real World.

 

Your little pink fluffy cloud land must be great. Unfortunately the rest of us don't live in this wee bubble. We live in the real Word. A World where people sometimes say things they don't mean.

 

Can't beleive I am actually having to explain this. I imagine most 8 year olds understand this concept.

[Victor Meldrew]

Sectarianism is a battle that can't be won. It's been going on for hundreds of years with millions of families across Scotland and Britain steeped in it. Not saying it's right but thats the way it is.

 

No song at football offends me. Like someone said if you get all worked up about a few songs at football, then i'd like to have your life if thats your biggest worry.

 

If you ban songs offensive to religous people then you have to ban songs against fat/ginger/speccy/bald/spotty or anything that can be deemed offensive. So it's either ban all or don't ban any.

 

Now i'm a protestant and a unionist but celtic songs don't bother me in the slightest. They've got their views and i've got my views.

 

p.s 90% of Edinburgh catholics i know are celtic fans. The other 10 split with hibs/hearts

 

 

OK, so there is a long history of sectarianism in Scotland - that doesn't make it right though, does it?

 

It certainly has no place in football in my opinion. Let the Orange lodges put on their silly hats and sashes and march around somewhere grim in the Central

Belt like Airdrie if they want to: we can all decide to leave them to it if they want.

 

But HMFC should be for everyone regardless of religion, race, nationality etc. Signing sectarian songs undermines that.

[Guest jambomickey]

Because it shows there are far bigger issues out there than someone saying a bad word at a football game.

 

 

 

 

I answered the exact question above.

 

 

 

Where did I mention Northern Ireland ?

 

 

 

Simple enough for someone that has little capacity for thought.

 

Let me make it easy for you:

 

I am about to type something.

 

I HATE ALL ****ING ITALIANS I WANT THEM ALL TO DIE.

 

I don't actually mean the above. It is simply words. Get it. Comprende ? not rocket science.

 

When people say certain things at football games many do not mean it. Seriously do you not understand this ? How can you not understand this ?!

 

If you seriously think everyone who shouts something actually ALWAYS means it - you really need to get out in the real World.

 

Your little pink fluffy cloud land must be great. Unfortunately the rest of us don't live in this wee bubble. We live in the real Word. A World where people sometimes say things they don't mean.

 

Can't beleive I am actually having to explain this. I imagine most 8 year olds understand this concept.

 

well ther was plenty things on display yesterday more assosiated with northern ireland and rangers

[coppercrutch]

No doubt you're joking but people do employ this argument. Jimmy Hill said that Ron Atkinson's 'thick, lazy, n*gger' comment was no more offensive than people who called him 'Chinny'. Failing to appreciate that no large-chinned people have been enslaved, persecuted, disenfranchised or murdered as a consequence of their chininess.

 

Your 'anything goes' argument would be truly revolting if taken to its logical conclusion.

 

So many people live in this lovely pink fluffy cloud World !!

 

Where do I get one. I want a pink fluffy bubble !!

 

It's football. People say nasty things. I don't agree with it. I don't do it myself.

 

But who gives a ****.

 

Get over it.

[coppercrutch]

well ther was plenty things on display yesterday more assosiated with northern ireland and rangers

 

And just what exactly does that have to do with what I said ? Why are you brinign up Northern Ireland ?

 

Why do you have a problem with Northern Ireland ?

 

HMFC has many Northern Irish fans I imagine. Would you have a problem with a Ghanain Hearts fan taking their flag to the game ?

[hinksikensi]

OK, so there is a long history of sectarianism in Scotland - that doesn't make it right though, does it?

 

See the first line of my message mate. I state it's not right but thats the way it is.

 

Jambomickey... A Union Jack is NOT A Rangers flag!!!!!!! Its OUR flag. You, me and 60 million other peoples flag

[Guest jambomickey]

And just what exactly does that have to do with what I said ? Why are you brinign up Northern Ireland ?

 

Why do you have a problem with Northern Ireland ?

 

HMFC has many Northern Irish fans I imagine. Would you have a problem with a Ghanain Hearts fan taking their flag to the game ?

 

you know fine well that the ones with those things are bigots and are spilling hatred out of there mouths and using hearts matches as a vehicle to do it

[Guest jambomickey]

OK' date=' so there is a long history of sectarianism in Scotland - that doesn't make it right though, does it?

 

See the first line of my message mate. I state it's not right but thats the way it is.

 

Jambomickey... A Union Jack is NOT A Rangers flag!!!!!!! Its OUR flag. You, me and 60 million other peoples flag[/quote']

 

what about the one with the red hand in the middle?

[hinksikensi]

I agree the Red hand of Ulster flag has nothing to do with hearts as it's specifically representitive of one community within the UK. Not one i really identify with to be honest.

 

But the Union Flag IS something i identify myself with as its the flag of Britain.

[coppercrutch]

you know fine well that the ones with those things are bigots and are spilling hatred out of there mouths and using hearts matches as a vehicle to do it

 

Yes - everyone who has a UJ or sings hullo hullo is a bigot.

 

what about the one with the red hand in the middle?

 

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't that the flag of Northern Ireland. Is there something wrong with that ?

 

Anyway you are starting a flag debate and that is against the rules of this forum IIRC.

 

I think I am starting to work out where you are coming from. You are getting a little obvious now.

 

They have pubs in Boston that are probably more your cup of tea.

[Guest jambomickey]

Yes - everyone who has a UJ or sings hullo hullo is a bigot.

 

 

 

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't that the flag of Northern Ireland. Is there something wrong with that ?

 

Anyway you are starting a flag debate and that is against the rules of this forum IIRC.

 

I think I am starting to work out where you are coming from. You are getting a little obvious now.

 

They have pubs in Boston that are probably more your cup of tea.

 

i've never mentioned the word flags and have been very careful not too, there's a small minority who are a disgrace to hearts fc and the sectarian bile has no place at tynecastle

[shaun.lawson]

But who gives a ****.

 

 

The people the songs and chants are aimed at - that's who. And so they should.

[Doctor FinnBarr]

The people the songs and chants are aimed at - that's who. And so they should.

 

What happened to your self imposed exile?

 

[shaun.lawson]

What happened to your self imposed exile?

 

 

Er, indeed! I'm back, and very, very sorry for behaving like such a complete dick.

[Dazo]

What happened to your self imposed exile?

 

 

 

 

he has just finished his book.

 

How to make a erse of yourself - by shaun.lawson

[Stanley_]

Er, indeed! I'm back, and very, very sorry for behaving like such a complete dick.

 

If there's one thing worse than starting a thread telling everyone you're leaving, it's starting a thread telling everyone you're leaving and coming back to post only days later.

 

I think I had more respect for you before you started posting again.

 

Then again, it's only a messageboard.

[coppercrutch]

i've never mentioned the word flags and have been very careful not too, there's a small minority who are a disgrace to hearts fc and the sectarian bile has no place at tynecastle

 

Ah I see. Fair dos.

 

You have to remember though that some of the things you deem as sectarian may not actually be so. There are legitimate reasons why certain things may be brought to Hearts games that have nothing to do with sectarianism.

 

The people the songs and chants are aimed at - that's who. And so they should.

 

I have been to games in England against Scotland. I heard all sorts of abuse directed towards us. I drank in boozers before and after the game with these very same people. For the vast majority these 'racist' chants were nothing more than words.

 

I didn't let it get to me. If any opposing fans get offended by what Hearts fans sing at games they must have a pretty perfect and sheltered life.

 

Why people get so up in arms about it I really do not know.

[shaun.lawson]

 

 

he has just finished his book.

 

How to make a erse of yourself - by shaun.lawson

 

 

I just hope that there'll never be any chance of a sequel! I mean, that thread: what an absolute trumpet.

[shaun.lawson]

If there's one thing worse than starting a thread telling everyone you're leaving, it's starting a thread telling everyone you're leaving and coming back to post only days later.

 

I think I had more respect for you before you started posting again.

 

Then again, it's only a messageboard.

 

Sure. But having made such a complete erse of myself, I think it's better to front up and take the criticism I deserve in spades for being such a plank.

[Pants Shaton]

I didn't let it get to me. If any opposing fans get offended by what Hearts fans sing at games they must have a pretty perfect and sheltered life.

 

Why people get so up in arms about it I really do not know.

 

Let's take your 'why get offended by anything?' argument to its extreme then.

 

If a crowd of us start singing songs celebrating the death of a Hibs supporting childhood cancer victim or belt out a tribute to the third reich and their acheivements at Auschwitz that's acceptable?

[shaun.lawson]

Ah I see. Fair dos.

 

 

 

I have been to games in England against Scotland. I heard all sorts of abuse directed towards us. I drank in boozers before and after the game with these very same people. For the vast majority these 'racist' chants were nothing more than words.

 

I didn't let it get to me. If any opposing fans get offended by what Hearts fans sing at games they must have a pretty perfect and sheltered life.

 

Why people get so up in arms about it I really do not know.

 

There's a line, CC - set I guess by societal norms. What football fans are allowed to do goes well beyond these, and rightly so - but racism and sectarianism are considered completely beyond the pale, and most fans are in full agreement with this.

[Toxteth O'Grady]

I've never been offended by anything I've heard at a football match

[JAYEL]

Er, indeed! I'm back, and very, very sorry for behaving like such a complete dick.

 

 

Welcome back.

 

 

Now behave.

 

[Doctor FinnBarr]

Er, indeed! I'm back, and very, very sorry for behaving like such a complete dick.

Ok, just wondering.PS. Does the New Inn still exist in Crawley?

[Generic Username]

I honestly believe the sectarian element in our support is dying each week. It's still there but it's fighting a losing battle.

 

Sectarian nonsense isn't really what we're about is it? Is that how we want to be known as a club?

 

I don't really get offended by these songs, it is more of an iritant. Nothing in these songs is applicable to me. Singing "hello hello" and saying "we're up to our knee's in fenian blood" - I'm not up to my knee's in anyone's blood and if I were what religion the person is who's blood is of zero importance.

 

I'd be more concerned with how on earth I ended up in such a situation than wanting to sing about it.

[Brandt]

I've never been offended by anything I've heard at a football match

 

I thought the same but there was one version of tony mowbray monkey heed which i heard which had a reference to his late wife in it. I actually cringed. What an awful thing to say/sing.

[Ray Winstone]

I do not personally get offended by anything sung at matches, however there are various songs that simply do not have a place in football and there are plenty of people who are personally offended by them

[coppercrutch]

Let's take your 'why get offended by anything?' argument to its extreme then.

 

If a crowd of us start singing songs celebrating the death of a Hibs supporting childhood cancer victim or belt out a tribute to the third reich and their acheivements at Auschwitz that's acceptable?

 

It is not up to me to decide what is acceptable or not. I wouldn't like either of the above songs being sung - however I would not be "shaking with rage" either.

 

There's a line, CC - set I guess by societal norms. What football fans are allowed to do goes well beyond these, and rightly so - but racism and sectarianism are considered completely beyond the pale, and most fans are in full agreement with this.

 

I do agree that some things go over this 'imaginary line'. However it is not up to me to decide where this line lies. I may find something unacceptable that someone else may not - and vice versa.

 

No point getting too worried about it.

 

 

Anyway welcome back !!

[shaun.lawson]

Ok, just wondering.PS. Does the New Inn still exist in Crawley?

 

I wouldn't know, to be honest! I've not been to Crawley since taking in an FA Cup tie there with some Barnet-supporting mates about 15 years ago now.

[Ivan Drago]

Er, indeed! I'm back, and very, very sorry for behaving like such a complete dick.

 

 

I jumped out of a parachute for this?