Playing like shitebags and rolling over to rangers

[Jocam2325]

Just now, Chuck Berry said:

 

They're all Rangers men as well remember, so probably wanted us to lose anyway.

Indeed, I'd forgotten that. 

[leginten]

34 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

We’ve been in transformation for years.

Football teams are constantly changing. We don’t really know what our personnel next season will look like, or whether certain players who maybe don’t look great at the moment have the capacity to improve. Shankland might be here, he might not. Huge difference. Which is why the “work in progress” stuff is all very well when applied to what is happening off the pitch, including the development of young players, but not really useful or interesting when assessing performances like yesterday’s.

[Pasquale for King]

6 minutes ago, leginten said:

Football teams are constantly changing. We don’t really know what our personnel next season will look like, or whether certain players who maybe don’t look great at the moment have the capacity to improve. Shankland might be here, he might not. Huge difference. Which is why the “work in progress” stuff is all very well when applied to what is happening off the pitch, including the development of young players, but not really useful or interesting when assessing performances like yesterday’s.

Not sure we have that many that can improve unfortunately, but if we play possession based football then no matter who we sign the football will be similar. 

[boag1874]

20 minutes ago, Famous 1874 said:

We do have a bit of a weak mentality against Rangers, that’s undeniable. Ultimately a difference in player quality too which is obvious. 
 

However I saw a good tweet on Twitter last night which discussed the profiles of players between Celtic and Rangers, and how our games between Celtic are often tighter due to the fact that at times we can bully them. 
 

Whereas if you looked at the Rangers starting outfield 10. You’ve got about 7 who I’d consider pretty physical - Balogun, Souttar, Sterling, Lundstram, Diomande, Sima and Dessers. 
 

I think in the summer whilst also improving the quality of player, we should improve the quality of physicality. We need more pace and power.

 

Only really Kent outfield who you’d say is physically dominant. Devlin puts himself about but is a wee guy. Shanks and Kingsley not terribly far off that physical bracket that you want.
 

Rowles in particular is slight for a centre back. Atkinson, Beni, Vargas, Grant and Forrest aren’t strong either. Vargas and Forrest at least have some wheels. 

Exactly what I've been saying to OF supporting mates for quite a while. People categorise them together because they're the two best teams but in reality they both ask different questions of us that need different answers.

 

Rangers are definitely a more physically imposing side than Celtic, no question about it, in terms of both pace & power. Been that way since the Gerrard days & it's why they compete better than Celtic in Europe.

[The Real Maroonblood]

21 minutes ago, leginten said:

Football teams are constantly changing. We don’t really know what our personnel next season will look like, or whether certain players who maybe don’t look great at the moment have the capacity to improve. Shankland might be here, he might not. Huge difference. Which is why the “work in progress” stuff is all very well when applied to what is happening off the pitch, including the development of young players, but not really useful or interesting when assessing performances like yesterday’s.

Fair comment.

The words transformation or it’s a learning curve to me can be a cop out for a teams misgivings.

[Debut 4]

22 minutes ago, leginten said:

Football teams are constantly changing. We don’t really know what our personnel next season will look like, or whether certain players who maybe don’t look great at the moment have the capacity to improve. Shankland might be here, he might not. Huge difference. Which is why the “work in progress” stuff is all very well when applied to what is happening off the pitch, including the development of young players, but not really useful or interesting when assessing performances like yesterday’s.

I agree. We get the same “bit of perspective” stuff after games like yesterday as we have for years and years like we are guaranteed that something special is happening in 2 or 3 years time. 
 

The development of a team largely comes down to the nous of the manager from learning about days like yesterday. 
 

You almost have to get it right at a size of club like Hearts quite quickly to get to a place you can grab moments like 1998 or 2006.  
 

You just have to look at JJs spell and how he changed the squad per season from 1996 to 1998 while managing to keep a small core of solid professionals along the way. 

[spirt of 98]

Why are we always so poor against Rangers?

 

Is it the Managers being over cautious!

 

Is it the players not following instructions? I note our press was half hearted. Is this the players fault. You can’t do a half press as we seen it just leaves players in space to pass too and defeats the purpose. Not the first time we’ve pressed with 70% of team executing the press. 
 

I think on the lead up to the game it was clear to all that Rangers were weak and teams that got up in their face took points from them in the league. Why did we not go with that up and at them plan. I genuinely think we would have won if we had taken the game to them instead of giving them half an hour to get in their stride.

 

On another note why do we always make Cantwell look good he’s absolutely gash but we sit off him and let him stroll about and spray passes like he is Messi.

 

Is this all down to Managers thinking  we can keep it tight and nick a goal. A tactic that rarely pays off for us. 

 

 

[ArcticJambo]

8 hours ago, GinRummy said:

It just wears you down that it doesn’t matter how badly the Huns play they always manage to beat us. They can be on shocking form, have poorer players than usual and we just crumble every time with slow starts, unforced errors and poor decision making the current ways we’ve found to lose against them. 

 

This sums it up for me, unfortunately.  Every ****ing time, we manage to find a combination of the various options to shit the bed.  Its actually quite impressive!

[JayTeeJnr]

15 minutes ago, spirt of 98 said:

Why are we always so poor against Rangers?

 

Is it the Managers being over cautious!

 

Is it the players not following instructions? I note our press was half hearted. Is this the players fault. You can’t do a half press as we seen it just leaves players in space to pass too and defeats the purpose. Not the first time we’ve pressed with 70% of team executing the press. 
 

I think on the lead up to the game it was clear to all that Rangers were weak and teams that got up in their face took points from them in the league. Why did we not go with that up and at them plan. I genuinely think we would have won if we had taken the game to them instead of giving them half an hour to get in their stride.

 

On another note why do we always make Cantwell look good he’s absolutely gash but we sit off him and let him stroll about and spray passes like he is Messi.

 

Is this all down to Managers thinking  we can keep it tight and nick a goal. A tactic that rarely pays off for us. 

 

 

There were a few occasions where we closed Rangers down in a pack and won the ball but more often Rangers had time to pick a pass to a teammate in midfield who was in acres of space. By the time the Hearts player got to them, the ball had already gone.

 

Either the tactics aren’t clear to our players or they’re not prepared to put in the effort to implement them.

 

In contrast when our players received the ball, they were immediately under pressure. Sadly our forward players were very poor at shielding the ball too.

[kingantti1874]

26 minutes ago, spirt of 98 said:

Why are we always so poor against Rangers?

 

Is it the Managers being over cautious!

 

Is it the players not following instructions? I note our press was half hearted. Is this the players fault. You can’t do a half press as we seen it just leaves players in space to pass too and defeats the purpose. Not the first time we’ve pressed with 70% of team executing the press. 
 

I think on the lead up to the game it was clear to all that Rangers were weak and teams that got up in their face took points from them in the league. Why did we not go with that up and at them plan. I genuinely think we would have won if we had taken the game to them instead of giving them half an hour to get in their stride.

 

On another note why do we always make Cantwell look good he’s absolutely gash but we sit off him and let him stroll about and spray passes like he is Messi.

 

Is this all down to Managers thinking  we can keep it tight and nick a goal. A tactic that rarely pays off for us. 

 

 

Style I think.  Physically rangers always seem to bully us in key positions.  And rangers weakness is when they are pressed but hearts are not a good pressing team, we have barely done it all season.  shanks isn’t good at pressing, neither is beni and neither is Grant.  Unless all players can press effectively it doesn’t work.  We don’t press anyone.  It’s not our game.  
 

that is something we need to fix.  But that can only be done with personnel changes imo 

 

also.  I do feel that early goal killed us yesteday.  Ratcheted up the pressure, impacted our decision making.  Had we worked our way in the game I’m convinced we’d have gone through 
 

 

[dannymack]

9 minutes ago, spirt of 98 said:

Why are we always so poor against Rangers?

 

 

 

 

Club mentality, superstition, hoodoo's, monkeys ???? Who knows ? 

 

1961 League Cup Final

1976 Cup Final

1977 Cup Semi Final

1982 League Cup SF

1988 League Cup SF

1993 Cup SF

1996 Cup Final

1996 League Cup Final

1998 Cup Final *

2003 League Cup SF

2008 League Cup SF

2019 League Cup SF

2022 Cup Final 

2023 League Cup SF

2024 Cup Final

 

*Winners 

[ArcticJambo]

1 hour ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

I only remember one from Oda?  Wouldn’t the 3rd one be the point blank Kent one in the first half?  It would have been ruled offside by VAR had it gone in but the linesman didn’t put his flag up and we actually got a corner. 

 

... and the Oda one was a bit disappointing really; it wasn't a OMG, what a save shot, essentially hit the keeper if we're being honest.

[Pasquale for King]

36 minutes ago, spirt of 98 said:

Why are we always so poor against Rangers?

 

Is it the Managers being over cautious!

 

Is it the players not following instructions? I note our press was half hearted. Is this the players fault. You can’t do a half press as we seen it just leaves players in space to pass too and defeats the purpose. Not the first time we’ve pressed with 70% of team executing the press. 
 

I think on the lead up to the game it was clear to all that Rangers were weak and teams that got up in their face took points from them in the league. Why did we not go with that up and at them plan. I genuinely think we would have won if we had taken the game to them instead of giving them half an hour to get in their stride.

 

On another note why do we always make Cantwell look good he’s absolutely gash but we sit off him and let him stroll about and spray passes like he is Messi.

 

Is this all down to Managers thinking  we can keep it tight and nick a goal. A tactic that rarely pays off for us. 

 

 

Spot on

[Pasquale for King]

12 minutes ago, JayTeeJnr said:

There were a few occasions where we closed Rangers down in a pack and won the ball but more often Rangers had time to pick a pass to a teammate in midfield who was in acres of space. By the time the Hearts player got to them, the ball had already gone.

 

Either the tactics aren’t clear to our players or they’re not prepared to put in the effort to implement them.

 

In contrast when our players received the ball, they were immediately under pressure. Sadly our forward players were very poor at shielding the ball too.

Absolutely, they were there to be exploited 

[leginten]

7 minutes ago, dannymack said:

 

Club mentality, superstition, hoodoo's, monkeys ???? Who knows ? 

 

1961 League Cup Final

1976 Cup Final

1977 Cup Semi Final

1982 League Cup SF

1988 League Cup SF

1993 Cup SF

1996 Cup Final

1996 League Cup Final

1998 Cup Final *

2003 League Cup SF

2008 League Cup SF

2019 League Cup SF

2022 Cup Final 

2023 League Cup SF

2024 Cup Final

 

*Winners 

 

The 1976 final was absolutely grim. Did they not score before 3pm that day? Mind you, we were a particularly poor team that year. I remember spending most of the afternoon looking at the hail of bottles above me and wondering when one was going to land on my head.

[jock _turd]

1 minute ago, leginten said:

 

The 1976 final was absolutely grim. Did they not score before 3pm that day? Mind you, we were a particularly poor team that year. I remember spending most of the afternoon looking at the hail of bottles above me and wondering when one was going to land on my head.

 

Remember it well. You can say what you want about game kickoff times, no drinking and all seated stadia but there is no doubt that the changes have greatly improved the match day experience😂  What went on that day was nothing short of disgusting there were some animals in Hampden that day . I was in my early twenties then and I was shocked. Just imagine being 70 years old and having to put up not only with the way fans behaved but the state of that ground! It was a shithole of the highest order a total disgrace and people say it is a shithole today?  F'kn Taj Mahal compared to then😂

[No Idle Talk]

Having had some time to digest yesterday's events, I still feel pretty deflated. Some of what Steven Naismith said after the game was certainly valid. We did do some good things and we did create more chances than we did in the previous semi-final against Rangers(that is a very low bar to be fair). And we were most certainly 'immature'(I could think of more colourful words) in the final third. 

 

My own analysis is somewhat harsher than that. I think we failed at multiple levels yesterday. I think the manager failed by not setting the midfield up properly. John Lundstram had his usual game against us, wandering around the field in oceans of space doing whatever he wanted. Todd Cantwell drifted in behind Beni and Devlin all afternoon and picked up the ball between our midfield and our back four. It caused us all sorts of problems. It was never rectified at any point.

 

Defensively I thought we did ok in general. But both goals we conceded were soft. Stephen Kingsley and Kye Rowles were both culpable for the first goal. For the second goal we had three players surrounding Todd Cantwell but not one of them thought tackling him might be a good idea. Poor stuff. It's ok defending well for most of the match but if you give away two cheap goals you can't call it a good day defensively.

 

Up front we were abysmal. The decision making left so much to be desired. Alan Forrest has tonnes of heart but lacks quality. Kenneth Vargas was brutal. Like in many other games this season, Lawrence Shankland was starved of service and started coming deep just to try and get involved in the game. I doubt that was the gameplan. 

 

All in all it was disappointing. The next time we play Rangers, if anyone should see me on here saying things like 'this is our turn', just tell me to stop. From now on I am just going to expect defeat against them and if somehow we manage to beat them it will come as a beautiful, glorious surprise to me.

[leginten]

18 minutes ago, jock _turd said:

 

Remember it well. You can say what you want about game kickoff times, no drinking and all seated stadia but there is no doubt that the changes have greatly improved the match day experience😂  What went on that day was nothing short of disgusting there were some animals in Hampden that day . I was in my early twenties then and I was shocked. Just imagine being 70 years old and having to put up not only with the way fans behaved but the state of that ground! It was a shithole of the highest order a total disgrace and people say it is a shithole today?  F'kn Taj Mahal compared to then😂

It was pretty terrible. No segregation, and what seemed to me a pretty small Hearts support was sandwiched between two sections of Rangers fans on the east terracing. You’re absolutely right about conditions at matches now compared to back then. A far safer experience. I’m amazed more people weren’t seriously hurt that day. Hampden was an accident waiting to happen. I think that same year I was at the opposite end of the ground when Dalglish put the ball through Clemence’s legs; the utter pandemonium was scary.

[Gambo]

Some fans are easily pleased. Part of the problem.

[JayTeeJnr]

A difference between our current team and past successful Hearts sides is that there aren’t any obvious future stars and only Gordon, that has previously played at a higher level but, due to age, is now at Hearts.

 

The 1998 team had Cameron, McCann, Weir and Naysmith who all went on to greater success. Bruno, Rousset and Salvatore had already played at big teams.

 

In 2006 we had Gordon, Bednar, Fysass, Jankauskas, Berra and Skacel who either had played at a higher level or left for significant transfer fees. Pressley and Hartley were in the same bracket.

 

Those players wouldn’t turn ‘rabbit in the headlights’ just because they were playing Rangers/Celtic or a known European team. 
 

More recently, Lafferty always appeared to relish the big games and scored some crackers in them. Hickey was superb aged 16 in the 2019 final. 

 

Other than Shankland (though not yesterday) I don’t see anyone in our current side who regularly steps up when the pressure’s on.

[PortyBeach]

2 minutes ago, JayTeeJnr said:

A difference between our current team and past successful Hearts sides is that there aren’t any obvious future stars and only Gordon, that has previously played at a higher level but, due to age, is now at Hearts.

 

The 1998 team had Cameron, McCann, Weir and Naysmith who all went on to greater success. Bruno, Rousset and Salvatore had already played at big teams.

 

In 2006 we had Gordon, Bednar, Fysass, Jankauskas, Berra and Skacel who either had played at a higher level or left for significant transfer fees. Pressley and Hartley were in the same bracket.

 

Those players wouldn’t turn ‘rabbit in the headlights’ just because they were playing Rangers/Celtic or a known European team. 
 

More recently, Lafferty always appeared to relish the big games and scored some crackers in them. Hickey was superb aged 16 in the 2019 final. 

 

Other than Shankland (though not yesterday) I don’t see anyone in our current side who regularly steps up when the pressure’s on.

 

[kingantti1874]

8 minutes ago, Gambo said:

Some fans are easily pleased. Part of the problem.

and some have really stupid expectations, and fail to understand where hearts really are in the grand scheme of football. 
 

the club I feel are somewhere in the middle.  Where they should be 

[dannymack]

6 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

and some have really stupid expectations, and fail to understand where hearts really are in the grand scheme of football. 
 

the club I feel are somewhere in the middle.  Where they should be 

👏👏👏👏👏👏

[jock _turd]

26 minutes ago, leginten said:

It was pretty terrible. No segregation, and what seemed to me a pretty small Hearts support was sandwiched between two sections of Rangers fans on the east terracing. You’re absolutely right about conditions at matches now compared to back then. A far safer experience. I’m amazed more people weren’t seriously hurt that day. Hampden was an accident waiting to happen. I think that same year I was at the opposite end of the ground when Dalglish put the ball through Clemence’s legs; the utter pandemonium was scary.

 

That day on the way into the ground on of the sliding doors/ gates was knocked of its rails god knows howmany people roared through before they got is under control😂

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 hour ago, leginten said:

 

The 1976 final was absolutely grim. Did they not score before 3pm that day? Mind you, we were a particularly poor team that year. I remember spending most of the afternoon looking at the hail of bottles above me and wondering when one was going to land on my head.

That day was brutal. 

[Dennis Law]

Disagree with the heading however it’s the worst old firm sides for years and the rest of Scottish football can’t lay a glove on them  finishing above either of them in the league or by getting  to a Scottish cup final in place of them. Shows how rank Scottish football is. It’s becoming boring and in the absence of any manager outside the old firm having the balls or ability to beat them the game here is a laughing stock outside Scotland.

[Benny Klack]

22 minutes ago, Gambo said:

Some fans are easily pleased. Part of the problem.

So we have had yesterday being the manager’s fault, the players fault and now the fans are having to take some blame too? 🤣🤣🤣

 

How does that work?

 

What can supporters do to turn round this problem? Supporters will continue to turn out in numbers in hope that they will see a successful team. 
 

Tell me where the fans are going wrong?

[JayTeeJnr]

50 minutes ago, No Idle Talk said:

Having had some time to digest yesterday's events, I still feel pretty deflated. Some of what Steven Naismith said after the game was certainly valid. We did do some good things and we did create more chances than we did in the previous semi-final against Rangers(that is a very low bar to be fair). And we were most certainly 'immature'(I could think of more colourful words) in the final third. 

 

My own analysis is somewhat harsher than that. I think we failed at multiple levels yesterday. I think the manager failed by not setting the midfield up properly. John Lundstram had his usual game against us, wandering around the field in oceans of space doing whatever he wanted. Todd Cantwell drifted in behind Beni and Devlin all afternoon and picked up the ball between our midfield and our back four. It caused us all sorts of problems. It was never rectified at any point.

 

Defensively I thought we did ok in general. But both goals we conceded were soft. Stephen Kingsley and Kye Rowles were both culpable for the first goal. For the second goal we had three players surrounding Todd Cantwell but not one of them thought tackling him might be a good idea. Poor stuff. It's ok defending well for most of the match but if you give away two cheap goals you can't call it a good day defensively.

 

Up front we were abysmal. The decision making left so much to be desired. Alan Forrest has tonnes of heart but lacks quality. Kenneth Vargas was brutal. Like in many other games this season, Lawrence Shankland was starved of service and started coming deep just to try and get involved in the game. I doubt that was the gameplan. 

 

All in all it was disappointing. The next time we play Rangers, if anyone should see me on here saying things like 'this is our turn', just tell me to stop. From now on I am just going to expect defeat against them and if somehow we manage to beat them it will come as a beautiful, glorious surprise to me.

Very good post and your analysis of the game is spot on.

[Bazzas right boot]

2 hours ago, boag1874 said:

Exactly what I've been saying to OF supporting mates for quite a while. People categorise them together because they're the two best teams but in reality they both ask different questions of us that need different answers.

 

Rangers are definitely a more physically imposing side than Celtic, no question about it, in terms of both pace & power. Been that way since the Gerrard days & it's why they compete better than Celtic in Europe.

 

Agree with general point, but Rangers don't compete better than celtic in Europe. 

Celtic just compete,  or don't at a higher level.

 

When both teams were in the ucl- both were shite. That is a fair comparison, both were in at the same level- look at the results then.

 

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

15 minutes ago, Benny Klack said:

So we have had yesterday being the manager’s fault, the players fault and now the fans are having to take some blame too? 🤣🤣🤣

 

How does that work?

 

What can supporters do to turn round this problem? Supporters will continue to turn out in numbers in hope that they will see a successful team. 
 

Tell me where the fans are going wrong?

 

Fans that support, stay rational and look forward positively are the problem.

 

Slagging our own, calling them shite, argueing with other fans and generally being  in a rage is clearly the best way to help the team.

[Psychedelicropcircle]

We should have 3rd wrapped up by the last league game against sevco making it a throw away game in which I’d like to see us have a real go at them. 

[McCrae]

3 hours ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

We’ve been in transformation for years.

Yep and we are just halfway through that journey.

[thecarnbeejambo]

is anyone surprised by the result or the performance..different managers, different players over the years, same outcome, so who is to blame. i am at a loss to understand why. if we had had the same backroom staff for years maybe we could point the finger at them. apart from '98. we simply have failed time and again... i know it will be pointed out about their spending.power, however guts and effort can make up for so much. it seems its the lack of guts and effort that disappoints us the most...

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, No Idle Talk said:

Having had some time to digest yesterday's events, I still feel pretty deflated. Some of what Steven Naismith said after the game was certainly valid. We did do some good things and we did create more chances than we did in the previous semi-final against Rangers(that is a very low bar to be fair). And we were most certainly 'immature'(I could think of more colourful words) in the final third. 

 

My own analysis is somewhat harsher than that. I think we failed at multiple levels yesterday. I think the manager failed by not setting the midfield up properly. John Lundstram had his usual game against us, wandering around the field in oceans of space doing whatever he wanted. Todd Cantwell drifted in behind Beni and Devlin all afternoon and picked up the ball between our midfield and our back four. It caused us all sorts of problems. It was never rectified at any point.

 

Defensively I thought we did ok in general. But both goals we conceded were soft. Stephen Kingsley and Kye Rowles were both culpable for the first goal. For the second goal we had three players surrounding Todd Cantwell but not one of them thought tackling him might be a good idea. Poor stuff. It's ok defending well for most of the match but if you give away two cheap goals you can't call it a good day defensively.

 

Up front we were abysmal. The decision making left so much to be desired. Alan Forrest has tonnes of heart but lacks quality. Kenneth Vargas was brutal. Like in many other games this season, Lawrence Shankland was starved of service and started coming deep just to try and get involved in the game. I doubt that was the gameplan. 

 

All in all it was disappointing. The next time we play Rangers, if anyone should see me on here saying things like 'this is our turn', just tell me to stop. From now on I am just going to expect defeat against them and if somehow we manage to beat them it will come as a beautiful, glorious surprise to me.

Great post

[Skacelsid]

59 minutes ago, JayTeeJnr said:

A difference between our current team and past successful Hearts sides is that there aren’t any obvious future stars and only Gordon, that has previously played at a higher level but, due to age, is now at Hearts.

 

The 1998 team had Cameron, McCann, Weir and Naysmith who all went on to greater success. Bruno, Rousset and Salvatore had already played at big teams.

 

In 2006 we had Gordon, Bednar, Fysass, Jankauskas, Berra and Skacel who either had played at a higher level or left for significant transfer fees. Pressley and Hartley were in the same bracket.

 

Those players wouldn’t turn ‘rabbit in the headlights’ just because they were playing Rangers/Celtic or a known European team. 
 

More recently, Lafferty always appeared to relish the big games and scored some crackers in them. Hickey was superb aged 16 in the 2019 final. 

 

Other than Shankland (though not yesterday) I don’t see anyone in our current side who regularly steps up when the pressure’s on.

Good points JTJ, we really don't have players of the calibre of those you mentioned who relished the big stage. Thankfully though we have those memories.

[alicante jambo]

1 hour ago, No Idle Talk said:

Having had some time to digest yesterday's events, I still feel pretty deflated. Some of what Steven Naismith said after the game was certainly valid. We did do some good things and we did create more chances than we did in the previous semi-final against Rangers(that is a very low bar to be fair). And we were most certainly 'immature'(I could think of more colourful words) in the final third. 

 

My own analysis is somewhat harsher than that. I think we failed at multiple levels yesterday. I think the manager failed by not setting the midfield up properly. John Lundstram had his usual game against us, wandering around the field in oceans of space doing whatever he wanted. Todd Cantwell drifted in behind Beni and Devlin all afternoon and picked up the ball between our midfield and our back four. It caused us all sorts of problems. It was never rectified at any point.

 

Defensively I thought we did ok in general. But both goals we conceded were soft. Stephen Kingsley and Kye Rowles were both culpable for the first goal. For the second goal we had three players surrounding Todd Cantwell but not one of them thought tackling him might be a good idea. Poor stuff. It's ok defending well for most of the match but if you give away two cheap goals you can't call it a good day defensively.

 

Up front we were abysmal. The decision making left so much to be desired. Alan Forrest has tonnes of heart but lacks quality. Kenneth Vargas was brutal. Like in many other games this season, Lawrence Shankland was starved of service and started coming deep just to try and get involved in the game. I doubt that was the gameplan. 

 

All in all it was disappointing. The next time we play Rangers, if anyone should see me on here saying things like 'this is our turn', just tell me to stop. From now on I am just going to expect defeat against them and if somehow we manage to beat them it will come as a beautiful, glorious surprise to me.

Cracking post btw.

[Benny Klack]

39 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

Fans that support, stay rational and look forward positively are the problem.

 

Slagging our own, calling them shite, argueing with other fans and generally being  in a rage is clearly the best way to help the team.

👏

 

 

Next time we lose a cup semi final can the mods just shut Kickback down for 24 hours till some folks just calm the feck down.

 

There have been some truly wild takes on here since yesterday. 

[GinRummy]

43 minutes ago, McCrae said:

Yep and we are just halfway through that journey.

Not two third through or a quarter or an eighth. Definitely bang at the halfway point. When did it start?

[Pasquale for King]

5 hours ago, Thomaso said:

Didn’t say they did - they do however disprove the OP’s rant that we did not have a shot on target.

Fair enough 👍🏽

[Pasquale for King]

5 hours ago, bobskeldon said:

Simply trying to avoid buffoons, seems like I failed!

Must try harder 😜

[Luckies1874]

4 hours ago, boag1874 said:

Exactly what I've been saying to OF supporting mates for quite a while. People categorise them together because they're the two best teams but in reality they both ask different questions of us that need different answers.

 

Rangers are definitely a more physically imposing side than Celtic, no question about it, in terms of both pace & power. Been that way since the Gerrard days & it's why they compete better than Celtic in Europe.

 

 

They have competed better than Celtic in Europe because they have played in the Europa League which is levels down from the Champions League. That is the only reason! When they played in the Champions League 2 seasons ago they had one of the worst records in the history of the tournament!!! 

 

Played 6 

Lost 6

Goals for 2

Goals against 22

 

Edited April 22 by Luckies1874

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 hour ago, McCrae said:

Yep and we are just halfway through that journey.

We’ll all be dead time the journey ends.

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 hour ago, Benny Klack said:

👏

 

 

Next time we lose a cup semi final can the mods just shut Kickback down for 24 hours till some folks just calm the feck down.

 

There have been some truly wild takes on here since yesterday. 

[soonbe110]

2 hours ago, No Idle Talk said:

Having had some time to digest yesterday's events, I still feel pretty deflated. Some of what Steven Naismith said after the game was certainly valid. We did do some good things and we did create more chances than we did in the previous semi-final against Rangers(that is a very low bar to be fair). And we were most certainly 'immature'(I could think of more colourful words) in the final third. 

 

My own analysis is somewhat harsher than that. I think we failed at multiple levels yesterday. I think the manager failed by not setting the midfield up properly. John Lundstram had his usual game against us, wandering around the field in oceans of space doing whatever he wanted. Todd Cantwell drifted in behind Beni and Devlin all afternoon and picked up the ball between our midfield and our back four. It caused us all sorts of problems. It was never rectified at any point.

 

Defensively I thought we did ok in general. But both goals we conceded were soft. Stephen Kingsley and Kye Rowles were both culpable for the first goal. For the second goal we had three players surrounding Todd Cantwell but not one of them thought tackling him might be a good idea. Poor stuff. It's ok defending well for most of the match but if you give away two cheap goals you can't call it a good day defensively.

 

Up front we were abysmal. The decision making left so much to be desired. Alan Forrest has tonnes of heart but lacks quality. Kenneth Vargas was brutal. Like in many other games this season, Lawrence Shankland was starved of service and started coming deep just to try and get involved in the game. I doubt that was the gameplan. 

 

All in all it was disappointing. The next time we play Rangers, if anyone should see me on here saying things like 'this is our turn', just tell me to stop. From now on I am just going to expect defeat against them and if somehow we manage to beat them it will come as a beautiful, glorious surprise to me.

Good post and I largely agree with it. 
Forret was as culpable as anyone at first goal. If he doesn’t go to ground the move doesn’t play out the way it did. First rule when defending is stay on your feet. 
Cantwell was given free space and runs all afternoon. None of Naismith, Beni, Devlin were smart enough to spot it. 
Decison making up front really cost us. Several decent chances that petered out because the final ball was wrong or the pass wasn’t made. Sportscene highlighted two or three excellent chances that should have ended in a goal. Shankland was as bad as Vargas yesterday. A real off day for him. Maybe trying too hard to impress. 

[soonbe110]

27 minutes ago, Luckies1874 said:

 

 

They have competed better than Celtic in Europe because they have played in the Europa League which is levels down from the Champions League. That is the only reason! When they played in the Champions League 2 seasons ago they had one of the worst records in the history of the tournament!!! 

 

Played 6 

Lost 6

Goals for 2

Goals against 22

 

At the time I believe it was the worst record in group stage in the competitions history. Saw seven of the goals against in a pub in Florence - great night before the fun night. 

Edited April 22 by soonbe110

[jr ewing]

1 hour ago, thecarnbeejambo said:

is anyone surprised by the result or the performance..different managers, different players over the years, same outcome, so who is to blame. i am at a loss to understand why. if we had had the same backroom staff for years maybe we could point the finger at them. apart from '98. we simply have failed time and again... i know it will be pointed out about their spending.power, however guts and effort can make up for so much. it seems its the lack of guts and effort that disappoints us the most...

3 in midfield against our 2 is simply naive tactically. Win the midfield, win the game. 

[kingantti1874]

4 minutes ago, jr ewing said:

3 in midfield against our 2 is simply naive tactically. Win the midfield, win the game. 

I’ve read this multiple times.  We had 3 in midfield.  Devlin, Beni and Grant.  It’s just that Grant didn’t do the job required. 

[Pasquale for King]

10 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Good post and I largely agree with it. 
Forret was as culpable as anyone at first goal. If he doesn’t go to ground the move doesn’t play out the way it did. First rule when defending is stay on your feet. 
Cantwell was given free space and runs all afternoon. None of Naismith, Beni, Devlin were smart enough to spot it. 
Decison making up front really cost us. Several decent chances that petered out because the final ball was wrong or the pass wasn’t made. Sportscene highlighted two or three excellent chances that should have ended in a goal. Shankland was as bad as Vargas yesterday. A real off day for him. Maybe trying too hard to impress. 

Spot on 👍🏽

[soonbe110]

Just now, Pasquale for King said:

Spot on 👍🏽

Twice in one day😂😂👍

[jr ewing]

14 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

I’ve read this multiple times.  We had 3 in midfield.  Devlin, Beni and Grant.  It’s just that Grant didn’t do the job required. 

Then he should have been hooked.